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Eternal Security

Crede
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10/4/2011 1:19:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I have been trying to decide on if I should debate this topic or not so I figured I'd feel it out in a thread. For those of you who don't know what eternal security is regarding then I shall explain. Eternal security is a Christian idea that once you are saved (accept Christ as your Lord and Savior and have become born again) then you can never lose that salvation. You can't lose it by any external force, and you cannot denounce it yourself.

Thoughts.....
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/4/2011 1:58:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Basically there is scripture that can be interpreted in either direction. There are pro and con reasons for believing in either side.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/4/2011 3:42:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Though the idea seems abhorrent I am not sure how I could refute it theologically.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
hotdog
Posts: 44
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10/4/2011 7:21:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/4/2011 1:19:28 AM, Crede wrote:
I have been trying to decide on if I should debate this topic or not so I figured I'd feel it out in a thread. For those of you who don't know what eternal security is regarding then I shall explain. Eternal security is a Christian idea that once you are saved (accept Christ as your Lord and Savior and have become born again) then you can never lose that salvation. You can't lose it by any external force, and you cannot denounce it yourself.

Thoughts.....

It's such a strange idea. It doesn't make any sense.
What does born again mean?
Why can't you denounce it if you want to? What if you become a big sinner - you accept jesus and then do whatever you liked? Are you still saved?
And what are you saved from?
CrimsonTokala
Posts: 61
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10/4/2011 11:48:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/4/2011 7:21:05 AM, hotdog wrote:
At 10/4/2011 1:19:28 AM, Crede wrote:
I have been trying to decide on if I should debate this topic or not so I figured I'd feel it out in a thread. For those of you who don't know what eternal security is regarding then I shall explain. Eternal security is a Christian idea that once you are saved (accept Christ as your Lord and Savior and have become born again) then you can never lose that salvation. You can't lose it by any external force, and you cannot denounce it yourself.

Thoughts.....

It's such a strange idea. It doesn't make any sense.
What does born again mean?
Why can't you denounce it if you want to? What if you become a big sinner - you accept jesus and then do whatever you liked? Are you still saved?
And what are you saved from?

I'll try to answer as thoroughly as possible...

Born again simply means that when you accept Jesus as your savior you are given salvation.
"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

Why can't you denounce it if you want to? What if you become a big sinner - you accept jesus and then do whatever you liked? Are you still saved?
We do not have a right to sin, though it is in our nature. After accepting Jesus as your savior when you do sin you must ask for forgiveness. If you do not, those who fall short of the glory of God will not enter the kingdom, once accepting Christ, any sins before are forgotten but ones after you must ask for forgiveness.

And what are you saved from?
And you are saved from the second death, hell, an eternity separated from God and Jesus Christ.

I hope this helped.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/4/2011 2:32:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/4/2011 1:19:28 AM, Crede wrote:
I have been trying to decide on if I should debate this topic or not so I figured I'd feel it out in a thread. For those of you who don't know what eternal security is regarding then I shall explain. Eternal security is a Christian idea that once you are saved (accept Christ as your Lord and Savior and have become born again) then you can never lose that salvation. You can't lose it by any external force, and you cannot denounce it yourself.

Thoughts.....

I would start your research in the Bible, it's a pretty good source for this kind of stuff. I'll start you off. Oh yeah, its best to read all of it.

Lev. 18:28 – "…that the land spue not you out also when you defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you."

Lev. 20:22-23 – "You will therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out."

Lev.26:27-46 (43) – "The land also will be left of them, and will enjoy her Sabbaths, while she lies desolate without them: and they will accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes."

Deut. 4:25-31 – "…and will do evil in the sight of the Lord your God, to provoke Him to anger: I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto you go over Jordan to possess it; you will not prolong your days upon it, but will utterly be destroyed. And the Lord will scatter you among the nations…"

Deut. 28:63-64 – "…that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nothing; and you will be plucked from off the land whither you go to possess it. And the Lord will scatter you among the people,…"

Deut. 29:24-29 (28) – "…and the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day."

Deut. 30:15-20 (17-18) – "But if your heart turn away – I denounce unto you this day, that you will surely perish, and that you will not prolong your days upon the land, whither you passed over the Jordan to go to possess it."

II Chron. 7:19-22 – "But if you turn away – then will I pluck them up by the roots out of the land which I have given them…"

II Kings 21:8 – "Neither will I make the feet of Israel move out of the land which I gave to their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them."

Jer. 7:5-7 – "If you thoroughly amend your ways and your doings; if you thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbor; if you oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt: then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave your fathers, for ever and ever."

Jer. 16:10-13 – "…Because your fathers have forsaken me, - and you have done worse than your fathers, - therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that you know not, neither you

Conditional Salvation Verses, Non-Specific

Exodus 15:26, "If you — do what is right— I will put none of the diseases on you"

Exodus 19:5, "If you will obey— you shall be My possession"

Leviticus 26, (The whole chapter is excellent.)

Numbers 32:15, "If you turn from following Him, He will once more abandon and destroy"

Deut. 4:29, "If you seek Him, you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul"

Deut. 6:24-25, "It will be righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all this commandment"

Deut. 7:9-15, "He keeps His covenant to those who love Him— but repays those who hate Him"

Deut. 11:13-15, "If you listen obediently— I will give [blessing]— Or else the anger of the Lord will be kindled"

Deut. 11:26-28, "I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse"

Deut. 13:17-18, "The Lord may turn from His burning anger and show mercy— if you listen"

Deut. 15:4-5, "The Lord will bless you— if you listen obediently to observe the commandment"

Deut. 19:8-9, "The Lord enlarges your territory— if you carefully observe this commandment"

Deut. 28:1-68, (The whole chapter is excellent)

Deut. 30:9-20, "The Lord will prosper you— if you obey"

Deut. 31:16-17, "You are about to play the harlot— then I will forsake them"

Joshua 24:19-20, "If you forsake the Lord— He will consume you after He has done good"

1 Samuel 2:30, "who honor me I will honor, and those who despise Me will be lightly esteemed"

1 Samuel 7:3, "If you return— He will deliver you"

1 Samuel 12:14-15, "If you rebel— His hand will be against you"

1 Samuel 12:20-25, "If you still do wickedly, you will be swept away"

1 Kings 3:14, "If you walk in My ways— then I will prolong your days"

1 Kings 6:12-13, "If you walk in My statutes— I will not forsake you"

1 Kings 8:46-52, "When they sin against Thee— Thou dost deliver them to an enemy"

1 Kings 9:4-9, "If you turn away— I will cut off Israel"

1 Kings 11:38, "If you listen and do what is right— I will be with you"

2 Kings 18:11-12, "Assyria carried Israel into exile— because they did not obey"

2 Kings 21:8, "I will not make the feet of Israel wander— if only they observe all I command"

1 Chronicles 28:9, "Seek Him– you find Him— if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever"

2 Chronicles 7:17-22, "If you forsake my statutes— I will uproot you from My land"

2 Chronicles 15:2, "God is with you when you are with Him– forsake Him, He will forsake you"

2 Chronicles 30:8-9, "Serve the Lord, that His burning anger may be turned away from you"

Ezra 8:22, "God is disposed to those who seek Him— His anger against all who forsake Him"

Nehemiah 1:8-9, "If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you"

Isaiah 1:19-20, "If you rebel— you will be devoured with the sword"

Isaiah 1:28, "Those who forsake the Lord shall come to an end"

Isaiah 33:14-15, "Who can dwell with God? He who walks righteously"

Isaiah 65:11-12, "You who forsake God— I will destine you for the sword"

Jeremiah 4:1-4, "If you return— in Him will you glory"

Jeremiah 7:5-7, "If you amend your ways— I will let you dwell in the land"

Jeremiah 12:16-17, "If they will not listen, then I will uproot that nation and destroy it"

Jeremiah 15:19, "If you return, then I will restore you"

Jeremiah 17:24-25, "If you listen attentively to Me— this city will be inhabited forever"

Jeremiah 18:7-10, "If a nation does evil— I will think better of the good I promised"

Jeremiah 22:4-5, "If you will not obey, I swear by Myself that this house will become desolate"

Jeremiah 23:23-24, "You disobeyed— though you were a signet ring on my right hand, yet I would pull you off"

