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Izbo's Philosophy Class: Kalams Cosmological

izbo10
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11/16/2011 4:29:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok, today class we are going to discuss Kalams cosmological argument. I will be using this form of the argument.

Everything that began to exist has a cause.
The Universe began to exist
Therefore the Universe has a cause.

After this Christian philosophers give up on syllogism and state that the cause must be timeless and immaterial and therefore that cause is god.

We are going to begin our study looking at the syllogism portion of the argument.
Premise 1: Everything that began to exist has a cause.

This premise is fine I will accept this based on inductive reasoning. Everything that we have seen that began to exist has a cause. The problem is that everything that we have seen that has began to exist is a part of the universe. Everything in the universe has had a cause since it began to exist. Here is where it gets fallacious:

The Universe is this set: ( everything that began to exist).

Now I understand some theists may be saying that angels and demons exist beyond the universe, that is neither here nor there, they rely on gods existence and are not proven. Therefore we have no reason to believe they exist and cannot actually be used.

Premise 2: The universe began to exist

While not undisputed by all scientists, it could be that the universe never began to exist, this premise seems somewhat supported by modern science.

Conclusion: The universe has a cause

At this point it is time to explain a logical fallacy here:

The Fallacy of composition- This is basically the idea that it is fallacious to attribute an attribute the individual pieces of the group to the entire group.

http://www.nizkor.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Now since, to get our first premise through inductive reasoning we had to use parts of the set of the universe, we would then be attributing what we know about parts of the universe, to the entire universe. That is the fallacy of composition in its most basic form.

We can show this once we see it like this:

our set of the universe was : (Everything that began to exist)

So we can easily substitute all the parts of the universe have a cause as the first premise, as we have surmised this through inductive reasoning. Once we realize premise 1 is interchangable with this the fallacy is blatantly obvious, but what I am saying is this:

Everything that began to exist = all the parts of the universe have a cause

the argument could easily be restated as this:

All the parts of the universe have a cause
The universe began to exist
therefore the universe has a cause

If you see that the first premise is equal to all the parts of the universe have a cause you see the fallacy of composition quite clear. So, certainly it could be that the universe is the uncaused cause and a brute fact.

Now for the fun of it lets assume that the actual syllogism wasn't so blatantly flawed. I gotta wonder where do Christian Philosophers like Craig get that the cause must be timeless and immaterial, certainly not inductive reasoning as no causes we can demonstrate meet either criteria. There is no proof such a thing could even exist. At this point the Christian Philosophers are relying on you to be thinking the only cause could be god. I propose that there are many other possible causes such as: Multiverses, repeating universe, Maranimacons(magic universe creating fairy like creatures), a mother universe of sorts that is eternal.... the list can go on. At this point the theologian or philosopher has merely asserted his particular to god into this gap, making it an argument from ignorance or god of the gaps fallacy to close out the argument. He just ignores other possible causes. I have often heard Christian Philosophers say these are not believed by the majority of scientists, well guess what neither is your god, that doesn't give you an advantage.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

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PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/16/2011 5:27:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Blah, blah, blah... Fap, fap, fap.... Herp-derp.... my name is Izbo, and I are so smart.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Rusty
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11/16/2011 5:31:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 5:27:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Blah, blah, blah... Fap, fap, fap.... Herp-derp.... my name is Izbo, and I are so smart.

You know, I don't think he made an insult during that entire post- just saying. Maybe not the best thread choice.
izbo10
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11/16/2011 5:44:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 5:31:39 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 11/16/2011 5:27:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Blah, blah, blah... Fap, fap, fap.... Herp-derp.... my name is Izbo, and I are so smart.

You know, I don't think he made an insult during that entire post- just saying. Maybe not the best thread choice.

Its a good choice, as on this site this nonsense is often brought up as a reason to believe in god.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/16/2011 5:53:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 5:31:39 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 11/16/2011 5:27:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Blah, blah, blah... Fap, fap, fap.... Herp-derp.... my name is Izbo, and I are so smart.

You know, I don't think he made an insult during that entire post- just saying. Maybe not the best thread choice.:

Izbo continues to arrogantly try to "school" people on things he sufficiently demonstrates that he knows nothing about. We're all well past giving a crap about anything he has to say. This is the consequence of his piety.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
izbo10
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11/16/2011 5:59:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 5:53:28 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 11/16/2011 5:31:39 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 11/16/2011 5:27:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Blah, blah, blah... Fap, fap, fap.... Herp-derp.... my name is Izbo, and I are so smart.

You know, I don't think he made an insult during that entire post- just saying. Maybe not the best thread choice.:

Izbo continues to arrogantly try to "school" people on things he sufficiently demonstrates that he knows nothing about. We're all well past giving a crap about anything he has to say. This is the consequence of his piety.

this was way over your head, you probably were not even remotely aware that the fallacy of composition even existed.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
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11/16/2011 6:28:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Izbo10, I do hope you try to polish your presidential image...Arguing in the religious forums won't help you get elected, my dear insurance man....
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Mr.Infidel
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11/16/2011 6:29:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 6:28:42 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Izbo10, I do hope you try to polish your presidential image...Arguing in the religious forums won't help you get elected, my dear insurance man....

I think I have a better chance of winning the debate.org election.
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izbo10
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11/16/2011 6:34:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
does anyone have anything useful to say, so far the problem has been both mig and mr. infidel are still in high school, so neither is capable of understanding philosophy yet, as they are at least a couple years away from their first class in philosophy.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/16/2011 6:56:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
this was way over your head, you probably were not even remotely aware that the fallacy of composition even existed.:

How would we ever get along without your invaluable wisdom here on DDO?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Crede
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11/16/2011 7:13:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am assuming you've never actually read any of his work since Craig has refuted everything you have used to try and dissasemble this argument.
Gileandos
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11/16/2011 7:17:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 4:29:04 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Ok, today class we are going to discuss Kalams cosmological argument. I will be using this form of the argument.

Everything that began to exist has a cause.
The Universe began to exist
Therefore the Universe has a cause.


After this Christian philosophers give up on syllogism and state that the cause must be timeless and immaterial and therefore that cause is god.

We are going to begin our study looking at the syllogism portion of the argument.
Premise 1: Everything that began to exist has a cause.

This premise is fine I will accept this based on inductive reasoning. Everything that we have seen that began to exist has a cause. The problem is that everything that we have seen that has began to exist is a part of the universe. Everything in the universe has had a cause since it began to exist. Here is where it gets fallacious:

The Universe is this set: ( everything that began to exist).

Now I understand some theists may be saying that angels and demons exist beyond the universe, that is neither here nor there, they rely on gods existence and are not proven. Therefore we have no reason to believe they exist and cannot actually be used.

Angels and demons are outside this dimensional space not outside of the universe.
Metaphysics are outside of the physical universe, not outside of existence as a whole.


Premise 2: The universe began to exist

While not undisputed by all scientists, it could be that the universe never began to exist, this premise seems somewhat supported by modern science.

It is better stated that clearly the universe should be considered to far more likely have a starting point than be eternal.


Conclusion: The universe has a cause

At this point it is time to explain a logical fallacy here:

The Fallacy of composition- This is basically the idea that it is fallacious to attribute an attribute the individual pieces of the group to the entire group.

http://www.nizkor.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Now since, to get our first premise through inductive reasoning we had to use parts of the set of the universe, we would then be attributing what we know about parts of the universe, to the entire universe. That is the fallacy of composition in its most basic form.

That is incredibly sad.
It is not a fallacy when everything physical, that is known to exist, indeed has a cause.
It would only be a fallacy if you had several points of evidence that attributed this.

Anything that is physical that is posed by the athiestic community as "Causeless" also has its roots in extra-dimensional space, which is physical but any cause would be unseen.


We can show this once we see it like this:

our set of the universe was : (Everything that began to exist)

So we can easily substitute all the parts of the universe have a cause as the first premise, as we have surmised this through inductive reasoning. Once we realize premise 1 is interchangable with this the fallacy is blatantly obvious, but what I am saying is this:

Everything that began to exist = all the parts of the universe have a cause

the argument could easily be restated as this:

All the parts of the universe have a cause
The universe began to exist
therefore the universe has a cause

If you see that the first premise is equal to all the parts of the universe have a cause you see the fallacy of composition quite clear. So, certainly it could be that the universe is the uncaused cause and a brute fact.

Let me show you why this is not a fallacy:
1:All parts of a goat have a cause
2:Goats began to exist
3:therefore goats have a cause.

This should be clear.

Now for the fun of it lets assume that the actual syllogism wasn't so blatantly flawed. I gotta wonder where do Christian Philosophers like Craig get that the cause must be timeless and immaterial, certainly not inductive reasoning as no causes we can demonstrate meet either criteria. There is no proof such a thing could even exist.

Proof is inside of every person, while trying to avoid the obvious snide comment, its called a Mind? It is a metaphysical uncaused abstract object like a the value of four.

Like the value of four which is metaphysical and thus causeless, timeless and immaterial so is the mind. How much greater the Mind of God.

At this point the Christian Philosophers are relying on you to be thinking the only cause could be god. I propose that there are many other possible causes such as: Multiverses, repeating universe, Maranimacons(magic universe creating fairy like creatures), a mother universe of sorts that is eternal.... the list can go on.

We only have proof that Minds and abstract metaphysical objects exist like the value of four.
Minds are the only non-physical objects that create.
No others in your list have a value of having scientific observable existence.
Additionally, any posed evidence for "other" universes are cited as more credible under extra-dimensional space.

The rest of your statement below is reduced to irrelevancy.
At this point the theologian or philosopher has merely asserted his particular to god into this gap, making it an argument from ignorance or god of the gaps fallacy to close out the argument. He just ignores other possible causes. I have often heard Christian Philosophers say these are not believed by the majority of scientists, well guess what neither is your god, that doesn't give you an advantage.
izbo10
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11/16/2011 7:31:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 7:13:13 PM, Crede wrote:
I am assuming you've never actually read any of his work since Craig has refuted everything you have used to try and dissasemble this argument.

OH, is that so, really why don't you enlighten us, bet you don't know what his arguments were, because they don't exist.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/16/2011 7:39:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 7:36:21 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/16/2011 5:27:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Herp-derp....

You play Warcraft?:

Never played it before.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
izbo10
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11/16/2011 7:42:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
All Quotations are Gileandos
"That is incredibly sad.
It is not a fallacy when everything physical, that is known to exist, indeed has a cause.
It would only be a fallacy if you had several points of evidence that attributed this.

Anything that is physical that is posed by the athiestic community as "Causeless" also has its roots in extra-dimensional space, which is physical but any cause would be unseen"

You amazingly fail to see the point, the universe is not a physical thing, but the set of all physical things, it is fallacious to attribute the attributes of a part of a set to the entire set, maybe you should have fuckin looked at the links about this fallacy before embarrassing yourself?

"Let me show you why this is not a fallacy:
1:All parts of a goat have a cause
2:Goats began to exist
3:therefore goats have a cause.

This should be clear."

Actually if you understood fallacies you would see that it is fallacious reasoning, a fallacy does not mean it can't end up coming to the right conclusion, that is the fallacy of fallacies. It means that the premises are not sufficient to draw the conclusion. Your example is a blatant example of the fallacy of composition. We know goats have a cause through inductive reasoning of seeing other animals reproducing and goats reproducing to cause other goats. We have also demonstrated this through science. We did not come to this conclusion based on the parts of a goat having a cause.

"Proof is inside of every person, while trying to avoid the obvious snide comment, its called a Mind? It is a metaphysical uncaused abstract object like a the value of four.

Like the value of four which is metaphysical and thus causeless, timeless and immaterial so is the mind. How much greater the Mind of God."

"
We only have proof that Minds and abstract metaphysical objects exist like the value of four.
Minds are the only non-physical objects that create.
No others in your list have a value of having scientific observable existence.
Additionally, any posed evidence for "other" universes are cited as more credible under extra-dimensional space.

The rest of your statement below is reduced to irrelevancy."

Minds are not nonphysical objects neuroscience tells us the mind is merely the function of a brain. We have never seen a mind without a brain before. Strange huh?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
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11/16/2011 7:44:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Izbo10, does lechery set you up and down?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
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11/16/2011 7:46:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.fallacyfiles.org...
http://www.logicalfallacies.info...
http://instruct.westvalley.edu...
http://www.ozarkia.net...

Please for the love of maranimacons study the fallacy of composition before posting again, to anyone who doesn't grasp it.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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11/16/2011 7:56:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I wish people would try to learn from my posts,your refutations are embarrassing. These posts are solid philosophically and logically sound posts that you should learn from, not attempt to refute, you can't do it.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)
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InsertNameHere
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11/16/2011 8:18:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

Omg I adore cats too!

Sorry, had to. xD
izbo10
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11/16/2011 8:22:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

whats the matter mr. neff, cat got your tongue on this one?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Mr.Infidel
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11/16/2011 8:23:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:22:04 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

whats the matter mr. neff, cat got your tongue on this one?

Lol you have long sense been refuted and shown how YOU do not understand logic.

I challenge you "Resolved: The Existence of god is more probable than not."
Please donate to the following ENDANGERED SPECIES!
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izbo10
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11/16/2011 8:26:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:23:56 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:22:04 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

whats the matter mr. neff, cat got your tongue on this one?

Lol you have long sense been refuted and shown how YOU do not understand logic.

I challenge you "Resolved: The Existence of god is more probable than not."

little boy you weren't even capable of handling a basic solipsism response, what makes you think you can do this?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
InsertNameHere
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11/16/2011 8:26:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:23:56 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:22:04 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

whats the matter mr. neff, cat got your tongue on this one?

Lol you have long sense been refuted and shown how YOU do not understand logic.

I challenge you "Resolved: The Existence of god is more probable than not."

Shhhhhhhh!!!! Don't ever tell Izbo he doesn't understand logic!
izbo10
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11/16/2011 8:26:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:23:56 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:22:04 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

whats the matter mr. neff, cat got your tongue on this one?

Lol you have long sense been refuted and shown how YOU do not understand logic.

I challenge you "Resolved: The Existence of god is more probable than not."

So from here on out mr. neff please stay on topic.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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11/16/2011 8:26:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:26:03 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:23:56 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:22:04 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

whats the matter mr. neff, cat got your tongue on this one?

Lol you have long sense been refuted and shown how YOU do not understand logic.

I challenge you "Resolved: The Existence of god is more probable than not."

little boy you weren't even capable of handling a basic solipsism response, what makes you think you can do this?

Lol...the fact you're the biggest idiot on the website. :-)
Please donate to the following ENDANGERED SPECIES!
Preciousness of life.
Family structure.
Family values. 

Disarm a liberal. Vote for values.

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izbo10
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11/16/2011 8:29:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:26:52 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:26:03 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:23:56 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:22:04 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

whats the matter mr. neff, cat got your tongue on this one?

Lol you have long sense been refuted and shown how YOU do not understand logic.

I challenge you "Resolved: The Existence of god is more probable than not."

little boy you weren't even capable of handling a basic solipsism response, what makes you think you can do this?

Lol...the fact you're the biggest idiot on the website. :-)

little boy before our debate you didn't even know what solipsism was is hilarious.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Mr.Infidel
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11/16/2011 8:31:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 8:29:47 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:26:52 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:26:03 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:23:56 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:22:04 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/16/2011 8:18:01 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I'm bored of izbo's ranting. It is time to hijack.

I love cats :-)

whats the matter mr. neff, cat got your tongue on this one?

Lol you have long sense been refuted and shown how YOU do not understand logic.

I challenge you "Resolved: The Existence of god is more probable than not."

little boy you weren't even capable of handling a basic solipsism response, what makes you think you can do this?

Lol...the fact you're the biggest idiot on the website. :-)


little boy before our debate you didn't even know what solipsism was is hilarious.

Come on, it is a free win for you :-) I find it hilarious you couldn't defend the position that you are an idiot and a troll.
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Rusty
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11/16/2011 8:36:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2011 5:53:28 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 11/16/2011 5:31:39 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 11/16/2011 5:27:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Blah, blah, blah... Fap, fap, fap.... Herp-derp.... my name is Izbo, and I are so smart.

You know, I don't think he made an insult during that entire post- just saying. Maybe not the best thread choice.:

Izbo continues to arrogantly try to "school" people on things he sufficiently demonstrates that he knows nothing about. We're all well past giving a crap about anything he has to say. This is the consequence of his piety.

All I'm saying is that this particular thread is relatively tame and that there's no reason to go around trying to start a fire. Anyhow, I'm done w/ this thread.