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All men (or women) have religion

Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/28/2011 6:53:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
For a while, I have been thinking about religion. All people seem to have it in one form or another it just depends on what the deity is: God, Atheism, Socialism, Communism. All people seem to stubbornly believe or argue for something in a faith based way. Thoughts?
TheLaw
Posts: 70
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9/28/2011 7:35:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Atheists are going to start flooding this topic about how "Atheism" isn't a deity or whatever. But I will agree with you that everyone does have something they strongly argue for in terms of creation especially. In fact, I also think everyone believes in some sort of deity(s) except for Atheists.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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9/28/2011 7:48:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 6:53:14 PM, Myrant wrote:
For a while, I have been thinking about religion. All people seem to have it in one form or another it just depends on what the deity is: God, Atheism, Socialism, Communism. All people seem to stubbornly believe or argue for something in a faith based way. Thoughts?

Oh no I have two religions!

Christianity and capitalism. :/
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/28/2011 7:50:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 7:35:24 PM, TheLaw wrote:
Atheists are going to start flooding this topic about how "Atheism" isn't a deity or whatever. But I will agree with you that everyone does have something they strongly argue for in terms of creation especially. In fact, I also think everyone believes in some sort of deity(s) except for Atheists.

It seems as though Atheism becomes a deity in of itself - it becomes a faith based science like religion. Atheist seem to worship the science of Atheism.
Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/28/2011 7:55:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 7:48:26 PM, phantom wrote:
At 9/28/2011 6:53:14 PM, Myrant wrote:
For a while, I have been thinking about religion. All people seem to have it in one form or another it just depends on what the deity is: God, Atheism, Socialism, Communism. All people seem to stubbornly believe or argue for something in a faith based way. Thoughts?

Oh no I have two religions!

Christianity and capitalism. :/

I like it!......Polytheism returns - but did it ever leave?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/28/2011 8:10:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 7:50:42 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:35:24 PM, TheLaw wrote:
Atheists are going to start flooding this topic about how "Atheism" isn't a deity or whatever. But I will agree with you that everyone does have something they strongly argue for in terms of creation especially. In fact, I also think everyone believes in some sort of deity(s) except for Atheists.

It seems as though Atheism becomes a deity in of itself - it becomes a faith based science like religion. Atheist seem to worship the science of Atheism.

You do have a point. Many atheists do become just as passionate about their disbelief as theists are about their belief. Same is true for such ideologies such as Marxism. Marxism itself replaces religion and becomes like a religion.
Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/28/2011 8:34:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 8:10:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:50:42 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:35:24 PM, TheLaw wrote:
Atheists are going to start flooding this topic about how "Atheism" isn't a deity or whatever. But I will agree with you that everyone does have something they strongly argue for in terms of creation especially. In fact, I also think everyone believes in some sort of deity(s) except for Atheists.

It seems as though Atheism becomes a deity in of itself - it becomes a faith based science like religion. Atheist seem to worship the science of Atheism.

You do have a point. Many atheists do become just as passionate about their disbelief as theists are about their belief. Same is true for such ideologies such as Marxism. Marxism itself replaces religion and becomes like a religion.

It is interesting. According to Ninian Smart, there are seven dimensions of a religion: 1) Narrative - Darwin? 2) Material - Mother Earth, etc? 3) Ethics - those of moral relativism? 4) Doctrine - Humanist Manifesto? 5) Social - seek to convert people to atheism? 6) Emotional - faith that a deity does not exist? 7) Ritual - commemoration of Darwin's death?

Seems like these apply so it is not unreasonable to classify atheism as a religion. Ironic.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/28/2011 8:52:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 8:34:54 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:10:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:50:42 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:35:24 PM, TheLaw wrote:
Atheists are going to start flooding this topic about how "Atheism" isn't a deity or whatever. But I will agree with you that everyone does have something they strongly argue for in terms of creation especially. In fact, I also think everyone believes in some sort of deity(s) except for Atheists.

It seems as though Atheism becomes a deity in of itself - it becomes a faith based science like religion. Atheist seem to worship the science of Atheism.

You do have a point. Many atheists do become just as passionate about their disbelief as theists are about their belief. Same is true for such ideologies such as Marxism. Marxism itself replaces religion and becomes like a religion.

It is interesting. According to Ninian Smart, there are seven dimensions of a religion: 1) Narrative - Darwin?

Science?

2) Material - Mother Earth, etc?

You're mixing up metaphysical philosophy with religion now.

3) Ethics - those of moral relativism?

I'm not a moral relativist and don't really understand how theists are quick to think atheists are.

4) Doctrine - Humanist Manifesto?

Define doctrine. I have a set of beliefs I think are rational conclusions, is that a religion? Look out, here come those d@mned witnesses trying to convert us to the theory of tectonic plates again!

5) Social - seek to convert people to atheism?

I only do that when I'm debating. Never seen someone from the Church of Atheism walking down a street handing out tracts.

6) Emotional - faith that a deity does not exist?

Logic And reason =\= faith

7) Ritual - commemoration of Darwin's death?

Huh?

Seems like these apply so it is not unreasonable to classify atheism as a religion. Ironic.

Ironic that someone feels the need to assure himself that everyone regardless of belief must have a deity?
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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/28/2011 8:55:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Strange how you all confuse atheism with anti-theism.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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9/28/2011 8:59:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's an easier position to straw man and use an excuse to terrorize atheists.

Many of them became anti-theists for that reason, I'm sure.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/28/2011 9:02:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 8:52:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:34:54 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:10:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:50:42 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:35:24 PM, TheLaw wrote:
Atheists are going to start flooding this topic about how "Atheism" isn't a deity or whatever. But I will agree with you that everyone does have something they strongly argue for in terms of creation especially. In fact, I also think everyone believes in some sort of deity(s) except for Atheists.

It seems as though Atheism becomes a deity in of itself - it becomes a faith based science like religion. Atheist seem to worship the science of Atheism.

You do have a point. Many atheists do become just as passionate about their disbelief as theists are about their belief. Same is true for such ideologies such as Marxism. Marxism itself replaces religion and becomes like a religion.

It is interesting. According to Ninian Smart, there are seven dimensions of a religion: 1) Narrative - Darwin?

Science?

2) Material - Mother Earth, etc?

You're mixing up metaphysical philosophy with religion now.

3) Ethics - those of moral relativism?

I'm not a moral relativist and don't really understand how theists are quick to think atheists are.

4) Doctrine - Humanist Manifesto?

Define doctrine. I have a set of beliefs I think are rational conclusions, is that a religion? Look out, here come those d@mned witnesses trying to convert us to the theory of tectonic plates again!

5) Social - seek to convert people to atheism?

I only do that when I'm debating. Never seen someone from the Church of Atheism walking down a street handing out tracts.

6) Emotional - faith that a deity does not exist?

Logic And reason =\= faith

7) Ritual - commemoration of Darwin's death?

Huh?

Seems like these apply so it is not unreasonable to classify atheism as a religion. Ironic.

Ironic that someone feels the need to assure himself that everyone regardless of belief must have a deity?

Don't have a need to assure anything - I don't really care if someone does or does not have a deity. I just think the parallels are interesting. I will assume you are an Atheist (may be wrong) - apparently this line of reasoning angers you. Correct? Just curious, seems like an Atheist would not care.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/28/2011 9:06:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 9:02:50 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:52:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:34:54 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:10:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:50:42 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:35:24 PM, TheLaw wrote:
Atheists are going to start flooding this topic about how "Atheism" isn't a deity or whatever. But I will agree with you that everyone does have something they strongly argue for in terms of creation especially. In fact, I also think everyone believes in some sort of deity(s) except for Atheists.

It seems as though Atheism becomes a deity in of itself - it becomes a faith based science like religion. Atheist seem to worship the science of Atheism.

