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Re-thinking Church

Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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10/29/2011 11:36:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
at a evanglilizam confrence I got to go to I learned about a movement trying to be done by some churches in my denomination, the movement is called 'ReThink church'

here is there offical website. http://www.rethinkchurch.org...

Basically; as it was explained to me, right now the way the church typically tries to reach out to people and get them to church and active in it is it follows this pattern:

We Invite a seeker to church worship service with us.

Then we invite them to dicipleship after they come

after they come to those we invite them to help serve with us,

then we hope some of those that serve witness and invite more people to church, completeing the church.

But Adam Hamilton suggest we redraw that circle in reverse. Instead of inviting unchurched people to Sunday morning service with us, why dont we instead first invite them to serve with us in something we are doing? during a week your church is doing something like building a playground or replacing a rusted one in the town park you could witness to others by inviting them to come and help out with your church on that project instead of inviting them to sunday worship service first.

The only thing is your church actually has to be doing things that impact the community to invite people to in the first place. and if your church isnt, well thats a problem all in itself that you need to work on even if your not trying to change how you witness to people.

The video really puts it well when it says 'what if church was a verb instead of a building', and for all the body of christ is capable, and called to do, it really should be fighting to make sure our church is considered a 'verb' faster than it is considered just a building.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/29/2011 11:53:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I was part of an atheist group and we did a lot of philanthropy. I'm glad that churches are doing community service. It's good that anybody does it if they have good intentions. I'm not entirely sure that the churches intentions are perfectly pure; it's obviously a method to recruit and not entirely out of the kindness of their hearts, but it certainly is good anyway and I'm sure a lot of the participants genuinely have good intentions. Props to those getting involved. Churches do a lot of work in the community which I think is a very admirable thing.
President of DDO
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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10/30/2011 1:11:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why is there an atheist group? Whatever. My old church has always done things for the community and encourages others to join even if they don't want to show up on Sunday
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/30/2011 5:36:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 1:11:04 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Why is there an atheist group? Whatever. My old church has always done things for the community and encourages others to join even if they don't want to show up on Sunday

I don't quite understand that either.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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10/30/2011 5:48:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree, Danielle. At least when atheists help the homeless they aren't trying to sell them something - they're not holding their sandwich to ransom.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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10/30/2011 7:08:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The approach you suggest in not new, unless you define new as anything in the last 2000 years. The early Christians, pre 300 ce, did little, if any, prostulatising. I am not sue how it will work in a congregation that has an ecclisiology based upon evangelicalism. The method you suggest involves non-judgmental living of the Gospel, absent all the absolutes s prevalent among some "Christians today. In short, your denomination may need an entire rethinking of its theology of Church.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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10/30/2011 12:57:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:48:50 AM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
I agree, Danielle. At least when atheists help the homeless they aren't trying to sell them something - they're not holding their sandwich to ransom.

I don't think you understand what I posted fully. our church is not going out to feed the hungry sandwiches but asking those hungry people to come and join our church. the churches in the UMC that are using the rethink church evangelism set a day on the calendar to go work together at feeding the hungry, and they invite others at there work or there neighbors who they are evangelizing to to come and help feed the hungry.

George Bush did not put the UN at ransom to come and fight a war in the middle east, he told them 'we (the US) are going, yall can come too if you want to'. not 'come and fight with us or we nuke you'

That would be ransom, invitation is not a ransom. the hungry get fed either way, and the churches were feeding them before this movement, and doing community projects before this movement. but on the whole the people we try to get and come and work on community event was pretty much the already churched people. it would go on the back of the bulletin Sunday morning what day and time they were gathering to do the backpack buddies program, ect.... Maybe we might even organize with another local church to work together at picking up trash on a section of road in the community. but the people we are recruiting for help was already 'churched'. the way in general we think about how we address the 'unchurched' was invite them to a Sunday service one day, and then if they come, and if it seems they plan to stay, we encourage them to get active with us in community service projects.

the service project were being done anyway, the inviting others to our church was already being done, 'Rethink church' is just pushing to rearrange what order and method that combination of things are done in. Our beliefs are first and foremost a WAY of life, not just a THOUGHT about it. what better way to show that than not making the primary thing we witness with is not a preachers sermon but our actions in the community?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
RFH
Posts: 56
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10/30/2011 1:18:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/29/2011 11:53:43 PM, Danielle wrote:
I'm not entirely sure that the churches intentions are perfectly pure; it's obviously a method to recruit and not entirely out of the kindness of their hearts

At 10/30/2011 5:48:50 AM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
I agree, Danielle. At least when atheists help the homeless they aren't trying to sell them something - they're not holding their sandwich to ransom.

Let's not question each other's motives. I could just as easily say that atheists only help the homeless to make themselves look good, feel good, or to have an opportunity to convince the target of their charity that God doesn't exist.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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10/30/2011 1:20:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/29/2011 11:36:40 PM, Marauder wrote:
at a evanglilizam confrence I got to go to I learned about a movement trying to be done by some churches in my denomination, the movement is called 'ReThink church'

here is there offical website. http://www.rethinkchurch.org...


Basically; as it was explained to me, right now the way the church typically tries to reach out to people and get them to church and active in it is it follows this pattern:

We Invite a seeker to church worship service with us.

Then we invite them to dicipleship after they come

after they come to those we invite them to help serve with us,

then we hope some of those that serve witness and invite more people to church, completeing the church.

