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WriterSelbe
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11/6/2011 3:38:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
are bad.. according to the Bible. Yet it is all right to offer your daughter to a large group of men who intend to rape her to protect a man from homosexual relations...

Let's have pie.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/6/2011 3:55:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, the leaders of the church had standards back then that seem pretty silly now.

You have to look at what they based their morality on. Tribal stability and growth. If that is the most important thing, by their moral standards, homosexuality indeed is a sin.

However, you have to understand from the front that these are man made interpretations of the greater law which is not spoken in Earthly tongue.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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11/6/2011 5:33:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yum pie !
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One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
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JustCallMeTarzan
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11/6/2011 7:38:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 3:38:05 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
are bad.. according to the Bible. Yet it is all right to offer your daughter to a large group of men who intend to rape her to protect a man from homosexual relations...

Duh - the story of Lot is just an example of HOW BAD gay is.
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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11/7/2011 8:26:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
so, you would argue that regardless of the society you live in morals never change. . . you would argue for absolute right and wrong?
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
Tehmuffin19
Posts: 2
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11/7/2011 10:07:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 7:38:56 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/6/2011 3:38:05 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
are bad.. according to the Bible. Yet it is all right to offer your daughter to a large group of men who intend to rape her to protect a man from homosexual relations...

Duh - the story of Lot is just an example of HOW BAD gay is.

Actually, the story of lot was an example of respect for your guests. The members of Lot's house were more willing to let their daughters be raped then see a welcomed guest be taken. Greek culture has some of this "honored guest" stuff too, though maybe in not as great of a scale.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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11/8/2011 12:26:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/7/2011 10:07:10 PM, Tehmuffin19 wrote:
At 11/6/2011 7:38:56 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/6/2011 3:38:05 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
are bad.. according to the Bible. Yet it is all right to offer your daughter to a large group of men who intend to rape her to protect a man from homosexual relations...

Duh - the story of Lot is just an example of HOW BAD gay is.

Actually, the story of lot was an example of respect for your guests. The members of Lot's house were more willing to let their daughters be raped then see a welcomed guest be taken. Greek culture has some of this "honored guest" stuff too, though maybe in not as great of a scale.

Oh. My mistake... that makes it OK to offer your virginal daughters to be gangraped by a mob of angry men. If you will kindly provide your address, I will gather a mob and proceed to your house, where I fully expect the same treatment.
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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11/9/2011 3:16:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/8/2011 12:26:54 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/7/2011 10:07:10 PM, Tehmuffin19 wrote:
At 11/6/2011 7:38:56 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/6/2011 3:38:05 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
are bad.. according to the Bible. Yet it is all right to offer your daughter to a large group of men who intend to rape her to protect a man from homosexual relations...

Duh - the story of Lot is just an example of HOW BAD gay is.

Actually, the story of lot was an example of respect for your guests. The members of Lot's house were more willing to let their daughters be raped then see a welcomed guest be taken. Greek culture has some of this "honored guest" stuff too, though maybe in not as great of a scale.

Oh. My mistake... that makes it OK to offer your virginal daughters to be gangraped by a mob of angry men. If you will kindly provide your address, I will gather a mob and proceed to your house, where I fully expect the same treatment.

Yes. Thank you.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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11/9/2011 3:29:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/7/2011 10:07:10 PM, Tehmuffin19 wrote:
At 11/6/2011 7:38:56 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/6/2011 3:38:05 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
are bad.. according to the Bible. Yet it is all right to offer your daughter to a large group of men who intend to rape her to protect a man from homosexual relations...

Duh - the story of Lot is just an example of HOW BAD gay is.

Actually, the story of lot was an example of respect for your guests. The members of Lot's house were more willing to let their daughters be raped then see a welcomed guest be taken. Greek culture has some of this "honored guest" stuff too, though maybe in not as great of a scale.

Yet another example of "justification being almost as disgusting as the act."
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/9/2011 4:08:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You guys really wouldn't like caveman ethics.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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11/9/2011 4:15:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 4:08:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You guys really wouldn't like caveman ethics.

I'm down with savagery.. I just don't like hypocrisy, and the Bible is pretty much that.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/9/2011 7:21:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
LOL, you guys are funny.

God never told Lot to fork over his daughters.

That was his personal idea to solve the situation. He was not "right" to do this is the only Christian interpretation.

You will note in the story God had a different idea on how to solve the problem.

This was entirely a strawman against God.
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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11/9/2011 7:47:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 7:21:23 PM, Gileandos wrote:
LOL, you guys are funny.

God never told Lot to fork over his daughters.

That was his personal idea to solve the situation. He was not "right" to do this is the only Christian interpretation.

You will note in the story God had a different idea on how to solve the problem.

This was entirely a strawman against God.

Purty much. It's in the Bible. Therefore I analyze.

So, I suppose we shouldn't hate on God... We should just be hating on them there Christians with their forcin' of faith on other people and the condemnin' of the homosexuals and oppressin' of women and whatnots.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/9/2011 10:45:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 7:47:09 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
At 11/9/2011 7:21:23 PM, Gileandos wrote:
LOL, you guys are funny.

God never told Lot to fork over his daughters.

That was his personal idea to solve the situation. He was not "right" to do this is the only Christian interpretation.

You will note in the story God had a different idea on how to solve the problem.

This was entirely a strawman against God.

Purty much. It's in the Bible. Therefore I analyze.

So, I suppose we shouldn't hate on God... We should just be hating on them there Christians with their forcin' of faith on other people and the condemnin' of the homosexuals and oppressin' of women and whatnots.

You yourself are equally guilty of forcing your moral code on people.

You force your "higher" moral code on pedophiles and lock them into a little cage.
You do the same and force your "higher" moral codes upon the rapist and lock him away too.

For shame for your hypocrisy.

The only difference between you and I, I have a transcendent objective moral value system.
I have a transcendent value system I can point to that does not rely upon my personal subjective opinion.

God is not wrong to deal harshly with those who oppose him.
You do the same.

I completely agree with you that pedophiles and rapists should be treated to the full penalty we can impose.

Why are you hating on God for including homsexuals on the list? What makes you more right than God to not discriminate against deviants when you do the same?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/9/2011 10:48:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:45:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
The only difference between you and I, I have a transcendent objective moral value system.
I have a transcendent value system I can point to that does not rely upon my personal subjective opinion.

You are fvcking retarded.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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11/9/2011 10:49:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Has it ever occurred before but doesn't Gileandos sound a lot like Tiel?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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11/9/2011 10:49:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:45:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/9/2011 7:47:09 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
At 11/9/2011 7:21:23 PM, Gileandos wrote:
LOL, you guys are funny.

God never told Lot to fork over his daughters.

That was his personal idea to solve the situation. He was not "right" to do this is the only Christian interpretation.

You will note in the story God had a different idea on how to solve the problem.

This was entirely a strawman against God.

Purty much. It's in the Bible. Therefore I analyze.

So, I suppose we shouldn't hate on God... We should just be hating on them there Christians with their forcin' of faith on other people and the condemnin' of the homosexuals and oppressin' of women and whatnots.

You yourself are equally guilty of forcing your moral code on people.

You force your "higher" moral code on pedophiles and lock them into a little cage.
You do the same and force your "higher" moral codes upon the rapist and lock him away too.

For shame for your hypocrisy.

The only difference between you and I, I have a transcendent objective moral value system.
I have a transcendent value system I can point to that does not rely upon my personal subjective opinion.

God is not wrong to deal harshly with those who oppose him.
You do the same.

I completely agree with you that pedophiles and rapists should be treated to the full penalty we can impose.

Why are you hating on God for including homsexuals on the list? What makes you more right than God to not discriminate against deviants when you do the same?

Because if someone wants to have sex with another male or female they aren't harming each other or anyone else. If a man or woman has sex with a child and the child is unwilling and not within a state to know what it is that is being done to them or deny the adult then it is not consented to by both parties. I live by the law of consent. If they both want it, then it's no harm to me.

The difference was those men were raping the girl. We're not talking about rapists. We're talking about homosexuals.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/9/2011 10:51:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well not inherently bad, just shouldn't be married.

1. Gay isn't natural, or proven to be.
2. Definition of marriage is between a man and a woman.
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Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/9/2011 10:51:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:49:13 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Has it ever occurred before but doesn't Gileandos sound a lot like Tiel?

Ouch.
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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11/9/2011 10:53:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:51:15 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Well not inherently bad, just shouldn't be married.

1. Gay isn't natural, or proven to be.
2. Definition of marriage is between a man and a woman.

Then make up a new term. Homershmexual Union. There we go. Put it on a Bill and all they gays are happy as long as they get the same benefits as marriage.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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11/9/2011 10:53:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:51:43 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/9/2011 10:49:13 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Has it ever occurred before but doesn't Gileandos sound a lot like Tiel?

Ouch.

Oops...just a random thought...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/9/2011 11:08:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:49:15 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
At 11/9/2011 10:45:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/9/2011 7:47:09 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
At 11/9/2011 7:21:23 PM, Gileandos wrote:
LOL, you guys are funny.

God never told Lot to fork over his daughters.

That was his personal idea to solve the situation. He was not "right" to do this is the only Christian interpretation.

You will note in the story God had a different idea on how to solve the problem.

This was entirely a strawman against God.

Purty much. It's in the Bible. Therefore I analyze.

So, I suppose we shouldn't hate on God... We should just be hating on them there Christians with their forcin' of faith on other people and the condemnin' of the homosexuals and oppressin' of women and whatnots.

You yourself are equally guilty of forcing your moral code on people.

You force your "higher" moral code on pedophiles and lock them into a little cage.
You do the same and force your "higher" moral codes upon the rapist and lock him away too.

For shame for your hypocrisy.

The only difference between you and I, I have a transcendent objective moral value system.
I have a transcendent value system I can point to that does not rely upon my personal subjective opinion.

God is not wrong to deal harshly with those who oppose him.
You do the same.

I completely agree with you that pedophiles and rapists should be treated to the full penalty we can impose.

Why are you hating on God for including homsexuals on the list? What makes you more right than God to not discriminate against deviants when you do the same?

Because if someone wants to have sex with another male or female they aren't harming each other or anyone else. If a man or woman has sex with a child and the child is unwilling and not within a state to know what it is that is being done to them or deny the adult then it is not consented to by both parties. I live by the law of consent. If they both want it, then it's no harm to me.

The difference was those men were raping the girl. We're not talking about rapists. We're talking about homosexuals.

Now you are stating that your epistomological approach to moral discrimination is better than Gods.

But first the story showed the "men" where going to rape the other men. We are discussing rape in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Did you read the story? You claimed you did.

This was a large group of men (realize cities back then were in the small amounts) that were going around to rape other men.

Second:
As to your epistomological approach what makes you "right" to force your lenient morals upon Christians?
You are just claiming you are right to do so. What "makes" you right?

Third:
God feels that allowing unnatural sexual relationships are a warranted slippery slope that leads a city/nation to become like Sodom and Gomorrah.

By imposing strict relationship guardrails you can avoid becoming like Gibeah and Sodom and Gomorrah.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/9/2011 11:10:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:53:26 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 11/9/2011 10:51:43 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/9/2011 10:49:13 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Has it ever occurred before but doesn't Gileandos sound a lot like Tiel?

Ouch.

Oops...just a random thought...

Are you referring to the gentlemen that believes that life is subjective? What similiarity is there in my defending a transcendent moral values system and a personal subjective one?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/9/2011 11:18:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:51:15 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Well not inherently bad, just shouldn't be married.

1. Gay isn't natural, or proven to be.
2. Definition of marriage is between a man and a woman.

Agreed here as well.
We do see a clear secular argument that homosexuality is unhealthy for the Nation and society.

Families produce strong children.
Any alternate family structure, like fornication, single parents, adultery etc...
produces children that are inherently weaker that must be "made" whole.

By legislating monetary payments and tax breaks from a federal concept we are rewarding postiive family performances with tax breaks and child tax credits etc.

I agree with both the secular conservative view and the Christian moral value system.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/10/2011 12:06:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 10:51:15 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Well not inherently bad, just shouldn't be married.

1. Gay isn't natural, or proven to be.

It happens.. There are clearly gay people.. How is that not natural?

Wait.. Is it.. supernatural? OMFG! MIRACLES!
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Marauder
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11/10/2011 1:48:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 3:38:05 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
are bad.. according to the Bible. Yet it is all right to offer your daughter to a large group of men who intend to rape her to protect a man from homosexual relations...


no, the bible does not say gay's are bad, it say's gay sex is bad. as for people themselves it say's we have all fallen short and are in need of salvation on way or another.

and as for Lots actions, they were not being given as an example of whats okay to do in the bible. even if they were he was not protecting a man from homosexual relations, he was just protecting his guest from rape, putting them ahead of his own needs for his daughters protection.

today that would be messed up as we do not treat our children as much as property as they did in there culture. Instead we give all our care and attention to our old people these days instead of our children. children used to be what men primarily thought of as what they left behind, the most important thing to be left behind. Now instead all they do is expect us to pay for and fix what they leave behind.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/10/2011 2:11:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 7:21:23 PM, Gileandos wrote:
LOL, you guys are funny.

God never told Lot to fork over his daughters.

That was his personal idea to solve the situation. He was not "right" to do this is the only Christian interpretation.

You will note in the story God had a different idea on how to solve the problem.

This was entirely a strawman against God.

Not really because God regards the daughter pimping and daughter fvcking Lot to be an example of a fine and moral man.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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11/10/2011 6:21:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 11:08:38 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/9/2011 10:49:15 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
At 11/9/2011 10:45:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/9/2011 7:47:09 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
At 11/9/2011 7:21:23 PM, Gileandos wrote:
LOL, you guys are funny.

God never told Lot to fork over his daughters.

