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The theist's argument against theism.

Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/12/2011 3:38:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net...

Enjoy, lol.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/12/2011 4:29:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 3:58:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
I met Jesus once.

He told me he wasn't the son of God.

What's your evidence?

That equates to "because I have not experienced Jesus you cannot have either."

We do not evaluate a claim based upon deviants that mimick the claim.

Additionally, I did NOT claim "that you could not meet him, only I can."

The core of Christian theology is that you are adamantly instructed to meet him yourself. To develop a relationship with your creator.
You never need to rely upon anothers claim.
You can meet God yourself.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/12/2011 4:57:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 4:29:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:58:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
I met Jesus once.

He told me he wasn't the son of God.

What's your evidence?

That equates to "because I have not experienced Jesus you cannot have either."

We do not evaluate a claim based upon deviants that mimick the claim.

Additionally, I did NOT claim "that you could not meet him, only I can."

The core of Christian theology is that you are adamantly instructed to meet him yourself. To develop a relationship with your creator.
You never need to rely upon anothers claim.
You can meet God yourself.

Your ignorant assertions of experiencing Jesus are the equivalent of, I know I am right about my experiences with god, a majority of the rest of the world are just idiots. Remember any god you believe in and claim to have an experience with, a majority of people who have ever lived disagree with you and claim to have experienced other gods. What makes you right?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/12/2011 7:23:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 4:57:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/12/2011 4:29:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:58:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
I met Jesus once.

He told me he wasn't the son of God.

What's your evidence?

That equates to "because I have not experienced Jesus you cannot have either."

We do not evaluate a claim based upon deviants that mimick the claim.

Additionally, I did NOT claim "that you could not meet him, only I can."

The core of Christian theology is that you are adamantly instructed to meet him yourself. To develop a relationship with your creator.
You never need to rely upon anothers claim.
You can meet God yourself.

Your ignorant assertions of experiencing Jesus are the equivalent of, I know I am right about my experiences with god, a majority of the rest of the world are just idiots. Remember any god you believe in and claim to have an experience with, a majority of people who have ever lived disagree with you and claim to have experienced other gods. What makes you right?

I never demeaned anyone else's experiences or lack of experiences.

Nothing about Christianity asserts another religions super natural experiences are wrong.
We in fact believe that they do have real super natural experiences.

We just believe that our power source is more powerful.
Christianity has defeated all of the supernatural powers it has gone up against throughout History.

Isalm is the last vestige of super natural direction of any combat and it has dramatically lost.

It once came on strong and dominant but at this point has been relegated to a plane hijacking religion.

Nearly every place on earth has now a major mainstay of the Christian religion.

No amount of oppression has defeated the supernatural power of Christianity.
Not Islam, Not Nazism, Stalin or Mao's athiesm etc...

The sheer success of Christianity against all comers gives credence to a clear super natural viability.

Combined with the Christian God's real and Living presence with His people today is overwhelming.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/13/2011 3:14:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 3:48:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Convenient.

I have met Jesus.
Countless people have also met Jesus.

Why does he only ever manifest himself to people that are mentally deficient?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/13/2011 3:27:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Or on drugs.

Or are emotionally compromised.

Well, same things I suppose.

Thou shalt not bear false witness... against thy neighbour

Saved by the "against thy neighbor" clause.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/13/2011 12:39:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 3:14:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:48:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Convenient.

I have met Jesus.
Countless people have also met Jesus.

Why does he only ever manifest himself to people that are mentally deficient?

Again your statements of bandinage amount to nothing more than mere ridicule and it is not sufficient to convince.

I have never treated you in such a way. I would ask that you reconsider your approach in a more mature manner.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/13/2011 12:54:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:39:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/13/2011 3:14:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:48:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Convenient.

I have met Jesus.
Countless people have also met Jesus.

Why does he only ever manifest himself to people that are mentally deficient?

Again your statements of bandinage amount to nothing more than mere ridicule and it is not sufficient to convince.

I have never treated you in such a way. I would ask that you reconsider your approach in a more mature manner.

Actually yes you have, if you do not understand something that a normal person would you react with rage and insults. You are incapable of rational discussion so petty snide remarks are all you deserve.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/13/2011 12:59:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 7:23:53 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/12/2011 4:57:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/12/2011 4:29:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:58:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
I met Jesus once.

He told me he wasn't the son of God.

