Total Posts:133|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Izbo's Philosophy Clas: Agnostic vs atheist.

izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 8:09:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Since people on this board are too fuckin stupid to grasp this, I will do a class on this.

First we need a couple definitions-

gnostic- to have knowledge(in a god)
theism one who believes in a god
a- prefix in greek for not.
belief-1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another:

I think it is important to note that belief is an action. You are either actively partaking in this action of not. So if you are actively placing trust of confidence in the existence of god, then you believe in the existence of god. If you are not activeky placing trust or confidence in the existence of god, you are not believing in god. Since an atheist is one who does not believe in god that makes you an atheist.

Atheist vs theist is a true dichotomy in the same sense as rock and not a rock.

On the other hand a gnostic vs an agnostic would have knowledge about the existence of god or not have knowledge. It is possible to not know if a god exists but still believe or disbelieve.

If you are stupid enough to insist on calling yourself agnostic which are you?

Agnostic theist or agnostic atheist as the 4 choices are:

Agnostic theist
agnostic atheist
gnostic theist
agnostic theist.

Too many stupid agnostic conflate agnostic with weak atheism. A weak atheist is one who simply lacks the positive attribute of belief in god. Meaning they don't actively believe in a god, where as a strong atheist says there is no god. Retarded agnostics don't grasp this.

A couple simple questions for a stupid agnostic

Are you a theist? Yes or no

Do you place trust of confidence in the existence of god? yes or no

If you do not, then you ar not a a theist. Strange that "a" in front of atheist, simply means, not. So you are atheist. Sorry to burst your retarded little bubbles.

My further works on this subject: http://atheistbebil.blogspot.com...

I know more about this then you, so stfu and learn.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 8:30:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I actually agree.

I before considered myself agnostic, before I realized that that was just a namby-pamby way of beating round the bush. In reality I'm an agnostic ATHEIST.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:01:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 8:30:41 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I actually agree.

I before considered myself agnostic, before I realized that that was just a namby-pamby way of beating round the bush. In reality I'm an agnostic ATHEIST.

I saw Izbo's video on the agnostic/atheist issue, and kind of agreed, but there was no point in saying so because his rudeness and arrogance made me reconsider that I should probably hear an opposing case before listening to a word of what he says.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:27:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The true issue is simply semantics.

Izbo doesn't accept that English is a living language, and as such, word meanings can be different than they 'should be'.

In the strictest sense, the definition for atheist should be 'not a theist', but that's not how the word is used.

Groups that provide dictionaries look at the most common usages of words in written and spoken language. In a living language, the most-used meaning is the proper, or at least a proper, definition.

All major online dictionaries define atheist with a definition along the lines of

A person who disbelieves in God.

Rather than what 'should' be the proper meaning

A person who doesn't believe in God.

Disbelief and not believing are not the same. Not believing means you don't accept something as true. Disbelieving means you accept it as false.
Vote For Truth. Vote For Pie.
Truth-Pie 2012 (member FDIC)
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:31:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
dis-

Meaning reversal or removal.
http://en.wiktionary.org...-

http://dictionary.reference.com...-
dis- apart, away

Disbelief is seperation from believing, it is the same thing. The problem is you don't understand the English language. It is a true dichotomy that you either believe something or disbelieve something. Disbelief does not mean you know it isn't true. It is very simply the opposite of believe.

Sorry you are an utter moron.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:48:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So, Izbo10, why is knowledge not considered and faith is in the question?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:50:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:48:18 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
So, Izbo10, why is knowledge not considered and faith is in the question?

Its like asking what your favorite pet is and someone saying spagetti. It is not the topic you fuckin moron. RETARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't grasp that knowledge and belief are not the same thing stay out of the thread.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:51:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:50:17 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/26/2011 9:48:18 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
So, Izbo10, why is knowledge not considered and faith is in the question?

Its like asking what your favorite pet is and someone saying spagetti. It is not the topic you fuckin moron. RETARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't grasp that knowledge and belief are not the same thing stay out of the thread.

You will be missed if you are temporarily banned, Izbo10.
Your refusal too stop attacking strawmen or shouting, "RETARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is amusing......
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:52:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:31:34 AM, izbo10 wrote:
dis-

Meaning reversal or removal.
http://en.wiktionary.org...-

http://dictionary.reference.com...-
dis- apart, away


Disbelief is seperation from believing, it is the same thing. The problem is you don't understand the English language. It is a true dichotomy that you either believe something or disbelieve something. Disbelief does not mean you know it isn't true. It is very simply the opposite of believe.

Sorry you are an utter moron.

See, this is how Izbo thinks. He doesn't care what a word actually means, but what he thinks it should mean. In any living language meanings can change, and the most common meaning of a term is what is most commonly considered the proper meaning.
Vote For Truth. Vote For Pie.
Truth-Pie 2012 (member FDIC)
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:57:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:52:13 AM, TheTruthAnalyst wrote:
At 11/26/2011 9:31:34 AM, izbo10 wrote:
dis-

Meaning reversal or removal.
http://en.wiktionary.org...-

http://dictionary.reference.com...-
dis- apart, away


Disbelief is seperation from believing, it is the same thing. The problem is you don't understand the English language. It is a true dichotomy that you either believe something or disbelieve something. Disbelief does not mean you know it isn't true. It is very simply the opposite of believe.

Sorry you are an utter moron.

See, this is how Izbo thinks. He doesn't care what a word actually means, but what he thinks it should mean. In any living language meanings can change, and the most common meaning of a term is what is most commonly considered the proper meaning.

No that is you that doesnt understand meanings disbelief is simply not believing and believing is having trust or confidence which is an action and if you lack that positive trait you by definition don't believe or disbelieve. Stop with the stupidity. It really is ridiculous that you need me to explain basic definitions. Go ask a kindergarten class what it means if you don't believe something. They will teach you something.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:59:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
theist-the BELIEF in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation.

Note mig the word is belief, not knowledge.

How stupid is this board everyday it amazes me.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:59:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:59:14 AM, izbo10 wrote:
theist-the BELIEF in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation.

Note mig the word is belief, not knowledge.

How stupid is this board everyday it amazes me.

Is the knowledge inferred from belief, Izzy?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 10:00:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Lol. How are you going to teach a philosophy class when you don't know epistemology? Not all beliefs are active. There are such things as, say, dispositional beliefs.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 10:01:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://dictionary.reference.com...

http://www.learnersdictionary.com...

This one is about your age group.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 10:02:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:59:50 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 11/26/2011 9:59:14 AM, izbo10 wrote:
theist-the BELIEF in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation.

Note mig the word is belief, not knowledge.

How stupid is this board everyday it amazes me.

Is the knowledge inferred from belief, Izzy?

No, moron.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 10:03:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 10:00:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Lol. How are you going to teach a philosophy class when you don't know epistemology? Not all beliefs are active. There are such things as, say, dispositional beliefs.

Your mind is actively storing it you moron, please stop with the semantics.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 10:07:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 10:03:16 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:00:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Lol. How are you going to teach a philosophy class when you don't know epistemology? Not all beliefs are active. There are such things as, say, dispositional beliefs.

Your mind is actively storing it you moron, please stop with the semantics.

Lol. There's a reason belief is distinguished between dispositional and occurent.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 10:10:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 10:07:13 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:03:16 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:00:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Lol. How are you going to teach a philosophy class when you don't know epistemology? Not all beliefs are active. There are such things as, say, dispositional beliefs.

Your mind is actively storing it you moron, please stop with the semantics.

Lol. There's a reason belief is distinguished between dispositional and occurent.

Yes, you may want to look it up as you don't grasp that in order for your mind to store that is actively holding the belief.

http://www.reference.com...

http://psychology.wikia.com...

exactly as I said your mind is storing the belief which requires activity of your mind. You seem to think the activity must be conscious and it doesn't.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 10:15:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://scan.oxfordjournals.org...

This should help you understand popculture. It has some big words so ask mommy for help.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 8:55:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A pretty simple thought experiment shows that "non-theist" and "atheist" are not the same thing.

First of all, Izbo only presents half the etymology. Atheist derives from Greek - A + Theos. In Greek, the prefix A- can mean "lacking" or "against." So right off the bat, there is a semantic distinction to be made between one who lacks a belief in god and one who is against a belief in god.

Second, in colloquial English, there are positions like Ignostic and Apatheist. This indicates that there is certainly not the false dichotomy that Izbo presents where Theist and Atheist are the only options.

The case of Ignostic proves this to be the case - an Ignostic doesn't address the merits of belief, but first professes uncertainty for lack of a definition of god. But one cannot be ignostic with respect to a particular god. One can, however, be apatheistic with respect to a particular god, indicating that no matter what else, there is indeed a third position.

To recap: Izbo's argument impermissibly generalizes all subsets of "non-theist" and calls them "atheist."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2011 9:11:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 10:10:29 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:07:13 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:03:16 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:00:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Lol. How are you going to teach a philosophy class when you don't know epistemology? Not all beliefs are active. There are such things as, say, dispositional beliefs.

Your mind is actively storing it you moron, please stop with the semantics.

Lol. There's a reason belief is distinguished between dispositional and occurent.


Yes, you may want to look it up as you don't grasp that in order for your mind to store that is actively holding the belief.

http://www.reference.com...

http://psychology.wikia.com...

exactly as I said your mind is storing the belief which requires activity of your mind. You seem to think the activity must be conscious and it doesn't.

