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God gave up the right to punish along with do

GreatestIam
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9/25/2011 7:43:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
God gave up the right to punish along with dominion.

God, in Eden, gave man dominion over the whole earth and all the entities on it.

Some also believe that Satan was given dominion here. If the temptation of Jesus is believed to have literally happened then this supports the notion that Satan has dominion or the temptation was a farce that Jesus would have seen through. He did not deny Satan's dominion.

If God gave dominion to man and it was somehow transferred to Satan, then God would have giving up any right that he would have to punish anyone here because he does no longer had dominion here.

As above so below indicates that if he can punish us and basically usurp the sovereignty of Satan or man, then this policy is what man should follow. This says that some other country coming to enforce their laws in our countries, would be allowed and proper. I cannot see any country allowing this and if they cannot, then God also cannot.

God is shown quite often as coming to earth and enforcing his laws. Sodom and the genocide in Noah's day are prime examples of his doing so.

My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of my lips.
—Psalm 89:34

Who has dominion on earth?
Does God have a right to enforce his law?
If so, why?
If not, then is he breaking his own word?

Regards
DL
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/25/2011 8:54:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
God has universal dominion. Satan has temporal and specific dominion.
God can supercede according to His Will.

You may wish to study these theological points a bit before posting something like this.

I encourage a full study of the Angelica discourse and court case. I can reccomend some good starting sites.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/25/2011 8:56:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 8:54:17 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God has universal dominion. Satan has temporal and specific dominion.
God can supercede according to His Will.

You may wish to study these theological points a bit before posting something like this.

I encourage a full study of the Angelica discourse and court case. I can reccomend some good starting sites.

Don't suppress your logical capacity to believe in things you know deep down, in honesty, don't make sense.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/25/2011 8:57:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 8:56:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 8:54:17 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God has universal dominion. Satan has temporal and specific dominion.
God can supercede according to His Will.

You may wish to study these theological points a bit before posting something like this.

I encourage a full study of the Angelica discourse and court case. I can reccomend some good starting sites.

Don't suppress your logical capacity to believe in things you know deep down, in honesty, don't make sense.

Please point out this suppression that you see I am engaging in.
Information can solve any deductive fallacy that has occured.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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9/25/2011 9:14:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 8:56:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 8:54:17 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God has universal dominion. Satan has temporal and specific dominion.
God can supercede according to His Will.

You may wish to study these theological points a bit before posting something like this.

I encourage a full study of the Angelica discourse and court case. I can reccomend some good starting sites.

Don't suppress your logical capacity to believe in things you know deep down, in honesty, don't make sense.

Stop surpressing your sinful nature and just admit God exists. Deep down, you know I'm right.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/26/2011 3:59:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 7:43:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God gave up the right to punish along with dominion.

God, in Eden, gave man dominion over the whole earth and all the entities on it.

Some also believe that Satan was given dominion here. If the temptation of Jesus is believed to have literally happened then this supports the notion that Satan has dominion or the temptation was a farce that Jesus would have seen through. He did not deny Satan's dominion.

If God gave dominion to man and it was somehow transferred to Satan, then God would have giving up any right that he would have to punish anyone here because he does no longer had dominion here.

As above so below indicates that if he can punish us and basically usurp the sovereignty of Satan or man, then this policy is what man should follow. This says that some other country coming to enforce their laws in our countries, would be allowed and proper. I cannot see any country allowing this and if they cannot, then God also cannot.

God is shown quite often as coming to earth and enforcing his laws. Sodom and the genocide in Noah's day are prime examples of his doing so.

My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of my lips.
—Psalm 89:34

Who has dominion on earth?
Does God have a right to enforce his law?
If so, why?
If not, then is he breaking his own word?

