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A really hard question on Satan and deception

GreatestIam
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10/19/2011 1:12:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A really hard question on Satan and deception.

You all know that I always have answers for everything but these ones have me stumped.
That or Satan is deceiving me. How could I know?

If angels have free will, why has one never shown themselves?

There are apparently good angels and evil angels that have been renamed as demons.

If either of these showed itself, we could not distinguish it from God himself. No one has ever seen God.

Would we accept it as God and be deceived?

After all, it is said by God that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world.
Knowing this, and knowing that most of the world belongs to one religion or another. It follows that most people in these religions have been deceived.

How then can believers be so sure that they follow the right God?
As scripture indicates that most if not all will be following the wrong God thanks to deception.

Are you somehow immune to Satan, who can deceive the whole world?
If atheists are deceived, then there really is a God.
If believers are deceived, then there really is no God.

If a believer, how do you get around this catch 22.

Are morals the only good way around it?

If so, then if you are a believer that believes that Sodom or the genocide of Noah's day is good justice, does that mean that you have been deceived?

Because on the face of it, since non believers are a minority and think it evil, then you, as part of the majority and think it good, must be wrong.

Is genocide then a good thing or an evil thing?
Careful, you have definitely been deceived if God was right. Satan has deceived you.

Regards
DL
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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10/19/2011 2:21:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 1:12:14 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
A really hard question on Satan and deception.

You all know that I always have answers for everything but these ones have me stumped.
That or Satan is deceiving me. How could I know?

If angels have free will, why has one never shown themselves?

There are apparently good angels and evil angels that have been renamed as demons.

If either of these showed itself, we could not distinguish it from God himself. No one has ever seen God.

Would we accept it as God and be deceived?

After all, it is said by God that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world.
Knowing this, and knowing that most of the world belongs to one religion or another. It follows that most people in these religions have been deceived.

How then can believers be so sure that they follow the right God?
As scripture indicates that most if not all will be following the wrong God thanks to deception.

Are you somehow immune to Satan, who can deceive the whole world?
If atheists are deceived, then there really is a God.
If believers are deceived, then there really is no God.

If a believer, how do you get around this catch 22.

Are morals the only good way around it?

If so, then if you are a believer that believes that Sodom or the genocide of Noah's day is good justice, does that mean that you have been deceived?

Because on the face of it, since non believers are a minority and think it evil, then you, as part of the majority and think it good, must be wrong.

Is genocide then a good thing or an evil thing?
Careful, you have definitely been deceived if God was right. Satan has deceived you.

Regards
DL

Have you ever heard people say that Satan's best scheme is to manipulate the world so greatly that the world no longer believe that Satan exists? Satan's best tactic is just that.

People have seen angels and demons, ghosts are demons in all cases according to Christian doctrine. And angels have been seen by men, they are claimed for be around 20ft tall, and I am unsure if they posses wings.

People have also seen God, Moses for example when God was giving him the Ten Commandments. Mosses face was shining brightly because he looked at God.

So called 'believers' are deceived according to Matthew 7:21-23. They aren't actually believers, but these people believe that they are believers, instead of really being one.

In religion, such as Islam or Hinduism, being a believer in my view is just the same as taking a joyful interested in the religion. By that I mean, someone who commits themselves to the religion in a practical and mental way, and thus by such, they are defined as a believer in their chosen religion.

And so by that, yes they are being deceived by Satan.

Atheists are being deceived the most in terms of Christian doctrine, they are being deceived by the core deception, that there is no God. And the Bible states that a belief in God, that He exists is the beginning of wisdom, as in it is the first step in the ladder of true, meaningful wisdom. Not ungodly wisdom that will leave you shaking the snake out of your boot.

Are morals the only good way around? Around not being deceived? If that is what you mean then no. In fact, relying on morality and self merit does no good. That is religion in short, excluding a watchful eye of course. And as we all know, know what is perfect in morality, so what are you trying to reach given that you have already fallen? Fallen as in, no matter what you do now, in trying to regain glory or perfection, it is impossible to achieve. Religion teaches that by trying, that is enough. And for trying you are given what you do not deserve.

However Satan has indeed deceived the world, through various means. The theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, and even down to petty things like Santa Claus having a hold on children.

