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Yet another thread aimed at athiest

MarquisX
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10/30/2011 5:07:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why is that theist and atheist(on this website at least) referring to atheist as all one group of people? See when you group "Christians" all together its because we mostly follow the same teachings. Few differences here and there but its the same general idea. But I never thought of atheist as being one huge group. Is the idea of no God enough to unite people? Do you all have the same general beliefs?
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/30/2011 5:24:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A theist is someone who believes in the theistic conception of God.

Not everyone who believes in God is a theist.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in the theistic conception of God.

An atheist can believe in certain conceptions of God.

No, not all atheists are the same, and no, not all theists are the same. The big problem with these debates over the existence of God is that no one takes the "ignostic" position. Most of the time, people are arguing over completely different things.

It is part of the thing that makes the religion forum so humorous. So many people take themselves seriously when they haven't even reached the point to where any actual communication is going on.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
000ike
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10/30/2011 6:01:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:24:58 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
A theist is someone who believes in the theistic conception of God.

Theism is by definition belief in the existence of a higher power, there is no term for believing a higher power could exist. Most atheists don't deny that a higher power could exist so I'm not sure where you derived that distinction.

Not everyone who believes in God is a theist.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in the theistic conception of God.

An atheist can believe in certain conceptions of God.

No, not all atheists are the same, and no, not all theists are the same. The big problem with these debates over the existence of God is that no one takes the "ignostic" position. Most of the time, people are arguing over completely different things.

It is part of the thing that makes the religion forum so humorous. So many people take themselves seriously when they haven't even reached the point to where any actual communication is going on.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/30/2011 6:07:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Even an atheist believes in gravity.

Last I checked, gravity could fvck a nigga up straight.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/30/2011 6:10:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The theistic conception of God is distinct from the conception of God, though most people equate the two with the same thing... often times to the point of giving characteristics of the theistic God to non-theistic conceptions of God.

I'm not talking about an agnostic stance, I'm talking about the "ignostic" stance. That wasn't a typo.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/30/2011 6:11:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It isn't a widely recognized word, and for good reason. It makes establishing a mutual understanding too easy, when going around calling everyone idiots is much more satisfying to one's ego.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
vbaculum
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10/30/2011 7:32:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:07:24 PM, MarquisX wrote:
Why is that theist and atheist(on this website at least) referring to atheist as all one group of people? See when you group "Christians" all together its because we mostly follow the same teachings. Few differences here and there but its the same general idea. But I never thought of atheist as being one huge group. Is the idea of no God enough to unite people? Do you all have the same general beliefs?

Ayn Rand and Karl Marx were both atheist; so clearly not, at least, not by definition.

However, modern Western atheists tend to share certain values. They have a high regard for education (particularly scientific and philosophical education). They also have moral and political beliefs that would normally be described as liberal or progressive. I think it's safe to say that atheists have an aversion to traditionalism and authoritarianism. If anything unites us, it is secularism, i.e., the belief that government should have no involvement in religion and vice versa.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

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tvellalott
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10/30/2011 7:37:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:07:24 PM, MarquisX wrote:
Why is that theist and atheist(on this website at least) referring to atheist as all one group of people? See when you group "Christians" all together its because we mostly follow the same teachings. Few differences here and there but its the same general idea. But I never thought of atheist as being one huge group. Is the idea of no God enough to unite people? Do you all have the same general beliefs?

Atheists: People who deny or disbelieve in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

We all share this lack of belief.
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Muh threads
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CosmicAlfonzo
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10/30/2011 8:11:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As you can plainly see, I have a broader philosophical understanding of this subject than the typical atheist.

Unless you wish you engage in a worthless discussion, I suggest you talk to me.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
tvellalott
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10/30/2011 8:14:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 8:11:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
As you can plainly see, I have a broader philosophical understanding of this subject than the typical atheist.

Which subject is that? Whether Atheists can be referred to as a group?
Of course we can.
Hardly a deep philosophical discussion.
You do know your sh!t though, I'll give you that.
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jat93
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10/30/2011 8:32:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:07:24 PM, MarquisX wrote:
Is the idea of no God enough to unite people?

Yeah, totally, especially because it's a minority opinion. It's kind of like when there's something in your life that not everyone has, but you meet someone who does and you feel an instant connection with them. For me, I get that feeling when I meet someone who's parents are divorced - I know right off the bat that they've gone through experiences that are similar to mine. I get a similar feeling when I encounter an atheist (especially considering the way the majority of the world views atheism).
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/30/2011 10:09:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The idea of no God is not enough to unite people. Neither is the idea of God.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Marauder
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10/30/2011 10:09:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:24:58 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
A theist is someone who believes in the theistic conception of God.

Not everyone who believes in God is a theist.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in the theistic conception of God.

An atheist can believe in certain conceptions of God.

No, not all atheists are the same, and no, not all theists are the same. The big problem with these debates over the existence of God is that no one takes the "ignostic" position. Most of the time, people are arguing over completely different things.

It is part of the thing that makes the religion forum so humorous. So many people take themselves seriously when they haven't even reached the point to where any actual communication is going on.

Your an idiot, if you dont believe in most thiest concept of god, just call yourself the Pan-thiest that you are. Dont try and re-define what athiesm means just so you can say your included with them. Not every one who believes in god has the same concept of what god is, but just believing in one fits you under the broad category of Theist.

Athiesm is not believing in god. that's all there is too that. Panthiesm is a THIESM, even if its different from most, so its NOT ATHIESM
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vbaculum
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10/30/2011 11:56:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 10:09:12 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 10/30/2011 5:24:58 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
A theist is someone who believes in the theistic conception of God.

Not everyone who believes in God is a theist.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in the theistic conception of God.

An atheist can believe in certain conceptions of God.

No, not all atheists are the same, and no, not all theists are the same. The big problem with these debates over the existence of God is that no one takes the "ignostic" position. Most of the time, people are arguing over completely different things.

It is part of the thing that makes the religion forum so humorous. So many people take themselves seriously when they haven't even reached the point to where any actual communication is going on.

Your an idiot, if you dont believe in most thiest concept of god, just call yourself the Pan-thiest that you are. Dont try and re-define what athiesm means just so you can say your included with them. Not every one who believes in god has the same concept of what god is, but just believing in one fits you under the broad category of Theist.

Athiesm is not believing in god. that's all there is too that. Panthiesm is a THIESM, even if its different from most, so its NOT ATHIESM

Don't call Cosmic an idiot. He's good people.
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THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/31/2011 12:13:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am not redefining what the word "atheism" means, this is what it specifically refers to when you get into the deeper philosophical studies over this silly god business.

A pantheist is considered an atheist. I do not call myself a pantheist. I shy away from the atheist label, though I am considered an atheist.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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10/31/2011 3:46:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:07:24 PM, MarquisX wrote:
Why is that theist and atheist(on this website at least) referring to atheist as all one group of people? See when you group "Christians" all together its because we mostly follow the same teachings. Few differences here and there but its the same general idea. But I never thought of atheist as being one huge group. Is the idea of no God enough to unite people? Do you all have the same general beliefs?

Yea I am not sure, it is a worrying tendency.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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10/31/2011 3:48:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 8:11:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
As you can plainly see, I have a broader philosophical understanding of this subject than the typical atheist.

Unless you wish you engage in a worthless discussion, I suggest you talk to me.

Ooh the vicar is coming! And I'd wager a tuppeny bit you have not yet filled your pantaloons with haddock!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
drafterman
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10/31/2011 8:07:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:07:24 PM, MarquisX wrote:
Why is that theist and atheist(on this website at least) referring to atheist as all one group of people? See when you group "Christians" all together its because we mostly follow the same teachings. Few differences here and there but its the same general idea. But I never thought of atheist as being one huge group. Is the idea of no God enough to unite people? Do you all have the same general beliefs?

No. We don't. But addressing atheists at any more specific level requires work and some people are lazy. It's easier to simply make a hasty generalization and be done with it.
lotus_flower
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10/31/2011 9:09:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 6:07:33 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Even an atheist believes in gravity.

Last I checked, gravity could fvck a nigga up straight.

Sigged.
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izbo10
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10/31/2011 9:13:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Not everyone who believes in God is a theist."

We might have a new contender for dumbest statements on the board.

the·ism
noun \ˈthē-ˌi-zəm\
Definition of THEISM
belief in the existence of a god or gods;

http://www.merriam-webster.com...
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wiploc
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10/31/2011 10:09:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 5:07:24 PM, MarquisX wrote:
Why is that theist and atheist(on this website at least) referring to atheist as all one group of people? See when you group "Christians" all together its because we mostly follow the same teachings. Few differences here and there but its the same general idea. But I never thought of atheist as being one huge group. Is the idea of no God enough to unite people? Do you all have the same general beliefs?

You make a good point. It's silly when people treat atheists as a united group. Our only common feature is that we don't believe in gods.
GeoLaureate8
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10/31/2011 12:29:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 8:11:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
As you can plainly see, I have a broader philosophical understanding of this subject than the typical atheist.

Unless you wish you engage in a worthless discussion, I suggest you talk to me.

Uh... you just said that an Atheist can believe in God... Sorry but no.
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Danielle
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10/31/2011 12:39:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think even lumping Christians together is silly. It wasn't until a few years ago (on this website actually) that I knew non-trinitarian Christians existed... that is, Christians who do not believe that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are one. I thought that was a mandatory belief for Christians but apparently not. It's pretty obvious that all groups of Christians just pick and choose what beliefs to follow, what to implement in their doctrines, etc. and so you shouldn't assume what Christians believe. Some just use Jesus as a figurehead for an IDEA or set of ideals. Some don't believe he was holy. Who knows. There are just as many "liberal Christians" who support same-sex marriage as there are the Evangelical, conservative ones. You just never know.
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CosmicAlfonzo
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10/31/2011 2:25:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/31/2011 12:29:46 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/30/2011 8:11:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
As you can plainly see, I have a broader philosophical understanding of this subject than the typical atheist.

Unless you wish you engage in a worthless discussion, I suggest you talk to me.

Uh... you just said that an Atheist can believe in God... Sorry but no.

Well obviously, with your understanding of the word.

But there are other other understandings that make the saying, "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God."" absolutely true.

The problem is, you are set in your ways, and have closed your mind off to greater implications of it. As I said earlier, "The theistic conception of God is distinct from the conception of God, though most people equate the two with the same thing... often times to the point of giving characteristics of the theistic God to non-theistic conceptions of God."
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CosmicAlfonzo
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10/31/2011 2:54:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/31/2011 12:39:23 PM, Danielle wrote:
I think even lumping Christians together is silly. It wasn't until a few years ago (on this website actually) that I knew non-trinitarian Christians existed... that is, Christians who do not believe that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are one. I thought that was a mandatory belief for Christians but apparently not.

In my later stages of being a Christian, I not only did not accept the whole trinity concept as it is understood in orthodox Christianity, but I did not believe that Jesus was literally the embodiment of God.

By his own words, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God". Jesus himself also referenced Psalm 82 to defend those who called him "Son of God".

In the end however, Jesus was put on trial, and these things were considered to be blasphemous.

The Christian doctrine of equating Jesus with God the Father is in fact, a blasphemy. They do not even understand what they are saying.

The book of John throws a large wrench into the understanding of Christianity. Take out the book of John and the New Testament makes a lot more sense. The book of John will only confuse most people.

Even though it is very clear that Jesus taught almost entirely in metaphor, riddles, and parable, most people, both Christian and non-Christian on the whole are terrible interpreters of text.

It's funny, because a lot of the early persecution of Christianity had to do with the fact that the people took the teachings of Christ to be literal. Understandably, talking about eating someone's body, and drinking their blood freaked the fvck out of people who weren't in full understandings of the beliefs.

Yet there are people who still cling on to the supernatural aspects of the story, despite the fact that Jesus said that "Only a wicked and adulterous generation requires these things". People cling on to these things despite Paul's clarifications on how the resurrection was not a bodily one. The New Testament is full of symbolism that is not understood, and most of the words that people think they have an understanding of have COMPLETELY different meanings than what is commonly accepted.

Rarely do you find a Christian who even has a rudimentary understanding of these things. Anti-Christians on the whole tend to interpret scripture in the most hilariously off manners. Anti-Christians and fundamentalists are the worst.

Meaning has been lost to time. The Church of today is like a weaker version of the church at the time of Jesus. If Jesus were around today, I am certain that he would have issue.

Christian teachings are otherworldly yes, but it is not the type of otherworldliness that most people think. The teachings deal with the spiritual world, which is not the type of spiritual world that most people think. The teachings all deal with very real things, but you aren't going to realize this until you know what is being talked about.

Of course, it isn't important in the slightest that you come to understand any of it.. But there are too many people who speak much of what they do not understand.
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GeoLaureate8
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10/31/2011 3:18:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/31/2011 2:25:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 10/31/2011 12:29:46 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/30/2011 8:11:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
As you can plainly see, I have a broader philosophical understanding of this subject than the typical atheist.

Unless you wish you engage in a worthless discussion, I suggest you talk to me.

Uh... you just said that an Atheist can believe in God... Sorry but no.

Well obviously, with your understanding of the word.

But there are other other understandings that make the saying, "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God."" absolutely true.

My understanding of the word comes from the dictionary. You're attempting to confuse language.

An Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a God or gods. An Atheist is not a person who says "I disbelieve most Gods, but there is this one God I accept." No. That's the THEIST position. Theists disbelieve all Gods except the one they choose.

The problem is, you are set in your ways, and have closed your mind off to greater implications of it.

No, I use clear, sensible definitions of words rather than take a word and make sh!t up for the definition and say "I have my personal reasons for using the term like this."

Seriously, I think you choose to use the word "God" for your Atheistic world view for PR reasons and trying not to alienate people knowing that God-belief is a lot less contrarian and perceived as humble thus making it easier to convince people of your philosophy. And I'm pretty sure you've hinted to the point of admitting that.

So it's not my narrow-minded perspective, you're just using superfluous language and calling things something they are not for your own purposes.

As I said earlier, "The theistic conception of God is distinct from the conception of God, though most people equate the two with the same thing... often times to the point of giving characteristics of the theistic God to non-theistic conceptions of God."

A Theist is a Theist. Of course there are a variety of conceptions of God among Theists, which is why it's absurd you'd claim that the Theist conception of God is not the real conception of God. The Theist conception of God varies and basically, any conception of God is covered in the Theist world view given that Theism = belief in God and doesn't specify any specific conception of God.
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CosmicAlfonzo
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10/31/2011 3:38:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Alright Geo, what is the difference between a pantheist and an atheist other than the choice to use the word "god" for one of them?
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CosmicAlfonzo
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10/31/2011 3:47:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And for the record, if you think that I am using the word "god" as a means to bring people closer to a naturalistic viewpoint, how does it benefit mankind to call me out on it?
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CosmicAlfonzo
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10/31/2011 3:55:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Relevent definitions courtesy of Merriam Webster

Theism: Belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically the belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world

God: 1. Supreme or Ultimate Reality
3. A person or thing of supreme value

Pantheism: A doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe

Universe: The whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated

Atheism: A disbelief in the existence of a deity

Deity: 1. A rank or essential nature of a god
2. A god or goddess
3. One exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful.

Clearly, atheism is very specifically the rejection of the theistic conception of God. Pantheism as I am describing has nothing to do with deities, nor does it have anything to do with the theistic conception of God.
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Zetsubou
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10/31/2011 3:57:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To be a pantheist you have to partake in the active recognition of nature as divine. Not explicitly worship but something religious, geo has that connection.

It's radical environmentalism or if you have heard of it, eupraxsophy.
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