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Joseph Smith and Religious Text on Plates

TheTruthAnalyst
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11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
TheTruthAnalyst
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11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/22/2011 3:07:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.

How are my comments immature? This is what the Mormons actually believe. Maybe if it is that important to you then you could do some research for yourself?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
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11/22/2011 3:21:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 3:07:38 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.

How are my comments immature? This is what the Mormons actually believe. Maybe if it is that important to you then you could do some research for yourself?

I asked for opinions on why Joseph Smith would make a then-ridiculous claim about religious texts on metallic plates.

You went off-topic, appealing to ridicule(made up language and magic stones).

Don't you at least find it interesting that he would make the claim of inscriptions on metallic plates, and since we have recovered many samples of that exact thing?
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/22/2011 3:48:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 3:21:12 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:07:38 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.

How are my comments immature? This is what the Mormons actually believe. Maybe if it is that important to you then you could do some research for yourself?

I asked for opinions on why Joseph Smith would make a then-ridiculous claim about religious texts on metallic plates.

You went off-topic, appealing to ridicule(made up language and magic stones).

Don't you at least find it interesting that he would make the claim of inscriptions on metallic plates, and since we have recovered many samples of that exact thing?

Maybe he was a con artist, or simply insane, and no we have recovered nothing like what he claims to have done so.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
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11/22/2011 3:51:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 3:48:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:21:12 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:07:38 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.

How are my comments immature? This is what the Mormons actually believe. Maybe if it is that important to you then you could do some research for yourself?

I asked for opinions on why Joseph Smith would make a then-ridiculous claim about religious texts on metallic plates.

You went off-topic, appealing to ridicule(made up language and magic stones).

Don't you at least find it interesting that he would make the claim of inscriptions on metallic plates, and since we have recovered many samples of that exact thing?

Maybe he was a con artist, or simply insane, and no we have recovered nothing like what he claims to have done so.

We haven't recovered religious inscriptions on metallic plates? Is that your claim?

If he was just a con artist, then I would say he was lucky in claiming such... if he was insane, well, still lucky.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/22/2011 4:04:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 3:51:28 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:48:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:21:12 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:07:38 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.

How are my comments immature? This is what the Mormons actually believe. Maybe if it is that important to you then you could do some research for yourself?

I asked for opinions on why Joseph Smith would make a then-ridiculous claim about religious texts on metallic plates.

You went off-topic, appealing to ridicule(made up language and magic stones).

Don't you at least find it interesting that he would make the claim of inscriptions on metallic plates, and since we have recovered many samples of that exact thing?

Maybe he was a con artist, or simply insane, and no we have recovered nothing like what he claims to have done so.

We haven't recovered religious inscriptions on metallic plates? Is that your claim?

If he was just a con artist, then I would say he was lucky in claiming such... if he was insane, well, still lucky.

We have not recovered similar stories in a fictional language on a golden plate that have been translated with the aid of magic stones. No. There is nothing to support his claims.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Veridas
Posts: 733
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11/22/2011 4:55:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

The burden of proof rests purely on Joseph to prove these plates existed. The idea that the angel Moron would want Joseph to tell these people the contents of the plates, but not actually see them, reeks of some kind of cosmic joke.

I mean Angels must have some way of getting wasted, they work for the most all-knowing boss in existence and have no career change options, they have to be into some strong sh*t. I reckon if Joseph isn't full of crap, and I honestly believe he was, then the whole thing was some joke that Moron and a few other angels made up just to f*ck with us.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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11/22/2011 6:04:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There is evidence that Mr. Smith was a bit of a con artist. He had a reputation in his home town of being a slacker, who would tell people he knew where they could find treasure and, for a fee, take them to an area where he would tell them to dig. When they said they found nothing he would tell them they hadn't dug deep enough.

The plates issue has been looked into for years. No one but Smith ever saw the plates. One of his early followers claimed to have seen them "with his spiritual eyes". Smith was illiterate and dictated the "translation. The drawing Smith made has been found to be, most probably, from a report in the news about a find in the mid east of burial instructions.

Mormonism is interesting on alot of levels. One of the most interesting is the contemporary documentation. Andrew Greely went to Utah to interview Young about the "religion" and wrote an interesting article. In it he claimed that women were almost unseen, and spoke to him not at all.

The Doctrines of Mormonism are also bizare, for want of a term. They believe all men are gods who will get to populate their own planet. They believe Jesus and Lucifer were brothers god just like every male mormon. They recently have begun using terms used by other main stream religioins, but Mormons give them a different definition. eg Christian. Mormons think that since they believe Jesus (and Smith) are gods, they are Christians. Also, still accept polygamy, otherwise they would excommunicate Smith and Young.

Mormons hold that since they are the only TRUE RELIGION they should control everything. Smith had his own Army and wanted to be President. When they get power hey exert tremendous pressure on non Mormons and let Mormons in good standing do as they please. In Utah now, DUI stops sometimes involve Police brutality. The only thing worse than Obama might be a Mormon. Not just because they are Mormon, but because of the mentality it takes to accept their Doctrine and Covenants, you have to be a bit nuts.
lotus_flower
Posts: 454
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11/22/2011 7:34:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Because he wanted an excuse to discriminate against women, and exploit and spread lies about black people and gays. He was a convicted fraud, and his "holy book" has several flaws. It is the most ridiculous set of beliefs, (aside from Scientology) that I can think of. (and before all of the LDS members b¡tch at me and scream "ad-homonym", I have facts to back it up.)
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
- Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
*******************************************************
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
lotus_flower
Posts: 454
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11/22/2011 7:47:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 3:21:12 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:07:38 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.

How are my comments immature? This is what the Mormons actually believe. Maybe if it is that important to you then you could do some research for yourself?

I asked for opinions on why Joseph Smith would make a then-ridiculous claim about religious texts on metallic plates.

You went off-topic, appealing to ridicule(made up language and magic stones).

Don't you at least find it interesting that he would make the claim of inscriptions on metallic plates, and since we have recovered many samples of that exact thing?

No, it really was a made up language. I believe it is called "Reformed Egyptian." a language which there is no proof of anyone EVER speaking. He even wrote a book about how to speak it. When his book was compared to real Egyptian, NONE of it was the same. Just Google Reformed Egyptian, and you will see it. Also, the whole "seeing stone" thing is true. He supposedly took the golden plates, put them into a top hat, and threw the stones in with it. He then put his face into the hat, and started to "read" the "Reformed Egyptian".
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
- Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
*******************************************************
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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11/22/2011 8:57:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?:

Why would David Koresh create a compound in Waco, TX claiming to be the messiah?

Why would the Heaven's Gate people kill themselves with Nike shoe's on during the Hale Bop comet event?

Why would Jim Jones create a society in the Ghana jungle and then force them to drink poison-laced Kool-Aid?

Because they're f*cking crazy, narcissistic @ssholes.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/22/2011 9:19:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

$$$

He was a known con-man.
TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
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11/22/2011 9:45:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 4:04:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:51:28 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:48:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:21:12 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:07:38 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.

How are my comments immature? This is what the Mormons actually believe. Maybe if it is that important to you then you could do some research for yourself?

I asked for opinions on why Joseph Smith would make a then-ridiculous claim about religious texts on metallic plates.

You went off-topic, appealing to ridicule(made up language and magic stones).

Don't you at least find it interesting that he would make the claim of inscriptions on metallic plates, and since we have recovered many samples of that exact thing?

Maybe he was a con artist, or simply insane, and no we have recovered nothing like what he claims to have done so.

We haven't recovered religious inscriptions on metallic plates? Is that your claim?

If he was just a con artist, then I would say he was lucky in claiming such... if he was insane, well, still lucky.

We have not recovered similar stories in a fictional language on a golden plate that have been translated with the aid of magic stones. No. There is nothing to support his claims.

Why is it so hard for you to address the topic? We have discovered metallic plates with religious inscriptions, as well as plates that tell personal histories or act as rewards. I am trying to have discussion about that topic. If you want to ridicule Mormonism rather than address my actual question, why don't you make your own thread?
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TheTruthAnalyst
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11/22/2011 9:48:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 4:55:33 AM, Veridas wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

The burden of proof rests purely on Joseph to prove these plates existed. The idea that the angel Moron would want Joseph to tell these people the contents of the plates, but not actually see them, reeks of some kind of cosmic joke.

I mean Angels must have some way of getting wasted, they work for the most all-knowing boss in existence and have no career change options, they have to be into some strong sh*t. I reckon if Joseph isn't full of crap, and I honestly believe he was, then the whole thing was some joke that Moron and a few other angels made up just to f*ck with us.

I'm not trying to prove anything. Again, I was simply looking for discussion about the claim of metallic plates in relation to archaeological discoveries.
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Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/22/2011 9:48:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Joseph Smith had a scribe write down the book of Mormon. Of course since he did have no golden plates he was translating from, he put up a barrier between him and the scribe so the scribe could not see what he was doing.
TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
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11/22/2011 9:51:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 6:04:54 AM, logicrules wrote:
There is evidence that Mr. Smith was a bit of a con artist. He had a reputation in his home town of being a slacker, who would tell people he knew where they could find treasure and, for a fee, take them to an area where he would tell them to dig. When they said they found nothing he would tell them they hadn't dug deep enough.

The plates issue has been looked into for years. No one but Smith ever saw the plates. One of his early followers claimed to have seen them "with his spiritual eyes". Smith was illiterate and dictated the "translation. The drawing Smith made has been found to be, most probably, from a report in the news about a find in the mid east of burial instructions.

Mormonism is interesting on alot of levels. One of the most interesting is the contemporary documentation. Andrew Greely went to Utah to interview Young about the "religion" and wrote an interesting article. In it he claimed that women were almost unseen, and spoke to him not at all.

The Doctrines of Mormonism are also bizare, for want of a term. They believe all men are gods who will get to populate their own planet. They believe Jesus and Lucifer were brothers god just like every male mormon. They recently have begun using terms used by other main stream religioins, but Mormons give them a different definition. eg Christian. Mormons think that since they believe Jesus (and Smith) are gods, they are Christians. Also, still accept polygamy, otherwise they would excommunicate Smith and Young.

Mormons hold that since they are the only TRUE RELIGION they should control everything. Smith had his own Army and wanted to be President. When they get power hey exert tremendous pressure on non Mormons and let Mormons in good standing do as they please. In Utah now, DUI stops sometimes involve Police brutality. The only thing worse than Obama might be a Mormon. Not just because they are Mormon, but because of the mentality it takes to accept their Doctrine and Covenants, you have to be a bit nuts.

I know quite a bit about Mormonism. I'm not asking if I should join the church or anything like that. Do you have an opinion about the claim of metallic plates?

For polygamy, should all Christians denounce Abraham?
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TheTruthAnalyst
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11/22/2011 9:54:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 7:34:08 AM, lotus_flower wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Because he wanted an excuse to discriminate against women, and exploit and spread lies about black people and gays. He was a convicted fraud, and his "holy book" has several flaws. It is the most ridiculous set of beliefs, (aside from Scientology) that I can think of. (and before all of the LDS members b¡tch at me and scream "ad-homonym", I have facts to back it up.)

I realize many people have very strong feelings about Mormons, but that's not what I was asking. He could have just had the Book of Mormon dictated to him directly from God, but he chose metallic plates. That's the question for this thread.
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logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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11/22/2011 10:00:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 9:54:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 7:34:08 AM, lotus_flower wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Because he wanted an excuse to discriminate against women, and exploit and spread lies about black people and gays. He was a convicted fraud, and his "holy book" has several flaws. It is the most ridiculous set of beliefs, (aside from Scientology) that I can think of. (and before all of the LDS members b¡tch at me and scream "ad-homonym", I have facts to back it up.)

I realize many people have very strong feelings about Mormons, but that's not what I was asking. He could have just had the Book of Mormon dictated to him directly from God, but he chose metallic plates. That's the question for this thread.

He was a con man....he considered himself God, so e needed to convince, also needed excuses for his desires with women. He probably thought his small number of followers wouldn't accept direct communication YET Also, he as into power, trial and error to get to IL and then he went to far. By today's standards he was apedophile, a sex addict, murderer and rapist, in LDS hes a founder....go figure.
TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
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11/22/2011 10:01:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 7:47:33 AM, lotus_flower wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:21:12 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 3:07:38 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:53:29 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:49:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So he found golden plates written in a made up language and translated them with magic stones, none of these items have ever been recovered, when some of the translated pages went missing he was unable to re-translate them.

I am not convinced.

Actually, I was hoping for some mature discussion. FYI, I'm not a Mormon or trying to push any agenda, it's just something that has been pecking at the back of my mind.

Thanks for contributing anyway... I guess.

How are my comments immature? This is what the Mormons actually believe. Maybe if it is that important to you then you could do some research for yourself?

I asked for opinions on why Joseph Smith would make a then-ridiculous claim about religious texts on metallic plates.

You went off-topic, appealing to ridicule(made up language and magic stones).

Don't you at least find it interesting that he would make the claim of inscriptions on metallic plates, and since we have recovered many samples of that exact thing?

No, it really was a made up language. I believe it is called "Reformed Egyptian." a language which there is no proof of anyone EVER speaking. He even wrote a book about how to speak it. When his book was compared to real Egyptian, NONE of it was the same. Just Google Reformed Egyptian, and you will see it. Also, the whole "seeing stone" thing is true. He supposedly took the golden plates, put them into a top hat, and threw the stones in with it. He then put his face into the hat, and started to "read" the "Reformed Egyptian".

Saying that 'Reformed Egyptian' doesn't exist because we have no evidence of it is an argument from ignorance. The Anthon Transcript is thought to be a fake, as it doesn't match the description of the original script Joseph Smith wrote.

If you don't want to talk about the claim of inscriptions on metallic plates that's fine, but don't act like you are talking about it when you aren't. Your descriptions of events and items shows a lack of knowledge, or a purposeful distortion of actual Mormon claims.
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TheTruthAnalyst
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11/22/2011 10:02:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 8:57:04 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?:

Why would David Koresh create a compound in Waco, TX claiming to be the messiah?

Why would the Heaven's Gate people kill themselves with Nike shoe's on during the Hale Bop comet event?

Why would Jim Jones create a society in the Ghana jungle and then force them to drink poison-laced Kool-Aid?

Because they're f*cking crazy, narcissistic @ssholes.

Ok. Thank you, although I think your comparisons are a little extreme and don't actually address my question.
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TheTruthAnalyst
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11/22/2011 10:04:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 6:04:54 AM, logicrules wrote:
The drawing Smith made has been found to be, most probably, from a report in the news about a find in the mid east of burial instructions.

Sorry, I missed this. What drawing? I would be very interested about any news reports of metallic plates at the time.
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11/22/2011 10:05:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 9:48:22 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Joseph Smith had a scribe write down the book of Mormon. Of course since he did have no golden plates he was translating from, he put up a barrier between him and the scribe so the scribe could not see what he was doing.

Do you find it interesting at all that Joseph Smith claimed these writings were inscriptions on metallic plates, in light of archaeological discoveries of important records being engraved on plates?
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TheTruthAnalyst
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11/22/2011 10:07:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 10:00:28 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 11/22/2011 9:54:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 7:34:08 AM, lotus_flower wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Because he wanted an excuse to discriminate against women, and exploit and spread lies about black people and gays. He was a convicted fraud, and his "holy book" has several flaws. It is the most ridiculous set of beliefs, (aside from Scientology) that I can think of. (and before all of the LDS members b¡tch at me and scream "ad-homonym", I have facts to back it up.)

I realize many people have very strong feelings about Mormons, but that's not what I was asking. He could have just had the Book of Mormon dictated to him directly from God, but he chose metallic plates. That's the question for this thread.

He was a con man....he considered himself God, so e needed to convince, also needed excuses for his desires with women. He probably thought his small number of followers wouldn't accept direct communication YET Also, he as into power, trial and error to get to IL and then he went to far. By today's standards he was apedophile, a sex addict, murderer and rapist, in LDS hes a founder....go figure.

I have to say, I figured I would encounter better discussion about a specific point on a debate forum... oh well. Thanks.
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Dan4reason
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11/22/2011 10:16:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 10:05:55 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 9:48:22 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Joseph Smith had a scribe write down the book of Mormon. Of course since he did have no golden plates he was translating from, he put up a barrier between him and the scribe so the scribe could not see what he was doing.

Do you find it interesting at all that Joseph Smith claimed these writings were inscriptions on metallic plates, in light of archaeological discoveries of important records being engraved on plates?

It just makes sense that people would put important work on plates. Putting information on plates is the ultimate way to preserve your record. Stone and clay will chip and in many cases are not very portable. Wood will erode in many cases, paper goes to waste. Metal is the way to go. Either Joseph Smith knew of examples of plates, or he made an educated guess.

If people were to write something down that could be preserved for thousands of years, would material would it be?
TheTruthAnalyst
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11/22/2011 10:22:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 10:16:55 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/22/2011 10:05:55 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/22/2011 9:48:22 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/22/2011 2:45:06 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
I would like to hear opinions about Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. It's not something I have researched, but I would imagine that, at the time, this would be quite a ludicrous claim. However, we have found several examples of religious inscriptions on metallic plates.

Why would Joseph Smith make such a claim? Your thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Joseph Smith had a scribe write down the book of Mormon. Of course since he did have no golden plates he was translating from, he put up a barrier between him and the scribe so the scribe could not see what he was doing.

Do you find it interesting at all that Joseph Smith claimed these writings were inscriptions on metallic plates, in light of archaeological discoveries of important records being engraved on plates?

It just makes sense that people would put important work on plates. Putting information on plates is the ultimate way to preserve your record. Stone and clay will chip and in many cases are not very portable. Wood will erode in many cases, paper goes to waste. Metal is the way to go. Either Joseph Smith knew of examples of plates, or he made an educated guess.

If people were to write something down that could be preserved for thousands of years, would material would it be?

Yet he was ridiculed for claiming that things were written on metal. That's the point. As far as I can tell, the idea was completely ridiculous at the time.

It could be an educated guess... or perhaps there were stories of such plates at the times, but I haven't been able to find any.

Thank you for addressing the topic, I appreciate it.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/22/2011 10:28:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok. Thank you, although I think your comparisons are a little extreme and don't actually address my question.:

Why is it extreme? Also, we don't always understand the motives of false prophets. But it sounds like you're insinuating that if because Joseph Smith claimed a bunch of things, and you can't rationalize why he would lie about, that it must somehow be true by default.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/22/2011 10:30:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
We haven't recovered religious inscriptions on metallic plates? Is that your claim?:

No, he's asking you to entertain the notion that they might be forgeries.
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logicrules
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11/22/2011 10:33:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think what we have here is projection for reinforcement. LDS asserts that the persecution of Smith Proves he was right. They further claim that any and all negative information is more proof that they are the one true faith. Thus, an intellectual discussion is the last thing they want in reality, but the first thing they claim.