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Atheists and The Supernatural part II ?

inferno
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9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?
000ike
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9/29/2011 9:32:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Since the gungho theists are only receptive to religious logic, let me use religious logic against you.

Life is ruled by logic, the Earth is ruled by logic, and the universe is ruled by logic. The lord MADE the Earth ruled by logic and reasoning, otherwise supernatural and transcendental things would make perfect sense to us.

To assert the possibility of that which is ILLOGICAL is against the Lord's design of the Earth and design of man. This proof is upon observation of life.

If it is found through a millennium of Earthly and universal observation of life that "supernatural" things and experiences are ILLOGICAL and against the LAWS of physics and science (transitively the laws of EARTH AND LIFE), then that thing is indeed impossible.

You are asserting a nature to life that the Lord did not design. The lord designed logic. What you speak of is illogical. Case closed.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
inferno
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9/29/2011 9:38:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:32:33 AM, 000ike wrote:
Since the gungho theists are only receptive to religious logic, let me use religious logic against you.

Life is ruled by logic, the Earth is ruled by logic, and the universe is ruled by logic. The lord MADE the Earth ruled by logic and reasoning, otherwise supernatural and transcendental things would make perfect sense to us.

To assert the possibility of that which is ILLOGICAL is against the Lord's design of the Earth and design of man. This proof is upon observation of life.

If it is found through a millennium of Earthly and universal observation of life that "supernatural" things and experiences are ILLOGICAL and against the LAWS of physics and science (transitively the laws of EARTH AND LIFE), then that thing is indeed impossible.

You are asserting a nature to life that the Lord did not design. The lord designed logic. What you speak of is illogical. Case closed.

Case reopned. God defies logic. Not everything that you speak of if logical.
Some things cannot be explained. And to those who have had supernatural experiences, it makes PERFECT sense to those who believe. Your fallible and useless logic is irrelevent. Try again.
000ike
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9/29/2011 9:42:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:38:26 AM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:32:33 AM, 000ike wrote:
Since the gungho theists are only receptive to religious logic, let me use religious logic against you.

Life is ruled by logic, the Earth is ruled by logic, and the universe is ruled by logic. The lord MADE the Earth ruled by logic and reasoning, otherwise supernatural and transcendental things would make perfect sense to us.

To assert the possibility of that which is ILLOGICAL is against the Lord's design of the Earth and design of man. This proof is upon observation of life.

If it is found through a millennium of Earthly and universal observation of life that "supernatural" things and experiences are ILLOGICAL and against the LAWS of physics and science (transitively the laws of EARTH AND LIFE), then that thing is indeed impossible.

You are asserting a nature to life that the Lord did not design. The lord designed logic. What you speak of is illogical. Case closed.

Case reopned. God defies logic. Not everything that you speak of if logical.
Some things cannot be explained. And to those who have had supernatural experiences, it makes PERFECT sense to those who believe. Your fallible and useless logic is irrelevent. Try again.

Gladly.

The lord made us understand logic and logic ONLY. If he wanted us to understand such supernatural things, he would not have created the human mind with capacity for logic ONLY. Trying to use your imagination to assert things that the lord did not create is sinful. Shame on you.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
inferno
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9/29/2011 9:45:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:42:05 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:38:26 AM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:32:33 AM, 000ike wrote:
Since the gungho theists are only receptive to religious logic, let me use religious logic against you.

Life is ruled by logic, the Earth is ruled by logic, and the universe is ruled by logic. The lord MADE the Earth ruled by logic and reasoning, otherwise supernatural and transcendental things would make perfect sense to us.

To assert the possibility of that which is ILLOGICAL is against the Lord's design of the Earth and design of man. This proof is upon observation of life.

If it is found through a millennium of Earthly and universal observation of life that "supernatural" things and experiences are ILLOGICAL and against the LAWS of physics and science (transitively the laws of EARTH AND LIFE), then that thing is indeed impossible.

You are asserting a nature to life that the Lord did not design. The lord designed logic. What you speak of is illogical. Case closed.

Case reopned. God defies logic. Not everything that you speak of if logical.
Some things cannot be explained. And to those who have had supernatural experiences, it makes PERFECT sense to those who believe. Your fallible and useless logic is irrelevent. Try again.

Gladly.

The lord made us understand logic and logic ONLY. If he wanted us to understand such supernatural things, he would not have created the human mind with capacity for logic ONLY. Trying to use your imagination to assert things that the lord did not create is sinful. Shame on you.

It is not our imagination you moron. Spiritual people have the capacity to rationalize things that are oblivious to you. It is fact. It is not forced or a state of delusion. That is another failed logic from you Atheists. God exists and many do believe in Him. You obviously cannot accept this as truth and you never will.
000ike
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9/29/2011 9:54:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:45:35 AM, inferno wrote:

It is not our imagination you moron. Spiritual people have the capacity to rationalize things that are oblivious to you. It is fact. It is not forced or a state of delusion. That is another failed logic from you Atheists. God exists and many do believe in Him. You obviously cannot accept this as truth and you never will.

Au contrare, I am an Agnostic Theist. :)

What I set out to defeat is the notions of popular Christianity, the Bible and its errancies, and the notion of the supernatural.

Syllogism 1

1. The lord created the Earth and the universe. Right?

2. The Earth and the Universe IS RULED BY LOGIC. Do you agree? If you don't, then I will take this to the debate battlefield immediately.

3. The lord made the Earth ruled by logic.

_________________________________________________________
Syllogism 2.

1. If the Earth is ruled by logic

2. and supernatural things are illogical

3. Supernatural things are impossible
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
inferno
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9/29/2011 9:56:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:54:12 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:45:35 AM, inferno wrote:

It is not our imagination you moron. Spiritual people have the capacity to rationalize things that are oblivious to you. It is fact. It is not forced or a state of delusion. That is another failed logic from you Atheists. God exists and many do believe in Him. You obviously cannot accept this as truth and you never will.

Au contrare, I am an Agnostic Theist. :)

What I set out to defeat is the notions of popular Christianity, the Bible and its errancies, and the notion of the supernatural.

Syllogism 1

1. The lord created the Earth and the universe. Right?

2. The Earth and the Universe IS RULED BY LOGIC. Do you agree? If you don't, then I will take this to the debate battlefield immediately.

3. The lord made the Earth ruled by logic.

_________________________________________________________
Syllogism 2.

1. If the Earth is ruled by logic

2. and supernatural things are illogical

3. Supernatural things are impossible

000ike. Agnostic or not. You are either for God or you are against Him. There is no in between here. It seems that you are confused if anything else. That does not surprise me on bit for someone who has yet to confirm their identity.
000ike
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9/29/2011 10:00:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:56:26 AM, inferno wrote:
000ike. Agnostic or not. You are either for God or you are against Him. There is no in between here. It seems that you are confused if anything else. That does not surprise me on bit for someone who has yet to confirm their identity.

Do you know what agnostic theism means? I don't think you do. It means that I BELIEVE that there is a God, but I will not assert that I know that as a fact because it is impossible to know this for fact.

I believe the only confused person is you, for A. sticking to the Bible, which the majority of man has come to realize is not very reliable, and B. for not understanding the concept of Agnosticism.

By the way, what do you mean by "yet to confirm their identity"?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
inferno
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9/29/2011 10:02:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 10:00:06 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:56:26 AM, inferno wrote:
000ike. Agnostic or not. You are either for God or you are against Him. There is no in between here. It seems that you are confused if anything else. That does not surprise me on bit for someone who has yet to confirm their identity.

Do you know what agnostic theism means? I don't think you do. It means that I BELIEVE that there is a God, but I will not assert that I know that as a fact because it is impossible to know this for fact.

I believe the only confused person is you, for A. sticking to the Bible, which the majority of man has come to realize is not very reliable, and B. for not understanding the concept of Agnosticism.

By the way, what do you mean by "yet to confirm their identity"?

I dont think you really do. That is my definition of the word. The secular does not matter to me. How can you believe in someone if you do not trust what they do or say. You sound like a bumbling fool.
000ike
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9/29/2011 10:04:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 10:02:21 AM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 10:00:06 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:56:26 AM, inferno wrote:
000ike. Agnostic or not. You are either for God or you are against Him. There is no in between here. It seems that you are confused if anything else. That does not surprise me on bit for someone who has yet to confirm their identity.

Do you know what agnostic theism means? I don't think you do. It means that I BELIEVE that there is a God, but I will not assert that I know that as a fact because it is impossible to know this for fact.

I believe the only confused person is you, for A. sticking to the Bible, which the majority of man has come to realize is not very reliable, and B. for not understanding the concept of Agnosticism.

