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Why believe in Christianity?

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/24/2011 9:09:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've always held the position that there is the possibility of the existence of a higher power, but the Bible's and Christianity's interpretation of this possibility is far too erroneous.

FACT: The Bible has inconsistencies
FACT: The Bible has immoralities
FACT: The Bible was written by human beings who probably wrote it under influence of the moral understanding of the time.

Upon all of this, why would anyone believe in Christianity?, well popular Christianity anyway. Is it because they're scared to NOT believe in it? Is it because they want something to cling to, to give life meaning, even if it doesn't entirely make sense? Why believe in something that is so BLATANTLY illogical?

If the lord gave us this world and made it ruled by logic, why would this concept then be so illogical?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/24/2011 9:21:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree with you, for once.

Although, when my religious friends say I'm going to hell for being an ag atheist, I like to think that, if there was an all powerful god, he wouldn't judge me based on my belief in him: merely how "moral," I lived my life. Who knows: he may even respect the fact that I'm an atheist out of honesty.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
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9/24/2011 9:25:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:21:43 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree with you, for once.

Although, when my religious friends say I'm going to hell for being an ag atheist, I like to think that, if there was an all powerful god, he wouldn't judge me based on my belief in him: merely how "moral," I lived my life. Who knows: he may even respect the fact that I'm an atheist out of honesty.

Thats just it...what about the people who never even heard of Christianity, do they go to hell? That sounds rather immoral. I'd like a Christian to chime in here and better explain what I may not be understanding. I mean, they aren't idiots, they must see SOME logic in this belief,...either that, or they are deliberately muting, ignoring, and falsely justifying things because their childhood upbringings are to powerful to deviate from.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/24/2011 9:30:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:25:56 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:21:43 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree with you, for once.

Although, when my religious friends say I'm going to hell for being an ag atheist, I like to think that, if there was an all powerful god, he wouldn't judge me based on my belief in him: merely how "moral," I lived my life. Who knows: he may even respect the fact that I'm an atheist out of honesty.

Thats just it...what about the people who never even heard of Christianity, do they go to hell? That sounds rather immoral. I'd like a Christian to chime in here and better explain what I may not be understanding. I mean, they aren't idiots, they must see SOME logic in this belief,...either that, or they are deliberately muting, ignoring, and falsely justifying things because their childhood upbringings are to powerful to deviate from.

I think it's largely the latter--childhood indoctrination.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
kohai
Posts: 380
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9/24/2011 9:32:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:25:56 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:21:43 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree with you, for once.

Although, when my religious friends say I'm going to hell for being an ag atheist, I like to think that, if there was an all powerful god, he wouldn't judge me based on my belief in him: merely how "moral," I lived my life. Who knows: he may even respect the fact that I'm an atheist out of honesty.

Thats just it...what about the people who never even heard of Christianity, do they go to hell? That sounds rather immoral. I'd like a Christian to chime in here and better explain what I may not be understanding. I mean, they aren't idiots, they must see SOME logic in this belief,...either that, or they are deliberately muting, ignoring, and falsely justifying things because their childhood upbringings are to powerful to deviate from.

(Devil's advocate, Jewish perspective)

God has given us the Noahic laws...those are only 7 laws needed to be followed. Hell is not eternal, but a place of spiritual purging.
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:09:42 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've always held the position that there is the possibility of the existence of a higher power, but the Bible's and Christianity's interpretation of this possibility is far too erroneous.

FACT: The Bible has inconsistencies
FACT: The Bible has immoralities
FACT: The Bible was written by human beings who probably wrote it under influence of the moral understanding of the time.

Upon all of this, why would anyone believe in Christianity?, well popular Christianity anyway. Is it because they're scared to NOT believe in it? Is it because they want something to cling to, to give life meaning, even if it doesn't entirely make sense? Why believe in something that is so BLATANTLY illogical?

If the lord gave us this world and made it ruled by logic, why would this concept then be so illogical?

Even if All three where indeed Facts (and I am by no means consenting they are) why would that invalidate Christianity.
- If there are inconsistencies they would have to be theological ones. You do not know Christian theology to make those distinctions. Most Christian theologians do not find any inconsistencies.

- As to immoralities even if there are immoralities are you suggesting God is immoral? We see even Peter God's apostle was wrong but easily many could have stated Christianity was wrong because Peter was the representative at the time.
If it is God's commanding of the death of children do you claim to know that it did not perform a greater good to eliminate the children? Do you know the Christian Theological teaching that, God and Satan are at war and that the are both bound by rules and restrictions on how they can act in history and in the lives of the others "people/children".