Further yet, Satan is also deceiving many through the UFO phenomenon. I haven't time to explain this particular point, by I would suggest you look into it carefully.
googlemabob
Posts: 16
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10/19/2011 3:02:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
See, as a non-believer, I do not believe in Satan, and therefore I believe that none have ever been deceived by him, because he doesn't exist. In actuality, people are deceived by their own limited world-view, and by their quest for happiness.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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10/19/2011 6:03:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 3:02:13 PM, googlemabob wrote:
See, as a non-believer, I do not believe in Satan, and therefore I believe that none have ever been deceived by him, because he doesn't exist. In actuality, people are deceived by their own limited world-view, and by their quest for happiness.

Perhaps that is just what Satan wants you to think and believe? I don't know, I'm just putting that out there for you to...think about.
Diagoras
Posts: 187
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10/19/2011 7:46:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 6:03:00 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 10/19/2011 3:02:13 PM, googlemabob wrote:
See, as a non-believer, I do not believe in Satan, and therefore I believe that none have ever been deceived by him, because he doesn't exist. In actuality, people are deceived by their own limited world-view, and by their quest for happiness.

Perhaps that is just what Satan wants you to think and believe? I don't know, I'm just putting that out there for you to...think about.

The little voices in your head are not god, they are signs that you are crazy, please don't reproduce.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/19/2011 7:51:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 7:46:19 PM, Diagoras wrote:
At 10/19/2011 6:03:00 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 10/19/2011 3:02:13 PM, googlemabob wrote:
See, as a non-believer, I do not believe in Satan, and therefore I believe that none have ever been deceived by him, because he doesn't exist. In actuality, people are deceived by their own limited world-view, and by their quest for happiness.

Perhaps that is just what Satan wants you to think and believe? I don't know, I'm just putting that out there for you to...think about.

The little voices in your head are not god, they are signs that you are crazy, please don't reproduce.

And I thought this was the work of a productive member. How wrong I was...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
googlemabob
Posts: 16
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10/20/2011 9:34:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 7:46:19 PM, Diagoras wrote:
At 10/19/2011 6:03:00 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 10/19/2011 3:02:13 PM, googlemabob wrote:
See, as a non-believer, I do not believe in Satan, and therefore I believe that none have ever been deceived by him, because he doesn't exist. In actuality, people are deceived by their own limited world-view, and by their quest for happiness.

Perhaps that is just what Satan wants you to think and believe? I don't know, I'm just putting that out there for you to...think about.

The little voices in your head are not god, they are signs that you are crazy, please don't reproduce.

No need to be rude, my friend.

But to respond to GodSands: you could use that argument for anything. It is based in a fairly paranoid worldview. I mean, I could say the FBI was watching my every move with more justifiable evidence than that Satan is constantly deceiving me.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/20/2011 12:11:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 9:34:53 AM, googlemabob wrote:
At 10/19/2011 7:46:19 PM, Diagoras wrote:
At 10/19/2011 6:03:00 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 10/19/2011 3:02:13 PM, googlemabob wrote:
See, as a non-believer, I do not believe in Satan, and therefore I believe that none have ever been deceived by him, because he doesn't exist. In actuality, people are deceived by their own limited world-view, and by their quest for happiness.

Perhaps that is just what Satan wants you to think and believe? I don't know, I'm just putting that out there for you to...think about.

The little voices in your head are not god, they are signs that you are crazy, please don't reproduce.

No need to be rude, my friend.

But to respond to GodSands: you could use that argument for anything. It is based in a fairly paranoid worldview. I mean, I could say the FBI was watching my every move with more justifiable evidence than that Satan is constantly deceiving me.

You will find the maturity level here cultivates a level of rudeness and inability to handle criticism of their viewpoints or their persons.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/20/2011 12:29:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 1:12:14 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
A really hard question on Satan and deception.

You all know that I always have answers for everything but these ones have me stumped.
That or Satan is deceiving me. How could I know?

If angels have free will, why has one never shown themselves?
I have met one. What do you mean they have never shown themselves?
They are fourth dimensional beings that reveal themselves in a way in which we can understand.
They have revealed themselves in human history and claimed to be gods of a pantheon.
The Living God defeated them.


There are apparently good angels and evil angels that have been renamed as demons.
Incorrect.
Demons = Nephilim (of human/angelic crossbreed descent) that Died in the flood of Noah.
Falllen Angels = full angels that are evil.


If either of these showed itself, we could not distinguish it from God himself. No one has ever seen God.
Correct. God actively distinguishes himself through allowing his human heirs to be more powerful than demons and fallen angels.
In history the Old gods are angels who pretended to be gods.


Would we accept it as God and be deceived?

After all, it is said by God that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world.
Knowing this, and knowing that most of the world belongs to one religion or another. It follows that most people in these religions have been deceived.

Got it in one.

How then can believers be so sure that they follow the right God?
As scripture indicates that most if not all will be following the wrong God thanks to deception.
By Power. One God and one Religion will be more powerful than any other.


Are you somehow immune to Satan, who can deceive the whole world?

Yes.

If atheists are deceived, then there really is a God.
If believers are deceived, then there really is no God.
No just not "their" God.

If a believer, how do you get around this catch 22.

Are morals the only good way around it?

??

If so, then if you are a believer that believes that Sodom or the genocide of Noah's day is good justice, does that mean that you have been deceived?

We have already discussed this. It is well within the Justice system of Christianity, America and Atheism. It was just to drop the bombs on Japan that killed countless innocents to save the innocents of our culture. We did not cause the evil Japanese culture. We did not raise children into that culture.
However, we were not willing to allow the evil culture to harm our innocents. A greater good was served by the sacrifice of those innocents.


Because on the face of it, since non believers are a minority and think it evil, then you, as part of the majority and think it good, must be wrong.

Is genocide then a good thing or an evil thing?
Careful, you have definitely been deceived if God was right. Satan has deceived you.

Genocide is a good thing when it serves a greater good. Read above.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/20/2011 1:33:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 2:21:05 PM, GodSands wrote:

Have you ever heard people say that Satan's best scheme is to manipulate the world so greatly that the world no longer believe that Satan exists? Satan's best tactic is just that.

People have seen angels and demons, ghosts are demons in all cases according to Christian doctrine. And angels have been seen by men, they are claimed for be around 20ft tall, and I am unsure if they posses wings.

People have also seen God, Moses for example when God was giving him the Ten Commandments. Mosses face was shining brightly because he looked at God.

So called 'believers' are deceived according to Matthew 7:21-23. They aren't actually believers, but these people believe that they are believers, instead of really being one.

In religion, such as Islam or Hinduism, being a believer in my view is just the same as taking a joyful interested in the religion. By that I mean, someone who commits themselves to the religion in a practical and mental way, and thus by such, they are defined as a believer in their chosen religion.

And so by that, yes they are being deceived by Satan.

Atheists are being deceived the most in terms of Christian doctrine, they are being deceived by the core deception, that there is no God. And the Bible states that a belief in God, that He exists is the beginning of wisdom, as in it is the first step in the ladder of true, meaningful wisdom. Not ungodly wisdom that will leave you shaking the snake out of your boot.

Are morals the only good way around? Around not being deceived? If that is what you mean then no. In fact, relying on morality and self merit does no good. That is religion in short, excluding a watchful eye of course. And as we all know, know what is perfect in morality, so what are you trying to reach given that you have already fallen? Fallen as in, no matter what you do now, in trying to regain glory or perfection, it is impossible to achieve. Religion teaches that by trying, that is enough. And for trying you are given what you do not deserve.

However Satan has indeed deceived the world, through various means. The theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, and even down to petty things like Santa Claus having a hold on children.

Further yet, Satan is also deceiving many through the UFO phenomenon. I haven't time to explain this particular point, by I would suggest you look into it carefully.

Eh. No thanks.

"relying on morality and self merit does no good."

This is enough to tell me that I do not want to know what you know.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/20/2011 1:36:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 3:02:13 PM, googlemabob wrote:
See, as a non-believer, I do not believe in Satan, and therefore I believe that none have ever been deceived by him, because he doesn't exist. In actuality, people are deceived by their own limited world-view, and by their quest for happiness.

It may be semantics but I would not say deceived but would say mistaken but we have nothing to argue friend.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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10/20/2011 1:42:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 3:29:37 PM, Diagoras wrote:
I have a bad habit of not believing in things that don't exist.

Bad habit !!!!!!!!!

That is one of my better ones.
The pros usually says probably does not exist.
They do not want to fall into definitive un-provable language the way theist do, when they say, God exists, without being able to prove it.