That was his personal idea to solve the situation. He was not "right" to do this is the only Christian interpretation.

You will note in the story God had a different idea on how to solve the problem.

This was entirely a strawman against God.

Purty much. It's in the Bible. Therefore I analyze.

So, I suppose we shouldn't hate on God... We should just be hating on them there Christians with their forcin' of faith on other people and the condemnin' of the homosexuals and oppressin' of women and whatnots.

You yourself are equally guilty of forcing your moral code on people.

You force your "higher" moral code on pedophiles and lock them into a little cage.
You do the same and force your "higher" moral codes upon the rapist and lock him away too.

For shame for your hypocrisy.

The only difference between you and I, I have a transcendent objective moral value system.
I have a transcendent value system I can point to that does not rely upon my personal subjective opinion.

God is not wrong to deal harshly with those who oppose him.
You do the same.

I completely agree with you that pedophiles and rapists should be treated to the full penalty we can impose.

Why are you hating on God for including homsexuals on the list? What makes you more right than God to not discriminate against deviants when you do the same?

Because if someone wants to have sex with another male or female they aren't harming each other or anyone else. If a man or woman has sex with a child and the child is unwilling and not within a state to know what it is that is being done to them or deny the adult then it is not consented to by both parties. I live by the law of consent. If they both want it, then it's no harm to me.

The difference was those men were raping the girl. We're not talking about rapists. We're talking about homosexuals.

Now you are stating that your epistomological approach to moral discrimination is better than Gods.

But first the story showed the "men" where going to rape the other men. We are discussing rape in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Did you read the story? You claimed you did.

This was a large group of men (realize cities back then were in the small amounts) that were going around to rape other men.

Second:
As to your epistomological approach what makes you "right" to force your lenient morals upon Christians?
You are just claiming you are right to do so. What "makes" you right?


Third:
God feels that allowing unnatural sexual relationships are a warranted slippery slope that leads a city/nation to become like Sodom and Gomorrah.

By imposing strict relationship guardrails you can avoid becoming like Gibeah and Sodom and Gomorrah.

Yes, the men went there to rape the man. But what you stated earlier seemed to lump deviants and rapists together with homosexuals. Again, since there is no proof that there is a God, then I see no issue of comparing my views on morality to a transcendent power that may not even exist.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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11/10/2011 7:15:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 11:18:20 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/9/2011 10:51:15 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Well not inherently bad, just shouldn't be married.

1. Gay isn't natural, or proven to be.
2. Definition of marriage is between a man and a woman.

Agreed here as well.
We do see a clear secular argument that homosexuality is unhealthy for the Nation and society.

Yes, a clear, but poor argument...

Families produce strong children.
Any alternate family structure, like fornication, single parents, adultery etc...
produces children that are inherently weaker that must be "made" whole.

Then why not put divorce and adultery on the same moral level as homosexuality? For that matter, why not make widowers and widows consolidate households?

Also, where is the evidence that children from these homes are any "weaker" than ones from more traditional households? In fact, would it not seem that these children succeed in the face of hardship and are therefore actually stronger?

And furthermore, where is the evidence that gay households produce weaker children than straight households? So many children are raised in households with a father and uncle or mother and grandmother that there really is no qualitative difference between "gay" and "straight" rearing.

By legislating monetary payments and tax breaks from a federal concept we are rewarding postiive family performances with tax breaks and child tax credits etc.

Right, cause that's a solution to the problem - throw money at it... You do realize that this model rewards only those who are already conforming with the model? Best-case scenario, nobody is really going to change their core beliefs for a bit of a tax break... worst-case scenario, the system encourages falsity for monetary gain... which is colloquially known as fraud.
Gileandos
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11/10/2011 8:20:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 2:11:51 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/9/2011 7:21:23 PM, Gileandos wrote:
LOL, you guys are funny.

God never told Lot to fork over his daughters.

That was his personal idea to solve the situation. He was not "right" to do this is the only Christian interpretation.

You will note in the story God had a different idea on how to solve the problem.

This was entirely a strawman against God.

Not really because God regards the daughter pimping and daughter fvcking Lot to be an example of a fine and moral man.

As Marauder pointed out, Lot's choice was not an example of correct choice. He was also not pimping out his daughter. He was trying to protect the Angels from the gang rape about to happen to them.

Now clearly God does not tell us to give our daughters to the gang rapists to protect visiting angels.

Marauder also rightly points out that women were less valuable then men also children were less valuable in that culture than older men.

This you may not agree with but Lot viewed it that way.

The Angels however did clearly know the right action. They blinded the men in the short term then lit up the rapists with a great ball of fire from Heaven. God was clear on how to deal with rapists.

Lot was wrong.