- The bible agrees that it was written by people and that it is a human record of the interactions with God. How is this an issue for the veracity of Christian claims as God is ever present in the Church?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/24/2011 9:36:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God and Satan are at war

Is this the origin of war? Are you saying that war is moral?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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9/24/2011 9:37:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why not all your reasons are very false.
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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/24/2011 9:37:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:32:11 PM, kohai wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:25:56 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:21:43 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree with you, for once.

Although, when my religious friends say I'm going to hell for being an ag atheist, I like to think that, if there was an all powerful god, he wouldn't judge me based on my belief in him: merely how "moral," I lived my life. Who knows: he may even respect the fact that I'm an atheist out of honesty.

Thats just it...what about the people who never even heard of Christianity, do they go to hell? That sounds rather immoral. I'd like a Christian to chime in here and better explain what I may not be understanding. I mean, they aren't idiots, they must see SOME logic in this belief,...either that, or they are deliberately muting, ignoring, and falsely justifying things because their childhood upbringings are to powerful to deviate from.

(Devil's advocate, Jewish perspective)

God has given us the Noahic laws...those are only 7 laws needed to be followed. Hell is not eternal, but a place of spiritual purging.

No. Hell is eternal. Purgatory is the place of spiritual purging.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
kohai
Posts: 380
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9/24/2011 9:38:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:36:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God and Satan are at war

Is this the origin of war? Are you saying that war is moral?

Satan (more accurately "Advesary") is an angel of god. Rather than being at war with god, he is an agent of his.
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/24/2011 9:41:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:36:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God and Satan are at war

Is this the origin of war? Are you saying that war is moral?

The angelic conflict is the first war. In the realm of immortals it is more like court case.
Biblical theology states that Satan wanted to hold the office of God. He claimed God was unjust, not merciful, patient, loving or moral.
God created earth for Satan to rule over.
Satan is the god of this world.
God is limited in dealing with the people of this world unless they become God's children. Then he is no longer limited.
This world is all about God proving He is "good" and Satan as "bad".
and Satan is trying to prove he is better than God.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/24/2011 9:48:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:41:26 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:36:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God and Satan are at war

Is this the origin of war? Are you saying that war is moral?

The angelic conflict is the first war. In the realm of immortals it is more like court case.
Biblical theology states that Satan wanted to hold the office of God. He claimed God was unjust, not merciful, patient, loving or moral.
God created earth for Satan to rule over.
Satan is the god of this world.
God is limited in dealing with the people of this world unless they become God's children. Then he is no longer limited.
This world is all about God proving He is "good" and Satan as "bad".
and Satan is trying to prove he is better than God.

Assuming this is true, explain to me how all this nonsense reached human understanding. If there was a connection between the transcendental world, and the conscious world, then it would be observable and intertwined with logic. Taking any notion of the Bible proves its illogicality.

Explain to me how walking on water is logical.
Explain to me how separating a sea is possible.
Explain to me how reanimating the dead without use of electricity is possible.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/24/2011 9:55:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:48:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:41:26 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:36:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God and Satan are at war

Is this the origin of war? Are you saying that war is moral?

The angelic conflict is the first war. In the realm of immortals it is more like court case.
Biblical theology states that Satan wanted to hold the office of God. He claimed God was unjust, not merciful, patient, loving or moral.
God created earth for Satan to rule over.
Satan is the god of this world.
God is limited in dealing with the people of this world unless they become God's children. Then he is no longer limited.
This world is all about God proving He is "good" and Satan as "bad".
and Satan is trying to prove he is better than God.

Assuming this is true, explain to me how all this nonsense reached human understanding. If there was a connection between the transcendental world, and the conscious world, then it would be observable and intertwined with logic. Taking any notion of the Bible proves its illogicality.

Explain to me how walking on water is logical.
Explain to me how separating a sea is possible.
Explain to me how reanimating the dead without use of electricity is possible.

As a mathematician I could even scientifically show you how these things are duplicatable if you are a supernatural being but you are asking about logical...

- IF God created the laws of nature and spoke all of matter into existence then this would be no problem to walk on water.

- Again God - Laws of Nature- all matter being spoken into existence - no problem seperating water.

- Jesus got a new body and not a the old one. This was a fourth dimensional body his soul and diety were placed into.
(Lazarus would be an example of recessitation. Our old mortal bodies that are long dead will not be reanimated like the several day dead ones. We will all get new ones.)

So in essence for you these things are impossible, but with God things these are as easy as breathing is to us.
CrimsonTokala
Posts: 61
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9/25/2011 6:00:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
: At 9/24/2011 9:09:42 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've always held the position that there is the possibility of the existence of a higher power, but the Bible's and Christianity's interpretation of this possibility is far too erroneous.

FACT: The Bible has inconsistencies
FACT: The Bible has immoralities
FACT: The Bible was written by human beings who probably wrote it under influence of the moral understanding of the time.

Upon all of this, why would anyone believe in Christianity?, well popular Christianity anyway. Is it because they're scared to NOT believe in it? Is it because they want something to cling to, to give life meaning, even if it doesn't entirely make sense? Why believe in something that is so BLATANTLY illogical?

If the lord gave us this world and made it ruled by logic, why would this concept then be so illogical?


I may sound like an idiot when I ask this, but could you please explain what you mean by popular Christianity?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2011 6:03:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:21:43 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree with you, for once.

Although, when my religious friends say I'm going to hell for being an ag atheist, I like to think that, if there was an all powerful god, he wouldn't judge me based on my belief in him: merely how "moral," I lived my life. Who knows: he may even respect the fact that I'm an atheist out of honesty.

Why would he judge you on morality? Why would he judge you at all?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2011 6:04:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:41:26 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:36:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God and Satan are at war

Is this the origin of war? Are you saying that war is moral?

The angelic conflict is the first war. In the realm of immortals it is more like court case.
Biblical theology states that Satan wanted to hold the office of God. He claimed God was unjust, not merciful, patient, loving or moral.
God created earth for Satan to rule over.
Satan is the god of this world.
God is limited in dealing with the people of this world unless they become God's children. Then he is no longer limited.
This world is all about God proving He is "good" and Satan as "bad".
and Satan is trying to prove he is better than God.

Are you a Gnostic?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/25/2011 6:10:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:04:56 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:41:26 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:36:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God and Satan are at war

Is this the origin of war? Are you saying that war is moral?

The angelic conflict is the first war. In the realm of immortals it is more like court case.
Biblical theology states that Satan wanted to hold the office of God. He claimed God was unjust, not merciful, patient, loving or moral.
God created earth for Satan to rule over.
Satan is the god of this world.
God is limited in dealing with the people of this world unless they become God's children. Then he is no longer limited.
This world is all about God proving He is "good" and Satan as "bad".
and Satan is trying to prove he is better than God.

Are you a Gnostic?

Not at all, I am an Anglican/Methodist and this is mainstream Christian theology. As an athiest you will not get into the Angelic Conflict because it will be more about if God exists not the "why are we here?" question.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2011 6:15:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:10:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:04:56 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:41:26 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:36:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:34:13 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God and Satan are at war

Is this the origin of war? Are you saying that war is moral?

The angelic conflict is the first war. In the realm of immortals it is more like court case.
Biblical theology states that Satan wanted to hold the office of God. He claimed God was unjust, not merciful, patient, loving or moral.
God created earth for Satan to rule over.
Satan is the god of this world.
God is limited in dealing with the people of this world unless they become God's children. Then he is no longer limited.
This world is all about God proving He is "good" and Satan as "bad".
and Satan is trying to prove he is better than God.

Are you a Gnostic?

Not at all, I am an Anglican/Methodist and this is mainstream Christian theology. As an athiest you will not get into the Angelic Conflict because it will be more about if God exists not the "why are we here?" question.

I am willing to entertain any theological discussion.

In any case, if God granted earth to the Devil who was in charge of say the Great Flood?

This is why I ask if you are a Gnostic, many of the Gnostic sects though they brought their own idiosyncracies into the equation rather sensible opined that the God of the Bible, the old testament anyway was the Demiurge, Satan. A view that at least allows Christianity to start making sense.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Jon1
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9/25/2011 6:18:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:09:42 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've always held the position that there is the possibility of the existence of a higher power, but the Bible's and Christianity's interpretation of this possibility is far too erroneous.

FACT: The Bible has inconsistencies

Eh, inconsistent? That's not true. There may be some contradictions but the messages are always clear and the same.

FACT: The Bible has immoralities

It's a book about sinners, what do you expect?

FACT: The Bible was written by human beings who probably wrote it under influence of the moral understanding of the time.

Morality hasn't changed, it seems the bible-writers had grasped ethics quite well. After all, they're followed even now, in the modern days.


Upon all of this, why would anyone believe in Christianity?, well popular Christianity anyway. Is it because they're scared to NOT believe in it? Is it because they want something to cling to, to give life meaning, even if it doesn't entirely make sense? Why believe in something that is so BLATANTLY illogical?

How can you be scared of something that is "blatantly illogical"?


If the lord gave us this world and made it ruled by logic, why would this concept then be so illogical?

It could be that your logic is askew.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/28/2011 5:05:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:09:42 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've always held the position that there is the possibility of the existence of a higher power, but the Bible's and Christianity's interpretation of this possibility is far too erroneous.

FACT: The Bible has inconsistencies
FACT: The Bible has immoralities
FACT: The Bible was written by human beings who probably wrote it under influence of the moral understanding of the time.

Upon all of this, why would anyone believe in Christianity?, well popular Christianity anyway. Is it because they're scared to NOT believe in it? Is it because they want something to cling to, to give life meaning, even if it doesn't entirely make sense? Why believe in something that is so BLATANTLY illogical?

If the lord gave us this world and made it ruled by logic, why would this concept then be so illogical?

I believe in Christianity because Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of the Living God, has personally spoke to me on several occasions..

It is relationship by revelation.
The Cross.. the Cross.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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9/30/2011 1:42:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 5:05:20 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:09:42 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've always held the position that there is the possibility of the existence of a higher power, but the Bible's and Christianity's interpretation of this possibility is far too erroneous.

FACT: The Bible has inconsistencies
FACT: The Bible has immoralities
FACT: The Bible was written by human beings who probably wrote it under influence of the moral understanding of the time.

Upon all of this, why would anyone believe in Christianity?, well popular Christianity anyway. Is it because they're scared to NOT believe in it? Is it because they want something to cling to, to give life meaning, even if it doesn't entirely make sense? Why believe in something that is so BLATANTLY illogical?

If the lord gave us this world and made it ruled by logic, why would this concept then be so illogical?

I believe in Christianity because Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of the Living God, has personally spoke to me on several occasions..

It is relationship by revelation.

you are a pyschopath, who does not take into consideration that if you are hearing voices you might want to seek medical attention asap. You also seem to be completely unaware that many muslims claim allah has spoken to them as well. This phenomenon is far better explained by mental states then actual existence of contradictory gods.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
RaynePenbar
Posts: 4
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10/1/2011 1:29:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:09:42 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've always held the position that there is the possibility of the existence of a higher power, but the Bible's and Christianity's interpretation of this possibility is far too erroneous.

FACT: The Bible has inconsistencies
FACT: The Bible has immoralities
FACT: The Bible was written by human beings who probably wrote it under influence of the moral understanding of the time.

Upon all of this, why would anyone believe in Christianity?, well popular Christianity anyway. Is it because they're scared to NOT believe in it? Is it because they want something to cling to, to give life meaning, even if it doesn't entirely make sense? Why believe in something that is so BLATANTLY illogical?

If the lord gave us this world and made it ruled by logic, why would this concept then be so illogical?

I can see where you come from, and I've seen the version of popular, not only Christianity, but Catholicism more specifically from when I lived in the Bible Belt as a kid. And I have been told by some of the - no offense meant with these next words, seeing as some do take offense to them - misled Catholics that I grew up around that, once I realized Wicca made more sense to me and when I realized I'm bi, I was going to burn in Hell for all of eternity. Of course this irritated me, and still does when they bring it up, but I've noticed that it's only in certain areas or within certain people that they actually believe and follow that bullsh!t. Growing up in a Catholic family, of course I attended church as a kid - not all the time, but a few times - and the church I went to was one of those where the preacher said, "I am telling you this as God tells me, my word is of Him and you must believe and do as God tells you, through me." Even as a kid I knew that, not only that, but the "beliefs" we were being "taught" - lost in epic translation was more like it - through the Catholic Bible just didn't seem right. And if I had continued living around that, I would totally agree with you on this point, but I cannot. Once I moved away from that crazy version of Catholicism and found some Catholics and others from the other Christian branches acting as I did, normally and with respect to others, I realized Christianity isn't full of those crazy arses that were in the Bible Belt. So, I can see why people would believe and follow Christianity and, honestly, I believe it's perfectly fine. You know, as long as they're not like those Catholics I was raised around, or try to force their religion/belief on me.