You do have a point. Many atheists do become just as passionate about their disbelief as theists are about their belief. Same is true for such ideologies such as Marxism. Marxism itself replaces religion and becomes like a religion.

It is interesting. According to Ninian Smart, there are seven dimensions of a religion: 1) Narrative - Darwin?

Science?

2) Material - Mother Earth, etc?

You're mixing up metaphysical philosophy with religion now.

3) Ethics - those of moral relativism?

I'm not a moral relativist and don't really understand how theists are quick to think atheists are.

4) Doctrine - Humanist Manifesto?

Define doctrine. I have a set of beliefs I think are rational conclusions, is that a religion? Look out, here come those d@mned witnesses trying to convert us to the theory of tectonic plates again!

5) Social - seek to convert people to atheism?

I only do that when I'm debating. Never seen someone from the Church of Atheism walking down a street handing out tracts.

6) Emotional - faith that a deity does not exist?

Logic And reason =\= faith

7) Ritual - commemoration of Darwin's death?

Huh?

Seems like these apply so it is not unreasonable to classify atheism as a religion. Ironic.

Ironic that someone feels the need to assure himself that everyone regardless of belief must have a deity?

Don't have a need to assure anything - I don't really care if someone does or does not have a deity. I just think the parallels are interesting. I will assume you are an Atheist (may be wrong) - apparently this line of reasoning angers you. Correct? Just curious, seems like an Atheist would not care.

Oh, come now, Myrant. Surely you know that there are many different kinds of atheists. Just as there are many different kinds of Christians, Muslims, Jews...
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/28/2011 9:16:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 9:06:33 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/28/2011 9:02:50 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:52:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:34:54 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:10:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:50:42 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 7:35:24 PM, TheLaw wrote:
Atheists are going to start flooding this topic about how "Atheism" isn't a deity or whatever. But I will agree with you that everyone does have something they strongly argue for in terms of creation especially. In fact, I also think everyone believes in some sort of deity(s) except for Atheists.

It seems as though Atheism becomes a deity in of itself - it becomes a faith based science like religion. Atheist seem to worship the science of Atheism.

You do have a point. Many atheists do become just as passionate about their disbelief as theists are about their belief. Same is true for such ideologies such as Marxism. Marxism itself replaces religion and becomes like a religion.

It is interesting. According to Ninian Smart, there are seven dimensions of a religion: 1) Narrative - Darwin?

Science?

2) Material - Mother Earth, etc?

You're mixing up metaphysical philosophy with religion now.

3) Ethics - those of moral relativism?

I'm not a moral relativist and don't really understand how theists are quick to think atheists are.

4) Doctrine - Humanist Manifesto?

Define doctrine. I have a set of beliefs I think are rational conclusions, is that a religion? Look out, here come those d@mned witnesses trying to convert us to the theory of tectonic plates again!

5) Social - seek to convert people to atheism?

I only do that when I'm debating. Never seen someone from the Church of Atheism walking down a street handing out tracts.

6) Emotional - faith that a deity does not exist?

Logic And reason =\= faith

7) Ritual - commemoration of Darwin's death?

Huh?

Seems like these apply so it is not unreasonable to classify atheism as a religion. Ironic.

Ironic that someone feels the need to assure himself that everyone regardless of belief must have a deity?

Don't have a need to assure anything - I don't really care if someone does or does not have a deity. I just think the parallels are interesting. I will assume you are an Atheist (may be wrong) - apparently this line of reasoning angers you. Correct? Just curious, seems like an Atheist would not care.

Oh, come now, Myrant. Surely you know that there are many different kinds of atheists. Just as there are many different kinds of Christians, Muslims, Jews...

Granted. Not accusing, but likewise I am sure there are some atheists that fit the earlier mold. In any case, the discussion was not strictly about Atheists, it was about how the more man runs away from worshipping the old Gods we simply seem to accept new Gods. Seems that the mere suggestion that people worship something touches a nerve. I think that is interesting.

