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Feeding the Trolls.

JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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5/8/2009 9:21:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I have decided that I shall feed the trolls but only in the context of a debate challenge. If the trolls want to make statements of creationist and other idiotic rhetoric, then I will be glad to debunk this nonsense and expose it for the lackluster reasoning it is.

However, any subsequent post I see from a troll that reiterates a point that has been completely rebutted and does not add any sort of intelligible criteria to the point, I will report it as spam.

If it is a completely worthless and dogmatic post (example: a bible verse and nothing else), I will report it as advertising, and depending on content, harassment, hate content, pornography, or even violence/threats.

Examples:

"12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

Violence.

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God.""

Insulting & harassment.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord."

Advertisement.

You get the picture? Yes, I'm feeding the troll, but feeding it things it can only eat once.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/8/2009 9:49:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
This seems like a very good proposal. I'm for it.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 5:50:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/8/2009 9:21:33 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
I have decided that I shall feed the trolls but only in the context of a debate challenge. If the trolls want to make statements of creationist and other idiotic rhetoric, then I will be glad to debunk this nonsense and expose it for the lackluster reasoning it is.

However, any subsequent post I see from a troll that reiterates a point that has been completely rebutted and does not add any sort of intelligible criteria to the point, I will report it as spam.

If it is a completely worthless and dogmatic post (example: a bible verse and nothing else), I will report it as advertising, and depending on content, harassment, hate content, pornography, or even violence/threats.

Examples:

"12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

Violence.

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God.""

Insulting & harassment.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord."

Advertisement.

You get the picture? Yes, I'm feeding the troll, but feeding it things it can only eat once.

You, Tarzan calling other people trolls is nothing short of HILARIOUS!
You are the troll of debate.org!
Your pathetic little threats scare me not ONE bit.. I shall carry on JUST as I am.
@Everyone else. Is it not strange to you that AnimeFanTony has not been hounding my every post the last few days? just when JCMT turns up!
He's been taking you guys for a bunch of mugs. As I've always said it shows what a bunch of credulous fools atheists/evolutionists really are.. I saw him coming every time. (and he knows it!)

Psalm 14 (New King James Version)

1 The fool has said in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.

2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call on the LORD?
5 There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous.
6 You shame the counsel of the poor,
But the LORD is his refuge.

7 Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion!
When the LORD brings back the captivity of His people,
Let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 12:23:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 9:44:58 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 5/9/2009 5:50:02 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
<insert garbage>

Reported as harassment/spam.

I'm sure the Christian owners will be horrorfied.
You hate the Word of God because hate the Truth.
You tried everything to beat me. You've failed.

Matthew 12:30 (King James Version)
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 12:40:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 12:33:34 PM, Forum_Moderator wrote:
At 5/9/2009 12:23:01 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:

If you continue posting on these forums in a manner that is abusive to the members of this forum, I will suspend your account. You have been warned. Thank you.

Will not upload, copy, distribute, share, or otherwise use Content that is unlawful, obscene, defamatory, libelous, harmful, hateful, harassing, pornographic, threatening, racially or ethnically offensive, abusive, that would violate another person's rights, constitute or encourage a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or violate any local, state, national, or international law or regulation, or that is otherwise inappropriate.Will follow the following rules while participating on the site. Any disregard for these rules or any of the other terms or guidelines may result in termination of a member's account.

1. No use of profanities or swear words.
2. No personal attacks against other members or a member's opinions.
3. No use of racial, sexual or religious slurs.
4. No threats or implications thereof.

You are getting really quite desparate aren't you?
JustCallMeTarzan is the BIGGEST rule breaker on this site.. He's a poor loser and a TROLL. You've lost. Get over it.

Matthew 12:30 (The Message)
"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 12:52:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 12:46:47 PM, Forum_Moderator wrote:
If you continue to repeatedly violate the terms of service by insulting other members, you will be removed. Do not test me.

You're a joke. I've reported this account. This really must be about the end of the line for you isn't it?
I mean, where can you go from here?