But Adam Hamilton suggest we redraw that circle in reverse. Instead of inviting unchurched people to Sunday morning service with us, why dont we instead first invite them to serve with us in something we are doing? during a week your church is doing something like building a playground or replacing a rusted one in the town park you could witness to others by inviting them to come and help out with your church on that project instead of inviting them to sunday worship service first.

The only thing is your church actually has to be doing things that impact the community to invite people to in the first place. and if your church isnt, well thats a problem all in itself that you need to work on even if your not trying to change how you witness to people.

The video really puts it well when it says 'what if church was a verb instead of a building', and for all the body of christ is capable, and called to do, it really should be fighting to make sure our church is considered a 'verb' faster than it is considered just a building.

I think that is a step in a fantastic direction.

On the other hand, that raises an issue that I have with churches, and evangelical ones especially.

In my opinion, many churches turn people off to Christianity entirely when they approach things evangelically, because it suggests that Christians find something fundamentally wrong with their worldview. Many Christians would retort that they do, but that is not Christian behavior -- it is not our place to judge how people should live their lives. Jesus walked with sinners, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these people changed their ways.

Instead, we tell them how we feel and allow them to walk their path, but help as we can as good Christians, as we love them as we love ourselves.

So, I think that I would complete that thought and continue inviting people out to help serve with us--despite their beliefs, accept who they are and expect the same of them as we explain our own perspectives, whether or not we sway them.
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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10/30/2011 2:12:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 1:18:13 PM, RFH wrote:
At 10/29/2011 11:53:43 PM, Danielle wrote:
I'm not entirely sure that the churches intentions are perfectly pure; it's obviously a method to recruit and not entirely out of the kindness of their hearts

At 10/30/2011 5:48:50 AM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
I agree, Danielle. At least when atheists help the homeless they aren't trying to sell them something - they're not holding their sandwich to ransom.

Let's not question each other's motives. I could just as easily say that atheists only help the homeless to make themselves look good, feel good, or to have an opportunity to convince the target of their charity that God doesn't exist.

Goodness is only meaningful when it's performed for it's own sake. Any other motive will lead to devaluation. IMO Christians whether consciously or unconciously are trying to sell shoddy goods.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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10/30/2011 9:28:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 1:20:39 PM, Ren wrote:
At 10/29/2011 11:36:40 PM, Marauder wrote:
at a evanglilizam confrence I got to go to I learned about a movement trying to be done by some churches in my denomination, the movement is called 'ReThink church'

here is there offical website. http://www.rethinkchurch.org...



I think that is a step in a fantastic direction.

On the other hand, that raises an issue that I have with churches, and evangelical ones especially.

In my opinion, many churches turn people off to Christianity entirely when they approach things evangelically, because it suggests that Christians find something fundamentally wrong with their worldview. Many Christians would retort that they do, but that is not Christian behavior -- it is not our place to judge how people should live their lives. Jesus walked with sinners, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these people changed their ways.

Did I just here you right, 'Jesus walked with sinners but he wouldn't try to evangelize them'? or 'non-Christians don't change after hanging out with us so dot witness to them'
that's ridiculous, and yes I would retort we do find something wrong with the worlds view, if we did not we would not have our view we would have theirs. and as for Jesus he commanded us to preach the Gospel everywhere, so the great commission is always going to be a primary direction the church will need to aim at.

Instead, we tell them how we feel and allow them to walk their path, but help as we can as good Christians, as we love them as we love ourselves.
How does you equate 'loving others as yourself' = 'do not try to evangelize non-Christians' Do you wish you had never learned the word of god and would have kept the gosple from you? Well we cant do that for when we do not go to give warning to those who need to hear it Isiah (i think; might be Ezekiel) says we are held accountable in place of the sinners we did not warn to come to repentance.

So, I think that I would complete that thought and continue inviting people out to help serve with us--despite their beliefs, accept who they are and expect the same of them as we explain our own perspectives, whether or not we sway them.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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10/30/2011 9:45:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
How would you have us evangelize Ren if it were done it the most effective way in your view?

If you think the best way is through 'Relationship Evangilism' I think Kirk Cameron gave a pretty good retort to that kind of witnessing

tpe: On your program you teach viewers to engage complete strangers with :open-ended questions about eternity that you say will allow conversations :regarding faith to ensue. But that seems to contradict a popular teaching point in :Christian circles that says authentic relationships need to be established before :trying to lead someone to the Lord. How do you respond to that?

CAMERON: Relationship evangelism buys people time so they don't have to share :their faith. Every day on this planet 150,000 people die. A majority of those people :die without knowing Christ. If I really care about people, I will ask them what they :think will happen when they die. I won't avoid their greatest fear — which the :Bible says is the fear of death — and I will share with them how they can make :peace with God.
http://www.ag.org...

also another point that kind of adds that from the same interview, though we thinks its easier to witness once were good friends with the person, its actually harder.

tpe: Is it easy for you to share your faith with complete strangers?

CAMERON: The people closest to us are usually the hardest to witness to.

tpe: Why is that?

CAMERON: If you offend a family member you might negatively affect that :relationship for a lot of years and make countless Thanksgiving dinners :uncomfortable. But if you say something that makes a complete stranger :uncomfortable you probably aren't going to see that person again. So you have :nothing to lose. Believe it or not, most strangers will open up quicker to another :stranger regarding their faith than to a family member because they also have :nothing to lose.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.