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God. Profit from Murder and Genocide? Get ser

GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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9/29/2011 11:44:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
God. Profit from Murder and Genocide? Get serious.

When reading the Bible, the facts show God as setting a ransom for forgiving man. That ransom was Jesus. God then sets the conditions to have Jesus murdered. Thus is how all sins, for all of eternal time, are forgiven. God does not do anything half way. After all, He would not want to break his own word and sin again.

Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.

Father God screwed up and he is having his son Jesus bear the iniquity that he himself created. An insane act.

No sane God would waste a son so needlessly. This is obvious I think to most.

This is the conclusion that one must come to, if we make Jesus part of the Trinity. This is unacceptable, as God would not murder his son.
This kills the Trinity notion.

Otherwise, God Goes straight to hell for murder.

As above, so below. The believers duty is to follow God's example. The first commandment.

If you would NOT do such, ( murder your own son ), and you are of the Abraham religions, then you are not a true follower. You have placed yourself above God.

Rather a catch 22.

The genocide of Noah's day would also be an example of God profiting from murder. At a wholesale price. It boils down to God having a reality that he did not like, to a position of God having a reality that he liked better. Strangely, some even say that God does not change.

The God that I know does not work that way.

If your God does, and you follow this God, you should question why you do.

To follow your God, you would have to be willing to kill your own children, as well as use genocide on the rest of mankind, as you follow an unfathomable, impossible to understand, alien God.

How does that make you feel?

Poorly I hope. Does it make you want to trade in your God for a new and improved model?

One who will not ask you to go insane with him. All that just because he found something that he did not create. Iniquity. This, God had to learn as he had not known it was in him.

Regards
DL
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/29/2011 12:59:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 11:44:47 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
God. Profit from Murder and Genocide? Get serious.

When reading the Bible, the facts show God as setting a ransom for forgiving man. That ransom was Jesus. God then sets the conditions to have Jesus murdered. Thus is how all sins, for all of eternal time, are forgiven. God does not do anything half way. After all, He would not want to break his own word and sin again.

We use definitions in language to be able to correctly explain things. You cannot just use new definitions to wrangle God into a conundrum.

This appears to be your own interpret reading of the Bible not Christian Dogma. Odds are if 99.999999999999999999999% of people that read the Bible do not interpret it your way... you might be out on a proverbial limb.

Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.

Father God screwed up and he is having his son Jesus bear the iniquity that he himself created. An insane act.

Yep all those authors of the Bible and theologians have just been morons. They didn't see this one coming. You personally have shaken Christian theological understanding. I am in awe.


No sane God would waste a son so needlessly. This is obvious I think to most.

Yep Jesus was wasted and tossed to the garbage by God... or wait maybe he is sitting on a throne for solving the whole problem. Did you read the bible?

This is the conclusion that one must come to, if we make Jesus part of the Trinity. This is unacceptable, as God would not murder his son.
This kills the Trinity notion.

When in the Bible did God murder His son? Even if he did how does that kill the Trinity Notion? Are you saying you read somewhere in the Bible Jesus ceased to exist?


Otherwise, God Goes straight to hell for murder.


As above, so below. The believers duty is to follow God's example. The first commandment.

If you would NOT do such, ( murder your own son ), and you are of the Abraham religions, then you are not a true follower. You have placed yourself above God.

SO you are complaining about God being a murderer? Who are you to make a moral judgement.
"Judge not lest you be judged also."
I would stop making moral judgements if I were you... its bad for your health.


Rather a catch 22.

lol, agreed see above.

The genocide of Noah's day would also be an example of God profiting from murder. At a wholesale price. It boils down to God having a reality that he did not like, to a position of God having a reality that he liked better. Strangely, some even say that God does not change.

I agree with God. We benefit and profit as a society when murderers and pedophiles are eliminated from society. Killing is not murder. Who are you to make a moral judgement that God murdered these people? Where you there? Let me see your evidence!?


The God that I know does not work that way.

You have met him?

If your God does, and you follow this God, you should question why you do.

To follow your God, you would have to be willing to kill your own children, as well as use genocide on the rest of mankind, as you follow an unfathomable, impossible to understand, alien God.

If my children choose evil and become murderers and pedophiles and will not repent of their evil I should just let them continue and not stop them? What world do you live in?
Yes I would stop my children who became evil.

How does that make you feel?
Responsible to try my best to raise good children. Should they choose against the good despite my best efforts they will stand accountable.


Poorly I hope. Does it make you want to trade in your God for a new and improved model?

One who will not ask you to go insane with him. All that just because he found something that he did not create. Iniquity. This, God had to learn as he had not known it was in him.

Hmmm, I wonder who is insane... Did you actually read the Bible?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/1/2011 10:24:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 12:59:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:

SO you are complaining about God being a murderer? Who are you to make a moral judgement.
"Judge not lest you be judged also."
I would stop making moral judgements if I were you... its bad for your health.



I see that you do not allow a level playing field for debate.
You can judge your God but I cannot.
I will play if you want to level the field.


I agree with God. We benefit and profit as a society when murderers and pedophiles are eliminated from society. Killing is not murder. Who are you to make a moral judgement that God murdered these people? Where you there? Let me see your evidence!?


L

My evidence is in the words you used in speaking of God. Murder.
As to evidence, who, other than God, decided to make his son the ransom for forgiving sin when he had all kinds of options that he had already used in forgiving before Jesus was sent to be murdered.
God put Jesus in harms way. No one else.
His plan remember.

Regards
DL
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/1/2011 11:37:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/1/2011 10:24:10 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/29/2011 12:59:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:

SO you are complaining about God being a murderer? Who are you to make a moral judgement.
"Judge not lest you be judged also."
I would stop making moral judgements if I were you... its bad for your health.



I see that you do not allow a level playing field for debate.
You can judge your God but I cannot.
I will play if you want to level the field.


I agree with God. We benefit and profit as a society when murderers and pedophiles are eliminated from society. Killing is not murder. Who are you to make a moral judgement that God murdered these people? Where you there? Let me see your evidence!?


L

My evidence is in the words you used in speaking of God. Murder.
As to evidence, who, other than God, decided to make his son the ransom for forgiving sin when he had all kinds of options that he had already used in forgiving before Jesus was sent to be murdered.
God put Jesus in harms way. No one else.
His plan remember.

Regards
DL

Feel free to judge God. The statement was not "judge not". It was followed by "lest you be judged also".
There was an acceptance that you are consenting to a level playing field.

That means when you make moral judgments against God he can do the same thing against you.

If i comes down to determining if you can assert your authority over God or he asserts His authority over you... who do you think will win?

It was an excercise of practicality. Hence the health warning.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/1/2011 9:35:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/1/2011 10:24:10 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/29/2011 12:59:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
I agree with God. We benefit and profit as a society when murderers and pedophiles are eliminated from society. Killing is not murder. Who are you to make a moral judgement that God murdered these people? Where you there? Let me see your evidence!?


L

My evidence is in the words you used in speaking of God. Murder.
As to evidence, who, other than God, decided to make his son the ransom for forgiving sin when he had all kinds of options that he had already used in forgiving before Jesus was sent to be murdered.
God put Jesus in harms way. No one else.
His plan remember.

Regards
DL

I actually read the bible. Jesus was not murdered by anyone. He was executed for Heresy. He was innocent of the crime. However, that was not the end of the story.

Here is a video that does a great job explaining the entire story since you were not able to patiently finish the book.

This way of learning may be more to your palette.
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/1/2011 11:49:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Wow, it is amazing how someone can twist biblical history to push their own agenda or push some form of religious bashing. Do you always pick and choose pieces of larger concepts and word them in such a way to sound like your answer is the only intelligent one? Or maybe you are in fact the brainwashed one here demonstrating it by your pure anit-Christian attitude. Being arrogant about these things never makes the other side consider your position, so you might think of a way to present your case in a less ego-driven way.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/2/2011 1:31:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 11:44:47 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
God. Profit from Murder and Genocide? Get serious.

When reading the Bible, the facts show God as setting a ransom for forgiving man. That ransom was Jesus. God then sets the conditions to have Jesus murdered. Thus is how all sins, for all of eternal time, are forgiven. God does not do anything half way. After all, He would not want to break his own word and sin again.

Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.

Father God screwed up and he is having his son Jesus bear the iniquity that he himself created. An insane act.

You have a severe lack in knowledge of Scripture.

Jesus is the only one that could do this. Also, the redemption isn't automatic. In the verse you quoted the ransom couldn't be paid by the brother, the brother would have to ask for himself. You have no idea why Jesus did what He did. I think it is best if you study and learn a little more before you try quoting really bad anti-theist people like Dawkins.

No sane God would waste a son so needlessly. This is obvious I think to most.

You can call it a waste because you look at things as a child looks. Jesus didn't consider it a waste and neither did the Father. Quite the opposite really. God's children were and are more then worth ten times more. God neither needs or requires us. But He wants us, bad enough to give up His only begotten Son.

This is the conclusion that one must come to, if we make Jesus part of the Trinity. This is unacceptable, as God would not murder his son.

God didn't murder His Son. We did. If it weren't for our sin Jesus would not have had to die on that Cross.

This kills the Trinity notion.

Not even close.



As above, so below. The believers duty is to follow God's example. The first commandment.

If you would NOT do such, ( murder your own son ), and you are of the Abraham religions, then you are not a true follower. You have placed yourself above God.

Rather a catch 22.

Wow, the above is absurd. You will need to substantiate your first claims before you can go into this.

The genocide of Noah's day would also be an example of God profiting from murder. At a wholesale price. It boils down to God having a reality that he did not like, to a position of God having a reality that he liked better. Strangely, some even say that God does not change.

How does He change? The people of Noahs day were judged and received their judgement. It's funny you always refuse to acknowledge certain aspects of God. One being He is all knowing.

The God that I know does not work that way.

So you have a God that you have fashioned to be as you wish. How quaint. And pointless.

If your God does, and you follow this God, you should question why you do.

Or I could make my own God as you have. Questions have been asked, and when they were asked in all honesty they were answered.

To follow your God, you would have to be willing to kill your own children, as well as use genocide on the rest of mankind, as you follow an unfathomable, impossible to understand, alien God.

Again you need to substantiate your accusations of murdering my Son. Let me flip it around for you. Let's say you say a great danger for all man kind. You believed it to be true and coming. Your son also believed as you do. If your son chose to give his life to save mankind would you stop him? I know I would want to go instead but let's say I couldn't. Please tell me that your selfishness isn't so strong that you would not allow your son to give his life for others.

How does that make you feel?

This post makes me feel tremendously sad for you.

Poorly I hope. Does it make you want to trade in your God for a new and improved model?

New and improved huh? Sounds like the words of a thief and a swindler. Like a man that would trade his wife for a new and improved bride if he should find any fault with his first. Even if the fault truly lies within himself.

One who will not ask you to go insane with him. All that just because he found something that he did not create. Iniquity. This, God had to learn as he had not known it was in him.

I would take a long look in the mirror for a close encounter with insanity. You haven't established any of your claims and you are peddling nonsense. I would like to talk to you about this but you will probably change the subject a dozen times and take one sentence or word from a paragraph and build a straw man, this is your normal course of action. But I thought I would give it a shot.

Regards
DL

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/7/2011 4:28:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/1/2011 11:37:44 AM, Gileandos wrote:

If i comes down to determining if you can assert your authority over God or he asserts His authority over you... who do you think will win?

It was an excercise of practicality. Hence the health warning.

Are you suggesting that I let fear draw my moral rules for me?
No thanks.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/7/2011 4:31:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/1/2011 11:49:37 PM, Crede wrote:
Wow, it is amazing how someone can twist biblical history to push their own agenda or push some form of religious bashing. Do you always pick and choose pieces of larger concepts and word them in such a way to sound like your answer is the only intelligent one? Or maybe you are in fact the brainwashed one here demonstrating it by your pure anit-Christian attitude. Being arrogant about these things never makes the other side consider your position, so you might think of a way to present your case in a less ego-driven way.

Why?

If this is how a premise is refuted then I have no reason to change.

Regards
DL