Regards
DL

You continuously make good points against Christianity and the bible. I agree with you. I have almost all but given up trying to help people understand their errors in those beliefs. They are far too brainwashed to listen and nobody can force someone else to think or believe a certain way. These people will have to learn these things on their own or die in ignorance. I don't see anything wrong with it until they start pushing their views on me and telling me I will go to hell and a number of other things. People telling me those things is what originally made me feel the need to show them the error of their mentality. I have found that it is close to impossible and is a waste of my energy for the most part. Let them think what they want, just don't go pushing it on me or judging me in a negative way for my own beliefs. Let me be and I'll let you be. That's my new motto.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/26/2011 4:55:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 7:43:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God gave up the right to punish along with dominion.

God, in Eden, gave man dominion over the whole earth and all the entities on it.

Some also believe that Satan was given dominion here. If the temptation of Jesus is believed to have literally happened then this supports the notion that Satan has dominion or the temptation was a farce that Jesus would have seen through. He did not deny Satan's dominion.

If God gave dominion to man and it was somehow transferred to Satan, then God would have giving up any right that he would have to punish anyone here because he does no longer had dominion here.

As above so below indicates that if he can punish us and basically usurp the sovereignty of Satan or man, then this policy is what man should follow. This says that some other country coming to enforce their laws in our countries, would be allowed and proper. I cannot see any country allowing this and if they cannot, then God also cannot.

God is shown quite often as coming to earth and enforcing his laws. Sodom and the genocide in Noah's day are prime examples of his doing so.

My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of my lips.
—Psalm 89:34

Who has dominion on earth?
Does God have a right to enforce his law?
If so, why?
If not, then is he breaking his own word?

Regards
DL

God gave dominion to Adam, Adam gave it to satan when he took his word over God's.

Satan has dominion over everything BUT God's Word, which is why he had to get Adam to deny God's explicit instructions.. and WHY satan has no dominion over Jesus Christ, because He is the 'Word become flesh'..

God made certain promises to Adam and Eve after the fall; that Word they cherished and passed along to each succeeding generation until Noah, who also received promises and then Abraham and so on right on to Jesus Christ.

This is why the Bible is so precious to us Christians; it is the Word of God and satan cannot come against it.

Faith is not to believe in God, but to believe God.

*These are good questions.. now try to progress to the next level and be ready to actually debate them without feeling like it's a personal attack on your integrity etc.
The Cross.. the Cross.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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9/26/2011 9:56:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 8:54:17 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God has universal dominion. Satan has temporal and specific dominion.
God can supercede according to His Will.

You may wish to study these theological points a bit before posting something like this.

I encourage a full study of the Angelica discourse and court case. I can reccomend some good starting sites.

My studies are over for now thanks. Now I teach. That is the best way to learn a topic.

So to you, God can go against scriptures and break his word then?
Scriptures say we are to emulate him. That would mean that we too can morally break our word. Right?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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9/26/2011 9:59:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 9:14:09 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/25/2011 8:56:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 8:54:17 PM, Gileandos wrote:
God has universal dominion. Satan has temporal and specific dominion.
God can supercede according to His Will.

You may wish to study these theological points a bit before posting something like this.

I encourage a full study of the Angelica discourse and court case. I can reccomend some good starting sites.

Don't suppress your logical capacity to believe in things you know deep down, in honesty, don't make sense.

Stop surpressing your sinful nature and just admit God exists. Deep down, you know I'm right.

You may be right but only if fantasy, miracles and magic are all real.
Looks like you have taken your leaders word to heart though.

Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.
Martin Luther

Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Martin Luther

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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9/26/2011 10:09:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/26/2011 3:59:33 AM, Tiel wrote:
At 9/25/2011 7:43:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God gave up the right to punish along with dominion.

God, in Eden, gave man dominion over the whole earth and all the entities on it.

Some also believe that Satan was given dominion here. If the temptation of Jesus is believed to have literally happened then this supports the notion that Satan has dominion or the temptation was a farce that Jesus would have seen through. He did not deny Satan's dominion.

If God gave dominion to man and it was somehow transferred to Satan, then God would have giving up any right that he would have to punish anyone here because he does no longer had dominion here.

As above so below indicates that if he can punish us and basically usurp the sovereignty of Satan or man, then this policy is what man should follow. This says that some other country coming to enforce their laws in our countries, would be allowed and proper. I cannot see any country allowing this and if they cannot, then God also cannot.

God is shown quite often as coming to earth and enforcing his laws. Sodom and the genocide in Noah's day are prime examples of his doing so.

My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of my lips.
—Psalm 89:34

Who has dominion on earth?
Does God have a right to enforce his law?
If so, why?
If not, then is he breaking his own word?

Regards
DL

You continuously make good points against Christianity and the bible. I agree with you. I have almost all but given up trying to help people understand their errors in those beliefs. They are far too brainwashed to listen and nobody can force someone else to think or believe a certain way. These people will have to learn these things on their own or die in ignorance. I don't see anything wrong with it until they start pushing their views on me and telling me I will go to hell and a number of other things. People telling me those things is what originally made me feel the need to show them the error of their mentality. I have found that it is close to impossible and is a waste of my energy for the most part. Let them think what they want, just don't go pushing it on me or judging me in a negative way for my own beliefs. Let me be and I'll let you be. That's my new motto.

Ouch. The mind you save by not letting fools be, may be your children's or grandchildren's.

I hear you but would remind you that logic and common sense my get past the one you are engaging but it is the lurkers that are my target. They are the soft and medium believers who follow tradition and not God.
Think of the butterfly effect. We are effective.

You also have to remember that whatever the belief, even yours and mine, to change our minds is a painful act. It means swallowing the fact that we were wrong in the first place.
Theists with their beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic, have a harder time than you or I in doing so.
We have to continue correcting because, for the evils of religion to grow, all good men need do is nothing.
We owe it to our species to correct foolish thinking.
Duty is a bitch but it must be followed.
Girdle your loins my friend. You are not alone in fighting.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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9/26/2011 10:26:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/26/2011 4:55:50 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

God gave dominion to Adam, Adam gave it to satan when he took his word over God's.


Taking someones words does not equate to giving up dominion.Show what words that Adam used in giving Satan dominion.
If you cannot, then you have added to scripture and your WORD tells you not to do this.


Satan has dominion over everything BUT God's Word, which is why he had to get Adam to deny God's explicit instructions..

Adam did not deny God's instructions. He just ignored instructions that no sane person would follow.
Man naturally seeks knowledge of all kinds and to deny himself the moral sense that the knowledge of the tree of knowledge gives, would have kept him as dumb as the beasts of the fields.
That is why the Jews, the authors and main group to look to for interpreting that particular myth, saw Eden as man's elevation and not his fall.

Explain if you can what exactly is wrong with man elevating himself to, as God said, Gods.


and WHY satan has no dominion over Jesus Christ, because He is the 'Word become flesh'..


Strange that man was given dominion of all things on the earth yet you say except Jesus. Again, without any words of scripture to back up your addition to scripture.
You should stop making stuff up if you ever want to debate me.


God made certain promises to Adam and Eve after the fall; that Word they cherished and passed along to each succeeding generation until Noah, who also received promises and then Abraham and so on right on to Jesus Christ.

This is why the Bible is so precious to us Christians; it is the Word of God and satan cannot come against it.

Faith is not to believe in God, but to believe God.

*These are good questions.. now try to progress to the next level and be ready to actually debate them without feeling like it's a personal attack on your integrity etc.

If so, then why did you not speak to them instead of your annoying preaching.

If Satan has dominion here as you say, then is God breaking his word by giving man command and punishment?

Regards
DL
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/27/2011 5:56:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/26/2011 10:26:21 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/26/2011 4:55:50 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

God gave dominion to Adam, Adam gave it to satan when he took his word over God's.


Taking someones words does not equate to giving up dominion.Show what words that Adam used in giving Satan dominion.
If you cannot, then you have added to scripture and your WORD tells you not to do this.


Taking someones word certainly DOES give them dominion over you; if you understand someone then you stand under them.. this is how elections are fought and won; by gaining superiority over others with words.

A child takes his parents words and instructions NOT the next door neibours etc.. However, when the child is at school, dominion has been passed to the teachers in loco parentis..

Satan has dominion over everything BUT God's Word, which is why he had to get Adam to deny God's explicit instructions..

Adam did not deny God's instructions. He just ignored instructions that no sane person would follow.
Man naturally seeks knowledge of all kinds and to deny himself the moral sense that the knowledge of the tree of knowledge gives, would have kept him as dumb as the beasts of the fields.
That is why the Jews, the authors and main group to look to for interpreting that particular myth, saw Eden as man's elevation and not his fall.

Explain if you can what exactly is wrong with man elevating himself to, as God said, Gods.


Adam certainly DID deny/willfully disobey God's explicit instructions, to say otherwise is to be criminally ignorant of Scipture or willfully deceptive, I'll be kind and assume the latter!

Can you give me a direct quote on this idea that Jews see the Garden of Eden as man's elevation? Because from the Bible the Pharisees, even in Christ's time, knew man to be fallen and cursed:

John 9:34
To this they replied, "You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!" And they threw him out.


and WHY satan has no dominion over Jesus Christ, because He is the 'Word become flesh'..


Strange that man was given dominion of all things on the earth yet you say except Jesus. Again, without any words of scripture to back up your addition to scripture.
You should stop making stuff up if you ever want to debate me.


Jesus is not from this world:

John 8:23
But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.


God made certain promises to Adam and Eve after the fall; that Word theycherished and passed along to each succeeding generation until Noah, who also received promises and then Abraham and so on right on to Jesus Christ.

This is why the Bible is so precious to us Christians; it is the Word of God and satan cannot come against it.

Faith is not to believe in God, but to believe God.

*These are good questions.. now try to progress to the next level and be ready to actually debate them without feeling like it's a personal attack on your integrity etc.

If so, then why did you not speak to them instead of your annoying preaching.

The annoyance is a subjective weakness of your own which the world calls 'sour grapes' and which I will endeavour to give you grace upon..

If Satan has dominion here as you say, then is God breaking his word by giving man command and punishment?

Regards
DL


Satan no longer has dominion over those parts of my life that are under Jesus and His teachings.. The Kingdom of God (which satan has NO dominion over) is WHEREVER GOD IS KING! so, if He is king of my finances, satan has no domion over them.. etc etc..

There is Sin and then there are sins:

Sin is to disbelieve Who God is; His infinite mercy, love, wisdom and forgiveness.. this is the original sin that separates us from God..

sins come as a result of Sin.

Jesus' ministry essentially dealt with sins.

The cross of Christ dealt with Sin: here we see God's goodness, love and mercy.. and here and ONLY here is the power of satan broken; HERE he is defeated:

John 16:11
and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
The Cross.. the Cross.
GreatestIam
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9/27/2011 11:17:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I will repeat what I just told you elsewhere. All you are interested in is preaching and abusing on the personal level so----

Bite me.

Have the good manners at least to ignore me. I will do the same.

Regards
DL
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/28/2011 4:47:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 11:17:26 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
I will repeat what I just told you elsewhere. All you are interested in is preaching and abusing on the personal level so----

Bite me.

Have the good manners at least to ignore me. I will do the same.

Regards
DL

It is YOU that uses this forum to preach, NOT I..

I am simply responding (and will CONTINUE to do so) to the theologically inept and shallow tripe you have the audacity to call argument..

I will continue to expose your utter lack of understanding of the most fundamental Christian doctrines..

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.


Also, see my sig. for what a policy of ignoring really reveals!
The Cross.. the Cross.