By the way, what do you mean by "yet to confirm their identity"?

I dont think you really do. That is my definition of the word. The secular does not matter to me. How can you believe in someone if you do not trust what they do or say. You sound like a bumbling fool.

Tell me, what does the lord do, and how did you find out that he does this?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
inferno
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9/29/2011 10:12:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 10:04:00 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/29/2011 10:02:21 AM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 10:00:06 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:56:26 AM, inferno wrote:
000ike. Agnostic or not. You are either for God or you are against Him. There is no in between here. It seems that you are confused if anything else. That does not surprise me on bit for someone who has yet to confirm their identity.

Do you know what agnostic theism means? I don't think you do. It means that I BELIEVE that there is a God, but I will not assert that I know that as a fact because it is impossible to know this for fact.

I believe the only confused person is you, for A. sticking to the Bible, which the majority of man has come to realize is not very reliable, and B. for not understanding the concept of Agnosticism.

By the way, what do you mean by "yet to confirm their identity"?

I dont think you really do. That is my definition of the word. The secular does not matter to me. How can you believe in someone if you do not trust what they do or say. You sound like a bumbling fool.

Tell me, what does the lord do, and how did you find out that he does this?

000IKE- You must understand that there is a reason why 98% of the entire world do believe in a deity or God. People are spiritual beings and this has been proven.
You cannot classify that everyone is delusional or hoodwinked by propaganda.
People actually would rather remain in a state of sin. So this contradicts your logic.
Which is that we only choose to follow God because we dont have enough sense to realize what we like for ourselves. If someone goes through a life altering event, you WILL change whether you want to or not. Your internal conflicts will no longer hender you. Those thoughts will be there, but something inside of you will prevent you from doing so. That sinful nature will not be as strong. Anyway. We have choices in life. If we choose to follow God it is because we are changed.
You underestimate that idea I see.
inferno
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9/29/2011 10:16:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
As far as movies are concerned, there are people who actually live a life of adventure. Some of you may be oblivious to this also. lol But anyway, these films show us the things that happen to normal people on a daily basis. The Exorcism of Emily Rose was based on a true story. And yes, their were witnesses during this
supernatural event. Now surely you do understand that a court cannot dictate if
God is real or not. This has been taken out of context by a system that is
ANTI CHRIST. So they know that God exists, but they would rather you not know.
They are their own gods. They want you to put your trust in them. This is very true.
000ike
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9/29/2011 10:19:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 10:12:23 AM, inferno wrote:

000IKE- You must understand that there is a reason why 98% of the entire world do believe in a deity or God. People are spiritual beings and this has been proven.
You cannot classify that everyone is delusional or hoodwinked by propaganda.
People actually would rather remain in a state of sin. So this contradicts your logic.
Which is that we only choose to follow God because we dont have enough sense to realize what we like for ourselves. If someone goes through a life altering event, you WILL change whether you want to or not. Your internal conflicts will no longer hender you. Those thoughts will be there, but something inside of you will prevent you from doing so. That sinful nature will not be as strong. Anyway. We have choices in life. If we choose to follow God it is because we are changed.
You underestimate that idea I see.

What? You didn't answer my question. Whatever, I'll let it go.

You almost had me when you said "people are spiritual beings...", but then I remembered that this spirituality originates from our complex intelligence and proclivity to discover a meaning and purpose in the process and existence of life and the Universe. It does not come from some transcendental decree.

Who is to say that it was God who changed your life? If the lord could change lives and alter reality, then why does he not do so when man needs it most? The holocaust, the holocaust, the holocaust. Not one Christian miracle believer, has given a COHERENT explanation for this event. Why would the lord not use his power to bend reality, to save all those innocent people who BELIEVED IN HIM???
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
inferno
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9/29/2011 10:21:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 10:19:05 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/29/2011 10:12:23 AM, inferno wrote:

000IKE- You must understand that there is a reason why 98% of the entire world do believe in a deity or God. People are spiritual beings and this has been proven.
You cannot classify that everyone is delusional or hoodwinked by propaganda.
People actually would rather remain in a state of sin. So this contradicts your logic.
Which is that we only choose to follow God because we dont have enough sense to realize what we like for ourselves. If someone goes through a life altering event, you WILL change whether you want to or not. Your internal conflicts will no longer hender you. Those thoughts will be there, but something inside of you will prevent you from doing so. That sinful nature will not be as strong. Anyway. We have choices in life. If we choose to follow God it is because we are changed.
You underestimate that idea I see.

What? You didn't answer my question. Whatever, I'll let it go.

You almost had me when you said "people are spiritual beings...", but then I remembered that this spirituality originates from our complex intelligence and proclivity to discover a meaning and purpose in the process and existence of life and the Universe. It does not come from some transcendental decree.

Who is to say that it was God who changed your life? If the lord could change lives and alter reality, then why does he not do so when man needs it most? The holocaust, the holocaust, the holocaust. Not one Christian miracle believer, has given a COHERENT explanation for this event. Why would the lord not use his power to bend reality, to save all those innocent people who BELIEVED IN HIM???

000ike. The Holocaust happened for a reason. As bad as it was all other
races of people here on Earth has had their own kind of holocaust.
So what is your point / That was too selective to me. Especially since I am
African American. (eyes rolling in head)
JustCallMeTarzan
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9/29/2011 12:53:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences.

Neither have any theists. They just believe they have.

Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.

Because those "profound experiences" can be replicated in an MRI machine or with drugs. It's entirely psychological - their brains simply (for lack of a better term) misfired.

Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.

Not YET. But doesn't it concern you that every time science steps forward, religion is whittled away? Almost makes it seem like religion is just a name for stuff science cannot explain - it's not an actual description of TRUTH - it's a description of IGNORANCE.

Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

Do you mean man's capacity? Like capacity for knowledge? Perhaps... but does it really matter? I can accept that there are certain things I may never know, but that in no way leads me to believe there must be a god.
inferno
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9/29/2011 1:05:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 12:53:33 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences.

Neither have any theists. They just believe they have.

Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.

Because those "profound experiences" can be replicated in an MRI machine or with drugs. It's entirely psychological - their brains simply (for lack of a better term) misfired.

Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.

Not YET. But doesn't it concern you that every time science steps forward, religion is whittled away? Almost makes it seem like religion is just a name for stuff science cannot explain - it's not an actual description of TRUTH - it's a description of IGNORANCE.

Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

Do you mean man's capacity? Like capacity for knowledge? Perhaps... but does it really matter? I can accept that there are certain things I may never know, but that in no way leads me to believe there must be a god.

They just believe they have ? Just like you believe that God does not exist.
Where is your proof son ? That is what I thought.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/29/2011 1:23:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

We know that humans halluncinate, we know that humans lie. We can't just assume that anyone who claims a supernatural experience is being factual.

Do you assume that all supernatural experiences are equal and valid? Joseph Smith, St Francis of Assisi, Mohammed... did they all get revelation from God?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Gileandos
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9/29/2011 1:24:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 9:54:12 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:45:35 AM, inferno wrote:
Au contrare, I am an Agnostic Theist. :)

What I set out to defeat is the notions of popular Christianity, the Bible and its errancies, and the notion of the supernatural.

Syllogism 1

1. The lord created the Earth and the universe. Right?

2. The Earth and the Universe IS RULED BY LOGIC. Do you agree? If you don't, then I will take this to the debate battlefield immediately.

3. The lord made the Earth ruled by logic.

_________________________________________________________
Syllogism 2.

1. If the Earth is ruled by logic

2. and supernatural things are illogical

3. Supernatural things are impossible

Ike,
I would like to address this two ways if you do not mind.

In the first part I by no means wish to defend the notion that logic is not universal. I do believe it is universal.
I wish to put forward your perception via logic is limited and must expand through a better scientific understanding of the universe around you.

Here is the second part. Your claim of supernatural experiences being illogical can be tested via a mathematical concept.

Lets take the scenario of Moses and the parting of the red sea. Lets put the characters and the scene into a two-dimensional plane of existence.

I hope you are familiar with these concepts, if not feel free to take a few minutes to review dimensional concepts within space. Not just three dimensions but greater.

(This is why you will find that few mathematicians are atheists but the vast majorities are agnostic at best, but by greater margin they will even be religious EVEN in western scientific culture)

Now on to the explanation:

Imagine you shrink this scenario down to the top of your living room coffee table. You place two-dimensional characters on one side, in the middle you place 2D Moses and Israelites, and then on the right side you place a 2D ocean.

This 2D ocean could be parted easily by 3D involvement. It would even appear to defy the laws that govern the 2D world.
The mechanism of separation would appear out of nowhere and then part the sea by an unseen force moving the water.
You would generate a wind source by blowing etc.

All of these forces would be external to the 2D people and appear as to defy the Laws that govern the 2D world.
Water does not part of its own accord. That would be absurd. Nevertheless the water would appear as though it had just parted miraculously.

You would then let the Jews go through then remove the barrier and drown the 2D Egyptians.

This is not an exact analogy but every claim of the supernatural can find a complete explanation within the framework of science and logic when our universe is fully understood.

Have you studied mathematics before or physics?
The video is a great hands on explanation for the conceptual mathematics.
Gileandos
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9/29/2011 1:25:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:23:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

We know that humans halluncinate, we know that humans lie. We can't just assume that anyone who claims a supernatural experience is being factual.

Do you assume that all supernatural experiences are equal and valid? Joseph Smith, St Francis of Assisi, Mohammed... did they all get revelation from God?

As Christians we claim they did experience something, but not that it was "fully" authentic in that it was not truly from God.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/29/2011 1:26:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 10:16:03 AM, inferno wrote:
As far as movies are concerned, there are people who actually live a life of adventure. Some of you may be oblivious to this also. lol But anyway, these films show us the things that happen to normal people on a daily basis. The Exorcism of Emily Rose was based on a true story. And yes, their were witnesses during this
supernatural event. Now surely you do understand that a court cannot dictate if
God is real or not. This has been taken out of context by a system that is
ANTI CHRIST. So they know that God exists, but they would rather you not know.
They are their own gods. They want you to put your trust in them. This is very true.

There is no evidence of supernaturalism in that event. We were not there, we did not see any of it. Plus we know that the majority of phenomana attributed to the possessed can be explained by science.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
inferno
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9/29/2011 1:27:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:23:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

We know that humans halluncinate, we know that humans lie. We can't just assume that anyone who claims a supernatural experience is being factual.

Do you assume that all supernatural experiences are equal and valid? Joseph Smith, St Francis of Assisi, Mohammed... did they all get revelation from God?

That is the difference between me and you. I know which ones are real and which ones are fake. That does not take anything away from how awesome God is.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/29/2011 1:28:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:25:37 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:23:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

We know that humans halluncinate, we know that humans lie. We can't just assume that anyone who claims a supernatural experience is being factual.

Do you assume that all supernatural experiences are equal and valid? Joseph Smith, St Francis of Assisi, Mohammed... did they all get revelation from God?

As Christians we claim they did experience something, but not that it was "fully" authentic in that it was not truly from God.

How do you know? What standard of evidence or test do you impose on claims of revelation?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/29/2011 1:28:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:27:59 PM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:23:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

We know that humans halluncinate, we know that humans lie. We can't just assume that anyone who claims a supernatural experience is being factual.

Do you assume that all supernatural experiences are equal and valid? Joseph Smith, St Francis of Assisi, Mohammed... did they all get revelation from God?

That is the difference between me and you. I know which ones are real and which ones are fake. That does not take anything away from how awesome God is.

Well I admit I do not know. How do you know?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
inferno
Posts: 10,628
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9/29/2011 1:30:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:26:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 10:16:03 AM, inferno wrote:
As far as movies are concerned, there are people who actually live a life of adventure. Some of you may be oblivious to this also. lol But anyway, these films show us the things that happen to normal people on a daily basis. The Exorcism of Emily Rose was based on a true story. And yes, their were witnesses during this
supernatural event. Now surely you do understand that a court cannot dictate if
God is real or not. This has been taken out of context by a system that is
ANTI CHRIST. So they know that God exists, but they would rather you not know.
They are their own gods. They want you to put your trust in them. This is very true.

There is no evidence of supernaturalism in that event. We were not there, we did not see any of it. Plus we know that the majority of phenomana attributed to the possessed can be explained by science.

Yes there is proof that this event was real. The movie did not give all of the undisclosed details. The people in that area are well aware of what happened and with reason. It happened. I know because I have seen two exorcisms myself in real life. It was the real thing. Case closed.
inferno
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9/29/2011 1:32:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:28:54 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:27:59 PM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:23:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

We know that humans halluncinate, we know that humans lie. We can't just assume that anyone who claims a supernatural experience is being factual.

Do you assume that all supernatural experiences are equal and valid? Joseph Smith, St Francis of Assisi, Mohammed... did they all get revelation from God?

That is the difference between me and you. I know which ones are real and which ones are fake. That does not take anything away from how awesome God is.

Well I admit I do not know. How do you know?

Because I go by truth and not lies by the devil. A false bearer gives false testimony. A bearer of truth gives one that is true. Because you are so far out there and beyond my friend, people like you are oblivious to the spirit world.
Now we can change that if you wish, but youre probably too scared to handle such deomic forces in this world. And believe me friend, you know how it always ends up.........Oh yeah, you WILL believe.
inferno
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9/29/2011 1:33:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:28:17 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:25:37 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:23:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

We know that humans halluncinate, we know that humans lie. We can't just assume that anyone who claims a supernatural experience is being factual.

Do you assume that all supernatural experiences are equal and valid? Joseph Smith, St Francis of Assisi, Mohammed... did they all get revelation from God?

As Christians we claim they did experience something, but not that it was "fully" authentic in that it was not truly from God.

How do you know? What standard of evidence or test do you impose on claims of revelation?

Again. The proof is the experience itself. It makes perfect sense to me.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/29/2011 1:34:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would also like to address the concept of mass halucinations and the like.
- It is purely a speculative concept
- A source like a spicy salsa cannot be duplicated in the lab and little science has been put forward to backup the concept.

I believe a more valid scientific approach is to look to the solutions that physics puts forward in dimensional space and wrapped universe models.

We find all supernatural occurances explained within these physics models.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/29/2011 1:35:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:30:11 PM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:26:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 10:16:03 AM, inferno wrote:
As far as movies are concerned, there are people who actually live a life of adventure. Some of you may be oblivious to this also. lol But anyway, these films show us the things that happen to normal people on a daily basis. The Exorcism of Emily Rose was based on a true story. And yes, their were witnesses during this
supernatural event. Now surely you do understand that a court cannot dictate if
God is real or not. This has been taken out of context by a system that is
ANTI CHRIST. So they know that God exists, but they would rather you not know.
They are their own gods. They want you to put your trust in them. This is very true.

There is no evidence of supernaturalism in that event. We were not there, we did not see any of it. Plus we know that the majority of phenomana attributed to the possessed can be explained by science.

Yes there is proof that this event was real. The movie did not give all of the undisclosed details. The people in that area are well aware of what happened and with reason. It happened. I know because I have seen two exorcisms myself in real life. It was the real thing. Case closed.

The Christian prosecutor and Jury were not convinced. Why should I be?

There is psychological phenomana that will convince intelligent laymen of the truth of exorcism, but not scientists who specialise in that field. You are of below average intelligence, I am not suprised you have been fooled.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/29/2011 1:37:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:32:19 PM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:28:54 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:27:59 PM, inferno wrote:
At 9/29/2011 1:23:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/29/2011 9:22:56 AM, inferno wrote:
So it seems that none of you Atheists have had an supernatural experiences. Tell me how is it possible for you to deny the fact that the supernatural does exist based on the substantial and profoun experiences of others.
Surely you realize that science itself cannot explain everything under the sun.
Some things are beyond mans capability, and having proof of this technically speaking is virtually impossible. Do you agree ?

We know that humans halluncinate, we know that humans lie. We can't just assume that anyone who claims a supernatural experience is being factual.

Do you assume that all supernatural experiences are equal and valid? Joseph Smith, St Francis of Assisi, Mohammed... did they all get revelation from God?

That is the difference between me and you. I know which ones are real and which ones are fake. That does not take anything away from how awesome God is.

Well I admit I do not know. How do you know?

Because I go by truth and not lies by the devil. A false bearer gives false testimony. A bearer of truth gives one that is true. Because you are so far out there and beyond my friend, people like you are oblivious to the spirit world.

Again how do you know?

Now we can change that if you wish, but youre probably too scared to handle such deomic forces in this world. And believe me friend, you know how it always ends up.........Oh yeah, you WILL believe.

Again I welcome such demonic forces for that very reason. But they don't exist.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/29/2011 1:38:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 1:34:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
I would also like to address the concept of mass halucinations and the like.
- It is purely a speculative concept

Actually it's been repeatedly proven.

- A source like a spicy salsa cannot be duplicated in the lab and little science has been put forward to backup the concept.

I believe a more valid scientific approach is to look to the solutions that physics puts forward in dimensional space and wrapped universe models.

We find all supernatural occurances explained within these physics models.

You will find whatever you want if you pee on science for long enough.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.