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Debunking GodSands categorically

Kleptin
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5/3/2009 7:29:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
GodSands has done me the honor of presenting his great work, a 9 page paper on why Atheism is merely a middle ground between christianity and satanism. In this paper, he presents "facts". I shall now categorically debunk each and every single point he brings forth in that "paper". I hope that we all learn a little something.

His paper is divided into the following sections:

1. An introduction about his qualifications and past
2. A list of preliminary arguments detailing "absurdities" with abiogenesis and cosmology.
3. Religious rant on Christianity, Satanism, and Atheism
4. Attack on Evolution and related topics
5. A combination of 3 and 4
6. Summation proof of 3,4,5 mixed together
7. Conspiracy theory-like conclusion.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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5/3/2009 7:29:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
PART ONE: THE INTRODUCTION

1. The hypothesis on Christians and Satanists is clear. Atheists are only in-between.

This is going to be amusing.

2. I am going to begin by starting with some history on my self on how I got to a conclusion on this unfamiliar concept of knowledge and understanding. You will find this the most correct and logical explanation for why atheists have yet no answer or meaning to the universe and life.

Atheists do not believe in an inherent answer or meaning that is spelled out in black and white.

3. Around 7 months ago, I joined a site named "debate.com" now known as "debate.org". As a steady believer in Christ and God I started research on evolution, the big bang and God plus many more theories and topics.

And you have absolutely nothing to show for it. Your ignorance has been proven time and time again.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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5/3/2009 7:30:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
PART TWO: THE DISCUSSION ON SCIENTIFIC "ABSURDITIES"

1. Through a Christian ministries led by Ray Comfort and Kirk Carmon, their street preaching and teaching brought me to Christ properly and that I knew God existed for real with no questioning on my personal faith.

Violation of science #1, one does not approach the truth with the conclusion in mind.

2. At the same time I was studying evolution and the big bang theory. Through ministries' of Kent Hovind, who is a creation scientist, and was a science teacher for 12 years on physics.

Violation of science #2, Kent Hovind is not a scientist

3. "Why in evolution does it take none living matter, like a rock or mud to turn into living cells

Violation of science #3, Evolution is not responsible for abiogenesis and the rules for evolution have absolutely nothing to do with abiogenesis.

4. within a base time scale of seconds

Violation of science #4, abiogenesis into anything remotely similar to life did not take seconds, it took millions of years.

5. when creatures, which are alive take millions of years to evolve, when the biggest step in evolution is being resurrected?"

Violation of science #5, resurrection is not the biggest step on evolution. Jesus is not the most evolved life form, resurrection has nothing to do with evolution and may even be evolutionarily harmful.

6. It's either not alive or it is.

Violation of science #6, things can be on the fence between living and non-living. Viruses are an example.

7. I now know that quantum physics shows that the smallest measurement of time is 10 to the power of – 45 before time no longer exists.

Violation of science #7, quantum physics has determined that at 10^-45, one cannot effectively measure physical change in time. Not that time ceases to exist.

8. As time is so minimized it can not fit and be contained in this finite universe.

Violation of science #8, time is not a physical thing contained within the universe.

9. This goes for mass, shape, angle, length, and weight, apart from they will dismiss their properties like weight from existence in this finite universe at the number of 10 to the power of – 32.

Violation of science #9, at this point, it has been shown that *detection* is impossible, not existence. There is a sharp difference between what we can experience and what is there. GodSands, being a Christian, should understand this concept.

10. This amazed physics in 1982 and shows we live in a digital universe like in a T.V. box set. When you think you can keep cutting matter and time in half for ever, this by far is not the case. The question is who is watching? And who switched this universe on? God of course

Violation of science #10, specifically a logical fallacy. GodSands equates the universe to a Television set in its finite nature, then assumes that it must exhibit the other properties of a television set in that someone is watching and turning it on. Let us say that my friend Pat always has money I can use. I then say my friend Pat is like a wallet. Is Pat then logically made out of leather and stored in my pants pocket? No. GodSands is just illogical.

11. and since my question is on evolution about abiogenist, when none living matter turns into living matter, that we now know that life must have just appeared into existence with no chemical reaction

Violation of science #11, Abiogenesis shows very involved chemical reactions.

12. as there is no chemical reaction needed to dismiss matter from the universe, so why is it needed to add matter? And who is adding the matter? If atheists insist on not accepting God then is its magic.

Violation of science #12, Life is not the presence of additional matter. It is the combination of existing matter in a particular way, abiding by the rules of physics. It is not magic, GodSands is just ignorant.

13. That one thing can appear one minute and then disappears again the next. In the fact that science can not answer what occurred before the big bang

Violation of science #13, what cannot be answered is not necessarily God's doing. Answers have come from what was unanswered for millennia.

14. then it simply must not be scientific as it would in this case need a physical reaction leading to another.