Know what I mean?

If not, you may enjoy this.

Regards
DL
inferno
Posts: 10,689
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10/20/2011 1:45:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/19/2011 1:12:14 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
A really hard question on Satan and deception.

You all know that I always have answers for everything but these ones have me stumped.
That or Satan is deceiving me. How could I know?

If angels have free will, why has one never shown themselves?

There are apparently good angels and evil angels that have been renamed as demons.

If either of these showed itself, we could not distinguish it from God himself. No one has ever seen God.

Would we accept it as God and be deceived?

After all, it is said by God that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world.
Knowing this, and knowing that most of the world belongs to one religion or another. It follows that most people in these religions have been deceived.

How then can believers be so sure that they follow the right God?
As scripture indicates that most if not all will be following the wrong God thanks to deception.

Are you somehow immune to Satan, who can deceive the whole world?
If atheists are deceived, then there really is a God.
If believers are deceived, then there really is no God.

If a believer, how do you get around this catch 22.

Are morals the only good way around it?

If so, then if you are a believer that believes that Sodom or the genocide of Noah's day is good justice, does that mean that you have been deceived?

Because on the face of it, since non believers are a minority and think it evil, then you, as part of the majority and think it good, must be wrong.

Is genocide then a good thing or an evil thing?
Careful, you have definitely been deceived if God was right. Satan has deceived you.

Regards
DL

Do you really wanna see the devil in person ? No, I dont think you do son.
Anyway, carry on.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/20/2011 1:48:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 12:11:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 10/20/2011 9:34:53 AM, googlemabob wrote:
At 10/19/2011 7:46:19 PM, Diagoras wrote:
At 10/19/2011 6:03:00 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 10/19/2011 3:02:13 PM, googlemabob wrote:
See, as a non-believer, I do not believe in Satan, and therefore I believe that none have ever been deceived by him, because he doesn't exist. In actuality, people are deceived by their own limited world-view, and by their quest for happiness.

Perhaps that is just what Satan wants you to think and believe? I don't know, I'm just putting that out there for you to...think about.

The little voices in your head are not god, they are signs that you are crazy, please don't reproduce.

No need to be rude, my friend.

But to respond to GodSands: you could use that argument for anything. It is based in a fairly paranoid worldview. I mean, I could say the FBI was watching my every move with more justifiable evidence than that Satan is constantly deceiving me.

You will find the maturity level here cultivates a level of rudeness and inability to handle criticism of their viewpoints or their persons.

I do not see the need for a general insult against believers.
They have a heavy enough burden to carry in forcing themselves to believe in fantasy, miracles, magic and Satan's .

Self delusion is hard to maintain so ease up on those poor souls.
You do not want them to fall into the real world. reality is tough sometimes.

Regards
DL
Diagoras
Posts: 187
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10/20/2011 1:50:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 1:45:52 PM, inferno wrote:
At 10/19/2011 1:12:14 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
A really hard question on Satan and deception.

You all know that I always have answers for everything but these ones have me stumped.
That or Satan is deceiving me. How could I know?

If angels have free will, why has one never shown themselves?

There are apparently good angels and evil angels that have been renamed as demons.

If either of these showed itself, we could not distinguish it from God himself. No one has ever seen God.

Would we accept it as God and be deceived?

After all, it is said by God that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world.
Knowing this, and knowing that most of the world belongs to one religion or another. It follows that most people in these religions have been deceived.

How then can believers be so sure that they follow the right God?
As scripture indicates that most if not all will be following the wrong God thanks to deception.

Are you somehow immune to Satan, who can deceive the whole world?
If atheists are deceived, then there really is a God.
If believers are deceived, then there really is no God.

If a believer, how do you get around this catch 22.

Are morals the only good way around it?

If so, then if you are a believer that believes that Sodom or the genocide of Noah's day is good justice, does that mean that you have been deceived?

Because on the face of it, since non believers are a minority and think it evil, then you, as part of the majority and think it good, must be wrong.

Is genocide then a good thing or an evil thing?
Careful, you have definitely been deceived if God was right. Satan has deceived you.

Regards
DL

Do you really wanna see the devil in person ? No, I dont think you do son.
Anyway, carry on.

