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Aneristic Principle and Eristic Principle

CosmicAlfonzo
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10/10/2011 8:10:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Since I've been asked by a couple people already about the ways of Discordia, I figure I'll attempt to do another topic on it. This one will be a little bit more organized than the last, and actually have something to talk about.

Here is an excerpt from the Principa Discordia that describes a very fundamental part of the philosophy. I was talking to Freedo about philosophy way back a whens, and he was shocked to find out that I didn't call myself a Discordian at the time, because a lot of the things I talked about were actually contained in the Principa Discordia. After reading it for the first time, I figured that I actually wouldn't mind calling myself a Discordian.

Anyway, without further ado, the excerpt in question....

The Aneristic Principle is that of APPARENT ORDER; the Eristic Principle is that of APPARENT DISORDER. Both order and disorder are man made concepts and are artificial divisions of PURE CHAOS, which is a level deeper that is the level of distinction making.

With our concept making apparatus called "mind" we look at reality through the ideas-about-reality which our cultures give us. The ideas-about- reality are mistakenly labeled "reality" and unenlightened people are forever perplexed by the fact that other people, especially other cultures, see "reality" differently. It is only the ideas-about-reality which differ. Real (capital-T True) reality is a level deeper that is the level of concept.

We look at the world through windows on which have been drawn grids (concepts). Different philosophies use different grids.

-2-
A culture is a group of people with rather similar grids. Through a window we view chaos, and relate it to the points on our grid, and thereby understand it. The ORDER is in the GRID. That is the Aneristic Principle.

Western philosophy is traditionally concerned with contrasting one grid with another grid, and amending grids in hopes of finding a perfect one that will account for all reality and will, hence, (say unenlightened westerners) be True. This is illusory; it is what we Erisians call the ANERISTIC ILLUSION. Some grids can be more useful than others, some more beautiful than others, some more pleasant than others, etc., but none can be more True than any other.

DISORDER is simply unrelated information viewed through some particular grid. But, like "relation", no-relation is a concept. Male, like female, is an idea about sex. To say that male-ness is "absence of female-ness", or vice versa, is a matter of definition and metaphysically arbitrary. The artificial concept of no-relation is the ERISTIC PRINCIPLE.

The belief that "order is true" and disorder is false or somehow wrong, is the Aneristic Illusion. To say the same of disorder, is the ERISTIC ILLUSION.

The point is that (little-t) truth is a matter of definition relative to the grid one is using at the moment, and that (capital-T) Truth, metaphysical reality, is irrelevant to grids entirely. Pick a grid, and through it some chaos appears ordered and some appears disordered. Pick another grid, and the same chaos will appear differently ordered and disordered.

Reality is the original Rorschach.


Discuss its sexiness, and I'll attempt to clear up any misconceptions or confusions that result.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/10/2011 8:19:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
When I see that people get this concept, I'll post the next concept that requires an understanding of this to really get.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/11/2011 2:53:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/10/2011 8:10:23 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Since I've been asked by a couple people already about the ways of Discordia,

Shouldn't comedy threads go in personal or misc?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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10/11/2011 3:21:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 2:53:29 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/10/2011 8:10:23 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Since I've been asked by a couple people already about the ways of Discordia,

Shouldn't comedy threads go in personal or misc?

Not if you worship comedy.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/11/2011 3:32:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 2:53:29 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/10/2011 8:10:23 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Since I've been asked by a couple people already about the ways of Discordia,

Shouldn't comedy threads go in personal or misc?

Troll harder.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
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10/11/2011 10:54:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 3:32:19 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 10/11/2011 2:53:29 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/10/2011 8:10:23 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Since I've been asked by a couple people already about the ways of Discordia,

Shouldn't comedy threads go in personal or misc?

Troll harder.

I don't want to steal your limelight Mr Jelly.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/11/2011 12:31:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 10:54:15 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/11/2011 3:32:19 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 10/11/2011 2:53:29 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/10/2011 8:10:23 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Since I've been asked by a couple people already about the ways of Discordia,

Shouldn't comedy threads go in personal or misc?

Troll harder.

I don't want to steal your limelight Mr Jelly.

So let me get this straight.. You've read the OP, and have determined that these are not valid philosophical thoughts? So much so that you dismiss this topic as being nothing but comedy?

Are you retarded?

If you wish to discuss the Aneristic and Eristic principles, do so. If you are incapable of accepting Discordianism as a valid philosophy, and would rather mock it than take part in any meaningful discussion, you are better off not posting.

And if you aren't going to apologize and admit error for being unreasonable and unconducive to an intelligent discussion, I'll ignore any of the vomit that dribbles out of your mouth in this topic.

There is a reason Discordianism presents itself the way it does. It needs to be ridiculous, because it is not a religion in the traditional sense.

Most of the humor in the book is a result of the message it is trying to teach. If you understand the message, you understand why Discordianism is presented the way it is.

