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Paterno Apologetics

izbo10
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11/9/2011 2:09:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If anyone doesn't Know Joe Paterno is head coach of Penn State University, and is currently caught up in a scandal where there was an apparent cover up of his long time defensive coordinator molesting young boys. Paterno was aware and has been accused of not doing enough to stop it and not contacting legal authorities to stop it.

I Propose that Joe Paterno gave his coaches free will and to act on this would be a direct violation of free will. There is no way for us to know that Paterno did not know that allowing this would allow a greater good . How could we know that he didn't have greater reasons for allowing this to happen.

So, as a Theist, do you really find this reasoning remotely acceptable? No, didn't think so. You still feel he was morally obligated to do more right?

So with that said, why did your god sit there and let this happen, he would have obviously known about it, he could have acted to stop it, why did he not do so?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/9/2011 4:11:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Where are the theists, what doesn't free will work when put in a real world situation?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
TeenageApologist
Posts: 54
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11/11/2011 7:52:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/9/2011 2:09:13 PM, izbo10 wrote:
If anyone doesn't Know Joe Paterno is head coach of Penn State University, and is currently caught up in a scandal where there was an apparent cover up of his long time defensive coordinator molesting young boys. Paterno was aware and has been accused of not doing enough to stop it and not contacting legal authorities to stop it.

I Propose that Joe Paterno gave his coaches free will and to act on this would be a direct violation of free will. There is no way for us to know that Paterno did not know that allowing this would allow a greater good . How could we know that he didn't have greater reasons for allowing this to happen.

So, as a Theist, do you really find this reasoning remotely acceptable? No, didn't think so. You still feel he was morally obligated to do more right?

So with that said, why did your god sit there and let this happen, he would have obviously known about it, he could have acted to stop it, why did he not do so?

Your comparison is fallacious, Joe Paterno does not have attributes of God. As legendary as the Penn State coach may have been, I fail to see how God's attributes are applicable. I do feel he was morally obligated to do more right because he is a human just like you or me. I do believe that the evil and suffering is in the grand scheme of things. Neither of us understand why God would allow evil, but does that disprove God? How is it that evil and God are logically incompatible? There is no explicit contradiction between the two, now if they are some hidden premises that God and evil contradict each other we need to address them.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/11/2011 8:08:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The ways of Joe are mysterious, who are we to judge him ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/11/2011 8:30:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 7:52:00 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/9/2011 2:09:13 PM, izbo10 wrote:
If anyone doesn't Know Joe Paterno is head coach of Penn State University, and is currently caught up in a scandal where there was an apparent cover up of his long time defensive coordinator molesting young boys. Paterno was aware and has been accused of not doing enough to stop it and not contacting legal authorities to stop it.

I Propose that Joe Paterno gave his coaches free will and to act on this would be a direct violation of free will. There is no way for us to know that Paterno did not know that allowing this would allow a greater good . How could we know that he didn't have greater reasons for allowing this to happen.

So, as a Theist, do you really find this reasoning remotely acceptable? No, didn't think so. You still feel he was morally obligated to do more right?

So with that said, why did your god sit there and let this happen, he would have obviously known about it, he could have acted to stop it, why did he not do so?

Your comparison is fallacious, Joe Paterno does not have attributes of God. As legendary as the Penn State coach may have been, I fail to see how God's attributes are applicable. I do feel he was morally obligated to do more right because he is a human just like you or me. I do believe that the evil and suffering is in the grand scheme of things. Neither of us understand why God would allow evil, but does that disprove God? How is it that evil and God are logically incompatible? There is no explicit contradiction between the two, now if they are some hidden premises that God and evil contradict each other we need to address them.

Why do you hold god to a lower standard then human, you would expect Joe to do the morally right thing, and the stupid excuse Joe works in mysterious ways as was said before would not work for Joe, yet you just go and give it to god. Don't you see if someone presumed Joe was always right they could make the same nonsensical excuse.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
TeenageApologist
Posts: 54
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11/11/2011 8:39:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:30:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 7:52:00 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/9/2011 2:09:13 PM, izbo10 wrote:
If anyone doesn't Know Joe Paterno is head coach of Penn State University, and is currently caught up in a scandal where there was an apparent cover up of his long time defensive coordinator molesting young boys. Paterno was aware and has been accused of not doing enough to stop it and not contacting legal authorities to stop it.

I Propose that Joe Paterno gave his coaches free will and to act on this would be a direct violation of free will. There is no way for us to know that Paterno did not know that allowing this would allow a greater good . How could we know that he didn't have greater reasons for allowing this to happen.

So, as a Theist, do you really find this reasoning remotely acceptable? No, didn't think so. You still feel he was morally obligated to do more right?

So with that said, why did your god sit there and let this happen, he would have obviously known about it, he could have acted to stop it, why did he not do so?

Your comparison is fallacious, Joe Paterno does not have attributes of God. As legendary as the Penn State coach may have been, I fail to see how God's attributes are applicable. I do feel he was morally obligated to do more right because he is a human just like you or me. I do believe that the evil and suffering is in the grand scheme of things. Neither of us understand why God would allow evil, but does that disprove God? How is it that evil and God are logically incompatible? There is no explicit contradiction between the two, now if they are some hidden premises that God and evil contradict each other we need to address them.


Why do you hold god to a lower standard then human, you would expect Joe to do the morally right thing, and the stupid excuse Joe works in mysterious ways as was said before would not work for Joe, yet you just go and give it to god. Don't you see if someone presumed Joe was always right they could make the same nonsensical excuse.

I am not aware where you got that I hold God to a lower standard, I believe it is quite apparant in my comments that God is HIGHER than us. No one would presume Joe is always right because he is human, unlike God who I reinterate is higher than us. You also failed to acknowledge my argument that answers the problem of evil. God and evil are not logically incompatible, if you can show otherwise I implore you to do so.
TeenageApologist
Posts: 54
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11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/11/2011 8:50:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:30:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 7:52:00 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/9/2011 2:09:13 PM, izbo10 wrote:

Why do you hold god to a lower standard then human, you would expect Joe to do the morally right thing, and the stupid excuse Joe works in mysterious ways as was said before would not work for Joe, yet you just go and give it to god. Don't you see if someone presumed Joe was always right they could make the same nonsensical excuse.

Maybe Joe has morally sufficient reason for allowing that evil, maybe Joe is always right.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/11/2011 8:56:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:39:23 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:30:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 7:52:00 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/9/2011 2:09:13 PM, izbo10 wrote:
If anyone doesn't Know Joe Paterno is head coach of Penn State University, and is currently caught up in a scandal where there was an apparent cover up of his long time defensive coordinator molesting young boys. Paterno was aware and has been accused of not doing enough to stop it and not contacting legal authorities to stop it.

I Propose that Joe Paterno gave his coaches free will and to act on this would be a direct violation of free will. There is no way for us to know that Paterno did not know that allowing this would allow a greater good . How could we know that he didn't have greater reasons for allowing this to happen.

So, as a Theist, do you really find this reasoning remotely acceptable? No, didn't think so. You still feel he was morally obligated to do more right?

So with that said, why did your god sit there and let this happen, he would have obviously known about it, he could have acted to stop it, why did he not do so?

Your comparison is fallacious, Joe Paterno does not have attributes of God. As legendary as the Penn State coach may have been, I fail to see how God's attributes are applicable. I do feel he was morally obligated to do more right because he is a human just like you or me. I do believe that the evil and suffering is in the grand scheme of things. Neither of us understand why God would allow evil, but does that disprove God? How is it that evil and God are logically incompatible? There is no explicit contradiction between the two, now if they are some hidden premises that God and evil contradict each other we need to address them.


Why do you hold god to a lower standard then human, you would expect Joe to do the morally right thing, and the stupid excuse Joe works in mysterious ways as was said before would not work for Joe, yet you just go and give it to god. Don't you see if someone presumed Joe was always right they could make the same nonsensical excuse.

I am not aware where you got that I hold God to a lower standard, I believe it is quite apparant in my comments that God is HIGHER than us. No one would presume Joe is always right because he is human, unlike God who I reinterate is higher than us. You also failed to acknowledge my argument that answers the problem of evil. God and evil are not logically incompatible, if you can show otherwise I implore you to do so.

It is quite simple Joe Pa needs an actual reason for allowing this to happen. You on the other hand just hand god a free pass, that is a lower standard.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
TeenageApologist
Posts: 54
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11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/11/2011 8:57:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I told you, Joe has morally sufficient reason.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/11/2011 9:01:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

I am higher than you, does that mean I get an exempt from your moral standard too ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/11/2011 9:01:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

Your argument has been, this moral standard applies to all moral beings, except god, he doesn't need to follow that standard, that is special pleading 101 my friend.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
TeenageApologist
Posts: 54
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11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Illegalcombatant
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11/11/2011 9:19:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It has yet to be proven that Joe can't have morally sufficient reason to allow child rape.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
izbo10
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11/11/2011 9:20:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 9:19:32 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
It has yet to be proven that Joe can't have morally sufficient reason to allow child rape.

agreed.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/11/2011 9:26:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So Izbo, is some one under some sort of moral obligation to reason honestly ? say when considering questions about moral double standards and God ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
TeenageApologist
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11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.
izbo10
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11/11/2011 9:34:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.

So let me get this straight a being that allows child rape is to the best of your knowledge above humans. Is that really your stance? If yes please say so if no stop the bull$hit.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
TeenageApologist
Posts: 54
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11/11/2011 9:42:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 9:34:17 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.

So let me get this straight a being that allows child rape is to the best of your knowledge above humans. Is that really your stance? If yes please say so if no stop the bull$hit.

How is it hogwash?(see the maturity there) God does allow these things but it is in the grand scheme of things . Happiness is not the purpose of this life, there will come a time when God will wipe away every tear.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/12/2011 7:57:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 9:42:19 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:34:17 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.

So let me get this straight a being that allows child rape is to the best of your knowledge above humans. Is that really your stance? If yes please say so if no stop the bull$hit.

How is it hogwash?(see the maturity there) God does allow these things but it is in the grand scheme of things . Happiness is not the purpose of this life, there will come a time when God will wipe away every tear.

Paterno does allow assistant coaches to rape children, it is in the grand scheme of things, one day you will see his purpose. If you don't buy it for any other moral being, it is special pleading and bull$hit to use it for god.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/12/2011 7:59:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 9:42:19 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:34:17 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.

So let me get this straight a being that allows child rape is to the best of your knowledge above humans. Is that really your stance? If yes please say so if no stop the bull$hit.

How is it hogwash?(see the maturity there) God does allow these things but it is in the grand scheme of things . Happiness is not the purpose of this life, there will come a time when God will wipe away every tear.

also ,if holding something to higher standard is giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to allowing child rape, then maybe we should hold Joe to a higher standard.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
TeenageApologist
Posts: 54
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11/12/2011 9:08:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 7:57:55 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:42:19 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:34:17 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.

So let me get this straight a being that allows child rape is to the best of your knowledge above humans. Is that really your stance? If yes please say so if no stop the bull$hit.

How is it hogwash?(see the maturity there) God does allow these things but it is in the grand scheme of things . Happiness is not the purpose of this life, there will come a time when God will wipe away every tear.

Paterno does allow assistant coaches to rape children, it is in the grand scheme of things, one day you will see his purpose. If you don't buy it for any other moral being, it is special pleading and bull$hit to use it for god.

I mean evil is in the grand scheme of things not child rape specifically, how did you conjour up that? You argue against my point then you can not beat that so you divert to special pleading.....is this not also special pleading? I will probably no longer respond to you unless you make good arguments or ask good questions. Otherwise, I will not waste my time on a troll.
TeenageApologist
Posts: 54
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11/12/2011 9:12:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 7:59:39 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:42:19 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:34:17 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.

So let me get this straight a being that allows child rape is to the best of your knowledge above humans. Is that really your stance? If yes please say so if no stop the bull$hit.

How is it hogwash?(see the maturity there) God does allow these things but it is in the grand scheme of things . Happiness is not the purpose of this life, there will come a time when God will wipe away every tear.


also ,if holding something to higher standard is giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to allowing child rape, then maybe we should hold Joe to a higher standard.

You are the Grand Misinterpeter, I said that God should not be held to standards by us mortals at all. You argue that this in turn a higher standard, but standards are irrelevant to God, simple.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/13/2011 8:34:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 9:12:12 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/12/2011 7:59:39 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:42:19 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:34:17 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.

So let me get this straight a being that allows child rape is to the best of your knowledge above humans. Is that really your stance? If yes please say so if no stop the bull$hit.

How is it hogwash?(see the maturity there) God does allow these things but it is in the grand scheme of things . Happiness is not the purpose of this life, there will come a time when God will wipe away every tear.


also ,if holding something to higher standard is giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to allowing child rape, then maybe we should hold Joe to a higher standard.

You are the Grand Misinterpeter, I said that God should not be held to standards by us mortals at all. You argue that this in turn a higher standard, but standards are irrelevant to God, simple.

So, we should hold Joe to know standards as well, I mean how do we know he isn't the 2nd coming of Jesus, waiting to make the announcement till the right time.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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11/13/2011 10:26:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 9:12:12 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/12/2011 7:59:39 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:42:19 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:34:17 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:29:50 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:16:34 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 9:08:03 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:58:44 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:56:31 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:46:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:41:18 PM, TeenageApologist wrote:
At 11/11/2011 8:34:49 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Because if God was held to the same standard he would be condemned, people want to avoid condemning God so they exempt him from the standard.

God is held to standards, hence why the problem of evil argument exists. This should not be so, God is higher than us.

It's not about God been held to a standard, its God been held to the SAME standard you use to condemm other moral beings, in this case humans.

God is higher than us = I am exempting God from the same standard

Saying a standard and the same standard in your context are not that different, right? I meant multiple standards and the "same standard" you mention is included. God should be exempt from our standards because, as I stated, he is higher than us.

exempting someone from moral obligation is a lower standard then holding them to the standard, hence you hold god to a lower standard.

You still did not show any incompatibily. As for the "free pass", God is above me(spiritually) so I am not in proper authority to chastise him. God is beyond our standards, we can apply them but that doesn't mean they are fit to be there.

Joe Paterno is above you, so you are not a proper authority to judge him. Why do you idiot christians think you can get away with this nonsense. There is no reason to believe that JoPa had a good reason, and there is the same for god. If you can make this statement, "to the best of my knowledge a perfectly moral being would not allow child rape" then it damn well contradicts what you are saying.

Joe Paterno is not above me, he is a human. What you are doing is applying God's attributes to a human. You say that we don't know that God(I'm dropping the ignorant JoPa metaphor) had a good reason but does it follow that therefore he didn't have a good reason? God is above morals, just like he is above standards. This simple logic has eluded you ad I am sorry for it. I do not appreciate your inflammatory comment about Christians. If you are that immature you should avoid debating if you can not refrain from juvenile behavior.

So let me get this straight a being that allows child rape is to the best of your knowledge above humans. Is that really your stance? If yes please say so if no stop the bull$hit.

How is it hogwash?(see the maturity there) God does allow these things but it is in the grand scheme of things . Happiness is not the purpose of this life, there will come a time when God will wipe away every tear.


also ,if holding something to higher standard is giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to allowing child rape, then maybe we should hold Joe to a higher standard.

You are the Grand Misinterpeter, I said that God should not be held to standards by us mortals at all. You argue that this in turn a higher standard, but standards are irrelevant to God, simple.

I am in a plane. I have am above you. Therefore, I can rape whoever I like.

I'll take that role of Grand misinterpreter thank you very much!

But seriously, just saying "he's above you" means nothing. I can say that Gadaffi was above us all, as he was a leader of a country, that doesn't make him immoral.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...