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Why Judaism is Truth

Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2011 6:02:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

How many? That is a rather far fetched figure. Your version of events contradicts scripture. In addition you have offered us no evidence that this actually occurred.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

Not really no...
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 6:32:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:31:22 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
Ironically, I initially read your username as "Panzer24" so this is a pleasant surprise.

Why is that? Patzer is a chess term.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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9/25/2011 6:34:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

Except that the Bible clearly says only Moses went up on the mountain. And it also says that God told MOSES, not God told the People.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

Um... BFD?
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 6:35:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:34:15 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

Except that the Bible clearly says only Moses went up on the mountain. And it also says that God told MOSES, not God told the People.

If you read before, Ha'Shem DOES speak! When he speaks, the people are frightened and Ha'Shem calls Moses to finish the Torah.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

Um... BFD?
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 6:40:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If you are still skeptical, here is something interesting from the Maimonides

Maimonides writes:

  Israel did not believe in Moses, our teacher, on account of the miracles he performed. For when one's faith is based on miracles, doubt remains in the mind that these miracles may have been done through the occult and witchcraft…

  What then were the grounds of believing him? The revelation on Sinai which we saw with our own eyes, and heard with our own ears, not having to depend on the testimony of others… (Mishna Torah - Foundations of Torah 8:1)
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

I'm not so sure where you got this figure from so do explain.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2011 6:43:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:31:22 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
Ironically, I initially read your username as "Panzer24" so this is a pleasant surprise.

Hehe.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 6:44:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

I'm not so sure where you got this figure from so do explain.

I get this figure from the Torah. This just a rough estimate, but fairly accurate and accepted in Jewish literature.


2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.

Bolded point proves my point that Ha'Shem kept his promise, "Friends will be blessed, and enemies cursed." thanks for re-affirming Torah truth!
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2011 6:47:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:44:33 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

I'm not so sure where you got this figure from so do explain.

I get this figure from the Torah. This just a rough estimate, but fairly accurate and accepted in Jewish literature.


For a nomadic tribe to consist of three million people all gathered in one spot at the foot of a mountain. No.


2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.

Russia, Germany, Christianity, Islam... all are still here.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 6:48:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:47:07 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:44:33 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

I'm not so sure where you got this figure from so do explain.

I get this figure from the Torah. This just a rough estimate, but fairly accurate and accepted in Jewish literature.


For a nomadic tribe to consist of three million people all gathered in one spot at the foot of a mountain. No.

Let's debate this formally.



2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.

Russia, Germany, Christianity, Islam... all are still here.

Russia's communism has failed, as did Geemany's fascism. Both failed. Islam is highly unstable and is reaching breaking point...take a look at revolutions in middle east.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/25/2011 6:49:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:47:07 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:44:33 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.

Russia, Germany, Christianity, Islam... all are still here.

Tsarist Russia isn't, Nazi Germany isn't. As for Islam, it has mostly been specific Islamic civilizations actively trying to wipe out Jews.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2011 6:51:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:48:42 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:47:07 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:44:33 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

I'm not so sure where you got this figure from so do explain.

I get this figure from the Torah. This just a rough estimate, but fairly accurate and accepted in Jewish literature.


For a nomadic tribe to consist of three million people all gathered in one spot at the foot of a mountain. No.

Let's debate this formally.

Okay sure.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.

Russia, Germany, Christianity, Islam... all are still here.

Russia's communism has failed, as did Geemany's fascism. Both failed. Islam is highly unstable and is reaching breaking point...take a look at revolutions in middle east.

Russia was a superpower back in 1811, 1911 and is in 2011. When is Gods judgment descending?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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9/25/2011 6:54:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

I'm not so sure where you got this figure from so do explain.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.

Germans?
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 6:55:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:52:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Btw, it's cool we finally have a theistic jew here. Most of the ones we have here are atheists.

Thanks...sadly Jews are becoming atheists and Christians. I am not orthodox, though I try to fulfill my duties to Ha'Shem.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/25/2011 6:56:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:54:16 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

I'm not so sure where you got this figure from so do explain.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.

Germans?

Nazi Germany is wiped out.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/25/2011 6:57:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:55:12 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:52:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Btw, it's cool we finally have a theistic jew here. Most of the ones we have here are atheists.

Thanks...sadly Jews are becoming atheists and Christians. I am not orthodox, though I try to fulfill my duties to Ha'Shem.

Christians, really? I know about Jews For Jesus, but I thought that was just some Christian scheme to attempt to convert Jews.
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 6:59:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:57:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:55:12 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:52:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Btw, it's cool we finally have a theistic jew here. Most of the ones we have here are atheists.

Thanks...sadly Jews are becoming atheists and Christians. I am not orthodox, though I try to fulfill my duties to Ha'Shem.

Christians, really? I know about Jews For Jesus, but I thought that was just some Christian scheme to attempt to convert Jews.

Yes. Jews are leaving for Christianity at a growing rate. It saddens me
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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9/25/2011 7:01:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:56:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:54:16 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:42:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 5:50:03 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
1 Judaism is the only religion that is based upon a national revelation. 3,000,000 people witnessed G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai. It is impossible to fake such a massive event.

I'm not so sure where you got this figure from so do explain.

2. The Jewish people have survived numerous wars, holocausts, relocations, and persecution; yet we are still a people today--AMAZING. Is that not proof of Hashem's existence?

This is actually something that really sparks my curiousity since it seems every single civilization that has ever tried to wipe out the Jews have been wiped out themselves. Of course atheists will think it's coincidence or something, which is possible, but we can't really know for sure.

Germans?

Nazi Germany is wiped out.

"Nazi Germany" was not a "civilization" by any stretch of the imagination....
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/25/2011 7:02:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 6:59:32 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:57:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:55:12 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:52:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Btw, it's cool we finally have a theistic jew here. Most of the ones we have here are atheists.

Thanks...sadly Jews are becoming atheists and Christians. I am not orthodox, though I try to fulfill my duties to Ha'Shem.

Christians, really? I know about Jews For Jesus, but I thought that was just some Christian scheme to attempt to convert Jews.

Yes. Jews are leaving for Christianity at a growing rate. It saddens me

Well Christians are pretty aggressive with their preaching. That could have alot to do with it.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/25/2011 7:03:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 7:01:18 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:

"Nazi Germany" was not a "civilization" by any stretch of the imagination....

Keep in mind I was using the term "civilization" very loosely there. you're just going all semantical on me. :P
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 7:04:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 7:02:22 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:59:32 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:57:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:55:12 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:52:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Btw, it's cool we finally have a theistic jew here. Most of the ones we have here are atheists.

Thanks...sadly Jews are becoming atheists and Christians. I am not orthodox, though I try to fulfill my duties to Ha'Shem.

Christians, really? I know about Jews For Jesus, but I thought that was just some Christian scheme to attempt to convert Jews.

Yes. Jews are leaving for Christianity at a growing rate. It saddens me

Well Christians are pretty aggressive with their preaching. That could have alot to do with it.

Correct. And it does sadden me. Christianity is idolatry.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/25/2011 7:05:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 7:04:30 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 7:02:22 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:59:32 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:57:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:55:12 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:52:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Btw, it's cool we finally have a theistic jew here. Most of the ones we have here are atheists.

Thanks...sadly Jews are becoming atheists and Christians. I am not orthodox, though I try to fulfill my duties to Ha'Shem.

Christians, really? I know about Jews For Jesus, but I thought that was just some Christian scheme to attempt to convert Jews.

Yes. Jews are leaving for Christianity at a growing rate. It saddens me

Well Christians are pretty aggressive with their preaching. That could have alot to do with it.

Correct. And it does sadden me. Christianity is idolatry.

I definitely agree. I'm quite hostile towards Christianity myself.
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 7:07:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 7:05:37 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 7:04:30 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 7:02:22 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:59:32 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:57:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:55:12 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:52:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Btw, it's cool we finally have a theistic jew here. Most of the ones we have here are atheists.

Thanks...sadly Jews are becoming atheists and Christians. I am not orthodox, though I try to fulfill my duties to Ha'Shem.

Christians, really? I know about Jews For Jesus, but I thought that was just some Christian scheme to attempt to convert Jews.

Yes. Jews are leaving for Christianity at a growing rate. It saddens me

Well Christians are pretty aggressive with their preaching. That could have alot to do with it.

Correct. And it does sadden me. Christianity is idolatry.

I definitely agree. I'm quite hostile towards Christianity myself.

Their doctrine of hell is what bothers me the most. Ha'Shem is so loving. There is no such thong as hell. "Hell" in the Jewish sense of the word, is just a place of purgatory. In fact, the maximum stay is 11 months. (Talmud)
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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9/25/2011 7:12:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 7:03:26 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 7:01:18 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:

"Nazi Germany" was not a "civilization" by any stretch of the imagination....

Keep in mind I was using the term "civilization" very loosely there. you're just going all semantical on me. :P

Not really - just pointing out that the original statement isn't correct at all... I mean - just also take, for example the Palestinians... they are currently trying.
Patzer24
Posts: 21
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9/25/2011 7:12:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 7:07:07 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 7:05:37 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 7:04:30 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 7:02:22 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:59:32 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:57:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:55:12 PM, Patzer24 wrote:
At 9/25/2011 6:52:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Btw, it's cool we finally have a theistic jew here. Most of the ones we have here are atheists.

Thanks...sadly Jews are becoming atheists and Christians. I am not orthodox, though I try to fulfill my duties to Ha'Shem.

Christians, really? I know about Jews For Jesus, but I thought that was just some Christian scheme to attempt to convert Jews.

Yes. Jews are leaving for Christianity at a growing rate. It saddens me

Well Christians are pretty aggressive with their preaching. That could have alot to do with it.

Correct. And it does sadden me. Christianity is idolatry.

I definitely agree. I'm quite hostile towards Christianity myself.

Their doctrine of hell is what bothers me the most. Ha'Shem is so loving. There is no such thong as hell. "Hell" in the Jewish sense of the word, is just a place of purgatory. In fact, the maximum stay is 11 months. (Talmud)

The incarnation, idolatry, trinity, and other blasphemies are other things that bug me