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Something for nothing?

GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory. But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/28/2011 7:11:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory. But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!

Troll line, you know the drill.
___________________________________________________________
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GodSands
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9/28/2011 7:14:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 7:11:10 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory. But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!

Troll line, you know the drill.
___________________________________________________________

Yep, troll or not, call me one, I couldn't care less. At the end of the day, it just shows that it seems that you cannot dig up a come back.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/28/2011 3:20:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory. But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!

I am not sure I understand. Can you restate?
TheLaw
Posts: 70
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9/28/2011 7:48:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If I think I understand what you're saying, GodSands, that sound pretty interesting. But I love all the Atheist trolls that come into religious topics, which is one reason why this site is really messed up.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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9/28/2011 8:17:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible?

I dunno - look in Genesis. Seems to be.

That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing,

Incorrect. The BBT states that the matter was all there, just very compressed... then exploded cause it got too compressed.

or at least that is what I get from the theory.

Well yes, we know that there are many theories you do not understand.

But with that teaching comes a truth,

Oh, you mean like the fact that it confirms virtually everything we know about the origins of the universe?

which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing?

Let me get this straight... because you think that the laws of thermodynamics are wrong, altruism exists? Really?

Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

We have that society in the US - it's called welfare. It's not positive. It perpetuates poverty and self-entitlement.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!

.... sigh.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/29/2011 5:08:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory. But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!

I don't think there's a connection between the BBT and unemployment.. It has more to do with lack of discipline at home and at schools.. also gang and drug cultures are a factor..

Behind it all (including BBT) though, is satan.
The Cross.. the Cross.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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9/30/2011 8:29:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 3:20:10 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory. But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!

I am not sure I understand. Can you restate?

Ok, allow me to be more clear. What I am getting across is fairly simple., basically, the Big Bang implies that everything came from nothing (taking into account of what JCMT said about compressed matter hanging around for an unknown time) which actually reinforces my point further in terms of realism . So there was this compressed matter that exploded billions of years ago. I mean what was compressing the matter anyway, since the matter was everything, what was out side of the matter compressing it - gravity?

Back to the point, as people we know that you cannot do nothing yet gain something, given that the matter doing nothing represented something simply existing, or being a lazy person in bed all day without a job living in a messy house. Then suddenly this matter exploded creating a universe full of glory and wonder and mystery, that boggles even the most intelligent of minds. For me, it simply implies that the teachings of the Big Bang say that we can actually get something for nothing, in that, if the universe was formed from some compressed matter the size of a electron, then us as human being must surely be able to do far better that some compressed universe the size of an electron even if were apart of that compressed matter billions of years ago. Further more,as we being apart of that compressed matter, it says further 'the very matter that you are made up of once exploded into a universe, so that now it is your nature to follow the thing that ultimately created you.' Just like a son we be like his mother and father in personality and appearance due to DNA.

So as the saying would go to round this off, it would say, "Something from nothing, if the universe did it, you ought to do it too!"

But of course we all know that something isn't gained from nothing. It's miraculous otherwise.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/30/2011 8:39:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
See now, I respect the Christians of DDO immensely because they accept that science is the ultimate proof, and then use it to try and validate their belief. Unfortunately, trying to use science or logical sequence of thought to support Christianity is argument suicide.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/30/2011 9:49:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/30/2011 8:39:09 AM, 000ike wrote:
See now, I respect the Christians of DDO immensely because they accept that science is the ultimate proof, and then use it to try and validate their belief. Unfortunately, trying to use science or logical sequence of thought to support Christianity is argument suicide.

What? Science doesn't offer "proof" - much less "ultimate proof" - if you mean proof in the deductive sense. Science is inductive. Perhaps you were using the term "proof" colloquially and you really meant to say that science provides the best and most reliable evidence; however, I don't even accept that. I'm far more sure of (and have better reasons to believe in) many non-scientific beliefs than I am in believing in any proposition inferred from scientific data.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/30/2011 9:53:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 5:08:03 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

Behind it all (including BBT) though, is satan.

Are you aware that the BBT was proposed by a Christian?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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9/30/2011 1:45:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/30/2011 9:53:23 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2011 5:08:03 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

Behind it all (including BBT) though, is satan.

Are you aware that the BBT was proposed by a Christian?

Catholic, Satan, same thing. rite?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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9/30/2011 2:25:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/30/2011 8:29:41 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 9/28/2011 3:20:10 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory. But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!

I am not sure I understand. Can you restate?

Ok, allow me to be more clear. What I am getting across is fairly simple., basically, the Big Bang implies that everything came from nothing (taking into account of what JCMT said about compressed matter hanging around for an unknown time) which actually reinforces my point further in terms of realism . So there was this compressed matter that exploded billions of years ago. I mean what was compressing the matter anyway, since the matter was everything, what was out side of the matter compressing it - gravity?

Lolwut? Gravity is not OUTSIDE an object - it is INSIDE. The matter that exploded had enormous mass, and thus, a huge gravity well holding it together.

Back to the point, as people we know that you cannot do nothing yet gain something, given that the matter doing nothing represented something simply existing, or being a lazy person in bed all day without a job living in a messy house. Then suddenly this matter exploded creating a universe full of glory and wonder and mystery, that boggles even the most intelligent of minds.

Actually, it doesn't - it just boggles minds like yours.

For me, it simply implies that the teachings of the Big Bang say that we can actually get something for nothing, in that, if the universe was formed from some compressed matter the size of a electron,

Obviously it could not have been that small, as matter is made of atoms, which are all bigger than electrons. I don't know where you get these moronic ideas about the BBT.

then us as human being must surely be able to do far better that some compressed universe the size of an electron even if were apart of that compressed matter billions of years ago.

This makes no sense.

Further more,as we being apart of that compressed matter, it says further 'the very matter that you are made up of once exploded into a universe, so that now it is your nature to follow the thing that ultimately created you.' Just like a son we be like his mother and father in personality and appearance due to DNA.

This also makes no sense.

So as the saying would go to round this off, it would say, "Something from nothing, if the universe did it, you ought to do it too!"

But of course we all know that something isn't gained from nothing. It's miraculous otherwise.

You REALLY, REALLY need to take some classes in philosophy and astrophysics.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/30/2011 2:59:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory.

No....According to the Big Bang, the universe was in a hot and condensed state that ultimately cooled as a result of the explosion...Hot and condensed state=/=nothing...

". It postulates that 12 to 14 billion years ago, the portion of the universe we can see today was only a few millimeters across. It has since expanded from this hot dense state into the vast and much cooler cosmos we currently inhabit. We can see remnants of this hot dense matter as the now very cold cosmic microwave background radiation which still pervades the universe and is visible to microwave detectors as a uniform glow across the entire sky."
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov...

With that, the entire thread is negated since it is based on a false presumption...

But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/30/2011 3:06:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/30/2011 9:49:39 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/30/2011 8:39:09 AM, 000ike wrote:
See now, I respect the Christians of DDO immensely because they accept that science is the ultimate proof, and then use it to try and validate their belief. Unfortunately, trying to use science or logical sequence of thought to support Christianity is argument suicide.

What? Science doesn't offer "proof" - much less "ultimate proof" - if you mean proof in the deductive sense. Science is inductive. Perhaps you were using the term "proof" colloquially and you really meant to say that science provides the best and most reliable evidence; however, I don't even accept that. I'm far more sure of (and have better reasons to believe in) many non-scientific beliefs than I am in believing in any proposition inferred from scientific data.

Science is observation. Religion is faith. Proof is by definition confined to what HAPPENS and what WE SEE, the same basis of scientific analysis. If science is not proof, then proof does not exist. You cannot take an objective truth relevant to what is SEEN and reject it, that is irrational. If your argument is that the essential laws of science and its branches do not qualify as proof, then you are mistaken. Science and proof are largely synonymous.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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9/30/2011 3:19:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/30/2011 9:49:39 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
What? Science doesn't offer "proof" - much less "ultimate proof" - if you mean proof in the deductive sense. Science is inductive. Perhaps you were using the term "proof" colloquially and you really meant to say that science provides the best and most reliable evidence; however, I don't even accept that. I'm far more sure of (and have better reasons to believe in) many non-scientific beliefs than I am in believing in any proposition inferred from scientific data.

What beliefs do you have that are better confirmed than anything in science? I assume you're not talking about trivially obvious things like your own thoughts or emotional states, or something personal of that nature. What about external reality can be proved by a non-scientific method, to a higher degree than any scientific conclusion?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/30/2011 4:44:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/30/2011 3:06:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/30/2011 9:49:39 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/30/2011 8:39:09 AM, 000ike wrote:
See now, I respect the Christians of DDO immensely because they accept that science is the ultimate proof, and then use it to try and validate their belief. Unfortunately, trying to use science or logical sequence of thought to support Christianity is argument suicide.

What? Science doesn't offer "proof" - much less "ultimate proof" - if you mean proof in the deductive sense. Science is inductive. Perhaps you were using the term "proof" colloquially and you really meant to say that science provides the best and most reliable evidence; however, I don't even accept that. I'm far more sure of (and have better reasons to believe in) many non-scientific beliefs than I am in believing in any proposition inferred from scientific data.

Science is observation. Religion is faith. Proof is by definition confined to what HAPPENS and what WE SEE, the same basis of scientific analysis.

Lolwut, are you aware that science posits unobservable entities all the time?

If science is not proof, then proof does not exist. You cannot take an objective truth relevant to what is SEEN and reject it, that is irrational. If your argument is that the essential laws of science and its branches do not qualify as proof, then you are mistaken. Science and proof are largely synonymous.

That...wasn't anything close to my argument. I'm asking you how you are using the word proof. Do you just mean evidence by proof?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/30/2011 4:54:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/30/2011 3:19:00 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 9/30/2011 9:49:39 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
What? Science doesn't offer "proof" - much less "ultimate proof" - if you mean proof in the deductive sense. Science is inductive. Perhaps you were using the term "proof" colloquially and you really meant to say that science provides the best and most reliable evidence; however, I don't even accept that. I'm far more sure of (and have better reasons to believe in) many non-scientific beliefs than I am in believing in any proposition inferred from scientific data.

What beliefs do you have that are better confirmed than anything in science? I assume you're not talking about trivially obvious things like your own thoughts or emotional states, or something personal of that nature. What about external reality can be proved by a non-scientific method, to a higher degree than any scientific conclusion?

Most of the truths I take to be necessary. I have better reason to believe (and am far more sure of) that 2 + 3 = 5, or that nothing comes from nothing, than I am of, say, the fact that Andromeda (the galaxy) exists.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/30/2011 5:04:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The fact of the matter is that the Big Bang (or the universe as we know it) had a beginning. That is an observable fact, consistent whether or not you're a theist or an atheist. The Big Bang is a neutral point.

What we don't know, and perhaps cannot definitively know, is what happed prior to Planck's Time, the singularity, t=0 (whatever you want to call it). We don't know what precipitated the events.

From a philosophical point of view, it is highly counterintuitive to assume that there was absolute nothingness prior to the singularity. But either way, there's room to theoretically believe that the BB was caused by God, was created out of another universe collapsing on itself giving birth to a new universe, or even Pink Unicorns.

The point is, NO ONE can say with any empirical certainty. So it's incredibly irresponsible and ignorant for GodSands to insert a God-of-the-Gaps argument that is ultimately as meaningless as believing that everything can come from nothing. It's every bit as conjectural as the universe coming from "nothing."
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
jamesofthecommons
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9/30/2011 7:03:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 6:51:28 AM, GodSands wrote:
It is possible? That's one question that we will not be discussing here, I want to discuss something similar. Of course Big Bang believers believe that everything came from quite literally nothing, or at least that is what I get from the theory. But with that teaching comes a truth, which is, if everything can come from nothing, then surely we as nobodies can get something for nothing? Leading to a society where people are able to do nothing and get something, and in this case that something is positive.

The central thing that inspires the universe to exist from the view of an intelligent mind is, it is very possible to get something from nothing, it couldn't be anymore clear, even the universe works by this very nature - something from nothing!

You my freind are talking about the very basis of freedom !
Please bear with me;as I am at work and must be away from this computer for extended periods of time;but I shall return as soon as possible.