Seeing god in person will kill you, plus the devil sounds like a lot more fun.
Diagoras
Posts: 187
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10/20/2011 1:53:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 1:42:29 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/19/2011 3:29:37 PM, Diagoras wrote:
I have a bad habit of not believing in things that don't exist.

Bad habit !!!!!!!!!

Theists would call it a bad habit. They want logic to be criminalized.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/20/2011 2:01:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 12:29:25 PM, Gileandos wrote:

We have already discussed this. It is well within the Justice system of Christianity, America and Atheism. It was just to drop the bombs on Japan that killed countless innocents to save the innocents of our culture. We did not cause the evil Japanese culture. We did not raise children into that culture.
However, we were not willing to allow the evil culture to harm our innocents. A greater good was served by the sacrifice of those innocents.


Because on the face of it, since non believers are a minority and think it evil, then you, as part of the majority and think it good, must be wrong.

Is genocide then a good thing or an evil thing?
Careful, you have definitely been deceived if God was right. Satan has deceived you.

Genocide is a good thing when it serves a greater good. Read above.

Find me even one historic record, even from those opposed to the allies of WWII, that call the bombing of two cities in the whole of Japan genocide.

Then we can talk.
Till then, stop talking like a fool.

That bombing was in self defense. Are you saying that God could not defend his super 8 in any other way than destroying the rest of life here?

Why not just move his super 8 and let the earth die of miracle induced sterilization. A much more moral way to get rid of what you yourself created.
That or take the moral high ground and just cure those he thought defective instead of killing them.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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10/20/2011 2:08:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 1:45:52 PM, inferno wrote:

Do you really wanna see the devil in person ? No, I dont think you do son.
Anyway, carry on.

I would not mind. I have a few questions.

Like how did he get God to reward him for his rebellion by giving him dominion of earth.

That and how he manipulates God to do all that killing of children and babies for him.

If you bump into Satan or God, be sure to ask for me.
Please.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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10/20/2011 2:11:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 1:53:15 PM, Diagoras wrote:
At 10/20/2011 1:42:29 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/19/2011 3:29:37 PM, Diagoras wrote:
I have a bad habit of not believing in things that don't exist.

Bad habit !!!!!!!!!

Theists would call it a bad habit. They want logic to be criminalized.

Martin Luther wold agree

"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.

Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has. "

Regards
DL
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/20/2011 3:11:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 2:01:06 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/20/2011 12:29:25 PM, Gileandos wrote:

We have already discussed this. It is well within the Justice system of Christianity, America and Atheism. It was just to drop the bombs on Japan that killed countless innocents to save the innocents of our culture. We did not cause the evil Japanese culture. We did not raise children into that culture.
However, we were not willing to allow the evil culture to harm our innocents. A greater good was served by the sacrifice of those innocents.


Because on the face of it, since non believers are a minority and think it evil, then you, as part of the majority and think it good, must be wrong.

Is genocide then a good thing or an evil thing?
Careful, you have definitely been deceived if God was right. Satan has deceived you.

Genocide is a good thing when it serves a greater good. Read above.

Find me even one historic record, even from those opposed to the allies of WWII, that call the bombing of two cities in the whole of Japan genocide.

Then we can talk.
Till then, stop talking like a fool.

That bombing was in self defense. Are you saying that God could not defend his super 8 in any other way than destroying the rest of life here?

Why not just move his super 8 and let the earth die of miracle induced sterilization. A much more moral way to get rid of what you yourself created.
That or take the moral high ground and just cure those he thought defective instead of killing them.

Regards
DL

You are just making an irrelevant distiction.
You are factually wrong to do so.

What is "bad" about genocide except that you are eliminating countless innocents in a war that is motivated against a cultural or ethnical group?

Dropping the bomb on Japan meets both the requirements. We did not "complete" the genocide but I do not doubt we would have. We would have kept dropping bombs until they relented or they were rendered for all practical purposes non-existent.

Genocide does not need to be effectively completed. It needs only be engaged in. Or your claims against God are factually wrong as well. The Jews never actually eradicated anyone, despite God's command.

The Noadic flood was an evil problem not an anti-human problem and also does not meet the requirements of genocide, 8 survived to re-populate.

The Japanese culture was evil. It taught principles of evil aggression against innocent people.
Their evil culture was destroyed. They relented.