The message is not as nonsensical as it leads you to believe. There is a lot of philosophical depth to it, and even if you are incapable of seeing the Truth contained within, you'd be a moron to say that it has no philosophical worth.

It's something you really have to go into with an open mind.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/11/2011 12:46:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 12:31:25 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 10/11/2011 10:54:15 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/11/2011 3:32:19 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 10/11/2011 2:53:29 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/10/2011 8:10:23 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Since I've been asked by a couple people already about the ways of Discordia,

Shouldn't comedy threads go in personal or misc?

Troll harder.

I don't want to steal your limelight Mr Jelly.

So let me get this straight.. You've read the OP,

No

and have determined that these are not valid philosophical thoughts? So much so that you dismiss this topic as being nothing but comedy?

Are you retarded?

1: It came from you.
2: It is about discordia.
3: 1 = Jelly, 2 = Jelly 1+2 = Lots of Jelly.


If you wish to discuss the Aneristic and Eristic principles, do so. If you are incapable of accepting Discordianism as a valid philosophy, and would rather mock it than take part in any meaningful discussion, you are better off not posting.

And if you aren't going to apologize and admit error for being unreasonable and unconducive to an intelligent discussion, I'll ignore any of the vomit that dribbles out of your mouth in this topic.

It is called counter-trolling and it appears to have worked a treat.


There is a reason Discordianism presents itself the way it does. It needs to be ridiculous, because it is not a religion in the traditional sense.

Because it is in the same category as pastafarianism? I understand however that part of the joke is pretending that it has meaning however. It is hilarious well done.


Most of the humor in the book is a result of the message it is trying to teach. If you understand the message, you understand why Discordianism is presented the way it is.

The message is not as nonsensical as it leads you to believe. There is a lot of philosophical depth to it, and even if you are incapable of seeing the Truth contained within, you'd be a moron to say that it has no philosophical worth.

It's something you really have to go into with an open mind.

Honk honk! I've stuck a fish in my pants so I shan't be drafted in the great war! Oooh whats this a cumberbund in the gazebo!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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10/11/2011 2:16:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Isn't science and philosophy continually enlarging and refining the "grids" to the point, where someday, we will have a grid that accounts for True reality?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/11/2011 6:15:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 12:46:55 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote
Mountain of stupidity.

So you didn't read the original post, and now you are claiming to be anti-trolling based on the assumption that Discordianism is a troll philosophy?

No, it is more of a legitimate philosophy than you realize. You mock it because it is presented in a way that is alien to you, and you do not understand it.

From a book of philosophy regarded as being more "serious", I present to you a relevant quote from the Tao Te Ching.

"On hearing of the Way, the best of men
Will earnestly explore its length.
The mediocre person learns of it
And takes it up and sets it down.
But vulgar people, when they hear the news,
Will laugh out loud, and if they did not laugh,
It would not be the Way.

And so there is a proverb:
"When going looks like coming back,
The clearest road is mighty dark."
Today, the Way that's plain looks rough,
And lofty virtue like a chasm;
The purest innocence like shame,
The broadest power not enough,
Established goodness knavery,
Substantial worth like shifting tides.
Great space has no corners;
Great powers come late;
Great music is soft sound;
The great Form no shape.
The Way is obscure and unnamed;
It is a skilled investor, nonetheless,
The master of accomplishment. "

At 10/11/2011 2:16:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Isn't science and philosophy continually enlarging and refining the "grids" to the point, where someday, we will have a grid that accounts for True reality?

I would honestly be surprised if this could happen given the sheer number of variables that are impossible to account for. Discordianism is by no means an anti-science or anti-philosophy way of operating. On the contrary, a Discordian has a profound respect for chaos. Chaos is a very humbling thing.

Even our best scientific formulas need to incorporate these "random" variables.

Yes, there some hipster discordians who probably perpetuate the negative stereotype that C_N seems to have about the philosophy, but it's fine. The absurdities contained within both act as a means to prevent Discordianism from ever being taken seriously enough to become a harmful institution, and to highlight the irony of presenting an anarchistic anti-religion as a religion.

There is a parable related to the Aneristic Principle and the Eristic Principle that relates to this, and it beautifully shows how these human perceptions of order and disorder compliment each other.

Discordianism is actually Zen Buddhism explained to a western audience, Zen Buddhism being a combination of Buddhism and Taoism, as they are both very complimentary philosophies. Unfortunately, a lot of the humor and meaning has been lost in translation and do to time. Just look at how seriously people take Buddhism! It's hardly effective at helping one reach enlightenment anymore, because most people don't even understand it!

The reason I instantly took a liking to Discordianism is because my studies in Eastern Philosophy prepared me in such a way to where I could see that Discordianism actually has a lot more depth than what is being displayed on the surface.

But anyway, sorry for the tangent. Yes, certain grids we place over reality are going to be more accurate, more useful, sexier in composition, etc.. But the point is, by placing a grid over reality we have actually replaced reality with something that symbolizes reality.

