Total Posts:16|Showing Posts:1-16
Jump to topic:

Did God and Noah do unto others in Noah's day

GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 9:41:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Did God and Noah do unto others in Noah's day?

Jesus said that the most important command was to love your neighbor as yourself and do unto others as you would want done to yourself. Scripture also urges us to emulate God as our best way of living. These two injunctions are completely contradictory when we think of when God chooses to punish mankind. He is kicking instead of applying a cure or forgiveness as Jesus would do.

It would seem to me that neither Noah nor the God depicted in this myth, are cut from the same cloth as Jesus was. In fact, they do the opposite of what Jesus would do.

Jesus could not have been around in that days as he would have intervened. As shown in the story of the stoning of the harlot. So much for the trinity concept as well. I never did like the notion of taking Jesus, a good Rabbi, sometimes, and tying him to the genocidal fool of a God of the O T. A complete insult to a good archetypal man.

Jesus is the way --- to believers.
Jesus would not condone Noah's complicity in God's genocidal fit and would therefore have to sentence Noah to hell or death.

If Jesus was around in Noah's day and did nothing, in terms of intervention, he to would be complicit and end in hell, since he could not condone his own lack of action and was breaking his own best advise to do unto others.

Was Jesus, written up the way he was, a goody two shoes, in an effort to usurp the immoral O T God and Noah?

Was he written up as a new and improved God?

What was Jesus doing during God's immoral genocidal fit?

Was he urging God to stop murdering and follow his own law and do unto others?

Regards
DL
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 9:48:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Geneis 6:5

"The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time."

The reason God created the flood was due to the supreme wickedness prevalent in people at the time. The DIFFERENCE however is that this was pure evil. As in, demonic evil.

Genesis 6:1-4

"When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

The reason man was so inexplicably evil was their lineage was tainted with demonic blood. The Grigori (fallen Angels) consorted and corrupted humans. This was not God's intention, so he had only one way to end the lineage. He used Noah to restore mankind's chance of redemption, since the Fallen had no chance for redemption and their actions would similarly condemn all people.

-----

This is my take from what the Bible says. Again, I'm not claiming correctness of religion, but I like to examine the literature.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 11:00:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree with Torres you may need to actually read the text.

It is called a "Strawman" when you just bash some concept that you imagine is a Christian argument.

Realize we have made decisions that are "tough" decisions.

We choose to drop the Bombs on Japan which killed countless innocents.
However, we love innocents to the utmost possible amount.
Both statements are true.

The problem was clear that there was only one way to save the innocent people of america.
That was to dramatically show through massive slaughter that the Japanese emporer was not a God.

Both are true.
I love the innocent children and will do anything humanly possible to aid them.
It is also true that I would have agreed with the bombs being dropped that killed countless innocent children.
I also agree with God making the decision to wipe out all of the Angelic tainted blood lines, including the innocents.

It is my love for innocents that allows for the sacrifice of innocents for a greater cause.

I do not think you are being legitimate to anything that is a real world situation. You are making exceptions along story lines that you are imagining.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 11:09:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Plus, the people tainted with Angelic blood (the Nephilim) were evil in nature. That was their nature: they inherited unforgivable sin because of their forefathers decision to disobey God.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 11:26:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 9:48:16 AM, M.Torres wrote:
Geneis 6:5

"The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time."

The reason God created the flood was due to the supreme wickedness prevalent in people at the time. The DIFFERENCE however is that this was pure evil. As in, demonic evil.

Genesis 6:1-4

"When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

The reason man was so inexplicably evil was their lineage was tainted with demonic blood. The Grigori (fallen Angels) consorted and corrupted humans. This was not God's intention, so he had only one way to end the lineage. He used Noah to restore mankind's chance of redemption, since the Fallen had no chance for redemption and their actions would similarly condemn all people.

-----

This is my take from what the Bible says. Again, I'm not claiming correctness of religion, but I like to examine the literature.

I am in the same position.

The problem with the above is that an omnipotent god would see this trigger for his genocidal fit ahead of time and he would deny access to earth as a brothel for his son's of God.

Even if he did not deny them, with his pocket full of miracles, God would have taken the moral high ground and cured them all instead of killing them all.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 11:31:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 11:00:36 AM, Gileandos wrote:
I agree with Torres you may need to actually read the text.

It is called a "Strawman" when you just bash some concept that you imagine is a Christian argument.

Realize we have made decisions that are "tough" decisions.

We choose to drop the Bombs on Japan which killed countless innocents.
However, we love innocents to the utmost possible amount.
Both statements are true.

The problem was clear that there was only one way to save the innocent people of america.
That was to dramatically show through massive slaughter that the Japanese emporer was not a God.

Both are true.
I love the innocent children and will do anything humanly possible to aid them.
It is also true that I would have agreed with the bombs being dropped that killed countless innocent children.
I also agree with God making the decision to wipe out all of the Angelic tainted blood lines, including the innocents.

It is my love for innocents that allows for the sacrifice of innocents for a greater cause.

I do not think you are being legitimate to anything that is a real world situation. You are making exceptions along story lines that you are imagining.

You compare man, without miracles, to God who has all he needs to take the moral high ground. Yet he did not.

Good of you to think that the innocent should pay for the guilty.
Piss poor justice that.
Your morals suck just as badly as your God's.

Regards
DL
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 11:57:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 11:31:13 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/13/2011 11:00:36 AM, Gileandos wrote:
I agree with Torres you may need to actually read the text.

It is called a "Strawman" when you just bash some concept that you imagine is a Christian argument.

Realize we have made decisions that are "tough" decisions.

We choose to drop the Bombs on Japan which killed countless innocents.
However, we love innocents to the utmost possible amount.
Both statements are true.

The problem was clear that there was only one way to save the innocent people of america.
That was to dramatically show through massive slaughter that the Japanese emporer was not a God.

Both are true.
I love the innocent children and will do anything humanly possible to aid them.
It is also true that I would have agreed with the bombs being dropped that killed countless innocent children.
I also agree with God making the decision to wipe out all of the Angelic tainted blood lines, including the innocents.

It is my love for innocents that allows for the sacrifice of innocents for a greater cause.

I do not think you are being legitimate to anything that is a real world situation. You are making exceptions along story lines that you are imagining.

You compare man, without miracles, to God who has all he needs to take the moral high ground. Yet he did not.

Good of you to think that the innocent should pay for the guilty.
Piss poor justice that.
Your morals suck just as badly as your God's.

Regards
DL

So you are saying you would not dropped the bombs? You would have instead sacrificed innocent american fathers and men in a trade for the innocent children of an evil culture who would have grown up to believe what their fathers believed?

You are not making sense. An innocent was going to die. The question is clear. Which innocent?

You are just spewing accusations like a garden hose. I have seen no meaningful response as yet from any of your posts.
Diagoras
Posts: 187
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 1:52:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So when god changed his mind about how to treat people, was he perfect then, or is he perfect now? Because you can't logically say that both were perfect.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 2:23:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 11:31:13 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/13/2011 11:00:36 AM, Gileandos wrote:
I agree with Torres you may need to actually read the text.

It is called a "Strawman" when you just bash some concept that you imagine is a Christian argument.

Realize we have made decisions that are "tough" decisions.

We choose to drop the Bombs on Japan which killed countless innocents.
However, we love innocents to the utmost possible amount.
Both statements are true.

The problem was clear that there was only one way to save the innocent people of america.
That was to dramatically show through massive slaughter that the Japanese emporer was not a God.

Both are true.
I love the innocent children and will do anything humanly possible to aid them.
It is also true that I would have agreed with the bombs being dropped that killed countless innocent children.
I also agree with God making the decision to wipe out all of the Angelic tainted blood lines, including the innocents.

It is my love for innocents that allows for the sacrifice of innocents for a greater cause.

I do not think you are being legitimate to anything that is a real world situation. You are making exceptions along story lines that you are imagining.

You compare man, without miracles, to God who has all he needs to take the moral high ground. Yet he did not.

Good of you to think that the innocent should pay for the guilty.
Piss poor justice that.
Your morals suck just as badly as your God's.

Regards
DL

Okay. Look. Let's assume God is omniscient. He is aware of all the good choices and bad choices he must make in order to protect his creation - which he loves, according to the Bible.

Now, the one catch is that an extension of this love is to grant his rational creatures free will. His most rational creatures are the angels and man (I'm assuming in this case which was discussed elsewhere that angels have free will in order for them to properly worship God).

God designed the angels to be holy, and to reside with him in heaven but he had to give them free will. God designed man to be of the earth, and have free will.

Here lies the difference. The angels CHOSE to rebel God (extension of free will) to try and defy God. This is pure evil BECAUSE the angels are made of the same holy essence of heaven. They cannot be shades of grey because it was not their nature. God created the angels with free will to love him, but even then angels decided to defy him which is why they are fully condemned.

Humans don't reside in heaven, and only know of earthly matters they experience. God can influence them, but humans must be of this world (I'm pretty sure Jesus says this somewhere). Therefore, when they choose to defy God, it is due to ignorance and not due to pure evil. Ignorance results in evil in man, spurred by what is PURE evil (i.e., Satan and all the demons).

Therefore, when their blood mixed, God could not save those of their lineage but he decided to give Noah (who was not a Nephilim) a chance to restore the human race. That is the reason for the flood, and the reason for the genocide. The genocide of HOLY beings, and not mortal ones.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 3:14:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 11:57:28 AM, Gileandos wrote:
So you are saying you would not dropped the bombs? You would have instead sacrificed innocent american fathers and men in a trade for the innocent children of an evil culture who would have grown up to believe what their fathers believed?

You are not making sense. An innocent was going to die. The question is clear. Which innocent?

You are just spewing accusations like a garden hose. I have seen no meaningful response as yet from any of your posts.

God is at issue. Not man.

Does man have the same power to decide whether to kill or cure? No.

Get with the issue in the O P or get lost.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 3:22:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 2:23:55 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Therefore, when their blood mixed, God could not save those of their lineage but he decided to give Noah (who was not a Nephilim) a chance to restore the human race. That is the reason for the flood, and the reason for the genocide. The genocide of HOLY beings, and not mortal ones.

LOL. Satan and angels and flying pigs. Yep. All real.

A piss poor way to treat HOLY beings.

Then again, if you want to include God as one of the HOLY beings to die, then I am there for that.

Thanks for making an insane story even more insane.

Regards
DL
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 3:32:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 3:22:31 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/13/2011 2:23:55 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Therefore, when their blood mixed, God could not save those of their lineage but he decided to give Noah (who was not a Nephilim) a chance to restore the human race. That is the reason for the flood, and the reason for the genocide. The genocide of HOLY beings, and not mortal ones.

LOL. Satan and angels and flying pigs. Yep. All real.

A piss poor way to treat HOLY beings.

Then again, if you want to include God as one of the HOLY beings to die, then I am there for that.

Thanks for making an insane story even more insane.

Regards
DL

I fail to understand. Within the reality of the story, it makes sense. Obviously I recognize none as "real", but I am interested in the mythology.

Besides, they were once holy, but are not holy any longer - hence why they are demons.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 3:38:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 3:32:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 10/13/2011 3:22:31 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/13/2011 2:23:55 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Therefore, when their blood mixed, God could not save those of their lineage but he decided to give Noah (who was not a Nephilim) a chance to restore the human race. That is the reason for the flood, and the reason for the genocide. The genocide of HOLY beings, and not mortal ones.

LOL. Satan and angels and flying pigs. Yep. All real.

A piss poor way to treat HOLY beings.

Then again, if you want to include God as one of the HOLY beings to die, then I am there for that.

Thanks for making an insane story even more insane.

Regards
DL

I fail to understand. Within the reality of the story, it makes sense. Obviously I recognize none as "real", but I am interested in the mythology.

Besides, they were once holy, but are not holy any longer - hence why they are demons.

If it makes sense to you then explain, how does an omnipotent being suddenly regret anything he had ever done? Is he not supposed to be perfect and all knowing?

Regards
DL
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 3:59:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 3:38:32 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/13/2011 3:32:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 10/13/2011 3:22:31 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/13/2011 2:23:55 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Therefore, when their blood mixed, God could not save those of their lineage but he decided to give Noah (who was not a Nephilim) a chance to restore the human race. That is the reason for the flood, and the reason for the genocide. The genocide of HOLY beings, and not mortal ones.

LOL. Satan and angels and flying pigs. Yep. All real.

A piss poor way to treat HOLY beings.

Then again, if you want to include God as one of the HOLY beings to die, then I am there for that.

Thanks for making an insane story even more insane.

Regards
DL

I fail to understand. Within the reality of the story, it makes sense. Obviously I recognize none as "real", but I am interested in the mythology.

Besides, they were once holy, but are not holy any longer - hence why they are demons.

If it makes sense to you then explain, how does an omnipotent being suddenly regret anything he had ever done? Is he not supposed to be perfect and all knowing?

Regards
DL

Why do you put a sig in every post...?

An omnipotent being knows what will happen. Therefore he must follow the set course, regardless of their impacts. Therefore, God would follow his actions since he knows he cannot alter them because he knows what is to come.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
Diagoras
Posts: 187
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 4:14:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 3:59:19 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 10/13/2011 3:38:32 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/13/2011 3:32:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 10/13/2011 3:22:31 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/13/2011 2:23:55 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Therefore, when their blood mixed, God could not save those of their lineage but he decided to give Noah (who was not a Nephilim) a chance to restore the human race. That is the reason for the flood, and the reason for the genocide. The genocide of HOLY beings, and not mortal ones.

LOL. Satan and angels and flying pigs. Yep. All real.

A piss poor way to treat HOLY beings.

Then again, if you want to include God as one of the HOLY beings to die, then I am there for that.

Thanks for making an insane story even more insane.

Regards
DL

I fail to understand. Within the reality of the story, it makes sense. Obviously I recognize none as "real", but I am interested in the mythology.

Besides, they were once holy, but are not holy any longer - hence why they are demons.

If it makes sense to you then explain, how does an omnipotent being suddenly regret anything he had ever done? Is he not supposed to be perfect and all knowing?

Regards
DL

Why do you put a sig in every post...?

An omnipotent being knows what will happen. Therefore he must follow the set course, regardless of their impacts. Therefore, God would follow his actions since he knows he cannot alter them because he knows what is to come.

If he can't control his own actions, he is not very omnipotent.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 5:34:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 3:59:19 PM, M.Torres wrote:
An omnipotent being knows what will happen. Therefore he must follow the set course, regardless of their impacts. Therefore, God would follow his actions since he knows he cannot alter them because he knows what is to come.

I see. So God has no free will to change his own plan.

Good enough.
He had no choice then but become a genocidal maniac without morals.

Regards
DL