Violation of science #14, cosmological argument. GodSands incorrectly assumes the law of causality is an unbreakable rule because he doesn't understand the definition of a scientific law.

15. For example, I drop a coin and it makes a noise. Quantum physics, in disappears, what makes one think that its science with no chemical reaction?

Violation of science #15, There is no scientific theorem that dictates that sound relates to disappearance. In addition, I have specified above that chemical reactions do occur. GodSands is just building incompetence over incompetence, ignorance over ignorance, and fallacy over fallacy.

16. The big bang so far has not given any clues or anything on what went on before its bang.

Violation of science #16, scientists keep progressing backwards using clues they keep getting from careful study. They are not at a dead end.

17. By now you may be thinking that the big bang is just one macro sized appearance on quantum physics in process. Well I grant you wrong as I will tell why an atheist is puzzled and unsure on why you (Atheist) even exist.

Violation of science #17, specifically a logical fallacy. Ad hominem attack. GodSands is trying to invalidate a scientific principle by alleging that an "atheist" (whom he equates to a scientist) has difficulties understanding principles of his own. These two things are logically unrelated.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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5/3/2009 7:35:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Coming up next: GodSands attempts to prove that Atheists require more faith than Christians do. Feel free to comment on what was discussed so far.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/3/2009 8:02:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/3/2009 8:01:33 PM, GodSands wrote:
Bias, arrogent, misleading, baseless, worthless and foolish, based on sin. Well done. You have detrayed life its self.

Give him credit, he is only reading off your dissertation.
GeoLaureate8
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5/3/2009 8:15:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Kleptin, if you like reading essays, I've got a massive 24 page, illustrated essay you might want to look at.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Kleptin
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5/3/2009 8:27:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/3/2009 8:01:33 PM, GodSands wrote:
Bias, arrogent, misleading, baseless, worthless and foolish, based on sin. Well done. You have detrayed life its self.

Let's make some spelling corrections...

Biased, arrogant, misleading, baseless, worthless and foolish, based on sin. Well done. You have betrayed life itself.

Change two words

Biased, arrogant, misleading, baseless, worthless and foolish, based on ignorance. Well done. You have betrayed knowledge itself.

And here we have the perfect description for your "magnum opus". I told you before that I wanted to see your "9 page work" to "correct you where your teachers have failed". I did not diagnose you incorrectly. You are not an unintelligent person, you are quite intelligent. However, you are filled with either the wrong information, or the assumption that you have information you really don't. You say quite a bit, and you say it intelligently, but it is completely empty and devoid of truth, founded completely on poor rhetoric, confused thinking, and the lies of morons. The rigor with which you say it, the tonality, the rhetoric, there's just something so disgustingly *arrogant* about the attitude and the voice that it makes it very difficult to read.

I can assure the other readers here, his "proof" is essentially a long diatribe of bad logic. Trust me, you're all going to like this. It's nowhere near a modest proof. In this piece, GodSands speaks as if though he is Jesus Christ himself, all-knowing and almighty, come down from the heavens to enlighten poor bewildered atheists who need to be drawn towards Christianity from Satanism. I've read all the arguments but as I have finals, can't respond to them all yet.

I can sum it up using a quote from Shakespeare that my friend, mentor, and role-model once used in his profile:

"A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/3/2009 8:28:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/3/2009 8:15:53 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Kleptin, if you like reading essays, I've got a massive 24 page, illustrated essay you might want to look at.

Haha, save that one. I'll need to finish this one first XD

Though I don't think yours will be quite as ill received, as I don't quite disagree with your viewpoints as much as I find them odd and intriguing.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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5/3/2009 8:35:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
"I can sum it up using a quote from Shakespeare that my friend, mentor, and role-model once used in his profile:

"A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.""

Who do you mean here Kleptin? I can recall this being on someone's profile but can't remember who.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
SportsGuru
Posts: 1,648
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5/3/2009 8:52:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/3/2009 8:35:28 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
"I can sum it up using a quote from Shakespeare that my friend, mentor, and role-model once used in his profile:

"A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.""

Who do you mean here Kleptin? I can recall this being on someone's profile but can't remember who.

Unless someone else used it, Logical-Master.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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5/3/2009 9:24:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/3/2009 9:14:48 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Kudos to Kleptin for such a patience 0_0

Seconded. I'm sure Kleptin's got much more on his plate than reading a 9-page GodSands treatise, and he provided a very thorough critique.

That said...

"Bias, arrogent, misleading, baseless, worthless and foolish, based on sin. Well done. You have detrayed life its self."

Writer's Lesson #1: If you are going to put words onto paper, there are going to be people who don't like what you write. If you ask people to read it, there are going to be people who tell you they don't like it. Hence, if you can't handle criticism without responding like a spoiled idiot, writing is not for you.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/4/2009 7:57:03 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 5/3/2009 9:24:12 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 5/3/2009 9:14:48 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Kudos to Kleptin for such a patience 0_0

Seconded. I'm sure Kleptin's got much more on his plate than reading a 9-page GodSands treatise, and he provided a very thorough critique.

That said...

"Bias, arrogent, misleading, baseless, worthless and foolish, based on sin. Well done. You have detrayed life its self."

Writer's Lesson #1: If you are going to put words onto paper, there are going to be people who don't like what you write. If you ask people to read it, there are going to be people who tell you they don't like it. Hence, if you can't handle criticism without responding like a spoiled idiot, writing is not for you.


Kleptin, your very jugdemental, the whole eassy was not based on one little piece of information I came across on the net, you are so wrapped up in atheism, the worst of all bases, do you not think? Can you not use you brain or mind? In that no matter how far you look and search for an answer for there being no God, you will never find it. Every physical thing has a cause, I can say now you may as well be looking for every, what is the difference from the big bang and the one before? What is the difference from the sun and you computer if there is no God? You can not say there is no God by what man has taught you, and that is all you know, nothing else. So how dare you say my piece of work is with out bases when your entire belief is floorless and crude! With out a God there is nothing, because the universe's whole existence is based on something being, a God.

You hide you belief deep amoung time, and plently of "I don't knows" you belief is riddled of them, infested of lack of understanding. And that is truth. Find an answer to your belief before you hit and break down one that has. My whole report is based on Christian, Atheist and Satanic beliefs, it is based on the make up of the universe and I reordered and gave back the beliefs to the rightful owners.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/4/2009 9:57:26 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 7:57:03 AM, GodSands wrote:
: At 5/3/2009 9:24:12 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 5/3/2009 9:14:48 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Kudos to Kleptin for such a patience 0_0

Seconded. I'm sure Kleptin's got much more on his plate than reading a 9-page GodSands treatise, and he provided a very thorough critique.

That said...

"Bias, arrogent, misleading, baseless, worthless and foolish, based on sin. Well done. You have detrayed life its self."

Writer's Lesson #1: If you are going to put words onto paper, there are going to be people who don't like what you write. If you ask people to read it, there are going to be people who tell you they don't like it. Hence, if you can't handle criticism without responding like a spoiled idiot, writing is not for you.


In a sense Kleptins right, BUT why send it to him of all people?
The only time he ever sounds clever is when he spewing someone elses rubbish. (dirty old Rands for example)
You can tell when he's being himself when he starts name calling and crying out for others to join his side..
The Cross.. the Cross.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/4/2009 11:37:36 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 9:57:26 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
In a sense Kleptins right, BUT why send it to him of all people?
The only time he ever sounds clever is when he spewing someone elses rubbish. (dirty old Rands for example)
You can tell when he's being himself when he starts name calling and crying out for others to join his side..

I'd join willingly, and besides, GodSands wanted him to send that essay. He should have taken the criticism lightly, and then rebuffed it like any other person would. Not call him biased and arrogant.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/4/2009 12:35:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 11:37:36 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/4/2009 9:57:26 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
In a sense Kleptins right, BUT why send it to him of all people?
The only time he ever sounds clever is when he spewing someone elses rubbish. (dirty old Rands for example)
You can tell when he's being himself when he starts name calling and crying out for others to join his side..

I'd join willingly, and besides, GodSands wanted him to send that essay. He should have taken the criticism lightly, and then rebuffed it like any other person would. Not call him biased and arrogant.

Be a man, stand on your own.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Volkov
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5/4/2009 12:38:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 12:35:33 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Be a man, stand on your own.

But DAT, Kleptin is my messiah. Just like you, I must bow down to his non-divine grace.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/4/2009 12:49:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 12:38:26 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/4/2009 12:35:33 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Be a man, stand on your own.

But DAT, Kleptin is my messiah. Just like you, I must bow down to his non-divine grace.

Graceful he aint.. honest you aint.
The Cross.. the Cross.
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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5/4/2009 12:50:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 12:49:53 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/4/2009 12:38:26 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/4/2009 12:35:33 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Be a man, stand on your own.

But DAT, Kleptin is my messiah. Just like you, I must bow down to his non-divine grace.

Graceful he aint.. honest you aint.

An English teacher you are not.
AnimeFanTony
Posts: 1,129
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5/4/2009 12:51:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
An ignorant EnglishMan he is.
Ownership of this account has been transferred from JCMT to I-am-a-panda.
Updates of the next JCMT puppet account pending.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/4/2009 2:12:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 7:57:03 AM, GodSands wrote:
Kleptin, your very jugdemental, the whole eassy was not based on one little piece of information I came across on the net, you are so wrapped up in atheism, the worst of all bases, do you not think? Can you not use you brain or mind? In that no matter how far you look and search for an answer for there being no God, you will never find it. Every physical thing has a cause, I can say now you may as well be looking for every, what is the difference from the big bang and the one before? What is the difference from the sun and you computer if there is no God? You can not say there is no God by what man has taught you, and that is all you know, nothing else. So how dare you say my piece of work is with out bases when your entire belief is floorless and crude! With out a God there is nothing, because the universe's whole existence is based on something being, a God.