This is why I say that objectively, something can only be what it is. This is absolute truth. A tree is not a tree. A tree is not what you think makes up a tree. A tree simply is, and it is not a tree. "Tree" is how way make sense of reality.

Even in mathematics, you deal with this problem. Part of the reason a lot of people are confused by quantum physics is because they can't grasp this concept. This is the reason New Agers like to pervert Quantum Physics into something that becomes supernatural.

So see man, this is all really heavy stuff. It's not as otherworldly and ridiculous as people like to make it. This is truth that anyone could see, it's just a matter of stepping out of the maya.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
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10/11/2011 6:40:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Honk honk fill the bath with custard mother, I am off to fight Napoleon!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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10/12/2011 12:26:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's sort of an unsetteling thought, but I understand the idea. Our apprehension of the external world is one of artificial concepts that map (to a large and, unknown degree) arbitrarily to the external universe.

I suppose it is an open question as to whether or not the external universe (chaos) is infinate our finite. Were it finite, then our grids may one day map accuratly to reality. Though, they would still be grids. I've often thought that one day, to make any furthur progress in our understanding and apprehension of the universe, we would have to eventually rebuild our brain (perhaps digitize them) or at least rely on the apprehension of AI machines that can trancend our limitations. Anyway, I'm optimistic that we will eventually be able to experience reality directly - even if it takes a while to get there.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/12/2011 12:49:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm pretty optimistic about mankind's future. I think it is inevitable that if we do not blow ourselves up, we will create the great Techno Allah who will replace us. Or, you know, we'll create something else that will create Techno Allah... But really, it doesn't matter. Hopefully they'll keep us nice and comfy instead of doing the sensible thing of wiping us out.

ANYWAY! Presenting a parable of creation!

In the beginning there was VOID, who had two daughters; one (the smaller) was that of BEING, named ERIS, and one (the larger) was of NON-BEING, named ANERIS. (To this day, the fundamental truth that Aneris is the larger is apparent to all who compare the great number of things that do not exist with the comparatively small number of things that do exist.)

Eris had been born pregnant, and after 55 years (Goddesses have an unusually long gestation period-- longer even than elephants), Her pregnancy bore the fruits of many things. These things were composed of the Five Basic Elements, SWEET, BOOM, PUNGENT, PRICKLE, and ORANGE. Aneris, however, had been created sterile. When she saw Eris enjoying Herself so greatly with all of the existent things She had borne, Aneris became jealous and finally one day she stole some existent things and changed them into non- existent things and claimed them as her own children. This deeply hurt Eris, who felt that Her sister was unjust (being so much larger anyway) to deny Her her small joy. And so She made herself swell again to bear more things. And She swore that no matter how many of her begotten that Aneris would steal, She would beget more. And, in return, Aneris swore that no matter how many existent things Eris brought forth, she would eventually find them and turn them into non-existent things for her own. (And to this day, things appear and disappear in this very manner.)

At first, the things brought forth by Eris were in a state of chaos and went in every which way, but by the by She began playing with them and ordered some of them just to see what would happen. Some pretty things arose from this play and for the next five zillion years She amused Herself by creating order. And so She grouped some things with others and some groups with others, and big groups with little groups, and all combinations until She had many grand schemes which delighted Her.

Engrossed in establishing order, She finally one day noticed disorder (previously not apparent because everything was chaos). There were many ways in which chaos was ordered and many ways in which it was not.

"Hah," She thought, "Here shall be a new game."

And She taught order and disorder to play with each other in contest games, and to take turns amusing each other. She named the side of disorder after Herself, "ERISTIC" because Being is anarchic. And then, in a mood of sympathy for Her lonely sister, She named the other side "ANERISTIC" which flattered Aneris and smoothed the friction a little that was between them.

Now all of this time, Void was somewhat disturbed. He felt unsatisfied for he had created only physical existence and physical non- existence, and had neglected the spiritual. As he contemplated this, a great Quiet was caused and he went into a state of Deep Sleep which lasted for 5 eras. At the end of this ordeal, he begat a brother to Eris and Aneris, that of SPIRITUALITY, who had no name at all.

When the sisters heard this, they both confronted Void and pleaded that he not forget them, his First Born. And so Void decreed thus:

That this brother, having no form, was to reside with Aneris in Non-Being and then to leave her and, so that he might play with order and disorder, reside with Eris in Being. But Eris became filled with sorrow when She heard this and then began to weep.

"Why are you despondent?" demanded Void, "Your new brother will have his share with you." "But Father, Aneris and I have been arguing, and she will take him from me when she discovers him, and cause him to return to Non- Being." "I see,"replied Void, "Then I decree the following:

"When your brother leaves the residence of Being, he shall not reside again in Non-Being, but shall return to Me, Void, from whence he came. You girls may bicker as you wish, but My son is your Brother and We are all of Myself."

And so it is that we, as men, do not exist until we do; and then it is that we play with our world of existent things, and order and disorder them, and so it shall be that non-existence shall take us back from existence and that nameless spirituality shall return to Void, like a tired child home from a very wild circus.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp