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Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for yo

GreatestIam
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11/10/2011 1:43:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for your God?

Scripture is full of people who killed under God command. He ordered women raped and babies heads smashed against stones and his followers did just that. Even though they only had voices in their head and what could have been an illusion like a burning bush. Further, scripture says that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world. How could those followers have know for sure that what they were hearing was God or Satan? How could you?

God himself is shown as killing in scriptures. Even setting up the first born of Egypt. God even sets the conditions to murder his own son needlessly.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as his ransom for the forgiveness of sin, before he even created human beings or sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this solution for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?
If he did anticipate it, why not make a different plan insuring that sin does not come up.

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That's who.

And here I had the foolish notion that religion and God were all about the veneration and celebration of life. Bah. It is my view that bible God does not venerate life at all and should be rejected by any moral man who does. Seek God my friends. You already live by a better law in secularism. This is wise. You have already rejected God's law, now all you need do is follow your heart and seek a better God. There is a better Gods out there.

God and scripture indicate that an eye for an eye represents a fair penalty for offences.
God then turn around and kill for many reasons that are way less than an eye for an eye. Unruly children and fornicators and many more are condemned for infraction that are nowhere near killing.

Does though shalt not kill mean anything to God?
He disregarded it constantly and has men kill for him for mundane reasons.

Is God sanctioned killing murder if the stipulated eye for an eye is exceeded?

Would you do as the ancients did and kill babies by smashing their heads on stones or stone your own unruly child? Would you rape and kill even if you thought that God was real and directing you?

http://www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL
lotus_flower
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11/10/2011 7:18:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I really enjoy reading your posts. You are very insightful. Just tell me, do you have a religion, and you are keeping it from us, or have you not decided/apathetic?
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
- Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
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GreatestIam
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11/11/2011 10:04:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 7:18:34 PM, lotus_flower wrote:
I really enjoy reading your posts. You are very insightful. Just tell me, do you have a religion, and you are keeping it from us, or have you not decided/apathetic?

Thanks for the kudos.

I am a religionist and do not hide it. Just not your usual type.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

"Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white."

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God's killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship, it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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11/12/2011 1:50:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 1:43:34 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for your God?

Scripture is full of people who killed under God command. He ordered women raped and babies heads smashed against stones and his followers did just that.

Murder and war are not the same thing. Adultry in those days also had to do with the man. If a man cheated , it didn't matter unless it was with another man's wife.

Further more the Tora had different rules for Jews and nonjews.
If you read the bible, it recognizes other gods, for other people, but there is only 1 god for the Jewish people.

Even though they only had voices in their head and what could have been an illusion like a burning bush. Further, scripture says that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world. How could those followers have know for sure that what they were hearing was God or Satan? How could you?


They couldn't. That's why I don't trust scripture. No way of telling if it's right, or how much of it is accurate.

I always say, if god is the writer, that makes man the editor.

God himself is shown as killing in scriptures. Even setting up the first born of Egypt. God even sets the conditions to murder his own son needlessly.


If god kills it's natural even if it's supernatural.

If someone didn't kill Jesus, why would Jesus need sacrificing?

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as his ransom for the forgiveness of sin, before he even created human beings or sin.

That means from the time Adam and Eve ate the fruit, or possibly before that even, with Lilith.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this solution for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

You can anticipate something you did not intend.

If he did anticipate it, why not make a different plan insuring that sin does not come up.


Free will

The fallen angels also have free will, which is why they rebelled.

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

They listened till tempted

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?


What kind of man would offer up his daughters to be raped in place of guests he doesn't even know?
It was a different world, with different customs.

Only an insane God. That's who.


Opinion

And here I had the foolish notion that religion and God were all about the veneration and celebration of life. Bah.

Jesus was resurrected

It is my view that bible God does not venerate life at all and should be rejected by any moral man who does. Seek God my friends. You already live by a better law in secularism. This is wise. You have already rejected God's law, now all you need do is follow your heart and seek a better God. There is a better Gods out there.

God and scripture indicate that an eye for an eye represents a fair penalty for offences.

New testiment rejects that.

God then turn around and kill for many reasons that are way less than an eye for an eye. Unruly children and fornicators and many more are condemned for infraction that are nowhere near killing.


The eye for a eye bit is for humans not deities.

Does though shalt not kill mean anything to God?

If god does it, than it's a natural death.

He disregarded it constantly and has men kill for him for mundane reasons.


Again who is the editor, and who does the laws apply to?

Is God sanctioned killing murder if the stipulated eye for an eye is exceeded?

Offenses against god are also taken into account. The Jews are also god's chosen people.

Would you do as the ancients did and kill babies by smashing their heads on stones or stone your own unruly child? Would you rape and kill even if you thought that God was real and directing you?

That's how wars were faught back than.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
GreatestIam
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11/13/2011 7:28:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 6:18:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
First, the actual translation is thou shalt not MURDER.

Anyone who can think knows this.

I did not want to misquote a commandment.

Regards
DL
logicrules
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11/13/2011 7:33:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 7:28:23 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/12/2011 6:18:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
First, the actual translation is thou shalt not MURDER.

Anyone who can think knows this.

I did not want to misquote a commandment.

Regards
DL

It changes your entire issue. Makeing the question 'Is killing a human morally neutral or is it always wrong?
GreatestIam
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11/13/2011 8:22:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 1:50:29 AM, DanT wrote:
At 11/10/2011 1:43:34 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for your God?

Scripture is full of people who killed under God command. He ordered women raped and babies heads smashed against stones and his followers did just that.

Murder and war are not the same thing.

True. But no man would be stupid enough to order the killing of animals out of spite while his men can eat them. God is that stupid it seems. An army fights on its stomach.

Adultry in those days also had to do with the man. If a man cheated , it didn't matter unless it was with another man's wife.

Yes. The women were chattel thanks to God.

Further more the Tora had different rules for Jews and nonjews.
If you read the bible, it recognizes other gods, for other people, but there is only 1 god for the Jewish people.


Ashera. God's wife.

Even though they only had voices in their head and what could have been an illusion like a burning bush. Further, scripture says that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world. How could those followers have know for sure that what they were hearing was God or Satan? How could you?


They couldn't. That's why I don't trust scripture. No way of telling if it's right, or how much of it is accurate.

You are aware I hope the Jews did not think them accurate at all or literal.
Even back then, they were not as stupid as Christian literalists.
:

I always say, if god is the writer, that makes man the editor.

God himself is shown as killing in scriptures. Even setting up the first born of Egypt. God even sets the conditions to murder his own son needlessly.


If god kills it's natural even if it's supernatural.

If someone didn't kill Jesus, why would Jesus need sacrificing?

???

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as his ransom for the forgiveness of sin, before he even created human beings or sin.

That means from the time Adam and Eve ate the fruit, or possibly before that even, with Lilith.


Yep.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this solution for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

You can anticipate something you did not intend.

Not if you are all knowing. You would already know that it was not there.

If he did anticipate it, why not make a different plan insuring that sin does not come up.


Free will

Do you recall what happened to A & E the first time they exercised their will to do their will and not God's?
Booooom.
Right?


The fallen angels also have free will, which is why they rebelled.

Rebelled. Or doing God's will. After all, Satan was rewarded by being given dominion of earth.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or " it's all man's fault".

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.


God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

They listened till tempted

Anyone who ignores their natural tendency to seek knowledge of all kinds is less than human.
Would you deny your children the knowledge that created their moral sense?
You know something about the Jews. You will know then that they interpreted Eden as where man was elevated to God like morals. Only the foolish Christians saw enlightenment as evil and a fall.


What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?


What kind of man would offer up his daughters to be raped in place of guests he doesn't even know?
It was a different world, with different customs.


Yes. Offering chattel was normal then. Just good manners.
One must wonder why God gave angels b ung holes. They did not eat or s hit.


Only an insane God. That's who.


Opinion

Yes and you should agree. If you can think.
Do you think it sane to plan to have your son murdered when there is no need?


And here I had the foolish notion that religion and God were all about the veneration and celebration of life. Bah.

Jesus was resurrected


LOL.
Zombie Jesus.
If that were true, it would have been important to the four main gospels.
If I recall, only one of the four even mentions it and then, only in passing.

It is my view that bible God does not venerate life at all and should be rejected by any moral man who does. Seek God my friends. You already live by a better law in secularism. This is wise. You have already rejected God's law, now all you need do is follow your heart and seek a better God. There is a better Gods out there.

God and scripture indicate that an eye for an eye represents a fair penalty for offences.

New testiment rejects that.

Show the quote.
I agree that it ignores it yet it is the cornerstone to good justice.
Do you agree?


God then turn around and kill for many reasons that are way less than an eye for an eye. Unruly children and fornicators and many more are condemned for infraction that are nowhere near killing.


The eye for a eye bit is for humans not deities.

Do you think it good policy for any law maker to say, do as I say and not as I do?
In scriptures, we are told to emulate God. If that is the case, and it is, then our believing law makers sould also be able to not do as they tell us to do.


Does though shalt not kill mean anything to God?

If god does it, than it's a natural death.


Bashing in babies heads on stones is natural death. Ok.

He disregarded it constantly and has men kill for him for mundane reasons.


Again who is the editor, and who does the laws apply to?

Men and Gods unless you have a quote that says otherwise.

Is God sanctioned killing murder if the stipulated eye for an eye is exceeded?

Offenses against god are also taken into account. The Jews are also god's chosen people.

Your mantra is not proven and Jews do not agree.

http://www.raceandhistory.com...


Would you do as the ancients did and kill babies by smashing their heads on stones or stone your own unruly child? Would you rape and kill even if you thought that God was real and directing you?


That's how wars were faught back than.

Stoning your own children is not an act done in war.

Regards
DL
phantom
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11/14/2011 2:31:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's clear that you do believe in the OT. But I have a question, what are your beliefs about the NT.

Also agreed with lotus_flower. I love your posts even if I usually disagree.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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11/14/2011 2:32:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 2:31:31 PM, phantom wrote:
It's clear that you do NOT believe in the OT. But I have a question, what are your beliefs about the NT.

Also agreed with lotus_flower. I love your posts even if I usually disagree.

Fixed
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
GreatestIam
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11/15/2011 9:27:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 2:31:31 PM, phantom wrote:
It's clear that you do believe in the OT. But I have a question, what are your beliefs about the NT.


Google Forged Bart Ehrman.

He speaks for the majority of scholarship on the authenticity of the N T.
Most is misrepresented.

Not surprising. Most religions are not silly enough to take their religions literally.


Also agreed with lotus_flower. I love your posts even if I usually disagree.

Thanks for this.

If you disagree then --- dare to challenge.
Come with reason and logic for God's sake and not imaginary ramblings.
Any discussion on the existence of God --- and or what he actually thought or said---- is unknowable and speculative. None of it can be proven. That means that you have to judge the bible by it's moral value. Those discussions have value. They are what you think and not what a book thinks or what you have been told to think. Anything else is speculative and often times, nonsense. No miracles and magic please.

I am here to teach and learn and it is a cruelty that you would not teach me something. That is scripture if you know your bible. If you believe in a God then you should not do cruelty. Learning is a great joy. Share it when you can.

Regards
DL
Gileandos
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11/15/2011 10:29:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/15/2011 9:27:02 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/14/2011 2:31:31 PM, phantom wrote:
It's clear that you do believe in the OT. But I have a question, what are your beliefs about the NT.


Google Forged Bart Ehrman.

He speaks for the majority of scholarship on the authenticity of the N T.
Most is misrepresented.

LOL, Bart Erhman speaks for Atheistic view of the NT not the majority of scholarship.
Obviously the majority of scholarship are theologians themselves and validate the NT as authentic.

This is just one example of your factual innaccuracy.


Not surprising. Most religions are not silly enough to take their religions literally.


Except all of them do...


Also agreed with lotus_flower. I love your posts even if I usually disagree.

Thanks for this.

If you disagree then --- dare to challenge.

Not Hard.

Come with reason and logic for God's sake and not imaginary ramblings.

To be fair, I believe your experience. There is nothing illogical about it.
We Christians however, believe you experienced a demonic source.

Any discussion on the existence of God --- and or what he actually thought or said---- is unknowable and speculative. None of it can be proven.

I disagree. Massive numbers have posed logical arguments and scientific validations that hold to this day.

That means that you have to judge the bible by it's moral value. Those discussions have value. They are what you think and not what a book thinks or what you have been told to think. Anything else is speculative and often times, nonsense. No miracles and magic please.

LOL, and your new "system" of moral reason is not nonsense? Seems like special pleading.

I am here to teach and learn and it is a cruelty that you would not teach me something. That is scripture if you know your bible. If you believe in a God then you should not do cruelty. Learning is a great joy. Share it when you can.

I giggle as I read this. It is entirely your subjective complaint of others form of cruelty.
Gileandos
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11/15/2011 7:54:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/15/2011 1:16:44 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
We Christians however, believe you experienced a demonic source.

Thanks for this.

You act like this is a new claim.

Did you know anything about actual Christianity before becoming a Gnostic?

Gnostics believe in the inner mystical divine.

Explain how you get the right to claim my supernatural explanation is more open to ridicule than yours?

Mine at least has the added value of observable throughout history, despite atheists claims they have never had the experience, the vast majority of humans have experienced supernatural beings.
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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11/16/2011 10:51:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 1:43:34 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for your God?

Scripture is full of people who killed under God command. He ordered women raped and babies heads smashed against stones and his followers did just that. Even though they only had voices in their head and what could have been an illusion like a burning bush. Further, scripture says that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world. How could those followers have know for sure that what they were hearing was God or Satan? How could you?

An example of him ordering women raped? Also, God has a right to do whatever He wants. As the creator of everything HE sets the bar for perfection and is not bound by it. Thankfully He is also good and loving so we sorta got lucky on that one.

God himself is shown as killing in scriptures. Even setting up the first born of Egypt. God even sets the conditions to murder his own son needlessly.

see above ^^ . . . "needlessly" thats your opinion, you would claim to understand all the supernatural events surrounding the death of Jesus? You would claim to have any understanding? Your arrogance is foolish . . .

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as his ransom for the forgiveness of sin, before he even created human beings or sin.

Sure, God had a plan for the removal of sin. He had a plan for everything. If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned the "plan" of Jesus' death never would have happened. This is the only way you can satisfy both God's omniscience and our free will.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this solution for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?
If he did anticipate it, why not make a different plan insuring that sin does not come up.

free will requires the option of rejection.

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

God desires to be loved, the only way for Him to be loved is if we have the opurtunity to reject him. He didn't make it inevitable, He made it possible. There is a huge difference.

Only an insane God. That's who.

ok. . .

And here I had the foolish notion that religion and God were all about the veneration and celebration of life. Bah. It is my view that bible God does not venerate life at all and should be rejected by any moral man who does. Seek God my friends. You already live by a better law in secularism. This is wise. You have already rejected God's law, now all you need do is follow your heart and seek a better God. There is a better Gods out there.


secularism would teach survival of the fittest, the Bible teaches that what you do for the least of these you do unto me. . . secularism teaches to each his own, the Bible teaches love thine enemy. . . To argue taht secularism has no "ugly" side is a complete misrepresentation . . . I think you know this.

God and scripture indicate that an eye for an eye represents a fair penalty for offences.
God then turn around and kill for many reasons that are way less than an eye for an eye. Unruly children and fornicators and many more are condemned for infraction that are nowhere near killing.

Arguing old testament laws? Really? The Bible teaches love thine neighbor as yourself. The Law was not meant to be followed, it was impossible to follow. The law was meant to show us how impossible it was to gain salvation through works. The Law represents a Perfect world, not the one we live in.


Does though shalt not kill mean anything to God?
He disregarded it constantly and has men kill for him for mundane reasons.

Is God sanctioned killing murder if the stipulated eye for an eye is exceeded?

I think I already answered this

Would you do as the ancients did and kill babies by smashing their heads on stones or stone your own unruly child? Would you rape and kill even if you thought that God was real and directing you?

If I truly believed it. . . probably, but one must take what He believes God is "telling" him and compare it to what we know of our God.

http://www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
GreatestIam
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11/16/2011 12:15:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/15/2011 7:54:29 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/15/2011 1:16:44 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
We Christians however, believe you experienced a demonic source.

Thanks for this.

You act like this is a new claim.

Did you know anything about actual Christianity before becoming a Gnostic?

Gnostics believe in the inner mystical divine.

Explain how you get the right to claim my supernatural explanation is more open to ridicule than yours?

Mine at least has the added value of observable throughout history, despite atheists claims they have never had the experience, the vast majority of humans have experienced supernatural beings.

Boo.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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11/16/2011 12:23:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 10:51:55 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
At 11/10/2011 1:43:34 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for your God?

Scripture is full of people who killed under God command. He ordered women raped and babies heads smashed against stones and his followers did just that. Even though they only had voices in their head and what could have been an illusion like a burning bush. Further, scripture says that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world. How could those followers have know for sure that what they were hearing was God or Satan? How could you?

An example of him ordering women raped? Also, God has a right to do whatever He wants. As the creator of everything HE sets the bar for perfection and is not bound by it. Thankfully He is also good and loving so we sorta got lucky on that one.

God himself is shown as killing in scriptures. Even setting up the first born of Egypt. God even sets the conditions to murder his own son needlessly.

see above ^^ . . . "needlessly" thats your opinion, you would claim to understand all the supernatural events surrounding the death of Jesus? You would claim to have any understanding? Your arrogance is foolish . . .

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as his ransom for the forgiveness of sin, before he even created human beings or sin.

Sure, God had a plan for the removal of sin. He had a plan for everything. If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned the "plan" of Jesus' death never would have happened. This is the only way you can satisfy both God's omniscience and our free will.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this solution for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?
If he did anticipate it, why not make a different plan insuring that sin does not come up.

free will requires the option of rejection.

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

God desires to be loved, the only way for Him to be loved is if we have the opurtunity to reject him. He didn't make it inevitable, He made it possible. There is a huge difference.

Only an insane God. That's who.

ok. . .

And here I had the foolish notion that religion and God were all about the veneration and celebration of life. Bah. It is my view that bible God does not venerate life at all and should be rejected by any moral man who does. Seek God my friends. You already live by a better law in secularism. This is wise. You have already rejected God's law, now all you need do is follow your heart and seek a better God. There is a better Gods out there.


secularism would teach survival of the fittest, the Bible teaches that what you do for the least of these you do unto me. . . secularism teaches to each his own, the Bible teaches love thine enemy. . . To argue taht secularism has no "ugly" side is a complete misrepresentation . . . I think you know this.

God and scripture indicate that an eye for an eye represents a fair penalty for offences.
God then turn around and kill for many reasons that are way less than an eye for an eye. Unruly children and fornicators and many more are condemned for infraction that are nowhere near killing.

Arguing old testament laws? Really? The Bible teaches love thine neighbor as yourself. The Law was not meant to be followed, it was impossible to follow. The law was meant to show us how impossible it was to gain salvation through works. The Law represents a Perfect world, not the one we live in.


Does though shalt not kill mean anything to God?
He disregarded it constantly and has men kill for him for mundane reasons.

Is God sanctioned killing murder if the stipulated eye for an eye is exceeded?

I think I already answered this

Would you do as the ancients did and kill babies by smashing their heads on stones or stone your own unruly child? Would you rape and kill even if you thought that God was real and directing you?

If I truly believed it. . . probably, but one must take what He believes God is "telling" him and compare it to what we know of our God.

http://www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

You speak for God so often without authority that I do not know where to start.
Rather presumptuous of you.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That's who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

The wage of sin is death. What sin did Jesus do to earn his wage?

Regards
DL