You hide you belief deep amoung time, and plently of "I don't knows" you belief is riddled of them, infested of lack of understanding. And that is truth. Find an answer to your belief before you hit and break down one that has. My whole report is based on Christian, Atheist and Satanic beliefs, it is based on the make up of the universe and I reordered and gave back the beliefs to the rightful owners.

I'm going to save this for *after* I finish debunking the rest of your essay. I have an hour or so of free time tonight after I go apartment hunting.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/4/2009 2:15:44 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 5/4/2009 2:12:32 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 5/4/2009 7:57:03 AM, GodSands wrote:
Kleptin, your very jugdemental, the whole eassy was not based on one little piece of information I came across on the net, you are so wrapped up in atheism, the worst of all bases, do you not think? Can you not use you brain or mind? In that no matter how far you look and search for an answer for there being no God, you will never find it. Every physical thing has a cause, I can say now you may as well be looking for every, what is the difference from the big bang and the one before? What is the difference from the sun and you computer if there is no God? You can not say there is no God by what man has taught you, and that is all you know, nothing else. So how dare you say my piece of work is with out bases when your entire belief is floorless and crude! With out a God there is nothing, because the universe's whole existence is based on something being, a God.

You hide you belief deep amoung time, and plently of "I don't knows" you belief is riddled of them, infested of lack of understanding. And that is truth. Find an answer to your belief before you hit and break down one that has. My whole report is based on Christian, Atheist and Satanic beliefs, it is based on the make up of the universe and I reordered and gave back the beliefs to the rightful owners.

I'm going to save this for *after* I finish debunking the rest of your essay. I have an hour or so of free time tonight after I go apartment hunting.


How about you just think Kleptin, you are losing much of my respect.
Kleptin
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5/4/2009 2:21:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 2:15:44 PM, GodSands wrote:
How about you just think Kleptin, you are losing much of my respect.

We have two very different definitions of the word "think". What I'm doing now is pitting those two definitions against each other. This little work of yours is such a brazen combination of arrogant and ignorant that I won't let it stand.

Let me assure you GodSands, that when I pit my "thinking" against yours, you'll see a spectacular cloud of dust where your illogical garbage once stood.

As for respect? I don't need your respect. I never did, and I don't think I want it. I don't think you have the capacity to respect intelligent people.

Now if you will excuse me, I am going to rest from my two finals today with a short walk and a visit to this nice apartment I'm looking at, and shall return to decimate the rest of your "essay".

And just as a notice to everyone else.

I am but just one person, but I humbly request that if you see any post that seems irrelevant or useless towards this discussion, please ignore it instead of feeding trolls.

Much thanks.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/4/2009 2:30:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 5/4/2009 2:21:53 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 5/4/2009 2:15:44 PM, GodSands wrote:
How about you just think Kleptin, you are losing much of my respect.

We have two very different definitions of the word "think". What I'm doing now is pitting those two definitions against each other. This little work of yours is such a brazen combination of arrogant and ignorant that I won't let it stand.

Let me assure you GodSands, that when I pit my "thinking" against yours, you'll see a spectacular cloud of dust where your illogical garbage once stood.

As for respect? I don't need your respect. I never did, and I don't think I want it. I don't think you have the capacity to respect intelligent people.

Now if you will excuse me, I am going to rest from my two finals today with a short walk and a visit to this nice apartment I'm looking at, and shall return to decimate the rest of your "essay".

And just as a notice to everyone else.

I am but just one person, but I humbly request that if you see any post that seems irrelevant or useless towards this discussion, please ignore it instead of feeding trolls.

Much thanks.


I care no more, do as you wish. Wimper on and on why not. Jesus is the only one that can save you.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/4/2009 2:32:17 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/4/2009 2:30:42 PM, GodSands wrote:
I care no more, do as you wish. Wimper on and on why not. Jesus is the only one that can save you.

Actually, at this point, the second coming of Jesus is the only thing that can save you.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/4/2009 2:39:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 5/4/2009 2:32:17 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/4/2009 2:30:42 PM, GodSands wrote:
I care no more, do as you wish. Wimper on and on why not. Jesus is the only one that can save you.

Actually, at this point, the second coming of Jesus is the only thing that can save you.


Kleptin is writting this to all because it poses threat, no one has really read it at all. And because of its truth, which he hates you his releasing his angre on to debate.org. No one has even read the thing, he has not been fair on the critisim that he normally is. And there is a lot of negitivity coming from him right now.