The more things change the more they remain the same (so to speak).
Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/28/2011 9:38:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 8:59:45 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
It's an easier position to straw man and use an excuse to terrorize atheists.

Many of them became anti-theists for that reason, I'm sure.

"terrorize" atheists.....a bit dramatic maybe. In some weird ways, this illustrates my point. Is the thought that a person is associated with something that may be considered a "religion" terrorizing? What was the straw man in this case? Assuming the 7 points, which were refuted. So if he refutes the 7......no straw man then? I'm not inserting another argument, I will grant the counterpoints. The terrorizing thing is fascinating - is it a loss of power over your destiny thing? Why the venom?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/28/2011 10:06:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think the confusion here is that of causing a definition error.
Typically what you are calling religion is more broadly called an ideology.

Social, economic, athiesm and religious thought all are subclassifications under ideology.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/28/2011 10:15:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 9:02:50 PM, Myrant wrote:

Don't have a need to assure anything - I don't really care if someone does or does not have a deity. I just think the parallels are interesting. I will assume you are an Atheist (may be wrong) - apparently this line of reasoning angers you. Correct? Just curious, seems like an Atheist would not care.

Not angry, just slightly annoyed at sweeping generalizations about atheists.
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Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/28/2011 11:43:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Don't have a need to assure anything - I don't really care if someone does or does not have a deity. I just think the parallels are interesting. I will assume you are an Atheist (may be wrong) - apparently this line of reasoning angers you. Correct? Just curious, seems like an Atheist would not care.

Not angry, just slightly annoyed at sweeping generalizations about atheists.

Ok, I don't really agree with sweeping generalizations but I can see that point of view. I pointed out 7 resonably acceptable things used to describe what a religion may be and how Atheism might fit within that definition (which is ironic). However, isn't that what Atheist often do to religious people? Unfair assesment? Maybe.

It does seem to bring a vigorous response. In any case, I still am convinced we all have our idols it is only a matter of what the idols are or represent.
Myrant
Posts: 25
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9/29/2011 12:39:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 10:06:40 PM, Gileandos wrote:
I think the confusion here is that of causing a definition error.
Typically what you are calling religion is more broadly called an ideology.

Social, economic, athiesm and religious thought all are subclassifications under ideology.

Maybe, but I'm not convinced it is a semantics argument here. I still contend that almost every individual has their own beliefs that they follow in a religious manner. Using the term ideology probably would give confort to the non-religious religious the same way religion comforts the pro-religious religious.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/29/2011 4:53:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 6:53:14 PM, Myrant wrote:
For a while, I have been thinking about religion. All people seem to have it in one form or another it just depends on what the deity is: God, Atheism, Socialism, Communism. All people seem to stubbornly believe or argue for something in a faith based way. Thoughts?

Religion is fundamentally a system of thought that allows us to live with ourselves despite all the evidence of our true nature..

So Jews, who have a true religion, (as it is actually connected to God) can live with themselves by obeying the Law, keeping the Sabbath etc..

Women can live with themselves by keeping to a diet..

Men can live with themselves by only drinking at weekends or not smoking etc..

Junkies can live with themselves by only smoking heroin and not injecting..

Thieves can live with themselves by only taking from companies and not little old ladies..

And so it goes on.

How do YOU live with yourself?

Jesus came to set us free from religion; I no longer need to find a reason to 'be good compared to' (religion) now I can stand in the light of His love and mercy and be what I am; a sinner saved by the grace of God!

It's SUCH a relief to stop pretending, let me tell you.
The Cross.. the Cross.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/5/2011 5:51:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 9:38:24 PM, Myrant wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:59:45 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
It's an easier position to straw man and use an excuse to terrorize atheists.

Many of them became anti-theists for that reason, I'm sure.