Matthew 12:30 (The Message)
"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.
The Cross.. the Cross.
brycef
Posts: 160
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5/9/2009 12:53:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
DATCMOTO or any other fundamentalists:
1. My father's an atheist, as are many of my closest friends. Let's say I converted to Christianity, or Islam, or whatever, and made it to heaven; how could I possibly consider it paradise knowing that the people closest to me were being tortured?
Also, how could you believe that some of the greatest figures in history, like Mahatma Gandhi, a hindu, or Aung San Suu Kyi, a Buddhist, would go to hell, while some of the worst, like Adolf Hitler, a Christian, or Osama Bin Laden, a Muslim, would go to heaven?
2. I realize that there's a lot about the universe I can't know; why should I make a huge leap of faith and just assume that there's a divine being there? To call it illogical would be such a horrendous understatement that it's not even worth labeling it as such. Why not just fill that void with the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It seems equally valid.
3. How do you know that you're not wrong, and that Tengri, the Central Asian sky god, isn't the real god? The majority of Americans today are Christians, so it's statistically probable that you'd be a Christian. But in the dark ages, the majority of the tribal people in what is now Mongolia were Tengerists/Tengriists, and if you had been there back then, you most likely would have been too. Is it really fair to say that everyone from that time period and location deserved to go to hell, even though the majority of their fellows shared their religion? Is it really fair to say that most Christians today will go to Heaven, even though most are only Christian because they were raised as such? What's the difference?
4. The process of natural selection is easily observable - in one generation, the most visible members of a population of rodents will most likely be killed off by predators, and in that generation, only the most well-camouflaged members of the population will be able to pass on their genes. The next generation will be much harder to see, having inherited their parents' fur patterns, and thus will live longer. How do you refute natural selection, and by extension evolution?
5. How do you explain the resemblance between Jesus Christ and various other early religious figures, including Osiris? Also, how can you say that the great flood was an Abrahamic myth, when similar stories were created in various other parts of the world?
6. Jesus proclaimed himself the son of god, but so did Charles Manson. If you believe Jesus when he says that he is the son of god, then why don't you believe Charles Manson? He had a group of devoted followers too, dedicated himself to teaching them, and faced great adversity for his beliefs. Why aren't you a Mansonist?
7. We now understand the horrific effects inbreeding has on DNA. Considering the knowledge we now possess of those effects, how can we possibly be the descendants of a single family (that being Noah's, and earlier Adam and Eve's)?
8. How can you explain the gap in time from when Jesus died to when the gospels were written?
9. I understand that god had to give humanity the choice to rebel in order to test its true love for Him. However, why would He make humans so flawed as to willingly choose damnation? Wouldn't he make them righteous enough to know to choose the correct path willingly? If we're created in His image, then wouldn't we be as flawless as He is, and thus be incapable of sin?
10. If god is omniscient, then why would He create satan? He would've known that satan would rebel against Him, so why would a being as perfect as Him be so sadistic as to create a torturer?

I realize that many of these questions are commonplace, but I've yet to hear satisfying responses to any of them.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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5/9/2009 1:13:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 12:48:06 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
If you're the moderator, surely you'd be able to tell me my last name via PM.

You mean it isn't Daniel Private?
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 1:48:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 12:53:04 PM, brycef wrote:
DATCMOTO or any other fundamentalists:
1. My father's an atheist, as are many of my closest friends. Let's say I converted to Christianity, or Islam, or whatever, and made it to heaven; how could I possibly consider it paradise knowing that the people closest to me were being tortured?
Also, how could you believe that some of the greatest figures in history, like Mahatma Gandhi, a hindu, or Aung San Suu Kyi, a Buddhist, would go to hell, while some of the worst, like Adolf Hitler, a Christian, or Osama Bin Laden, a Muslim, would go to heaven?
At last.. a little conversation!
Do you now stay awake at night worrying yourself sick about all the muderers and rapists rotting away in prisons? No, because you agree that, for the most part, they deserve to be there.
When or if you ever reach the place where you can enter into eternal Life you will feel the same way about those lost souls in hell.
It is NOT 'good people go to heaven and bad to hell' because:
Romans 3:23 (New International Version)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Only forgiven people attain eternal life.
2. I realize that there's a lot about the universe I can't know; why should I make a huge leap of faith and just assume that there's a divine being there? To call it illogical would be such a horrendous understatement that it's not even worth labeling it as such. Why not just fill that void with the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It seems equally valid.
Because you know the FSM is a fiction created expressly to antagonise believers.
I think the best place to start is to say in your heart that you want the truth.. Whatever that is.
John 8:32 (New King James Version)
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

3. How do you know that you're not wrong, and that Tengri, the Central Asian sky god, isn't the real god? The majority of Americans today are Christians, so it's statistically probable that you'd be a Christian. But in the dark ages, the majority of the tribal people in what is now Mongolia were Tengerists/Tengriists, and if you had been there back then, you most likely would have been too. Is it really fair to say that everyone from that time period and location deserved to go to hell, even though the majority of their fellows shared their religion? Is it really fair to say that most Christians today will go to Heaven, even though most are only Christian because they were raised as such? What's the difference?
Every man will be judged by his own conscience BUT you do know about Christ, any attempt to justify disbelief through this logic is simply 'looking for a loophole'.. if I can see through it at once, how much more can God?
1 Timothy 2:5 (New King James Version)
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

4. The process of natural selection is easily observable - in one generation, the most visible members of a population of rodents will most likely be killed off by predators, and in that generation, only the most well-camouflaged members of the population will be able to pass on their genes. The next generation will be much harder to see, having inherited their parents' fur patterns, and thus will live longer. How do you refute natural selection, and by extension evolution?
Natural selection exists.. adaptation and variation exist. No one kind of animal has ever turned into another kind. There's absolutely ZERO evidence for so-called macro evolution. Much more important is to understand the motive behind it, to negate Gods Word.
Hebrews 11:3 (New King James Version)
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

5. How do you explain the resemblance between Jesus Christ and various other early religious figures, including Osiris? Also, how can you say that the great flood was an Abrahamic myth, when similar stories were created in various other parts of the world?
Satan is a counterfeiter.. that about all he does. That's what cults like mormonism and Jehovahs witnesses are.. Counterfeits. Same with the myths.
The flood is no myth it's historical fact so the fact that it shows up in other cultures is no surprise. Same with dinosaurs.. most cultures have dragon myths.
2 Corinthians 11:14 (New King James Version)
And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

6. Jesus proclaimed himself the son of god, but so did Charles Manson. If you believe Jesus when he says that he is the son of god, then why don't you believe Charles Manson? He had a group of devoted followers too, dedicated himself to teaching them, and faced great adversity for his beliefs. Why aren't you a Mansonist?
Because Charles Manson killed (actually, got women to do his dirty work for him) for what he believed in (HIMSELF) And Jesus Christ died for what He believed in. (YOU)
Charlie was only big and important to damaged and abused women. You or I would have laughed in his face.
Psalm 120:2 (New King James Version)
Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips
And from a deceitful tongue.

7. We now understand the horrific effects inbreeding has on DNA. Considering the knowledge we now possess of those effects, how can we possibly be the descendants of a single family (that being Noah's, and earlier Adam and Eve's)?
We are a genetic copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a (you get the idea)
The only reason we cannot inbreed is because of genetic degradation.
That would not have been a problem for the first people as they were genetically pure.
Compare this with the ridiculous notion that 'nothing exploded and arranged itself in time/space/matter.. matter into elements.. planets.. rain on rocks became soup which became.. LIFE! and from a single cell amoeba you get.. us.'
Genesis 1:1 (New King James Version)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

8. How can you explain the gap in time from when Jesus died to when the gospels were written?
No one knows when they were written.. only when the earliest manuscripts date from. There is more historical evidence for the Gospels than for any other event.. by far.
Hebrews 4:12 (New King James Version)
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


9. I understand that god had to give humanity the choice to rebel in order to test its true love for Him. However, why would He make humans so flawed as to willingly choose damnation? Wouldn't he make them righteous enough to know to choose the correct path willingly? If we're created in His image, then wouldn't we be as flawless as He is, and thus be incapable of sin?
10. If god is omniscient, then why would He create satan? He would've known that satan would rebel against Him, so why would a being as perfect as Him be so sadistic as to create a torturer?
Free will. Without it He can only create robots.
I realize that many of these questions are commonplace, but I've yet to hear satisfying responses to any of them.
These are all excellent questions that cut straight to the heart of Christianity.
Matthew 12:30 (The Message)
"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 2:18:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 12:46:47 PM, Forum_Moderator wrote:
If you continue to repeatedly violate the terms of service by insulting other members, you will be removed. Do not test me.

I'm testing you! show me your great power O mighty moderator!

What is the point of these masks that you can only wear for a day or two?

Be a man.. be yourself. Build a reputation. Stick by your word.

2 Corinthians 10:5 (New King James Version)
casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
The Cross.. the Cross.
brycef
Posts: 160
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5/9/2009 2:20:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 1:48:51 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Do you now stay awake at night worrying yourself sick about all the muderers and rapists rotting away in prisons? No, because you agree that, for the most part, they deserve to be there.
When or if you ever reach the place where you can enter into eternal Life you will feel the same way about those lost souls in hell.
It is NOT 'good people go to heaven and bad to hell' because:
Romans 3:23 (New International Version)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Only forgiven people attain eternal life.
So, it doesn't matter if we all become murderers, just so long as we give ourselves to Christ? That completely devalues living a moral life. It means that no matter how much good you do here, you may still go to hell, while people who have committed the worst crimes against humanity may still be destined for heaven.
Because you know the FSM is a fiction created expressly to antagonise believers.
I think the best place to start is to say in your heart that you want the truth.. Whatever that is.
John 8:32 (New King James Version)
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

The entire faith of Satanism is predicated on the belief that one should give into their most primal urges, and look within. If acting on the ways of your heart lead to to god, then since Satan exists in the beast mentality, wouldn't that make the way of Satan also the way of god?
Every man will be judged by his own conscience BUT you do know about Christ, any attempt to justify disbelief through this logic is simply 'looking for a loophole'.. if I can see through it at once, how much more can God?
1 Timothy 2:5 (New King James Version)
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

This results in the damnation of one group of people for following tradition, and exalts another. That's a double standard.
Natural selection exists.. adaptation and variation exist. No one kind of animal has ever turned into another kind. There's absolutely ZERO evidence for so-called macro evolution. Much more important is to understand the motive behind it, to negate Gods Word.
Hebrews 11:3 (New King James Version)
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

What do you think happens to a species after hundreds of millions of years of natural selection? These different adaptations pile on each other.
Satan is a counterfeiter.. that about all he does. That's what cults like mormonism and Jehovahs witnesses are.. Counterfeits. Same with the myths.
The flood is no myth it's historical fact so the fact that it shows up in other cultures is no surprise. Same with dinosaurs.. most cultures have dragon myths.
2 Corinthians 11:14 (New King James Version)
And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

Then how do you know your faith isn't just another lie he created?
Because Charles Manson killed (actually, got women to do his dirty work for him) for what he believed in (HIMSELF) And Jesus Christ died for what He believed in. (YOU)
Charlie was only big and important to damaged and abused women. You or I would have laughed in his face.
Psalm 120:2 (New King James Version)
Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips
And from a deceitful tongue.

Manson's followers killed people, but the Christian God's did too, most famously in the crusades and the inquisition.
The only reason we cannot inbreed is because of genetic degradation.
That would not have been a problem for the first people as they were genetically pure.
Compare this with the ridiculous notion that 'nothing exploded and arranged itself in time/space/matter.. matter into elements.. planets.. rain on rocks became soup which became.. LIFE! and from a single cell amoeba you get.. us.'
Genesis 1:1 (New King James Version)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

If it's ridiculous to say that we originated from single-celled organisms, than why isn't it ridiculous to say that we came from a fully-formed invisible man?
No one knows when they were written.. only when the earliest manuscripts date from. There is more historical evidence for the Gospels than for any other event.. by far.
Hebrews 4:12 (New King James Version)
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



What are you basing that claim on? The Quraan's vague "predictions" and records have just as much support as the bible's.
Free will. Without it He can only create robots.
Then why did He have to introduce misery into the world as the alternative? If he really wanted to give his creations free will, then why not make the other options more appealing? Giving people the ultimatum of either following him or suffering doesn't seem like a very even set of choices. Also, this leaves the possibility that people will follow him not out of love, but out of fear. According to Pascal's wager, a person should be a Christian because they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Surely people will become Christians for safety reasons, rather than out of any real devotion
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 2:47:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 2:21:30 PM, Forum_Moderator wrote:
Be a man.. be yourself. Build a reputation. Stick by your word.

A man does not go about using a religion to make himself seem superior. The Bible isn't your little play thing to use to your own personal advantage. It's a tool for understanding God. I suggest you read up on the word "humility" and its uses throughout the Bible instead of trumpeting around a faith that you appear not to follow.

Do you not understand that unless you stake out a claim for yourself in a legitimate account then whatever you say is utterly meaningless..
You're a liar. Which means that even if every word you've just said were completely true you have still wasted your breath.
You've nothing left to throw at me.
You imply pride where strength exists. Not my own strength but strength in Him, in His Word.
You are a slave to the enemy.. he's run you a merry race has he not? you must be getting kinda tired.
I'm just getting warmed up.

1 John 5:12 (New King James Version)
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

The Cross.. the Cross.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/9/2009 2:52:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 1:48:51 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At last.. a little conversation!
Do you now stay awake at night worrying yourself sick about all the muderers and rapists rotting away in prisons? No, because you agree that, for the most part, they deserve to be there.
When or if you ever reach the place where you can enter into eternal Life you will feel the same way about those lost souls in hell.
It is NOT 'good people go to heaven and bad to hell' because:
Romans 3:23 (New International Version)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Only forgiven people attain eternal life.

DATC, this is a load of bs. You feel that Gandhi should BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY just because he wasn't Christian? What a hateful, egotistical, unfair god. DON'T YOU EVER COMPARE GANDHI TO A MURDERER OR RAPIST.

Because you know the FSM is a fiction created expressly to antagonise believers.
I think the best place to start is to say in your heart that you want the truth.. Whatever that is.
John 8:32 (New King James Version)
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."


You could say the same thing for the Bible. Instead it puts fear into the hearts of believers.

Every man will be judged by his own conscience BUT you do know about Christ, any attempt to justify disbelief through this logic is simply 'looking for a loophole'.. if I can see through it at once, how much more can God?
1 Timothy 2:5 (New King James Version)
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,


You just used a loophole. You didn't answer how someone who has lived their whole life never hearing anything about Christ and what happens to them.

Natural selection exists.. adaptation and variation exist. No one kind of animal has ever turned into another kind. There's absolutely ZERO evidence for so-called macro evolution. Much more important is to understand the motive behind it, to negate Gods Word.

I somewhat agree with this.

Satan is a counterfeiter.. that about all he does. That's what cults like mormonism and Jehovahs witnesses are.. Counterfeits. Same with the myths.
The flood is no myth it's historical fact so the fact that it shows up in other cultures is no surprise. Same with dinosaurs.. most cultures have dragon myths.
2 Corinthians 11:14 (New King James Version)
And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.


Not possible. The Sumerian tablets predate the Creation of the Earth and Satan according to the Bible. So Satan wasn't around to forge those.

Because Charles Manson killed (actually, got women to do his dirty work for him) for what he believed in (HIMSELF) And Jesus Christ died for what He believed in. (YOU)
Charlie was only big and important to damaged and abused women. You or I would have laughed in his face.

God has committed more atrocities than Charles Manson's persuasion.

We are a genetic copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a (you get the idea)
The only reason we cannot inbreed is because of genetic degradation.
That would not have been a problem for the first people as they were genetically pure.
Compare this with the ridiculous notion that 'nothing exploded and arranged itself in time/space/matter.. matter into elements.. planets.. rain on rocks became soup which became.. LIFE! and from a single cell amoeba you get.. us.'

This makes no sense. We are a copy of a copy of a copy of God. Wtf.

No one knows when they were written.. only when the earliest manuscripts date from. There is more historical evidence for the Gospels than for any other event.. by far.

No.

Free will. Without it He can only create robots.

We don't have free will under god's strict rules.

These are all excellent questions that cut straight to the heart of Christianity.
Matthew 12:30 (The Message)
"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.


And you didn't give adequate answers.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 4:07:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 2:20:29 PM, brycef wrote:
So, it doesn't matter if we all become murderers, just so long as we give ourselves to Christ? That completely devalues living a moral life. It means that no matter how much good you do here, you may still go to hell, while people who have committed the worst crimes against humanity may still be destined for heaven.
I've got news for you, you are a murderer.. and so am I. We cannot judge ourselves by our own 20th century subjective logic. Christ showed us that if we even hate our fellow man (we all have) we have as good as murdered him. God is utterly Holy and utterly just.
Matthew 5:21-22 (New King James Version)
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause[b] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

The entire faith of Satanism is predicated on the belief that one should give into their most primal urges, and look within. If acting on the ways of your heart lead to to god, then since Satan exists in the beast mentality, wouldn't that make the way of Satan also the way of god?
The opposite. God's Word teaches us to deny ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Him. Satan promises pleasure but only delivers sin and death.
1 Peter 5:8-9 (New King James Version)
Be sober, be vigilant; because[a] your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

This results in the damnation of one group of people for following tradition, and exalts another. That's a double standard.
It certainly is not. Again, you may not, cannot, hope to judge these things with your own sinful mind. Our minds are 'darkened' until God 'switches a light' on for us. Ask Him to.
Psalm 34:6 (New King James Version)
This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him,
And saved him out of all his troubles.

What do you think happens to a species after hundreds of millions of years of natural selection? These different adaptations pile on each other.
But the earth is only 6000 years old. Again, the motive for an old earth theory is to support evolution.. not the other way around. Because without billions of years it looks even more silly than it already does.
Genesis 1:25 (New King James Version)
And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Then how do you know your faith isn't just another lie he created?
Many many reasons. Not least of which Jesus Christ has spoken to me personally.. on a number of occasions. It's kinds like being in love.. you just know.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (New King James Version)
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Manson's followers killed people, but the Christian God's did too, most famously in the crusades and the inquisition.
Right. To me that shows that Manson, the inquisition and the crusades are all the enemy. He loves people to kill and maim in the name of Christ. That's why there's been so much of it. You didn't think he was gonna play fair did you?
1 John 5:19 (New King James Version)
We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

If it's ridiculous to say that we originated from single-celled organisms, than why isn't it ridiculous to say that we came from a fully-formed invisible man?
No one does. We say we were Created by God, a being of unimaginable power and grace and truth. God is GOOD! That's the good news! He loves us, He's died for us.
Revelation 1:5 (New King James Version)
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed[a] us from our sins in His own blood,

No one knows when they were written.. only when the earliest manuscripts date from. There is more historical evidence for the Gospels than for any other event.. by far.
basing that claim on? The Quraan's vague "predictions" and records have just as much support as the bible's.
No. There are over 5000 manuscripts of the new testament (written 40-100ad) going back as early as 130ad, so only a time lapse of 30 years.
The next comparible document is Livys Roman history, (written 59bc-17ad) the earliest copy being 900ad.. a lapse of 950 years and only 9 or 10 copies.
Not even close.
Isaiah 55:10-11 (New King James Version)
" For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Free will. Without it He can only create robots.
Then why did He have to introduce misery into the world as the alternative? If he really wanted to give his creations free will, then why not make the other options more appealing? Giving people the ultimatum of either following him or suffering doesn't seem like a very even set of choices. Also, this leaves the possibility that people will follow him not out of love, but out of fear. According to Pascal's wager, a person should be a Christian because they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Surely people will become Christians for safety reasons, rather than out of any real devotion

This is a very intersting point and one I find myself trying to explain often.
People often imagine that God can just simple 'magic everything perfect'..
He cannot.
His only restriction is His own nature.
God is utterly Holy. Utterly Just. God is love. God is Truth. God is life.
To reject Him (as Adam did) is to reject all of these things.
So how can we go elsewhere? There is nothing else.
Walking away from God is simply walking into darkness.. into nothingness.. into death.
There's no way round this. He will have His way with you or without you.
His plan is, and always has been, for you to live eternally in perpetual joy.

John 3:16-17 (New King James Version)
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/9/2009 4:13:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 12:50:12 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
Alright, I'm convinced.

*removed in double quick time*

John 3:16-17 (New King James Version)
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
The Cross.. the Cross.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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5/9/2009 6:43:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 12:52:26 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/9/2009 12:46:47 PM, Forum_Moderator wrote:
If you continue to repeatedly violate the terms of service by insulting other members, you will be removed. Do not test me.

You're a joke. I've reported this account. This really must be about the end of the line for you isn't it?
I mean, where can you go from here?


Matthew 12:30 (The Message)
"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.


Your continuing idiocy never ceases to amaze me... you don't honestly think that I run... what is it now.. some seven or eight other accounts, including ones that haven't been deleted???

Apparently you can't read:

"Will not create more than one account."

"Will not impersonate any person or entity, including without limitation Debate.org officials, staff, and/or Members."

Do you REALLY think that the owners of the site would leave my JCMT account open if I had opened other accounts? Really? Are you THAT paranoid?
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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5/9/2009 6:49:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Do you REALLY think that the owners of the site would leave my JCMT account open if I had opened other accounts? Really? Are you THAT paranoid?

Never underestimate the DATCMOTO!
pcmbrown
Posts: 198
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5/10/2009 5:48:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 2:52:15 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/9/2009 1:48:51 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At last.. a little conversation!
Do you now stay awake at night worrying yourself sick about all the muderers and rapists rotting away in prisons? No, because you agree that, for the most part, they deserve to be there.
When or if you ever reach the place where you can enter into eternal Life you will feel the same way about those lost souls in hell.
It is NOT 'good people go to heaven and bad to hell' because:
Romans 3:23 (New International Version)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Only forgiven people attain eternal life.

DATC, this is a load of bs. You feel that Gandhi should BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY just because he wasn't Christian? What a hateful, egotistical, unfair god. DON'T YOU EVER COMPARE GANDHI TO A MURDERER OR RAPIST.

Because you know the FSM is a fiction created expressly to antagonise believers.
I think the best place to start is to say in your heart that you want the truth.. Whatever that is.
John 8:32 (New King James Version)
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."


You could say the same thing for the Bible. Instead it puts fear into the hearts of believers.

Every man will be judged by his own conscience BUT you do know about Christ, any attempt to justify disbelief through this logic is simply 'looking for a loophole'.. if I can see through it at once, how much more can God?
1 Timothy 2:5 (New King James Version)
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,


You just used a loophole. You didn't answer how someone who has lived their whole life never hearing anything about Christ and what happens to them.

Natural selection exists.. adaptation and variation exist. No one kind of animal has ever turned into another kind. There's absolutely ZERO evidence for so-called macro evolution. Much more important is to understand the motive behind it, to negate Gods Word.

I somewhat agree with this.

Satan is a counterfeiter.. that about all he does. That's what cults like mormonism and Jehovahs witnesses are.. Counterfeits. Same with the myths.
The flood is no myth it's historical fact so the fact that it shows up in other cultures is no surprise. Same with dinosaurs.. most cultures have dragon myths.
2 Corinthians 11:14 (New King James Version)
And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.


Not possible. The Sumerian tablets predate the Creation of the Earth and Satan according to the Bible. So Satan wasn't around to forge those.

Because Charles Manson killed (actually, got women to do his dirty work for him) for what he believed in (HIMSELF) And Jesus Christ died for what He believed in. (YOU)
Charlie was only big and important to damaged and abused women. You or I would have laughed in his face.

God has committed more atrocities than Charles Manson's persuasion.


We are a genetic copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a (you get the idea)
The only reason we cannot inbreed is because of genetic degradation.
That would not have been a problem for the first people as they were genetically pure.
Compare this with the ridiculous notion that 'nothing exploded and arranged itself in time/space/matter.. matter into elements.. planets.. rain on rocks became soup which became.. LIFE! and from a single cell amoeba you get.. us.'

This makes no sense. We are a copy of a copy of a copy of God. Wtf.


No one knows when they were written.. only when the earliest manuscripts date from. There is more historical evidence for the Gospels than for any other event.. by far.

No.

Free will. Without it He can only create robots.

We don't have free will under god's strict rules.

These are all excellent questions that cut straight to the heart of Christianity.
Matthew 12:30 (The Message)
"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.


And you didn't give adequate answers.


.

Gandhi cheated on his wife, and was a hypocrite.
"Did I shock you with this discovery.? Of curse not..!!"-banker
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/10/2009 5:57:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/10/2009 5:48:56 PM, pcmbrown wrote:
Gandhi cheated on his wife, and was a hypocrite.

Haha, do Buddhists have beef with Hindus or something? Everyone does something hypocritical in their lifetime. Gandhi has done nothing but good. If it is true that he cheated on his wife, that is a personal issue that should not be held against him. Even still, it's not a crime.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/11/2009 7:01:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/10/2009 5:57:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Haha, do Buddhists have beef with Hindus or something?

I would think not, because neither Buddhists nor Hindus eat beef XD
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/12/2009 6:29:21 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/9/2009 6:43:57 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 5/9/2009 12:52:26 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/9/2009 12:46:47 PM, Forum_Moderator wrote:
If you continue to repeatedly violate the terms of service by insulting other members, you will be removed. Do not test me.

You're a joke. I've reported this account. This really must be about the end of the line for you isn't it?
I mean, where can you go from here?


Matthew 12:30 (The Message)
"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.


Your continuing idiocy never ceases to amaze me... you don't honestly think that I run... what is it now.. some seven or eight other accounts, including ones that haven't been deleted???
You've mostly run one or two at the same time (where is AnimeTony?)
Apparently you can't read:

"Will not create more than one account."

"Will not impersonate any person or entity, including without limitation Debate.org officials, staff, and/or Members."

Do you REALLY think that the owners of the site would leave my JCMT account open if I had opened other accounts? Really? Are you THAT paranoid?

No one who was innocent would react this way.. no one who was innocent would waste time on illogical rubbish like posting DDO rules.. as if this proves anything! someones trolling so someones breaking the rules!

You're a troll. And a bad one.

Psalm 120:2 (New King James Version)

Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips
And from a deceitful tongue.
The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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5/12/2009 6:50:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Apparently DATCMOTO has never heard of Askbob/ scissors.

Tell me, Datc, what do you honestly gain from being here? Sure, there are a few forum games, they're fun, but in your whole show of preaching and conversion, you have no gotten one convert in the past 2-3 months. You are probably the worst missionary ever.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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5/12/2009 11:34:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 6:29:21 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

No one who was innocent would react this way.. no one who was innocent would waste time on illogical rubbish like posting DDO rules.. as if this proves anything! someones trolling so someones breaking the rules!

And yet again, our friend DAT shows his complete lack of anything approaching a modicum of intelligence... When presented with evidence against your position, you simply shout louder. How interesting.

You're a troll. And a bad one.

BAHHAAAA!! Coming from YOU?

Psalm 120:2 (New King James Version)

Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips
And from a deceitful tongue.


Proverbs 23:9: (KJV)
"Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words."


Oops.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/12/2009 1:12:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 11:34:54 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 5/12/2009 6:29:21 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

No one who was innocent would react this way.. no one who was innocent would waste time on illogical rubbish like posting DDO rules.. as if this proves anything! someones trolling so someones breaking the rules!

And yet again, our friend DAT shows his complete lack of anything approaching a modicum of intelligence... When presented with evidence against your position, you simply shout louder. How interesting.


You're a troll. And a bad one.

BAHHAAAA!! Coming from YOU?
"When presented with evidence against your position, you simply shout louder. How interesting. "
Psalm 120:2 (New King James Version)

Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips
And from a deceitful tongue.


Proverbs 23:9: (KJV)
"Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words."


Oops.

I don't think your a fool, I think your on the ropes and have been ever since I joined here. Even though the vote went your way on our debates you got seriously rattled for probably the first time. Hence your campaign against me.
You are a troll. A nasty piece of a work. but no fool. And I harbour no ill will against you what so ever. That does not mean I'm go soft on you.
Your position is untenable. You are wrong and I am right.

1 John 2:22 (New King James Version)
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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5/12/2009 1:14:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Datc, answer my question. Post what you want to save face here, but you know what the true answer in your heart is.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/12/2009 2:20:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 1:14:12 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Datc, answer my question. Post what you want to save face here, but you know what the true answer in your heart is.

It wasn't a question, it was a rhetorical attack diguised as a question.
As your above statement shows.
You play your little pseudo intellectual make out games and I'll fight the good fight.

John 5:28-29 (The Message)

28-29"Don't act so surprised at all this. The time is coming when everyone dead and buried will hear his voice. Those who have lived the right way will walk out into a resurrection Life; those who have lived the wrong way, into a resurrection Judgment.
The Cross.. the Cross.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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5/12/2009 2:40:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 1:12:18 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:

I don't think your a fool, I think your on the ropes and have been ever since I joined here. Even though the vote went your way on our debates you got seriously rattled for probably the first time. Hence your campaign against me.

The only time I was seriously rattled was about 2 years ago when I realized I had been lied to for literally more than half my life.

You are a troll. A nasty piece of a work. but no fool. And I harbour no ill will against you what so ever. That does not mean I'm go soft on you.
Your position is untenable. You are wrong and I am right.

Untenable? Let me tell you what is untenable... a position with no way to verify it's truth value is untenable...