What's your evidence?

That equates to "because I have not experienced Jesus you cannot have either."

We do not evaluate a claim based upon deviants that mimick the claim.

Additionally, I did NOT claim "that you could not meet him, only I can."

The core of Christian theology is that you are adamantly instructed to meet him yourself. To develop a relationship with your creator.
You never need to rely upon anothers claim.
You can meet God yourself.

Your ignorant assertions of experiencing Jesus are the equivalent of, I know I am right about my experiences with god, a majority of the rest of the world are just idiots. Remember any god you believe in and claim to have an experience with, a majority of people who have ever lived disagree with you and claim to have experienced other gods. What makes you right?

I never demeaned anyone else's experiences or lack of experiences.

Nothing about Christianity asserts another religions super natural experiences are wrong.
We in fact believe that they do have real super natural experiences.

We just believe that our power source is more powerful.
Christianity has defeated all of the supernatural powers it has gone up against throughout History.

Isalm is the last vestige of super natural direction of any combat and it has dramatically lost.

It once came on strong and dominant but at this point has been relegated to a plane hijacking religion.

Nearly every place on earth has now a major mainstay of the Christian religion.

No amount of oppression has defeated the supernatural power of Christianity.
Not Islam, Not Nazism, Stalin or Mao's athiesm etc...

The sheer success of Christianity against all comers gives credence to a clear super natural viability.

Combined with the Christian God's real and Living presence with His people today is overwhelming.
How has it lost? Islam is growing to be one of the greatest religions in Europe, ever, and it will reach Christian numbers easily in the West if it continues to grow. Moreover, why do you always mention Islam as the first religion you oppose? You know that it is the only religion on earth which directly calls for respect on Christians, and even the Bible? And of course, Jesus (peace be upon him) - which most religions reject, yet the Qur'an directly honors him. But you directly attack Islam first.

But that's okay. Just remember that nonsensical attacks have never worked against Islam.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/13/2011 1:16:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:54:00 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/13/2011 12:39:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/13/2011 3:14:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:48:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Convenient.

I have met Jesus.
Countless people have also met Jesus.

Why does he only ever manifest himself to people that are mentally deficient?

Again your statements of bandinage amount to nothing more than mere ridicule and it is not sufficient to convince.

I have never treated you in such a way. I would ask that you reconsider your approach in a more mature manner.

Actually yes you have, if you do not understand something that a normal person would you react with rage and insults. You are incapable of rational discussion so petty snide remarks are all you deserve.

I have not reacted with rage and insults to the insults you hurl in my direction. I wish the best for you.
I wish for you to grow, both as a person and in your ability to have a discussion.

Even if you took some comment in a bad way, that may be more a "you" issue than a "me" issue.

You have to admit text does not always convey the intent of the writer over a forum.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/13/2011 1:34:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:59:12 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/12/2011 7:23:53 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/12/2011 4:57:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/12/2011 4:29:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:58:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
I met Jesus once.

He told me he wasn't the son of God.

What's your evidence?

That equates to "because I have not experienced Jesus you cannot have either."

We do not evaluate a claim based upon deviants that mimick the claim.

Additionally, I did NOT claim "that you could not meet him, only I can."

The core of Christian theology is that you are adamantly instructed to meet him yourself. To develop a relationship with your creator.
You never need to rely upon anothers claim.
You can meet God yourself.

Your ignorant assertions of experiencing Jesus are the equivalent of, I know I am right about my experiences with god, a majority of the rest of the world are just idiots. Remember any god you believe in and claim to have an experience with, a majority of people who have ever lived disagree with you and claim to have experienced other gods. What makes you right?

I never demeaned anyone else's experiences or lack of experiences.

Nothing about Christianity asserts another religions super natural experiences are wrong.
We in fact believe that they do have real super natural experiences.

We just believe that our power source is more powerful.
Christianity has defeated all of the supernatural powers it has gone up against throughout History.

Isalm is the last vestige of super natural direction of any combat and it has dramatically lost.

It once came on strong and dominant but at this point has been relegated to a plane hijacking religion.

Nearly every place on earth has now a major mainstay of the Christian religion.

No amount of oppression has defeated the supernatural power of Christianity.
Not Islam, Not Nazism, Stalin or Mao's athiesm etc...

The sheer success of Christianity against all comers gives credence to a clear super natural viability.

