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Who is your Lord and Monarch? Satan or Jesus?

GreatestIam
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11/4/2011 12:56:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Theist. Who is your Lord and Monarch? Satan or Jesus?

Dogma says that God evicted Satan from heaven because he would not bow to man.

God also gave man dominion in Eden and this sovereignty was somehow given to Satan. We know this because he used it to tempt Jesus. His dominion thus had to be real or the temptation is a lie.

Dogma also says that through Jesus is now the only way for man to reach heaven. The hierarchy of powers over man seems to thus be God at the top, if allowed by Jesus. Second would be Satan as man's rightful sovereign. Third would be Jesus who usurped the position of the Trinity as the final judge for our admittance to heaven.

The various position of the three mentioned can be argued but regardless of who is where, it still means that there are three invisible supernatural entities above man.

This is contrary to the fact that God initially wanted man to be in the third position and not the forth.

In nature, something man is a part of, all entities look to their own for guidance, laws and example to follow. Man breaks this natural pattern by placing three silent and invisible alien entities above us. A Father God who shows himself to not be a very good parent in Eden. A Satan entity who, even though is supposed to represent evil, is given sovereignty over man after God clawed back that dominion from us. And finally a Jesus entity who offers the greatest example of love, as well as the greatest example of hate as the gateway to heaven and hell.

We are learning that it is a good idea to work along with nature and not spoil it. Climate change being the teacher. We may be living souls but we must be human and natural first in order for the soul to have a home.

Why then are you, a human, going against nature by placing some other entity above you for the example, leadership and salvation that you think you need? That is counter to all of natures examples to us?

Much is said of the so called free will that God is said to have given man. Yet we all know what happened to Adam and Eve the moment they exercised their will and not the will of God. It was not pretty. God set the conditions for their death and I call that murder. We can see that God does not allow man a free will.

Why are you self deprecating yourself to a secondary position to an unknowable master? Why have you given up your free will to the will of an alien entity who basically says that if you do not do his will, you will burn for eternity? A threat from a tyrant and not free will at all.

To me, that is like a slave deciding to venerate and adore his owner.

Why are you not choosing your natural position of leadership or following human leadership? Why are you choosing a position that is basically of a slave?

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

John 8 44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

If Satan is our earthly King and father as scripture says, are you to serve Satan with deep respect and fear, or Jesus, who has no authority or dominion on earth?

Regards
DL
logicrules
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11/5/2011 5:32:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 12:56:17 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Theist. Who is your Lord and Monarch? Satan or Jesus?

Dogma says that God evicted Satan from heaven because he would not bow to man.

God also gave man dominion in Eden and this sovereignty was somehow given to Satan. We know this because he used it to tempt Jesus. His dominion thus had to be real or the temptation is a lie.

Dogma also says that through Jesus is now the only way for man to reach heaven. The hierarchy of powers over man seems to thus be God at the top, if allowed by Jesus. Second would be Satan as man's rightful sovereign. Third would be Jesus who usurped the position of the Trinity as the final judge for our admittance to heaven.

The various position of the three mentioned can be argued but regardless of who is where, it still means that there are three invisible supernatural entities above man.

This is contrary to the fact that God initially wanted man to be in the third position and not the forth.

In nature, something man is a part of, all entities look to their own for guidance, laws and example to follow. Man breaks this natural pattern by placing three silent and invisible alien entities above us. A Father God who shows himself to not be a very good parent in Eden. A Satan entity who, even though is supposed to represent evil, is given sovereignty over man after God clawed back that dominion from us. And finally a Jesus entity who offers the greatest example of love, as well as the greatest example of hate as the gateway to heaven and hell.

We are learning that it is a good idea to work along with nature and not spoil it. Climate change being the teacher. We may be living souls but we must be human and natural first in order for the soul to have a home.

Why then are you, a human, going against nature by placing some other entity above you for the example, leadership and salvation that you think you need? That is counter to all of natures examples to us?

Much is said of the so called free will that God is said to have given man. Yet we all know what happened to Adam and Eve the moment they exercised their will and not the will of God. It was not pretty. God set the conditions for their death and I call that murder. We can see that God does not allow man a free will.

Why are you self deprecating yourself to a secondary position to an unknowable master? Why have you given up your free will to the will of an alien entity who basically says that if you do not do his will, you will burn for eternity? A threat from a tyrant and not free will at all.

To me, that is like a slave deciding to venerate and adore his owner.

Why are you not choosing your natural position of leadership or following human leadership? Why are you choosing a position that is basically of a slave?

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

John 8 44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

If Satan is our earthly King and father as scripture says, are you to serve Satan with deep respect and fear, or Jesus, who has no authority or dominion on earth?

Regards
DL

Jesus is God Satan just an angel....Satan, therfore, cannot be a monarch or Lord
Mr.Infidel
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11/5/2011 5:57:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
My G-d is Hashem.

Hear, o Israel, the Lord is our G-d; and the L-RD is one!

I don't worship Jesus or Satan. Satan is NOT a fallen angel. Let's get that fact straight.
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Opinions of this signature are those of G-d's and any of His affiliates.
logicrules
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11/5/2011 7:00:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 5:57:45 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
My G-d is Hashem.

Hear, o Israel, the Lord is our G-d; and the L-RD is one!

I don't worship Jesus or Satan. Satan is NOT a fallen angel. Let's get that fact straight.

Its a fact....gee and here I thought it was an adaptation of Zoroastrianism adopted by the Jewish people because the Persians were so nice, my bad.
GreatestIam
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11/5/2011 12:55:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 5:32:48 AM, logicrules wrote:

Jesus is God Satan just an angel....Satan, therfore, cannot be a monarch or Lord

Then the temptation story was a sham and a lie. Right?
Satan could not tempt Jesus with what was not his. Right?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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11/5/2011 12:57:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 5:57:45 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
My G-d is Hashem.

Hear, o Israel, the Lord is our G-d; and the L-RD is one!

I don't worship Jesus or Satan. Satan is NOT a fallen angel. Let's get that fact straight.

Fact?
Do you have proof or evidence of this fact?

Regards
DL
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/5/2011 3:20:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 12:57:42 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/5/2011 5:57:45 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
My G-d is Hashem.

Hear, o Israel, the Lord is our G-d; and the L-RD is one!

I don't worship Jesus or Satan. Satan is NOT a fallen angel. Let's get that fact straight.

Fact?
Do you have proof or evidence of this fact?

Regards
DL

That particular belief is not backed by the written word. It's more of an extra cultural thing, sort of like the common conception of hell.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
GreatestIam
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11/5/2011 3:45:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 3:20:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 11/5/2011 12:57:42 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/5/2011 5:57:45 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
My G-d is Hashem.

Hear, o Israel, the Lord is our G-d; and the L-RD is one!

I don't worship Jesus or Satan. Satan is NOT a fallen angel. Let's get that fact straight.

Fact?
Do you have proof or evidence of this fact?

Regards
DL

That particular belief is not backed by the written word. It's more of an extra cultural thing, sort of like the common conception of hell.

Belief in tradition is not belief in religion.
IMO, 95% of believers do not believe. They just follow tradition and not a God.

My evidence for that particular belief start with personal experience and ends with this vid.

Regards
DL
Zetsubou
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11/5/2011 4:21:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 3:20:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:

That particular belief is not backed by the written word. It's more of an extra cultural thing, sort of like the common conception of hell.

Revelation 12:7-10 (KJV)
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/5/2011 4:32:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 4:21:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 3:20:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:

That particular belief is not backed by the written word. It's more of an extra cultural thing, sort of like the common conception of hell.


Revelation 12:7-10 (KJV)
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The devil isn't referred to as an angel, but it is an understandable interpretation, and it is reasonable enough to where I'd roll with it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Zetsubou
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11/5/2011 4:42:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 4:32:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:

The devil isn't referred to as an angel, but it is an understandable interpretation, and it is reasonable enough to where I'd roll with it.

Clearly a metaphor, who else resides in heaven with god? The serpent/dragon is a common metonym for him throughout the Bible.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/5/2011 6:08:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 12:56:17 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God also gave man dominion in Eden and this sovereignty was somehow given to Satan. We know this because he used it to tempt Jesus. His dominion thus had to be real or the temptation is a lie.

Jesus's response, and I'm obviously paraphrasing, was something like, "How could you give something to me that already belongs to me?"

Yes, it was a lie.

That's essentially the point. It's literally how Satan operates. Bear in mind that this occurred while Jesus was contemplating a slow and agonizing death.

Satan attacks you when you weak by tempting you to do something wrong, offering you the opposite of whatever is making you weak. In this case, while Jesus was facing death, Satan offered Jesus eternal life.

You know what's something that I never see atheists, religious skeptics, agnostics and the like ask about?

What is Satan's motivation?

I know that in the Bible, it's suggested that Satan wants to be like God; that he's competing with God. But, does that sound likely? Supposedly, he's a supernatural being singly possessing more knowledge of reality and existence than humanity could ever hope to in half a million years. Moreover, he's capable of deceiving every single human on the planet -- even the above 200 freaks that can practically move shtt with their minds. Therefore, wouldn't he be intelligent enough to realize something that humanity cannot? At least, if God were definitely on the winning team, if God were eternal, omniscient, and omnipresent, how could Satan believe he has a fleeting chance to compete?

So, then, wtf is he doing? Why is he running around causing trouble? I mean, all that power and intellect, and he wastes it all screwing with humanity? What about the rest of the universe -- is it really so boring? If he lives in a plane above ours, I couldn't imaging what experience must be like, given the incredible experience offered by our limited senses alone.

Yaknow? What's Satan's motivation?
Zetsubou
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11/5/2011 6:43:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ren, it isn't explicitly said but one position is implied in both Islam and Christianity .

Lucifer was cast out of heaven because he rebelled against god, "he deceived all that is". The first instance in which he came into contact with mankind was in Eden - he caused the first sin in mankind, in Eve. Since then he has dedicated himself to causing perversion and sin in human action.

In the original Faustus, Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost, the greatest cultural works that expand on the Devil's story, Lucifer's sin is pride. It is proposed that he refused to work in the service of human. Lucifer, the morning star, works for God alone, not humanity. The Angels' primary function is to act as messengers between god and humanity. It think it's reasonable to think he refused. In Milton's a paradise lost the devil's angels were those that refused to the bow to humanity.

Is Islam, the devil is not a jinn, a proto-being (think of a genie without the lamps), He is the adversary of humanity because he thinks they are inferior, his objective it to take as many souls as possible before God annihilates him.

tl;dr: He hates us because gods love us.

"[he is] the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"
Ephesians 2:2
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Ren
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11/5/2011 7:12:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 6:43:56 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Ren, it isn't explicitly said but one position is implied in both Islam and Christianity .

Lucifer was cast out of heaven because he rebelled against god, "he deceived all that is". The first instance in which he came into contact with mankind was in Eden - he caused the first sin in mankind, in Eve. Since then he has dedicated himself to causing perversion and sin in human action.

In the original Faustus, Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost, the greatest cultural works that expand on the Devil's story, Lucifer's sin is pride. It is proposed that he refused to work in the service of human. Lucifer, the morning star, works for God alone, not humanity. The Angels' primary function is to act as messengers between god and humanity. It think it's reasonable to think he refused. In Milton's a paradise lost the devil's angels were those that refused to the bow to humanity.

Is Islam, the devil is not a jinn, a proto-being (think of a genie without the lamps), He is the adversary of humanity because he thinks they are inferior, his objective it to take as many souls as possible before God annihilates him.

tl;dr: He hates us because gods love us.

"[he is] the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"
Ephesians 2:2

I am familiar with both positions, but I still find weaknesses within the arguments.

For example, the primary purpose of angels. That almost suggests that angels were made with the purpose of relaying correspondence between God and humans. However, angels predate man, Satan was cast into Hell before man was created, and once Satan is defeated, man will sit alongside God. Perhaps Satan could not imagine living alongside man? Nonetheless, he doesn't have a choice, so one would figure that he'd find a way to adapt rather than childishly and fruitlessly fck shtt up before God pulls the trigger.

Or is it... that he still has allegiance to God? Or, that he doesn't value his own existence?

...on a side note, have you actually read Milton's Paradise Lost? That is probably my favorite epic poem ever. ^_^
Zetsubou
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11/5/2011 7:35:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Satan was cast into Hell before man was created, and once Satan is defeated, man will sit alongside God. Perhaps Satan could not imagine living alongside man? Nonetheless, he doesn't have a choice, so one would figure that he'd find a way to adapt rather than childishly and fruitlessly fck shtt up before God pulls the trigger.
Satan wasn't cast into Hell before man was created, he was cast out of heaven sometime after the creation of man. He's proving a point to God, trying to prove him wrong. It's like the Book of Job on the grand scale. Life will get worse and worse until calamity and the inevitable rule of the anti-christ, Satan's messiah.

Or is it... that he still has allegiance to God? Or, that he doesn't value his own existence?
I think he still loves God, he does it out of love, lol.

...on a side note, have you actually read Milton's Paradise Lost? That is probably my favorite epic poem ever. ^_^
Hoping to, never got round to it.

I have read Christopher Marlowe's Faustus which was... satisfactory; I also read the 16th Century chapbook: A History of Dr. Johann Fausten. It hold it to be the best short story I have ever read and probably will ever read.

It's here: http://lettersfromthedustbowl.com...

My favorite epic poem is Bernard de Mandeville's the fable of the bees.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
logicrules
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11/6/2011 5:57:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 12:55:44 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/5/2011 5:32:48 AM, logicrules wrote:

Jesus is God Satan just an angel....Satan, therfore, cannot be a monarch or Lord

Then the temptation story was a sham and a lie. Right?
Satan could not tempt Jesus with what was not his. Right?

Regards
DL

Thats a leap...I said e a monarch not has the ability to tempt. Heck, I've seen some fairly tempting things in my day...they were not all Queens.
GreatestIam
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11/6/2011 1:28:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 4:32:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 11/5/2011 4:21:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 3:20:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:

That particular belief is not backed by the written word. It's more of an extra cultural thing, sort of like the common conception of hell.


Revelation 12:7-10 (KJV)
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The devil isn't referred to as an angel, but it is an understandable interpretation, and it is reasonable enough to where I'd roll with it.

Regards
DL
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/6/2011 1:40:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 1:28:04 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/5/2011 4:32:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 11/5/2011 4:21:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 3:20:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:

That particular belief is not backed by the written word. It's more of an extra cultural thing, sort of like the common conception of hell.


Revelation 12:7-10 (KJV)
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The devil isn't referred to as an angel, but it is an understandable interpretation, and it is reasonable enough to where I'd roll with it.



Regards
DL

Well duuuh.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
GreatestIam
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11/6/2011 1:40:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 6:08:33 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/4/2011 12:56:17 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

Yaknow? What's Satan's motivation?

Scripture indicates that he is doing whatever God tells him to do. See Job.
We all know that justice delayed is justice denied.
If you believe in God and justice, then you would have to condemn God for allowing Satin to sin or cause us to sin when he said that hell was created for Satan and his pals, yet God does not do justice by imposing the sentence he supposedly set.

God may want to teach us that rebellion is a good thing. After all. On earth, most changes to a better system were brought on by rebellion.

Regards
DL
gr33k_fr33k5
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11/6/2011 2:10:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 12:56:17 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Theist. Who is your Lord and Monarch? Satan or Jesus?

Dogma says that God evicted Satan from heaven because he would not bow to man.

God also gave man dominion in Eden and this sovereignty was somehow given to Satan. We know this because he used it to tempt Jesus. His dominion thus had to be real or the temptation is a lie.

Dogma also says that through Jesus is now the only way for man to reach heaven. The hierarchy of powers over man seems to thus be God at the top, if allowed by Jesus. Second would be Satan as man's rightful sovereign. Third would be Jesus who usurped the position of the Trinity as the final judge for our admittance to heaven.

The various position of the three mentioned can be argued but regardless of who is where, it still means that there are three invisible supernatural entities above man.

This is contrary to the fact that God initially wanted man to be in the third position and not the forth.

In nature, something man is a part of, all entities look to their own for guidance, laws and example to follow. Man breaks this natural pattern by placing three silent and invisible alien entities above us. A Father God who shows himself to not be a very good parent in Eden. A Satan entity who, even though is supposed to represent evil, is given sovereignty over man after God clawed back that dominion from us. And finally a Jesus entity who offers the greatest example of love, as well as the greatest example of hate as the gateway to heaven and hell.

We are learning that it is a good idea to work along with nature and not spoil it. Climate change being the teacher. We may be living souls but we must be human and natural first in order for the soul to have a home.

Why then are you, a human, going against nature by placing some other entity above you for the example, leadership and salvation that you think you need? That is counter to all of natures examples to us?

Much is said of the so called free will that God is said to have given man. Yet we all know what happened to Adam and Eve the moment they exercised their will and not the will of God. It was not pretty. God set the conditions for their death and I call that murder. We can see that God does not allow man a free will.

Why are you self deprecating yourself to a secondary position to an unknowable master? Why have you given up your free will to the will of an alien entity who basically says that if you do not do his will, you will burn for eternity? A threat from a tyrant and not free will at all.

To me, that is like a slave deciding to venerate and adore his owner.

Why are you not choosing your natural position of leadership or following human leadership? Why are you choosing a position that is basically of a slave?

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

John 8 44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

If Satan is our earthly King and father as scripture says, are you to serve Satan with deep respect and fear, or Jesus, who has no authority or dominion on earth?

Regards
DL

regarding your point on free will, there was no other alternative. God has a right to make the rules, he has the right to kill anyone he sees fit, he has the right to do whatever the hell he wants. This is because God IS the law, he didn't just make it.

that was a tangent, the reason that the penalty for disobeying God was death is that that is the ONLY possible penalty. Only in perfection do you find eternal life, anything that isn't God is imperfect (since God is the example of perfection). Hence, in order to give us free will God did the most merciful thing possible. . . Knowing that outside of perfection we would die, he made the stakes extremely high, "follow me" or "do the ridiculous act of bringing upon yourself death and affliction" . . . unfortunately we chose to run from him
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
GreatestIam
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11/6/2011 6:21:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 2:10:38 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:

regarding your point on free will, there was no other alternative. God has a right to make the rules, he has the right to kill anyone he sees fit, he has the right to do whatever the hell he wants. This is because God IS the law, he didn't just make it.

that was a tangent, the reason that the penalty for disobeying God was death is that that is the ONLY possible penalty. Only in perfection do you find eternal life, anything that isn't God is imperfect (since God is the example of perfection). Hence, in order to give us free will God did the most merciful thing possible. . . Knowing that outside of perfection we would die, he made the stakes extremely high, "follow me" or "do the ridiculous act of bringing upon yourself death and affliction" . . . unfortunately we chose to run from him

Quite the free will. Do things my way or burn forever.
That so called free will is a threat from a tyrant and has little to do with free will.

A & E could not have known that they had free will or that they were autonomous creatures without exercising that autonomy and free will and we both know of the sissy fit your idiot God threw the first time A & E did their will and not Gods.

Free will my rump.

Regards
DL
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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11/6/2011 7:41:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What you fail to understand is that the choice was not "me or burn in Hell" . . .. the choice was God or not God. . . we chose not God and the only possible alternative is the complete absence of God, He didn't throw a hissy fit, he simply did exactly what he said he would . .. He made the rule (which he had every right to do)
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/7/2011 3:53:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 1:40:07 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/5/2011 6:08:33 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/4/2011 12:56:17 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

Yaknow? What's Satan's motivation?

Scripture indicates that he is doing whatever God tells him to do. See Job.
We all know that justice delayed is justice denied.
If you believe in God and justice, then you would have to condemn God for allowing Satin to sin or cause us to sin when he said that hell was created for Satan and his pals, yet God does not do justice by imposing the sentence he supposedly set.

God may want to teach us that rebellion is a good thing. After all. On earth, most changes to a better system were brought on by rebellion.

Regards
DL

I know this is completely irrelevant, and I apologize in advance, but Sir Hiss is epic.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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11/7/2011 6:44:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 7:41:16 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
What you fail to understand is that the choice was not "me or burn in Hell" . . .. the choice was God or not God. . .

Correct --- God or burn in hell. WTH do you not understand about that.
Sating not God instead of hell is quite hypocritical. Get honest or get lost.
With that choice, slavery to God or hell, the choice should be hell. Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.

You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2011, not 111.



we chose not God and the only possible alternative is the complete absence of God,

A forced choice is not a free choice. God or hell. What happened to our free choice of neither.
We chose not slavery. Not hell. Hell is God's refusal to let man be his own best example. Our best example is definitely not your genocidal owner.


He didn't throw a hissy fit, he simply did exactly what he said he would . .. He made the rule (which he had every right to do)

Might makes right eh.
Look again for the first time.
What penalty had he mentioned?
Just the one.
How many did he impose?
Many.
He was making up his punishment arbitrarily with things that no one knew about. That is an immoral sissy fit.

Admit it if you are honest. If not, go away.
I do not have time to correct those who bob and weave, play with dishonest language and lie.

Regards
DL