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Religion and the Super Ego

nonentity
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9/27/2011 6:09:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Something interesting my professor brought up in class after watching the movie Chocolat that I wanted to share with DDO---the super ego is the most cruel and viscious aspect of our personality.

In terms of religion and the movie, people do horrible things in order to protect what they think is "morally right", and this is more 'evil', so to speak, than the id's need to satiate our primal desires.

Thoughts?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/27/2011 6:12:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:09:18 PM, nonentity wrote:
Something interesting my professor brought up in class after watching the movie Chocolat that I wanted to share with DDO---the super ego is the most cruel and viscious aspect of our personality.

In terms of religion and the movie, people do horrible things in order to protect what they think is "morally right", and this is more 'evil', so to speak, than the id's need to satiate our primal desires.

Thoughts?

Yes the pedophile and murder are very offended that we who oppress them continue to do so in the name of morality.
We are horrible to lock them into little cells 22 hours a day.
To seclude them from society.

Those religious evil people should allow little children to be raped at someone else whim...
That was was first came to my mind...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/27/2011 6:15:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:09:18 PM, nonentity wrote:
Something interesting my professor brought up in class after watching the movie Chocolat that I wanted to share with DDO---the super ego is the most cruel and viscious aspect of our personality.

In terms of religion and the movie, people do horrible things in order to protect what they think is "morally right", and this is more 'evil', so to speak, than the id's need to satiate our primal desires.

Thoughts?

Is the "super ego" related to the super devil?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/27/2011 6:16:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:09:18 PM, nonentity wrote:
Something interesting my professor brought up in class after watching the movie Chocolat that I wanted to share with DDO---the super ego is the most cruel and viscious aspect of our personality.

In terms of religion and the movie, people do horrible things in order to protect what they think is "morally right", and this is more 'evil', so to speak, than the id's need to satiate our primal desires.

Thoughts?

What is morally right is to not interfere in other people affairs unless they ask you to. To each his own, until force is used against another. No matter how someone justifies using force against someone else, it is not morally right unless that attacked or threatened you first. This basic moral law. Just because someone has an ego which says otherwise, it doesn't change the reality of morality. Of course, you don't have to take my word for it. My word is not objective, it is subjective and just as relative as any other persons. Though, I think that the majority would subjectively agree with this basic law of morality.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
nonentity
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9/27/2011 6:17:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:12:17 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:09:18 PM, nonentity wrote:
Something interesting my professor brought up in class after watching the movie Chocolat that I wanted to share with DDO---the super ego is the most cruel and viscious aspect of our personality.

In terms of religion and the movie, people do horrible things in order to protect what they think is "morally right", and this is more 'evil', so to speak, than the id's need to satiate our primal desires.

Thoughts?

Yes the pedophile and murder are very offended that we who oppress them continue to do so in the name of morality.
We are horrible to lock them into little cells 22 hours a day.
To seclude them from society.

Those religious evil people should allow little children to be raped at someone else whim...
That was was first came to my mind...

Is that worse than the people who are willing to murder in the name of God? The hypocrisy is kind of amazing.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/27/2011 6:18:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In terms of religion and the movie, people do horrible things in order to protect what they think is "morally right", and this is more 'evil', so to speak, than the id's need to satiate our primal desires.:

It certainly can be, if you ask my personal opinion. The problem is that it's subjective. Any multitude of crimes under religious pretenses certainly seem to qualify to me, but who ultimately decides? What's good to you may not be good to me, and vice versa. But the illustration is simple enough, and for the most part I agree.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/27/2011 6:20:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yes the pedophile and murder are very offended that we who oppress them continue to do so in the name of morality.
We are horrible to lock them into little cells 22 hours a day.
To seclude them from society.

Those religious evil people should allow little children to be raped at someone else whim...
That was was first came to my mind...:

Yeah, cuz then it would sound way too much like the Old Testament.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
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9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:17:19 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:12:17 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:09:18 PM, nonentity wrote:
Something interesting my professor brought up in class after watching the movie Chocolat that I wanted to share with DDO---the super ego is the most cruel and viscious aspect of our personality.

In terms of religion and the movie, people do horrible things in order to protect what they think is "morally right", and this is more 'evil', so to speak, than the id's need to satiate our primal desires.

Thoughts?

Yes the pedophile and murder are very offended that we who oppress them continue to do so in the name of morality.
We are horrible to lock them into little cells 22 hours a day.
To seclude them from society.

Those religious evil people should allow little children to be raped at someone else whim...
That was was first came to my mind...

Is that worse than the people who are willing to murder in the name of God? The hypocrisy is kind of amazing.

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/27/2011 6:22:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:20:04 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Yes the pedophile and murder are very offended that we who oppress them continue to do so in the name of morality.
We are horrible to lock them into little cells 22 hours a day.
To seclude them from society.

Those religious evil people should allow little children to be raped at someone else whim...
That was was first came to my mind...:

Yeah, cuz then it would sound way too much like the Old Testament.

Or any time before the 18th century really.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
nonentity
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9/27/2011 6:23:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
For those who have not seen Chocolat, http://en.wikipedia.org.... The event in question is when the Mayor gets someone to light boats on fire in an attempt to suppress the people he perceives as threatening to his town's morality, despite the fact that people would be killed. It flies in the face of "thou shalt not kill" and supposed Catholic teachings.

I'm sure someone else can come up with real life examples.
nonentity
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9/27/2011 6:25:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?

Christianity is not the only religion. And there are still Christians who work very hard to suppress human rights and oppress others, which one could subjectively call 'evil'.
Gileandos
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9/27/2011 7:19:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:17:19 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:12:17 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:09:18 PM, nonentity wrote:
Something interesting my professor brought up in class after watching the movie Chocolat that I wanted to share with DDO---the super ego is the most cruel and viscious aspect of our personality.

In terms of religion and the movie, people do horrible things in order to protect what they think is "morally right", and this is more 'evil', so to speak, than the id's need to satiate our primal desires.

Thoughts?

Yes the pedophile and murder are very offended that we who oppress them continue to do so in the name of morality.
We are horrible to lock them into little cells 22 hours a day.
To seclude them from society.

Those religious evil people should allow little children to be raped at someone else whim...
That was was first came to my mind...

Is that worse than the people who are willing to murder in the name of God? The hypocrisy is kind of amazing.

I nearly bit myself when I read this. You did not just call me a hypocrite while being a hypocrite.

I noticed you did not state that the pedophile nor the murderer were morally right to do what they did.
You make a moral judgement against them.

So you are complaining about religious people making moral judgements when you yourself are more than willing to make moral judgements against pedophiles and murderers...
then you call me a hypocrite?
What world do you live in exactly?

You realize that the only people who complain about moral abuse is the person who is morally wrong.
NAMBLA complains all day long that they have an athiestic right to violate little children. It is not murder to kill pedophiles and murderers. It is justice.
Gileandos
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9/27/2011 7:23:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:25:05 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?

Christianity is not the only religion. And there are still Christians who work very hard to suppress human rights and oppress others, which one could subjectively call 'evil'.

If you are a member of NAMBLA I do work very hard to suppress your "subjective" human right to rape little children.

I will continue to supress your right. You can complain all day long about Christians morally suppressing your right to rape children but who are you to force your moral values on me?
You complain that I am forcing my moral code on you, yet you are in turn forcing your version of a moral code on me? If I do force my moral code on you are you going to try and stop me? That is you just forcing your moral code on me.

Mine just happens to be a religious one and yours happens to be a self satisfying one?
What gives you the higher moral ground?
Gileandos
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9/27/2011 7:25:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:23:06 PM, nonentity wrote:
For those who have not seen Chocolat, http://en.wikipedia.org.... The event in question is when the Mayor gets someone to light boats on fire in an attempt to suppress the people he perceives as threatening to his town's morality, despite the fact that people would be killed. It flies in the face of "thou shalt not kill" and supposed Catholic teachings.

I'm sure someone else can come up with real life examples.

The commandment is "thou shalt not murder."
He is not violating a moral command of God to kill bad people.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/27/2011 7:32:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:25:05 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?

Christianity is not the only religion. And there are still Christians who work very hard to suppress human rights and oppress others, which one could subjectively call 'evil'.

I agree. Also, Christians stopped killing in the name of God because they started losing power around that same time. Their power and influence has been declining ever since. The numbers you may see that show such a high number of Christianity are the results of Christianity's successful efforts of wiping out other cultures and converting the people who were left in the wake. Then the oil industry came along and exploded the population out of control. It just so happens that many of the people involved with this explosion were indeed followers of the bible or offspring of those who were. Modern times have changed the amount of people being killed in general due to the "age of enlightenment" or "the age of reason". This was a grand step for human civilization as it taught waves of people to use logic and reason above blind obedience. Now we live in an "age of information" where people have all sorts of information at their disposals to devour, while applying that same logic and reason which is more common in the modern world. This "age of information" will spawn an "age of awakening" when the boundaries of science, philosophy, and faith overlap and become fuzzy, while at the same time manifesting a new era of human development. At first their was the development of faith thought (religion), then came philosophical thought (logic and reason), then came scientific observation and experimentation (physical evidence), now we reign in an era where all three will start to connect and overlap in ways not yet determined. This is an exciting time to live in my friends. Bask in the glory and wonder of it all.

This is my perspective.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
nonentity
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9/27/2011 8:08:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Gileandos-- a person who murders out of the id is not a hypocrite. A person who murders out of the super ego is a hypocrite. Don't even get me started on priest pedophiles.
mattrodstrom
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9/27/2011 8:12:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 7:23:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:25:05 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?

Christianity is not the only religion. And there are still Christians who work very hard to suppress human rights and oppress others, which one could subjectively call 'evil'.

If you are a member of NAMBLA I do work very hard to suppress your "subjective" human right to rape little children.

As would I and I'm not a believer in any objective morality.

I will continue to supress your right. You can complain all day long about Christians morally suppressing your right to rape children but who are you to force your moral values on me?

I enforce things according to my values as I deem fit.. If they agree with Common feeling.. I might have a good bit of help too!

You complain that I am forcing my moral code on you, yet you are in turn forcing your version of a moral code on me? If I do force my moral code on you are you going to try and stop me? That is you just forcing your moral code on me.

Indeed! and I'll Oppose child molesters NOT b/c they "sin" against God but b/c I would Not have them do what they would do!


Mine just happens to be a religious one and yours happens to be a self satisfying one?
What gives you the higher moral ground?

Higher "moral" ground?

perhaps that there's reason for my enforcing what I enforce? As opposed to Jumping to things without reason (like there being no reason for you Not fulfilling Your wants and instead trying to fulfill what god supposedly wants)

Now that's something I have over Your positions and Perhaps I don't have that to lord over a child molester's positions.. But I never said I have to have any "higher" moral ground to enforce what I would. I have MY moral ground to enforce what I would.. I don't care about the child molester's 'rights and wrongs'.. I care to enforce MINE :P
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
nonentity
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9/27/2011 8:12:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And murder and pedophilia are not the only things that arise out of the id that religious people are willing to kill for. Simply a deviation from what they deem is "correct" behaviour is enough.
Gileandos
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9/27/2011 8:55:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 8:12:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 9/27/2011 7:23:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:25:05 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?

Christianity is not the only religion. And there are still Christians who work very hard to suppress human rights and oppress others, which one could subjectively call 'evil'.

If you are a member of NAMBLA I do work very hard to suppress your "subjective" human right to rape little children.

As would I and I'm not a believer in any objective morality.

I will continue to supress your right. You can complain all day long about Christians morally suppressing your right to rape children but who are you to force your moral values on me?

I enforce things according to my values as I deem fit.. If they agree with Common feeling.. I might have a good bit of help too!

You complain that I am forcing my moral code on you, yet you are in turn forcing your version of a moral code on me? If I do force my moral code on you are you going to try and stop me? That is you just forcing your moral code on me.

Indeed! and I'll Oppose child molesters NOT b/c they "sin" against God but b/c I would Not have them do what they would do!


Mine just happens to be a religious one and yours happens to be a self satisfying one?
What gives you the higher moral ground?

Higher "moral" ground?

perhaps that there's reason for my enforcing what I enforce? As opposed to Jumping to things without reason (like there being no reason for you Not fulfilling Your wants and instead trying to fulfill what god supposedly wants)

Now that's something I have over Your positions and Perhaps I don't have that to lord over a child molester's positions.. But I never said I have to have any "higher" moral ground to enforce what I would. I have MY moral ground to enforce what I would.. I don't care about the child molester's 'rights and wrongs'.. I care to enforce MINE :P

We seem to be in agreement.

You have no problem creating your own moral code. We Christians choose to submit to the God given moral code within us. We all, religious and non religious have a moral compass placed inside of us by God.

At least you do not seem to be a hypocrite as Nonentity is. She/he seems to have a problem with me forcing my moral code on bad people and (her) on her but she has no problem forcing hers upon me (and hopefully bad people).
Gileandos
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9/27/2011 9:00:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 8:08:30 PM, nonentity wrote:
Gileandos-- a person who murders out of the id is not a hypocrite. A person who murders out of the super ego is a hypocrite. Don't even get me started on priest pedophiles.

Do explain.
A person who commits a carnal or murder of primal fleshly desires is not a hypocrite and one who commits a murder out of intellect is still a murderer but a hypocrite also?

Either way you are still a hypocrite for forcing your "super ego" moral code on the poor Christians.
You are also forcing your moral code on bad people.
You are also making moral judgments on super ego murderers.
You complain about moral judgements by religious people but make those same moral judgments.

This still does not solve the problem that you are a hypocrite.
Gileandos
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9/27/2011 9:04:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 8:12:40 PM, nonentity wrote:
And murder and pedophilia are not the only things that arise out of the id that religious people are willing to kill for. Simply a deviation from what they deem is "correct" behaviour is enough.

Again you are complaining about the moral judgments of religious people by making a moral judgement.

You are not curing your hypocrisy but seem to be reinforcing it.

I do indeed support the execution of bad people. Child rape and murder would be two key ones. They are deemed to have deviated from what I deem correct.

Explain why what you deem correct is superior to what I deem as correct? Do you like murdering people or raping people? Are you mad that I will persecute you because you are morally deviant?

My super ego and my id are in complete agreement in my persecution of the deviant ones. Who are you to judge me for judging them?

So you are a moral hypocrite and a judgmental hypocrite?
nonentity
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9/28/2011 9:35:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 9:00:51 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 8:08:30 PM, nonentity wrote:
Gileandos-- a person who murders out of the id is not a hypocrite. A person who murders out of the super ego is a hypocrite. Don't even get me started on priest pedophiles.

Do explain.
A person who commits a carnal or murder of primal fleshly desires is not a hypocrite and one who commits a murder out of intellect is still a murderer but a hypocrite also?


A person who commits murder out of the superego usually does it out of the moral code that murder is wrong. Yes, that is the definition of a hypocrite.

Either way you are still a hypocrite for forcing your "super ego" moral code on the poor Christians.
You are also forcing your moral code on bad people.
You are also making moral judgments on super ego murderers.
You complain about moral judgements by religious people but make those same moral judgments.

This still does not solve the problem that you are a hypocrite.

lol I purposefully did not respond to your strawman. Where do you see my moral code?
nonentity
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9/28/2011 9:41:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 9:04:49 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 8:12:40 PM, nonentity wrote:
And murder and pedophilia are not the only things that arise out of the id that religious people are willing to kill for. Simply a deviation from what they deem is "correct" behaviour is enough.

Again you are complaining about the moral judgments of religious people by making a moral judgement.


What moral judgement? If it is in your moral code to not murder, and you condemn things that people do and, in your mind, that justifies murder, that is more cruel than anything else.

Certain religions believe that suppression of the id is the only morally right way. You're using the convenient sample of murderes and pedophiles but there are OTHER PEOPLE out there who are murdered simply because they do not fit into rigid rules, such as people who are branded "adulterers" and then stoned to death. Where is the cruelty in sleeping with a man who is not your husband (whether you are single or not)? How is that more cruel than killing a woman for sleeping with a man who is not her husband?

You are not curing your hypocrisy but seem to be reinforcing it.


lol Again, you are strawmanning me.

I do indeed support the execution of bad people. Child rape and murder would be two key ones. They are deemed to have deviated from what I deem correct.

Explain why what you deem correct is superior to what I deem as correct? Do you like murdering people or raping people? Are you mad that I will persecute you because you are morally deviant?


Your moral code includes that something is wong, yet you do it if you feel justified. Anyone can justify anything. That makes you a hypocrite too. Originally, I had not called you a hypocrite and you strawmanned me. I had called people who murder out of religion hypocrites. But if that is what you believe, then you are a hypocrite also.

My super ego and my id are in complete agreement in my persecution of the deviant ones. Who are you to judge me for judging them?


What moral judgement?

So you are a moral hypocrite and a judgmental hypocrite?

lol
nonentity
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9/28/2011 9:42:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 8:55:04 PM, Gileandos wrote:

At least you do not seem to be a hypocrite as Nonentity is. She/he seems to have a problem with me forcing my moral code on bad people and (her) on her but she has no problem forcing hers upon me (and hopefully bad people).

Please tell me where the ambiguity is in my gender.
nonentity
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9/28/2011 9:51:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:25:05 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?

Christianity is not the only religion. And there are still Christians who work very hard to suppress human rights and oppress others, which one could subjectively call 'evil'.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Beginning after the Civil War, members of the Protestant-led,[61] Ku Klux Klan organization began engaging in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.

They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs on a "religious foundation" in Christianity. [62] The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to, "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," and believe that "Jesus was the first Klansman."[63] Their cross-burnings were conducted not only to intimidate targets, but to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the lighting ritual was steeped in Christian symbolism, including the saying of prayers and singing of Christian hymns. [64] Many modern Klan organizations, such as the Knights Party, USA, continue to focus on the Christian supremacist message, asserting that there is a "war" on to destroy "western Christian civilization." [65]

During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[66][67][68] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[69] A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven."[70][71] The motive for anti-abortionist Scott Roeder murdering Wichita doctor George Tiller on May 31, 2009 was a belief that abortion is criminal and immoral, and that this belief went "hand in hand" with his religious beliefs.[72][73] The Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub, were made by Eric Robert Rudolph; Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist, whereas James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues instead that Rudolph was inspired only in part by religious considerations.[74]

Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group, nine of its members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy to use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.[75] Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, Defensive Action, The Freemen Community, and what Al-Khattar called "the Christian militia that supported Timothy McVeigh", as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".[76] However, some[who?] claim that McVeigh himself was not a Christian, including McVeigh himself.[citation needed]

In a 2005 Congressional hearing about radicalization in U.S. prisons, Sheila Jackson Lee stated that investigators needed to analyze Christian militants in America because they might try to "bring down the country."[77]"
Ore_Ele
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9/28/2011 10:04:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 6:25:05 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?

Christianity is not the only religion. And there are still Christians who work very hard to suppress human rights and oppress others, which one could subjectively call 'evil'.

One can subjectively call anything "evil".
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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9/28/2011 10:10:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/27/2011 8:12:40 PM, nonentity wrote:
And murder and pedophilia are not the only things that arise out of the id that religious people are willing to kill for. Simply a deviation from what they deem is "correct" behaviour is enough.

This is a grossly inaccurate broad brushing statement. Most US christians (who fall under the "religious people" you talk about) view divorce as a deviation from "correct behaviour" yet they don't all go killing because of that. You are taking a tiny minority of religious people and slandering all religious people because of them. That makes you no different than the people that say all Muslims are terrorists, or all Germans are Nazi, or all French surrender the day before war is declared (only most of the French do that).
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Gileandos
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9/28/2011 10:15:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 9:35:38 AM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 9:00:51 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 8:08:30 PM, nonentity wrote:
Gileandos-- a person who murders out of the id is not a hypocrite. A person who murders out of the super ego is a hypocrite. Don't even get me started on priest pedophiles.

Do explain.
A person who commits a carnal or murder of primal fleshly desires is not a hypocrite and one who commits a murder out of intellect is still a murderer but a hypocrite also?


A person who commits murder out of the superego usually does it out of the moral code that murder is wrong. Yes, that is the definition of a hypocrite.

Epic fail at an explanation. Please be more clear.
How does a person who commits murder out of the moral code become a hypocrite?


Either way you are still a hypocrite for forcing your "super ego" moral code on the poor Christians.
You are also forcing your moral code on bad people.
You are also making moral judgments on super ego murderers.
You complain about moral judgements by religious people but make those same moral judgments.

This still does not solve the problem that you are a hypocrite.

lol I purposefully did not respond to your strawman. Where do you see my moral code?

If you claim that a Christian is wrong in any way then you are making a moral judgement. If you claim anyone is wrong in anyway then you are making a moral judgement.
If you claim anything is anything you are making a judgement
Do you know what a moral judgment is?

You are stating that any religious judgement is wrong. You are morally judging people when they make moral judgements.

That is the actual definition of a hypocrite.

You have yet to explain why murdering from a moral code is a hypocrisy. Especially when it is just you defining it as murder, whereas everyone else would agree that killing bad people is a good thing. Execution of murderers is not in itself murder though it is done out of the super ego etc...
Gileandos
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9/28/2011 10:38:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 9:41:47 AM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 9:04:49 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/27/2011 8:12:40 PM, nonentity wrote:
And murder and pedophilia are not the only things that arise out of the id that religious people are willing to kill for. Simply a deviation from what they deem is "correct" behaviour is enough.

Again you are complaining about the moral judgments of religious people by making a moral judgement.


What moral judgement? If it is in your moral code to not murder, and you condemn things that people do and, in your mind, that justifies murder, that is more cruel than anything else.

Certain religions believe that suppression of the id is the only morally right way. You're using the convenient sample of murderes and pedophiles but there are OTHER PEOPLE out there who are murdered simply because they do not fit into rigid rules, such as people who are branded "adulterers" and then stoned to death. Where is the cruelty in sleeping with a man who is not your husband (whether you are single or not)? How is that more cruel than killing a woman for sleeping with a man who is not her husband?

You are not curing your hypocrisy but seem to be reinforcing it.


lol Again, you are strawmanning me.

How do you not understand that you are making a moral judgement against those who are morally judgeing people?

We kill people for betraying their country, its called treason.... how much more people who betray their families?
For millenia betrayal and treason has warranted execution. Who are you to make a moral judgement and call people who execute adulterers, murderers?

That woman has betrayed her family. She betrayed her vow. It is why marriage has vows. We in this country and culture have become lax but I do not in anyway judge a culture who executes such betrayal as murderers.

That is your personal definition.
Ore_Ele
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9/28/2011 10:50:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 9:51:39 AM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:25:05 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 9/27/2011 6:21:34 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

How many modern chistrians in the US have murdered in the name of God?

Christianity is not the only religion. And there are still Christians who work very hard to suppress human rights and oppress others, which one could subjectively call 'evil'.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Beginning after the Civil War, members of the Protestant-led,[61] Ku Klux Klan organization began engaging in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.

They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs on a "religious foundation" in Christianity. [62] The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to, "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," and believe that "Jesus was the first Klansman."[63] Their cross-burnings were conducted not only to intimidate targets, but to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the lighting ritual was steeped in Christian symbolism, including the saying of prayers and singing of Christian hymns. [64] Many modern Klan organizations, such as the Knights Party, USA, continue to focus on the Christian supremacist message, asserting that there is a "war" on to destroy "western Christian civilization." [65]

During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[66][67][68] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[69] A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven."[70][71] The motive for anti-abortionist Scott Roeder murdering Wichita doctor George Tiller on May 31, 2009 was a belief that abortion is criminal and immoral, and that this belief went "hand in hand" with his religious beliefs.[72][73] The Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub, were made by Eric Robert Rudolph; Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist, whereas James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues instead that Rudolph was inspired only in part by religious considerations.[74]

Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group, nine of its members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy to use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.[75] Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, Defensive Action, The Freemen Community, and what Al-Khattar called "the Christian militia that supported Timothy McVeigh", as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".[76] However, some[who?] claim that McVeigh himself was not a Christian, including McVeigh himself.[citation needed]

In a 2005 Congressional hearing about radicalization in U.S. prisons, Sheila Jackson Lee stated that investigators needed to analyze Christian militants in America because they might try to "bring down the country."[77]"

Should we also mention Stalin, Mao, Trotsky, Che, etc?
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