"terrorize" atheists.....a bit dramatic maybe. In some weird ways, this illustrates my point. Is the thought that a person is associated with something that may be considered a "religion" terrorizing? What was the straw man in this case? Assuming the 7 points, which were refuted. So if he refutes the 7......no straw man then? I'm not inserting another argument, I will grant the counterpoints. The terrorizing thing is fascinating - is it a loss of power over your destiny thing? Why the venom?

If you've ever come out as an atheist in a family that happens to be almost entirely made up of not only the highly religious, but preachers and the like, you'd know why I use the word "terrorize".

No, I'm not being dramatic. I've been on the receiving end of a lot of abuse because of revelations I had when I was younger. I've been through 3 exorcisms.

Trust me when I say that for a year of my life, this had a very negative impact on my attitude towards theists. In a way, it was funny, because I wasn't an angry atheist, and because I was constantly type casted as one, and treated as some type of satanic entity. For the way I was treated, to me, they were the devils, and I treated them as such.

Luckily, I was able to separate from my family for a little over a year, and by the time I had come back I mellowed out, and they had come to terms with the fact that I was not the evil person they thought I was simply because I didn't believe in their particular brand of bullsh!t.

That said, sometimes these people get excited around me over things relating to this, and then their prejudice really shows. I am better able to handle that sort of thing now.

They get excited over silly things, and there is a very big anti-intellectual vibe. To give you an idea, in one of these sermons I had to sit through a couple weeks ago, the pastor(Who is family) said that the body is like a wine bottle, and for God to pour the wine of the holy spirit into you, the cork that is your brain has to pop off.

Needless to say, that sort of message does not appeal to me in the slightest.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
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10/5/2011 5:54:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/28/2011 8:55:21 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Strange how you all confuse atheism with anti-theism.

They often go hand in hand. I've pointed out that here on DDO, most religious debates are started by anti-theists, and most religious threads are started by anti-theists.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/5/2011 6:01:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 5:54:38 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/28/2011 8:55:21 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Strange how you all confuse atheism with anti-theism.

They often go hand in hand. I've pointed out that here on DDO, most religious debates are started by anti-theists, and most religious threads are started by anti-theists.

The anti-theists around here don't seem to be interested in any kind of intellectual discussion. They are going about things from the wrong angle.

I think most of what they say is just going to make people facepalm, or annoy them more than anything.

GreatestIAm seems particularly dense to me, I hardly read anything he posts anymore. I find it hard to believe that he's serious, but then again, he hasn't let up with his posting. He's very dedicated.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/5/2011 6:02:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No, I'm not being dramatic. I've been on the receiving end of a lot of abuse because of revelations I had when I was younger. I've been through 3 exorcisms.

Wow is all I can say here. I was never exorcised but I was raised Catholic. Then during Confirmation we had to attend several classes to learn about the faith in case we had just been a seat filler up till then. I asked several questions that weren't even that deep philosophically and the Priest told me to not ask such questions and never gave the answers. Basically this caused me to claim Atheism for 3 years. But it was because I was Atheist that I was able to then look at the evidence for Christianity without a bias. I looked at Christianity and not the Christian / Catholic for the first time. Well obviously I converted to Christianity but I do think that being an Atheist for a while gave me a thirst for searching out what the truth was. I know you think my truth is subjective, but that is not the point I'm trying to make. My point is that I think it's impressive to search out the truth, even if it means claiming Atheism or some other non-Theist approach, even in the face of opposition, especially when family and friends are the oppressors. Just keep an open mind and maybe someday your worldview will change back like mine did.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/5/2011 6:26:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 6:02:51 PM, Crede wrote:
No, I'm not being dramatic. I've been on the receiving end of a lot of abuse because of revelations I had when I was younger. I've been through 3 exorcisms.

Wow is all I can say here. I was never exorcised but I was raised Catholic. Then during Confirmation we had to attend several classes to learn about the faith in case we had just been a seat filler up till then. I asked several questions that weren't even that deep philosophically and the Priest told me to not ask such questions and never gave the answers. Basically this caused me to claim Atheism for 3 years. But it was because I was Atheist that I was able to then look at the evidence for Christianity without a bias. I looked at Christianity and not the Christian / Catholic for the first time. Well obviously I converted to Christianity but I do think that being an Atheist for a while gave me a thirst for searching out what the truth was. I know you think my truth is subjective, but that is not the point I'm trying to make. My point is that I think it's impressive to search out the truth, even if it means claiming Atheism or some other non-Theist approach, even in the face of opposition, especially when family and friends are the oppressors. Just keep an open mind and maybe someday your worldview will change back like mine did.

Part of the reason I believe the way I do is because of the fact that I obsessively studied religion at one point in my life. I am a self professed biblical scholar.

I know too much now, even though I do participate in the Church more than most, If interrogated about my beliefs, I could not be considered a Christian by most.

I'm really quite certain that the great majority of Christians have it very wrong. The meaning of the "gospel" is completely lost to them, and the church has became the very thing that Jesus rebelled against back in his time.

However, that said, ultimately, these things are irrelevant. What Jesus actually meant doesn't carry any weight if when compared to actuality it proves to be false. Let truth be the guide, as The Buddha said,

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

This is what it means to be guided by the holy spirit. It is a mindset of intellectual integrity and an honest search for truth. We are justified by faith, our HONEST BELIEF.. Not the faith, what we want to believe(as it seems to be endorsed by religion.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/5/2011 6:34:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well I definately think you are wrong there but whatever, it's your opinion. I do kind of sense that you are sterotyping radical, hate filled Christians that are normally portrayed in the media as all Christians. If not then I apologize. And I don't think the gospels are greatly misunderstood. If you read them without any predjudice then you will observe an overwhelming consistent idea and core of the belief system. That idea being that Christ is the only way to the father, the only way to truth, and the only one capable of redeeming creation to it's creator. Also the idea that he is qualified to do this by having been resurrected. These are inescapable realities presented in the NT. Churches that hold to these, and let the finer points of controversy in religion to fall to informal discussions, have the true essence of what Christ was teaching. Again you can disagree but I don't really see how this is not what the gospel and NT was talking about.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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10/5/2011 6:35:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Such a wise observation. Even reason is something that is clinged to with faith.

Though, I seem to be one person who does not believe a word he says.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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10/5/2011 6:42:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Atheism is not faith based. It is lack of faith, it does not say there is no god, it says we have no reason to believe. So we withhold belief. As an atheist you don't have faith. As to say an atheist has faith is creating a straw man atheism.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/5/2011 6:46:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 6:42:10 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Atheism is not faith based. It is lack of faith, it does not say there is no god, it says we have no reason to believe. So we withhold belief. As an atheist you don't have faith. As to say an atheist has faith is creating a straw man atheism.

Well I guess it all boils down to your definition of faith.

Complete trust or confidence in someone or something
www.dictionary.com

So if you have confidence in the idea that there is no God, then you have a faith in that statement / worldview. As most Atheists state, you can't dissprove a negative in referring to how they can't provide evidence against the existence of God, then they simply have to just believe in the idea that God does not exist. So a confidence, and a belief in Atheism qualifies as faith.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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10/5/2011 6:48:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 6:46:32 PM, Crede wrote:
At 10/5/2011 6:42:10 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Atheism is not faith based. It is lack of faith, it does not say there is no god, it says we have no reason to believe. So we withhold belief. As an atheist you don't have faith. As to say an atheist has faith is creating a straw man atheism.

Well I guess it all boils down to your definition of faith.

Complete trust or confidence in someone or something
www.dictionary.com

So if you have confidence in the idea that there is no God, then you have a faith in that statement / worldview. As most Atheists state, you can't dissprove a negative in referring to how they can't provide evidence against the existence of God, then they simply have to just believe in the idea that God does not exist. So a confidence, and a belief in Atheism qualifies as faith.

It is a lack of belief, not saying there is no god. Stop being intellectually dishonest I just went over that. If you don't understand the difference please don't blame me research it.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.