Lol! Notice your original post. "I think it is important to note that belief is an action. You are either actively partaking in this action of not. " ...yeah. What you said here implies ones is actively entertaining some propsition p in order for it to be a belief. If the "activity" here was supposed to encompass being "actively" store in your memory there would be no reason for philosophers to have divided belief into occurent and dispositional. The "activity" here is supposed to mean consciously entertaining an idea. But I suppose you already knew that. What with you attempting to teach philosophy and all that.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 8:43:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:11:52 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:10:29 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:07:13 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:03:16 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/26/2011 10:00:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Lol. How are you going to teach a philosophy class when you don't know epistemology? Not all beliefs are active. There are such things as, say, dispositional beliefs.

Your mind is actively storing it you moron, please stop with the semantics.

Lol. There's a reason belief is distinguished between dispositional and occurent.


Yes, you may want to look it up as you don't grasp that in order for your mind to store that is actively holding the belief.

http://www.reference.com...

http://psychology.wikia.com...

exactly as I said your mind is storing the belief which requires activity of your mind. You seem to think the activity must be conscious and it doesn't.

Lol! Notice your original post. "I think it is important to note that belief is an action. You are either actively partaking in this action of not. " ...yeah. What you said here implies ones is actively entertaining some propsition p in order for it to be a belief. If the "activity" here was supposed to encompass being "actively" store in your memory there would be no reason for philosophers to have divided belief into occurent and dispositional. The "activity" here is supposed to mean consciously entertaining an idea. But I suppose you already knew that. What with you attempting to teach philosophy and all that.

You truly are a fuckin moron. They are different types of actions. So hence they labeled them as such. Those being used currently and those being stored. If you want to understand it read about it don't just do a google search and not understand what you are talking about.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 9:02:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Too many stupid agnostic conflate agnostic with weak atheism. A weak atheist is one who simply lacks the positive attribute of belief in god. Meaning they don't actively believe in a god, where as a strong atheist says there is no god. Retarded agnostics don't grasp this.:

The reason most agnostics are agnostics is because of the following definition, something you nor your video touched on:

"a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and/or unknowable"

Meaning the very concept of God's (non)existance is not only unknown, but can never be known by its very definition. That's not to say that the existance of God and the non-existance of God are both equiprobable, only that neither can be empirically known.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 9:06:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 8:55:06 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
A pretty simple thought experiment shows that "non-theist" and "atheist" are not the same thing.

First of all, Izbo only presents half the etymology. Atheist derives from Greek - A + Theos. In Greek, the prefix A- can mean "lacking" or "against." So right off the bat, there is a semantic distinction to be made between one who lacks a belief in god and one who is against a belief in god.

Second, in colloquial English, there are positions like Ignostic and Apatheist. This indicates that there is certainly not the false dichotomy that Izbo presents where Theist and Atheist are the only options.

The case of Ignostic proves this to be the case - an Ignostic doesn't address the merits of belief, but first professes uncertainty for lack of a definition of god. But one cannot be ignostic with respect to a particular god. One can, however, be apatheistic with respect to a particular god, indicating that no matter what else, there is indeed a third position.

To recap: Izbo's argument impermissibly generalizes all subsets of "non-theist" and calls them "atheist.":

This post is made of cupcakes and win!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 10:23:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/27/2011 9:06:33 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 11/26/2011 8:55:06 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
A pretty simple thought experiment shows that "non-theist" and "atheist" are not the same thing.

First of all, Izbo only presents half the etymology. Atheist derives from Greek - A + Theos. In Greek, the prefix A- can mean "lacking" or "against." So right off the bat, there is a semantic distinction to be made between one who lacks a belief in god and one who is against a belief in god.

Second, in colloquial English, there are positions like Ignostic and Apatheist. This indicates that there is certainly not the false dichotomy that Izbo presents where Theist and Atheist are the only options.

The case of Ignostic proves this to be the case - an Ignostic doesn't address the merits of belief, but first professes uncertainty for lack of a definition of god. But one cannot be ignostic with respect to a particular god. One can, however, be apatheistic with respect to a particular god, indicating that no matter what else, there is indeed a third position.

To recap: Izbo's argument impermissibly generalizes all subsets of "non-theist" and calls them "atheist.":

This post is made of cupcakes and win!

IF you don't answer yes to the question do you believe in god? you are not a believer in god, that means you do not believe in god. Therefore you are an atheist.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 10:28:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/27/2011 10:23:06 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/27/2011 9:06:33 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 11/26/2011 8:55:06 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
A pretty simple thought experiment shows that "non-theist" and "atheist" are not the same thing.

First of all, Izbo only presents half the etymology. Atheist derives from Greek - A + Theos. In Greek, the prefix A- can mean "lacking" or "against." So right off the bat, there is a semantic distinction to be made between one who lacks a belief in god and one who is against a belief in god.

Second, in colloquial English, there are positions like Ignostic and Apatheist. This indicates that there is certainly not the false dichotomy that Izbo presents where Theist and Atheist are the only options.

The case of Ignostic proves this to be the case - an Ignostic doesn't address the merits of belief, but first professes uncertainty for lack of a definition of god. But one cannot be ignostic with respect to a particular god. One can, however, be apatheistic with respect to a particular god, indicating that no matter what else, there is indeed a third position.

To recap: Izbo's argument impermissibly generalizes all subsets of "non-theist" and calls them "atheist.":

This post is made of cupcakes and win!

IF you don't answer yes to the question do you believe in god? you are not a believer in god, that means you do not believe in god. Therefore you are an atheist.

atheism is not solely a disbelief in god. Atheism is a positive disbelief in God to the point that you declare definitively that HE DOES NOT EXIST. If you are not at the point where you can think he does not exist, then you are not atheist.

You are correct Izbo, in saying that not answering "yes" to the question of "do you believe in God" means that you are not a theist. BUT LIKEWISE, not answering "no" to the question "do you believe in God" means that you are not an atheist. Hence the agnostic position.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 10:34:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/27/2011 10:28:54 AM, 000ike wrote:

atheism is not solely a disbelief in god. Atheism is a positive disbelief in God to the point that you declare definitively that HE DOES NOT EXIST. If you are not at the point where you can think he does not exist, then you are not atheist.

You are correct Izbo, in saying that not answering "yes" to the question of "do you believe in God" means that you are not a theist. BUT LIKEWISE, not answering "no" to the question "do you believe in God" means that you are not an atheist. Hence the agnostic position.

I've mixed up terms here. Ignore that comment.

we need to understand the difference between:
1. Does God Exist?
2. Do you believe in God?

1. If you answer "no" to question one then you are atheist. If you say neither "no" nor "yes" you are agnostic. The answer here is for lack of knowledge, NOT LACK OF OPINION. Agnosticism is correct here.

2. If you answer "no" to question 2 you are atheist. If you answer neither "no" NOR "yes" then you are atheist. You are correct in this regard Izbo. One cannot be agnostic on a question evoking OPINION (not knowledge).
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 10:34:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/27/2011 10:28:54 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/27/2011 10:23:06 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/27/2011 9:06:33 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 11/26/2011 8:55:06 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
A pretty simple thought experiment shows that "non-theist" and "atheist" are not the same thing.

First of all, Izbo only presents half the etymology. Atheist derives from Greek - A + Theos. In Greek, the prefix A- can mean "lacking" or "against." So right off the bat, there is a semantic distinction to be made between one who lacks a belief in god and one who is against a belief in god.

Second, in colloquial English, there are positions like Ignostic and Apatheist. This indicates that there is certainly not the false dichotomy that Izbo presents where Theist and Atheist are the only options.

The case of Ignostic proves this to be the case - an Ignostic doesn't address the merits of belief, but first professes uncertainty for lack of a definition of god. But one cannot be ignostic with respect to a particular god. One can, however, be apatheistic with respect to a particular god, indicating that no matter what else, there is indeed a third position.

To recap: Izbo's argument impermissibly generalizes all subsets of "non-theist" and calls them "atheist.":

This post is made of cupcakes and win!

IF you don't answer yes to the question do you believe in god? you are not a believer in god, that means you do not believe in god. Therefore you are an atheist.

atheism is not solely a disbelief in god. Atheism is a positive disbelief in God to the point that you declare definitively that HE DOES NOT EXIST. If you are not at the point where you can think he does not exist, then you are not atheist.

You are correct Izbo, in saying that not answering "yes" to the question of "do you believe in God" means that you are not a theist. BUT LIKEWISE, not answering "no" to the question "do you believe in God" means that you are not an atheist. Hence the agnostic position.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, HOW MANY\ TIMES DO FUCKTARDS NEED TO HEAR THAT IS A STRAW MAN POSITION OF ATHEISM.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 10:37:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
wHY DON'T YOU FUCKTARDS ACTUALLY GO OUT AND FIND OUT WHAT AN ATHEIST IS PLEAS3!!!!

http://atheism.about.com...

http://atheism.about.com...

please for fucks sake educate yourselves, its not that hard.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2011 10:39:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/27/2011 10:37:47 AM, izbo10 wrote:
wHY DON'T YOU FUCKTARDS ACTUALLY GO OUT AND FIND OUT WHAT AN ATHEIST IS PLEAS3!!!!

http://atheism.about.com...


http://atheism.about.com...


please for fucks sake educate yourselves, its not that hard.

Did you read my second comment? Tell me what part of it doesn't make sense.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault