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Serious question to Christians

izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/13/2011 10:58:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
it seems as though you are contradicting the resurection as well as the birth. So I will talk about the birth. Well here is the only explanation I can give, faith. Faith comes when you just feel something, something athiests just havent gotten yet or just never will. It is belif in something because something...tells you. if you know what I mean. The Christians will know what I mean. So since we belive god gave marry a baby then we belive that she gave birth a virgin. So it come down to faith.
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/13/2011 11:01:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Spooky.
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izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/13/2011 11:14:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 10:58:20 PM, 16kadams wrote:
it seems as though you are contradicting the resurection as well as the birth. So I will talk about the birth. Well here is the only explanation I can give, faith. Faith comes when you just feel something, something athiests just havent gotten yet or just never will. It is belif in something because something...tells you. if you know what I mean. The Christians will know what I mean. So since we belive god gave marry a baby then we belive that she gave birth a virgin. So it come down to faith.

So it basically comes down to special pleading and being irrational.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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11/13/2011 11:15:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm not a Christian but I suspect that we atheists would refuse to believe in such accounts since the event that they describe are not adequate, based on the standards of historicity.

What do you say, Izbo10?
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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11/13/2011 11:27:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?

I'd be more inclined to believe them if they had the same extenuating circumstances that the early Christians did.
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BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/13/2011 11:34:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?

Of all the history you believe you know, do you know who recorded that history? Under that lens, how could you gauge the legitimacy of anything you believe you know about the past?
Rockylightning
Posts: 2,862
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11/13/2011 11:45:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?

The authenticity of the bible is debated.

Personally, I believe the most realistic definition for the bible is classic literature with many symbols and underlying themes, like a "Poor Richard's Almanac" of its day.

Instead, it has grown to be a huge religion, that defines how people live, how laws are passed, and ultimately how the world works.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/13/2011 11:50:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?

Nope, I am not too sure what the education level has to do with it but no.

Cause people lie/and or can be mistaken.

They only have their own assertion and no independent evidence to back it up.

If we are going to believe claims by this standard then we have to believe then all, and that's gonna be a huge problem.

Its more plausible they are lying/mistaken than the miracle they report is truth.

Sam Harris starting at 3:10.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/14/2011 7:07:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 11:27:05 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?

I'd be more inclined to believe them if they had the same extenuating circumstances that the early Christians did.

what might those circumstances be?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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11/14/2011 8:41:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 11:27:05 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?

I'd be more inclined to believe them if they had the same extenuating circumstances that the early Christians did.

I completely agree.

We as Christians experience supernatural events all of the time. I myself have a list of supernatural experiences.
If Jesus came up to me a blind man and cured my blindness I would be sold.

Additionally the vast number of miracles of the disciples who taught us about Jesus after the fact. Peter's shadow alone healed people as he passed by them.

You might still have a doubt, in today's day and age until you personally experience the miracles. After meeting God, your doubts would be eliminated.

Remember the Christian claim is not just to blindly trust your pastor, but to experience God as God is able to be experienced.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/14/2011 8:49:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 8:41:44 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 11/13/2011 11:27:05 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?

I'd be more inclined to believe them if they had the same extenuating circumstances that the early Christians did.

I completely agree.

We as Christians experience supernatural events all of the time. I myself have a list of supernatural experiences.
If Jesus came up to me a blind man and cured my blindness I would be sold.

Additionally the vast number of miracles of the disciples who taught us about Jesus after the fact. Peter's shadow alone healed people as he passed by them.

You might still have a doubt, in today's day and age until you personally experience the miracles. After meeting God, your doubts would be eliminated.

Remember the Christian claim is not just to blindly trust your pastor, but to experience God as God is able to be experienced.

Is there a single documented supernatural healing that has convinced a single doctor?

I don't mean cancer going into remission, or someone being told they will never walk only to later run the london marathon. Those stories are ten a penny, I mean something that genuinely baffles a doctor to the point that it could only have been supernatural.

An amputee growing back a limb for instance, someone dead for a week coming back to life?
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WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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11/14/2011 9:05:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 10:44:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Since 4 supposed eyewitness accounts(they weren't really even close to eye witness accounts) are enough to convince you that a man died and rose from the dead(only 3 actually make this claim) and that he was born of a virgin(only 2 actually make this claim), would you believe 4 middle eastern men of lower education if they made the same claims about someone living today? If no, why not?

No. Even back when I believed the accounts about Jesus, I still wouldn't have believed so about someone today. I mean, a man being resurrected long ago can't really be proven or disproven, but someone in the present can easily be disproven if a fake. Also, I just don't believe anymore in general.

Like with relics. How do you know it matched Jesus's DNA? You have Jesus's DNA? How? Then they can't give a good answer.