Jeremiah 26:3-6, "Perhaps they will listen and turn— that I may repent of the calamity I plan"

Jeremiah 38:17-18, "If you will [obey]— I will not put you to death"

Jeremiah 42:10-16, "If you will stay, I will build you up and not tear you down"

Ezekiel 18, "The soul who sins shall die" (The whole chapter is excellent)

Ezekiel 33:12-18, "The righteousness of a righteous man will not save him in the day of his sin"

Amos 4:1-2, "You who oppress the poor— they will take you away with fish hooks"

Zechariah 3:7, "If you walk in My ways— you will govern My house"

Matthew 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord'— but he who does the will of God"

Matthew 10:22, "The one who endures to the end will be saved"

Matthew 24:13, "The one who endures to the end, it is he who shall be saved"

Luke 12:47-48, "from everyone who has been given much, much will be r
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/4/2011 3:24:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/4/2011 2:32:08 PM, jharry wrote:
I would start your research in the Bible, it's a pretty good source for this kind of stuff. I'll start you off. Oh yeah, its best to read all of it.

Well your obviously against eternal security. However it would almost seem easy to me to throw out all OT scripture concerning salvation as we are no longer saved by the law but by grace brought by Christ in the NT. Now concerning the NT scriptures, most of what you wrote can be brought into light under context of the chapter/book/writer/time to not be pertaining to eternal salvation, or is actually a proponent. I think I have come to my personal conclusion in Hebrews 6:4-6

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

This may actually at first read like it is against eternal security but I believe it holds the very answer in the reality of the existence of eternal security. Enjoy!
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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10/5/2011 12:14:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
were do you stand on the issue of Irresistible grace in context with your stance on Eternal Security

to be consistent I would imagine you have to take the Irresistible salvation of the 'elect' side. after all if you say it cant be rejected after the fact then how could you ever defend it can be resisted before the fact?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/5/2011 12:49:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 12:14:05 PM, Marauder wrote:
were do you stand on the issue of Irresistible grace in context with your stance on Eternal Security

to be consistent I would imagine you have to take the Irresistible salvation of the 'elect' side. after all if you say it cant be rejected after the fact then how could you ever defend it can be resisted before the fact?

Well I do believe you can reject your salvation after you are saved, but I don't think it actually forfeits it. As for irresistible grace, I have no reason to think that it is not 100% of time successful in bringing someone to Christ. And yes I do believe in the elect as written specifically about in scripture, however I am not a believer in predestination. Certain points of Calvanism are correct but I don't follow some of the extremes.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/5/2011 8:13:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I pull my understanding from Hebrews 10

36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For,

"In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay."[f]

38 And,

"But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back."[h]

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

I think this verse 39 like many others summarizes all of Jharry's scripture references.
I think it is clear that as long as it rests on God you are eternally secure. He will always hold up his end. However, if you shrink back that is on you.
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/5/2011 8:26:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Sorry if I don't respond to your listed scriptures, I'm building the case for the debate I started on the subject where I hope to address many of those scriptures used against eternal security.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/6/2011 11:30:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/4/2011 3:24:03 PM, Crede wrote:
At 10/4/2011 2:32:08 PM, jharry wrote:
I would start your research in the Bible, it's a pretty good source for this kind of stuff. I'll start you off. Oh yeah, its best to read all of it.

Well your obviously against eternal security. However it would almost seem easy to me to throw out all OT scripture concerning salvation as we are no longer saved by the law but by grace brought by Christ in the NT. Now concerning the NT scriptures, most of what you wrote can be brought into light under context of the chapter/book/writer/time to not be pertaining to eternal salvation, or is actually a proponent. I think I have come to my personal conclusion in Hebrews 6:4-6

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

This may actually at first read like it is against eternal security but I believe it holds the very answer in the reality of the existence of eternal security. Enjoy!

You can throw out the OT (though it would be a shame) if you want but there are plenty of NT scriptures refuting OSAS in context. Good luck on your debate.

On Hebrews.

This letter was to Hebrews. They had converted and were suffering great persecution because of it. This letter was a warning to those that were considering reverting under the pressure. In context.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/6/2011 6:29:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This letter was to Hebrews. They had converted and were suffering great persecution because of it. This letter was a warning to those that were considering reverting under the pressure. In context.

I addressed this scripture in the debate, check it out if you like.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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10/6/2011 6:32:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 11:30:22 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/4/2011 3:24:03 PM, Crede wrote:
At 10/4/2011 2:32:08 PM, jharry wrote:
I would start your research in the Bible, it's a pretty good source for this kind of stuff. I'll start you off. Oh yeah, its best to read all of it.

Well your obviously against eternal security. However it would almost seem easy to me to throw out all OT scripture concerning salvation as we are no longer saved by the law but by grace brought by Christ in the NT. Now concerning the NT scriptures, most of what you wrote can be brought into light under context of the chapter/book/writer/time to not be pertaining to eternal salvation, or is actually a proponent. I think I have come to my personal conclusion in Hebrews 6:4-6

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

This may actually at first read like it is against eternal security but I believe it holds the very answer in the reality of the existence of eternal security. Enjoy!

You can throw out the OT (though it would be a shame) if you want but there are plenty of NT scriptures refuting OSAS in context. Good luck on your debate.

On Hebrews.

This letter was to Hebrews. They had converted and were suffering great persecution because of it. This letter was a warning to those that were considering reverting under the pressure. In context.

christians love to throw out the old testament, something the actual historical Jesus actually was a firm beleiver in.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Crede
Posts: 455
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10/6/2011 6:49:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
christians love to throw out the old testament, something the actual historical Jesus actually was a firm beleiver in.

Don't take it out of context, I was referring to the Law. The OT is just as much scripture and of God as the NT is. Christians know this so please don't think that we don't. In the OT you were kept in God's love by the Law whereas the NT keeps you by grace.
jharry
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10/7/2011 9:26:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 6:49:05 PM, Crede wrote:
christians love to throw out the old testament, something the actual historical Jesus actually was a firm beleiver in.

Don't take it out of context, I was referring to the Law. The OT is just as much scripture and of God as the NT is. Christians know this so please don't think that we don't. In the OT you were kept in God's love by the Law whereas the NT keeps you by grace.

I don't agree with izbo on this, he takes everything out of context, but a large amount of the verses had nothing to do with the Laws. A lot of them were the prophets speaking the Word. And the Word is, if you fall away from ME (God) you will perish.

It seems pretty straight foward and simple to me.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
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10/7/2011 10:55:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 6:29:58 PM, Crede wrote:
This letter was to Hebrews. They had converted and were suffering great persecution because of it. This letter was a warning to those that were considering reverting under the pressure. In context.

I addressed this scripture in the debate, check it out if you like.

I did. But the only thing i can say without messing up the debate is the verse is incomplete alone. You skipped some verses when you went to God swearing by Himself. The verses you skipped refute OSAS.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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10/7/2011 1:40:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 6:49:05 PM, Crede wrote:
christians love to throw out the old testament, something the actual historical Jesus actually was a firm beleiver in.

Don't take it out of context, I was referring to the Law. The OT is just as much scripture and of God as the NT is. Christians know this so please don't think that we don't. In the OT you were kept in God's love by the Law whereas the NT keeps you by grace.

Actually most historians believe Jesus preached to keep the law. Even matt 5:17-20 proposes this idea. Christians don't follow the historical Jesus, but the Jesus corrupted by Paul, the concept of the Logos, and many other authors and scribes.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Crede
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10/7/2011 3:01:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't agree with izbo on this, he takes everything out of context, but a large amount of the verses had nothing to do with the Laws. A lot of them were the prophets speaking the Word. And the Word is, if you fall away from ME (God) you will perish.

It seems pretty straight foward and simple to me.

Your right, I apologize. However looking at them none of them actually addresses their eternal security in the after-life but can be attributed to the blessings of this life.
jharry
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10/8/2011 12:14:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 3:01:51 PM, Crede wrote:
I don't agree with izbo on this, he takes everything out of context, but a large amount of the verses had nothing to do with the Laws. A lot of them were the prophets speaking the Word. And the Word is, if you fall away from ME (God) you will perish.

It seems pretty straight foward and simple to me.

Your right, I apologize. However looking at them none of them actually addresses their eternal security in the after-life but can be attributed to the blessings of this life.

True, but why do you think it is different? All of the OT points to Christ and salvation.
The symbolism is all over the place. The passing through the Red Sea is now our
baptism. Gods protection over His people depended on them following Him. The Apostles used the OT to show what Jesus did and is doing.

Add that with the NT verses you have a perfect line from Abraham to Jesus. Nothing has changed in our salvation. King David was saved after he committed adultery and murder. He was saved by Faith and his confession. Without the confession and repentance his Faith would be dead. But he knew God and asked for mercy. God said he was saved. This is before Jesus, but he had to wait for the promise God made to Abraham. He knew God would not allow him to see eternal death and he confessed that thousands of years before Christ.

God always intended to restore what was destroyed by the action of Adam. God spoke of it the day it happened. Jesus restored perfection which was lost. Our faith has and always will save us, as long as we keep that Faith and not throw it to the pigs.

But i won't say anymore until after your debate.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/8/2011 12:24:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The law is not what is written on page. That is not the law, that is man's attempt to translate the REAL law onto paper.

God's law is manifest in nature. It can not be communicated accurately in human words.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Crede
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10/8/2011 12:31:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
True, but why do you think it is different? All of the OT points to Christ and salvation.
The symbolism is all over the place. The passing through the Red Sea is now our
baptism. Gods protection over His people depended on them following Him. The Apostles used the OT to show what Jesus did and is doing.

Add that with the NT verses you have a perfect line from Abraham to Jesus. Nothing has changed in our salvation. King David was saved after he committed adultery and murder. He was saved by Faith and his confession. Without the confession and repentance his Faith would be dead. But he knew God and asked for mercy. God said he was saved. This is before Jesus, but he had to wait for the promise God made to Abraham. He knew God would not allow him to see eternal death and he confessed that thousands of years before Christ.

God always intended to restore what was destroyed by the action of Adam. God spoke of it the day it happened. Jesus restored perfection which was lost. Our faith has and always will save us, as long as we keep that Faith and not throw it to the pigs.

But i won't say anymore until after your debate.

lol, alright. I have stuff to say about it but I'll wait till the end of the debate as well. Thanks for your input though, it's nice to hear somebody else versed in scripture.
izbo10
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10/8/2011 9:18:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 3:01:51 PM, Crede wrote:
I don't agree with izbo on this, he takes everything out of context, but a large amount of the verses had nothing to do with the Laws. A lot of them were the prophets speaking the Word. And the Word is, if you fall away from ME (God) you will perish.

It seems pretty straight foward and simple to me.

Your right, I apologize. However looking at them none of them actually addresses their eternal security in the after-life but can be attributed to the blessings of this life.

I love the out of context claim it is truly a show that you don't have an argument.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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10/8/2011 3:23:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/4/2011 1:19:28 AM, Crede wrote:
I have been trying to decide on if I should debate this topic or not so I figured I'd feel it out in a thread. For those of you who don't know what eternal security is regarding then I shall explain. Eternal security is a Christian idea that once you are saved (accept Christ as your Lord and Savior and have become born again) then you can never lose that salvation. You can't lose it by any external force, and you cannot denounce it yourself.

Thoughts.....:

If that were true, Jesus would not have parables like the Parable of the Sower and there wouldn't be scripture like, but not limited to,

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." -- Hebrews 6:4-6

Not only does this suggest that you can lose your salvation, but that it's IMPOSSIBLE to get it back once it is lost.
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Calvincambridge
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10/8/2011 9:13:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No blasphemy of the holy spirit and changing religions will make you lose your security.
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Crede
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10/8/2011 10:50:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Not only does this suggest that you can lose your salvation, but that it's IMPOSSIBLE to get it back once it is lost.

I addressed this very scripture in the debate. If you haven't read it thus far check it out. If you have read it and think that there is something missing let me know.
phantom
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10/8/2011 10:58:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I personally don't think the once saved always saved belief is biblical.

Here's the debate that changed my mind.

http://www.debate.org...
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Crede
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10/8/2011 11:19:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 10:58:22 PM, phantom wrote:
I personally don't think the once saved always saved belief is biblical.

Here's the debate that changed my mind.

http://www.debate.org...

Well hopefully my debate will change it back!