Combined with the Christian God's real and Living presence with His people today is overwhelming.
How has it lost? Islam is growing to be one of the greatest religions in Europe, ever, and it will reach Christian numbers easily in the West if it continues to grow. Moreover, why do you always mention Islam as the first religion you oppose? You know that it is the only religion on earth which directly calls for respect on Christians, and even the Bible? And of course, Jesus (peace be upon him) - which most religions reject, yet the Qur'an directly honors him. But you directly attack Islam first.

But that's okay. Just remember that nonsensical attacks have never worked against Islam.

Well clearly that are several points:
1. How do you define great? In Europe specifically there are entire Islamic communities where police and even the Military do not go, due to the abuse and violence done to the non-muslims by muslims. If this a "greatness" it is a personal definition that is held to only by the muslims.

2. Second the growth in Europe is an immigration issue not one of conversion. Christians have been in Muslim Africa for a very short time and now have a conversion rate of over 25% in Africa. Islam has been in America since the begining and has a near non existent conversion rate. There are only 7 million muslims in America and they are also here by relocation rather than conversion. In America, more Muslims have been lost by conversion to Christianity than by even old age.

3. Islam does not allow people to leave the religion without pain of death, a command which many Muslims are more than willing to act upon.
- No conversion from Islam will be openly admitted within theocratic nations based upon fear of death by the Radicals.
- In Egypt, we see that Christian business owners ( which make up 60% of all Egyptian business owners) are having their property targeted for confiscation by the Muslim brotherhood.
Though you may believe what you state clearly most Muslims do not abide by your claims.

4. Muslim growth is not by conversion but by birth rates. Muslim families have on average 8 children, which are numerically valued as Muslim by the Muslim community. Most Christian denominations do not keep children on their membership roles. If we did then 2.5 Billion Christians would easily reach 3 or greater.

5. Christianity has currently 2.5 Billion (with another 500 million expected under the Urish curtian of Islam unannounced). Islam at its largest valuation can only legitimately claim 800 Million. Considering that coverts from Islam are threatened and all other religions are oppressed we can wisely suspect that many are not even Islamic that would have left the religion.

6. The vast majority of "polled" Muslims agree or allow the persection of Christians by Radicals. This trend denies what you claim. I am not saying you do not believe what you say, but why would I not err on the side of caution?

7. Concerning Jesus, to honor a president of the United States as you would a college professer and ignore his status as leader of the free world is not "honor". Its a rejection of his actual office. You are equivocating.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/13/2011 2:17:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:34:21 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Well clearly that are several points:
1. How do you define great? In Europe specifically there are entire Islamic communities where police and even the Military do not go, due to the abuse and violence done to the non-muslims by muslims. If this a "greatness" it is a personal definition that is held to only by the muslims.
You don't understand European history then. Oh, forgot the 90's war in the Balkans? You are calling the non-Muslims the victims of Muslims?

2. Second the growth in Europe is an immigration issue not one of conversion. Christians have been in Muslim Africa for a very short time and now have a conversion rate of over 25% in Africa. Islam has been in America since the begining and has a near non existent conversion rate. There are only 7 million muslims in America and they are also here by relocation rather than conversion. In America, more Muslims have been lost by conversion to Christianity than by even old age.
I didn't give reasons nor ask for them, thanks.

3. Islam does not allow people to leave the religion without pain of death, a command which many Muslims are more than willing to act upon.
- No conversion from Islam will be openly admitted within theocratic nations based upon fear of death by the Radicals.
- In Egypt, we see that Christian business owners ( which make up 60% of all Egyptian business owners) are having their property targeted for confiscation by the Muslim brotherhood.
Though you may believe what you state clearly most Muslims do not abide by your claims.
Muslim majority countries do not represent Islam.

4. Muslim growth is not by conversion but by birth rates. Muslim families have on average 8 children, which are numerically valued as Muslim by the Muslim community. Most Christian denominations do not keep children on their membership roles. If we did then 2.5 Billion Christians would easily reach 3 or greater.
I didn't ask for reasons, but thank you again. And the last statement is untrue. See Catholics.

5. Christianity has currently 2.5 Billion (with another 500 million expected under the Urish curtian of Islam unannounced). Islam at its largest valuation can only legitimately claim 800 Million. Considering that coverts from Islam are threatened and all other religions are oppressed we can wisely suspect that many are not even Islamic that would have left the religion.
Muslims number 1.7 billion according to certain statistics, and your argument is entirely ambiguous. You know how many millions of Christians do not want to openly convert to other beliefs because they fear excommunication and similar social exclusion?

Your claims are based on blind faith.

6. The vast majority of "polled" Muslims agree or allow the persection of Christians by Radicals. This trend denies what you claim. I am not saying you do not believe what you say, but why would I not err on the side of caution?
Really, in which countries?

7. Concerning Jesus, to honor a president of the United States as you would a college professer and ignore his status as leader of the free world is not "honor". Its a rejection of his actual office. You are equivocating.
That's not my point. I never said Jesus is honored the way Christians want him to be honored. You're trying to put words into my mouth. I said Jesus is honored and recognized by Islam, even as one of the greatest humans to set foot on our planet. Hardly any other religions do that, and hardly do they even recognize Christians as being close to Muslims, or the Bible as once an honorable book from God. You can hardly name other religions doing that. Yet Islam is the first you attack. You're too biased.

Next time, look up a dictionary and find "Islam" and "Muslim." You'll see the difference.
Crede
Posts: 455
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11/13/2011 3:01:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The evidence has to fit the thing you are trying to prove. Unicorns would have evidence pertaining to a physical horse like animal. God wouldn't. Other than miracles and personal experience the "evidence" for God lies in areas of philosphy and the person of Jesus himself. Why is this so hard to understand...can we please leave Unicorns alone now please? Besides I have one in my basement.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/13/2011 3:22:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 2:17:54 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/13/2011 1:34:21 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Well clearly that are several points:
1. How do you define great? In Europe specifically there are entire Islamic communities where police and even the Military do not go, due to the abuse and violence done to the non-muslims by muslims. If this a "greatness" it is a personal definition that is held to only by the muslims.
You don't understand European history then. Oh, forgot the 90's war in the Balkans? You are calling the non-Muslims the victims of Muslims?

Are you attempting to point to an exception rather than the rule? I can think of very very few examples where the Muslim leaders were not the aggressors in history.


2. Second the growth in Europe is an immigration issue not one of conversion. Christians have been in Muslim Africa for a very short time and now have a conversion rate of over 25% in Africa. Islam has been in America since the begining and has a near non existent conversion rate. There are only 7 million muslims in America and they are also here by relocation rather than conversion. In America, more Muslims have been lost by conversion to Christianity than by even old age.
I didn't give reasons nor ask for them, thanks.

Obviously the growth of Islam is not caused by its "perceived" accuracy. I offered that for the readers interest not your own.


3. Islam does not allow people to leave the religion without pain of death, a command which many Muslims are more than willing to act upon.
- No conversion from Islam will be openly admitted within theocratic nations based upon fear of death by the Radicals.
- In Egypt, we see that Christian business owners ( which make up 60% of all Egyptian business owners) are having their property targeted for confiscation by the Muslim brotherhood.
Though you may believe what you state clearly most Muslims do not abide by your claims.
Muslim majority countries do not represent Islam.

Oh, I get it! The majority of Muslims are just misinterpreting the Will of Allah. Even if, your minority view is correct, I am not inclined to credit the "size" and "greatness" of Islam beyond its majority proponents.


4. Muslim growth is not by conversion but by birth rates. Muslim families have on average 8 children, which are numerically valued as Muslim by the Muslim community. Most Christian denominations do not keep children on their membership roles. If we did then 2.5 Billion Christians would easily reach 3 or greater.
I didn't ask for reasons, but thank you again. And the last statement is untrue. See Catholics.
Most denominations do not keep children on their membership roles. The Catholic church is an exception. The numbers remain the same.


5. Christianity has currently 2.5 Billion (with another 500 million expected under the Urish curtian of Islam unannounced). Islam at its largest valuation can only legitimately claim 800 Million. Considering that coverts from Islam are threatened and all other religions are oppressed we can wisely suspect that many are not even Islamic that would have left the religion.
Muslims number 1.7 billion according to certain statistics, and your argument is entirely ambiguous. You know how many millions of Christians do not want to openly convert to other beliefs because they fear excommunication and similar social exclusion?

Being that I am Christian, within a Christian culture dominant, I deny the accuracy of the statement.
Christians even allow and give a forum to atheists etc. We do not kill dissenting opinions, unless those opinions cause immediate harm.

Muslims have always restricted, oppressed and killed dissenting opinions.


Your claims are based on blind faith.

Sure.


6. The vast majority of "polled" Muslims agree or allow the persection of Christians by Radicals. This trend denies what you claim. I am not saying you do not believe what you say, but why would I not err on the side of caution?
Really, in which countries?

Syria specifically in a recent poll. Iran and theocratic countries would not allow the poll as they new the outcome would be much higher.


7. Concerning Jesus, to honor a president of the United States as you would a college professer and ignore his status as leader of the free world is not "honor". Its a rejection of his actual office. You are equivocating.
That's not my point. I never said Jesus is honored the way Christians want him to be honored. You're trying to put words into my mouth. I said Jesus is honored and recognized by Islam, even as one of the greatest humans to set foot on our planet. Hardly any other religions do that, and hardly do they even recognize Christians as being close to Muslims, or the Bible as once an honorable book from God. You can hardly name other religions doing that. Yet Islam is the first you attack. You're too biased.

Next time, look up a dictionary and find "Islam" and "Muslim." You'll see the difference.

That again is equivocating. Would you oppress a people who view Jesus to be God and your Lord? Of course, traditionally Muslims oppress such a religion.
Any other claim is historically false.

I am not saying you have a variant muslim view but the majority restrict and oppress the adherents of Christianity rather than hold them in esteem.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/13/2011 3:27:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 3:01:26 PM, Crede wrote:
The evidence has to fit the thing you are trying to prove. Unicorns would have evidence pertaining to a physical horse like animal. God wouldn't. Other than miracles and personal experience the "evidence" for God lies in areas of philosphy and the person of Jesus himself. Why is this so hard to understand...can we please leave Unicorns alone now please? Besides I have one in my basement.

ROFL, nice.
Agreed.
A rejection of the evidence of a metaphysical entity is not the same as a lack of physical evidence of a physical entity.

You can ask me prove the value of "four" all day long.
I count to four. I show all of the indirect evidence for four and yet I recieve statements like "I need a video!"
"Show me four!"

We can only expect indirect evidence of a metaphysical object.

As God is metaphysical we would expect metaphysical communication and indirect evidence.

It is fine for 4th dimensional matter or anti-matter to utilize indirect evidence but not for God.

I love your summary Crede.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/13/2011 3:32:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 3:48:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Convenient.

I have met Jesus.
Countless people have also met Jesus.

Do you have your own religion or what?

You're the only Christian I have ever seen that claims to have "met Jesus"
You're the only Christian I have ever seen that claims that God lives in the 4th dimension.

Other Christians I've asked about the aforementioned assertions deny them entirely. From where have you derived these philosophies? because I don't think they're part of the Bible.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Jon1
Posts: 314
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11/13/2011 3:54:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 3:38:38 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net...

Enjoy, lol.

Hehe, it's funny, I admit, but he doesn't exactly represent the Christian community. I sense that he may be either trolling or an atheist in disguise. Though, there are many idiots in this world.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/13/2011 3:56:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 3:32:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:48:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Convenient.

I have met Jesus.
Countless people have also met Jesus.

Do you have your own religion or what?

You're the only Christian I have ever seen that claims to have "met Jesus"
You're the only Christian I have ever seen that claims that God lives in the 4th dimension.

Other Christians I've asked about the aforementioned assertions deny them entirely. From where have you derived these philosophies? because I don't think they're part of the Bible.

Biblically speaking Jesus "appeared" to Paul on the road three years after His death.
For the most chronologically distant appearence from Jesus' death recorded in the Bible, would be the Revelation of St. John where Jesus directly appears to John in a Vision.

Visions in the Bible include the visions of Peter where God calls to him and orders him to kill, slaughter and eat unclean animals.

Prophecy, visions etc are a staple of the Bible and denominations approved by God.

I know many Christians that have interaction with God from basic illumination from the Holy Spirit to visions of Jesus and the Saints like the Virgin Mary to even Angelic encounters.

Certain denominations like the reformed reject any supernatural occurances because they do not have any such. They do not have any because they reject the Holiness required by God as taught by the denominations that do experience these things.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/13/2011 4:09:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 3:54:37 PM, Jon1 wrote:
At 11/12/2011 3:38:38 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net...

Enjoy, lol.

Hehe, it's funny, I admit, but he doesn't exactly represent the Christian community. I sense that he may be either trolling or an atheist in disguise. Though, there are many idiots in this world.

Agreed,
It is why I said convenient.
I have only known anti-theists to reflect a mindless devotion to one philosophy.
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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11/13/2011 10:57:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/12/2011 3:48:24 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Convenient.

I have met Jesus.
Countless people have also met Jesus.

Really? That is fascinating? What kind of shoes did he wear? Did he have a funny Jewish ascent? Did he have the head of a raptor and the wings of an eagle? Did you take any pictures? Please, share them!
turn down for h'what
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/14/2011 5:50:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 3:22:18 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Are you attempting to point to an exception rather than the rule? I can think of very very few examples where the Muslim leaders were not the aggressors in history.
Muslims do not have a monopoly of aggression. They never did. The fact that you cannot think of Muslim leaders who were not aggressors shows your limited understanding of history. Moreover, try to remember how your religion spread to the farthest north to the farthest south, farthest west to the farthest east. Try to remember why certain people are given apologies from current Christian governments because of what Christians did to them in the past.

Obviously the growth of Islam is not caused by its "perceived" accuracy. I offered that for the readers interest not your own.
That's irrelevant. Stick to the topic. And, the growth of Islam can be attributed to many things. There are too many people who convert to Islam in the West, freely of course. You think that birth rates being high is the only explanation. Think again.

Oh, I get it! The majority of Muslims are just misinterpreting the Will of Allah. Even if, your minority view is correct, I am not inclined to credit the "size" and "greatness" of Islam beyond its majority proponents.
You need to define what a Muslim is. In our modern world it is very hard to define one group. Muslims are one of the biggest groups in the world, ever, and today they are scattered in almost every existing country. Those countries have very different lifestyles and cultures, and saying that "Muslims" are the same by looking at those in Egypt and ignoring those in Indonesia is stupid. You can't generalize that way.

And you know what's considered an abomination in your religion? Homosexuality. Adultery too. And on top of that, we have fornication and intoxicants being detested explicitly too. You know who masters all those? The West. And you seem to love the West, yet Westerners go totally against your religion. Should I judge Christianity based on the deeds of Westerners? In that case, I'm not gonna give it much respect.

Most denominations do not keep children on their membership roles. The Catholic church is an exception. The numbers remain the same.
"The Catholic church is an exception."

Uh, yes? And you know that it is the largest? It is larger than all the other denominations combined. So keep trying my friend.

Being that I am Christian, within a Christian culture dominant, I deny the accuracy of the statement.
Christians even allow and give a forum to atheists etc. We do not kill dissenting opinions, unless those opinions cause immediate harm.

Muslims have always restricted, oppressed and killed dissenting opinions.
There are groups in America which oppose the fact that closeted non-Christians do not dare to explicitly talk about their beliefs! And you just deny that by saying, "Uh I'm a Christian in a Christian culture."

Your claims are based on blind faith.

Sure.
Yes, be proud of that. But there's a difference between Faith and blind faith. You have the latter.

Syria specifically in a recent poll. Iran and theocratic countries would not allow the poll as they new the outcome would be much higher.
What are you talking about?

That again is equivocating. Would you oppress a people who view Jesus to be God and your Lord? Of course, traditionally Muslims oppress such a religion.
Any other claim is historically false.
Many Muslims had established peace with Christians. In Spain, Muslims let Jews and Christians prosper - no non-Christian was allowed to be free in the rest of Europe. When the Ottoman Empire conquered Bosnia, some of the first established rules were that religious freedom must not be compromised, and that every person has the right to believe in what he wishes.

History, check that out.

I am not saying you have a variant muslim view but the majority restrict and oppress the adherents of Christianity rather than hold them in esteem.
Good for you.
Veridas
Posts: 733
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11/14/2011 6:01:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Now that I think on it, I met Jesus once too.

The thing is, I don't think the bible was entirely accurate.

I mean, for starters, he was in America, rather than Jerusalem.

Secondly, he didn't even look like he was from the middle east, he was mostly clean shaven save for a mustache and he didn't wear robes, just a ratty old t-shirt and some jeans.

Thirdly, he was mowing some rich cow's lawn.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/14/2011 6:04:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I heard that Jesus just left Chicago, and is bound for New Orleans.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp