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The Bible is inspired by God. . .

gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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10/24/2011 10:08:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I believe the Bible was inspired by God . . . however, it was written by sinful men. I suppose I need other Christians to explain to me how it is logically possible for sinful men to write a "perfect" document, inspiration or no inspiration.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/24/2011 10:23:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/24/2011 10:08:26 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
I believe the Bible was inspired by God . . . however, it was written by sinful men. I suppose I need other Christians to explain to me how it is logically possible for sinful men to write a "perfect" document, inspiration or no inspiration.

Great question!

First the majority of Christians recognize that these men were "Holy" men.
That is they very very rarely sinned and even more, they were never lead by their sin nature.

They had "effectively" put their flesh to death. It is not to say they did not commit an occasional sin, but that they never sinned willfully and that the Holy Spirit was in such a communication with them that they were able to know that their work was "correct" as they completed it.

If you have the Holy Spirit speaking to you through even illumination and have heard the Holy Spirit's "Gong" you will understand how these Holy men, hand picked by God to lead the Church were able to create the Bible.

This does not mean I agree with the concept of the verbal plenary inspiration of the Word of God in full sense.

I believe that secondary details could easily be mistaken or unknown by the scribes being dictated to by the Apostles.
However, the Holy Spirit ensured the Theological aspects were correctly transcribed.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/24/2011 10:27:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/24/2011 10:08:26 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
I believe the Bible was inspired by God . . . however, it was written by sinful men. I suppose I need other Christians to explain to me how it is logically possible for sinful men to write a "perfect" document, inspiration or no inspiration.

It's logically possible, yeah. In that one could suppose God spoke and the authors wrote down exactly what he spoke by means of divine dictation but that view of inspiration has been widely criticized and, as far as I'm aware, has been relegated to the fringes.

What do you mean by "perfect", anyways, and why would the document need to be perfect in order to be inspired by God?
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Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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10/24/2011 10:34:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/24/2011 10:23:36 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 10/24/2011 10:08:26 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
I believe the Bible was inspired by God . . . however, it was written by sinful men. I suppose I need other Christians to explain to me how it is logically possible for sinful men to write a "perfect" document, inspiration or no inspiration.

Great question!

First the majority of Christians recognize that these men were "Holy" men.
That is they very very rarely sinned and even more, they were never lead by their sin nature.

They had "effectively" put their flesh to death. It is not to say they did not commit an occasional sin, but that they never sinned willfully and that the Holy Spirit was in such a communication with them that they were able to know that their work was "correct" as they completed it.

If you have the Holy Spirit speaking to you through even illumination and have heard the Holy Spirit's "Gong" you will understand how these Holy men, hand picked by God to lead the Church were able to create the Bible.

This does not mean I agree with the concept of the verbal plenary inspiration of the Word of God in full sense.

I believe that secondary details could easily be mistaken or unknown by the scribes being dictated to by the Apostles.
However, the Holy Spirit ensured the Theological aspects were correctly transcribed.

What about David, who the psalms are attributed to but committed adultery and set up a ploy to have his mistress' husband killed in battle?

Also Moses (attributed author of the Pentateuch), who was forbidden entry to the promise land for his doubt/disobedience?

Seems to me that both these men sinned pretty willingly, so what would your take on that be?
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/24/2011 10:49:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/24/2011 10:08:26 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
I believe the Bible was inspired by God . . . however, it was written by sinful men. I suppose I need other Christians to explain to me how it is logically possible for sinful men to write a "perfect" document, inspiration or no inspiration.

There's only one strategy I can think of. Basically, God knows everything. So God knows that, given certain stimuli (input) a given person will respond in a known way (output). So, for any individual, God can produce the necessary stimuli, via "inspiration," which is then processed by the individual to produce the desired response.

It's not as simple as that, as there are (supposed) limitations on what God can do. For example, God can't (or won't) lie. So, if a lie is necessary to produce a desired response from a given person, then God cannot exact that response from that person.

So God must be selective about whom he chooses to inspire. He must choose people such that, given the stimuli God is capable (or willing) to provide, they produce the desired output. So, even if those people are sinful, they still behave in a way known to God and can be exploited to produce his desired ends.

Now, naturally, there are several issues with this:

1. Once this "perfect" work is produced, there is nothing stopping it from being corrupted by any other human.
2. There is no way to tell, a posteriori, whether a given work originates from such a process.
3. The above process is incompatible with Free Will (only a problem involving works that espouse the existence/importance of Free Will).
4. The existence of such people that can be used in the aformentioned manner is not guaranteed. Though you could argue that Jesus is an example of God taking matters into his own hands here, though that would only make works personally authored by Jesus "perfect."
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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10/24/2011 11:43:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/24/2011 10:08:26 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
I believe the Bible was inspired by God . . . however, it was written by sinful men. I suppose I need other Christians to explain to me how it is logically possible for sinful men to write a "perfect" document, inspiration or no inspiration.

Think about why you believe the bible was inspired by God. Did you one day read the bible and think, holy crap, this book is just so amazing the only explanation for its existence is that the author is an all knowing, all powerful all loving being......OR

Some where down the track some one told you the bible is the word of God. Even before you had read the bible you had already formed the view the bible is the world of God. Told by your fellow humans of course.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/24/2011 1:42:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Certainly, the bible was inspired by thoughts of God.

Anyone can write something that is inspired by God. It is simple! Think about God, and write something!

Kids do it all the time in Sunday school.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/24/2011 9:25:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/24/2011 10:34:35 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/24/2011 10:23:36 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 10/24/2011 10:08:26 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
I believe the Bible was inspired by God . . . however, it was written by sinful men. I suppose I need other Christians to explain to me how it is logically possible for sinful men to write a "perfect" document, inspiration or no inspiration.

Great question!

First the majority of Christians recognize that these men were "Holy" men.
That is they very very rarely sinned and even more, they were never lead by their sin nature.

They had "effectively" put their flesh to death. It is not to say they did not commit an occasional sin, but that they never sinned willfully and that the Holy Spirit was in such a communication with them that they were able to know that their work was "correct" as they completed it.

If you have the Holy Spirit speaking to you through even illumination and have heard the Holy Spirit's "Gong" you will understand how these Holy men, hand picked by God to lead the Church were able to create the Bible.

This does not mean I agree with the concept of the verbal plenary inspiration of the Word of God in full sense.

I believe that secondary details could easily be mistaken or unknown by the scribes being dictated to by the Apostles.
However, the Holy Spirit ensured the Theological aspects were correctly transcribed.

What about David, who the psalms are attributed to but committed adultery and set up a ploy to have his mistress' husband killed in battle?

Also Moses (attributed author of the Pentateuch), who was forbidden entry to the promise land for his doubt/disobedience?

Seems to me that both these men sinned pretty willingly, so what would your take on that be?

I would point out the Bible pointed out their sins as well.
When peter was wrong it was also recorded.

However, you will see that the Bible clearly decried David's actions. The Bible never claims that murdering armies to get your "freak on" is not a good thing.

David spent most of his life in direct obedience to God. Where he failed God was actively speaking to David. In fact, some of David's key psalms are repentence psalms. Had David not failed and been and had God's hand against him afterwards those psalms would not have been included. God uses the momentary failures.

Same with Moses, one act of anger caused his not seeing the promised land (he clearly made it to the temple)

As I expressed earlier these men were Holy men not controlled or with rampant sin in their lives. Single instances or periods in their lives God precluded from the Bible, but these actions were recorded as a part of the Bible to teach us even as Holy Men what not to do.
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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10/24/2011 10:35:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/24/2011 11:43:07 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 10/24/2011 10:08:26 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
I believe the Bible was inspired by God . . . however, it was written by sinful men. I suppose I need other Christians to explain to me how it is logically possible for sinful men to write a "perfect" document, inspiration or no inspiration.

Think about why you believe the bible was inspired by God. Did you one day read the bible and think, holy crap, this book is just so amazing the only explanation for its existence is that the author is an all knowing, all powerful all loving being......OR

Some where down the track some one told you the bible is the word of God. Even before you had read the bible you had already formed the view the bible is the world of God. Told by your fellow humans of course.



this in no way changes whether it is the word of God or not. . . and I was told by my fellow humans, and have witnessed first hand.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss