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What is the purpose of an everlasting hell?

GreatestIam
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11/29/2011 10:42:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

My premise is that God would not create anything that is purposeless.
If God's everlasting hell is not serving a purpose, God would not create it since scripture says that God created all things for his pleasure and for himself.

Punishment is usually given to change ideas, attitudes and actions of a sinner.
If punishment is given for any other reason, then it is being given without an altruistic purpose and would be given out of a sense of cruelty.

Is there an altruistic purpose for God creating hell?

If no good result is to be gained from everlasting punishment, is it just for God to give it?

To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple questions for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions is to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Regards
DL
inferno
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11/29/2011 10:47:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
To torment evil. You obviously are unaware of how much God hates sin.
He made us and he can do as he pleases. You however, have no say in what goes down about anything. It is all about personal choice. You choose to marry, eat, sleep, drink. buy, drive, associate, dress with who and however you wish to.
So because you have chosen to reject God, then He shall reject you.
Mr.Infidel
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11/29/2011 11:10:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If you go back to the Jewish view of hell, hell (in the Christian sense) does not exist. Hell is a place of "puragatory", if you will. The maximum time one can stay is about 12 months. However, there are exceptions to people who fight against G-d and the Jews (i.e., Adolf Hitler).
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OMGJustinBieber
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11/29/2011 11:59:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 11:10:50 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
If you go back to the Jewish view of hell, hell (in the Christian sense) does not exist. Hell is a place of "puragatory", if you will. The maximum time one can stay is about 12 months. However, there are exceptions to people who fight against G-d and the Jews (i.e., Adolf Hitler).

That's pretty interesting. Do you automatically go to heaven after those 12 months?
PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/29/2011 12:04:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 10:42:10 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?:

It's a religious scare tactic in the hopes of making you good and moral.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
jharry
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11/29/2011 1:01:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hell is for those that can not enter heaven due to their sin. But I don't think it is the actual action of sin, sin comes from within. And this is the problem.

Hell was created for the Angels who rebelled against God, it wasn't meant for human souls. It is for those that chose it.

Hell is the complete and total separation from God. Isn't that what atheists want? Not just in their beliefs or lack of but also in their lives. No prayer, no church, no influence of any kind. If that is what you want the there is a place especially designed for that purpose.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
drafterman
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11/29/2011 1:21:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 1:01:42 PM, jharry wrote:
Hell is for those that can not enter heaven due to their sin. But I don't think it is the actual action of sin, sin comes from within. And this is the problem.

I don't understand. What about sin would prevent anyone from entering Heaven?


Hell was created for the Angels who rebelled against God, it wasn't meant for human souls. It is for those that chose it.

Who chooses hell?


Hell is the complete and total separation from God. Isn't that what atheists want?

Ugh. Naturalistic fallacy.

1. My lack of belief in god has nothing to do with desire. I'm not convinced a god exists, ergo I don't believe that a god exists.
2. Depending on who you talk to, hell is much more than just separation.

Not just in their beliefs or lack of but also in their lives. No prayer, no church, no influence of any kind. If that is what you want the there is a place especially designed for that purpose.

So, let me get this straight. We have a God. A God that presumably wants people to believe in him. And this God has a choice. He can A) design a world that actually makes his existence evident to all, rather than a world that appears to have come about through natural, unguided means or B) just throw up his hands in the air and go "Fvck it, I'm too lazy for this sh1t" and instead just accept that some people won't believe in him and create a punishment zone for those people.

And this God apparently chose B, and I'm supposed to like this God? This is a God I'm supposed to accept as Lord and Savior and Worship and Love?

Sorry, the amount of head trauma necessary for me to accept that isn't worth it.
GreatestIam
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11/29/2011 2:04:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 10:47:28 AM, inferno wrote:
To torment evil. You obviously are unaware of how much God hates sin.
He made us and he can do as he pleases. You however, have no say in what goes down about anything. It is all about personal choice. You choose to marry, eat, sleep, drink. buy, drive, associate, dress with who and however you wish to.
So because you have chosen to reject God, then He shall reject you.

The question is not rejection. The question is whether or not he is doing it in a moral way.

Are you saying that he can do as he pleases whether it is moral or not?

IOW,. Should God not do the moral thing all the time and if he does what is not moral, is it a sin?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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11/29/2011 2:06:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 11:10:50 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
If you go back to the Jewish view of hell, hell (in the Christian sense) does not exist. Hell is a place of "puragatory", if you will. The maximum time one can stay is about 12 months. However, there are exceptions to people who fight against G-d and the Jews (i.e., Adolf Hitler).

Not in any way what scripture says but a better view.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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11/29/2011 2:07:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 11:41:07 AM, Kinesis wrote:
To fairly punish the 'infinite' crime of disbelieving in God. Absurd, I know.

Yes but if Gog gave full disclosure, the way a moral God would, there would not be anyone who would not believe.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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11/29/2011 2:11:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 1:01:42 PM, jharry wrote:
Hell is for those that can not enter heaven due to their sin. But I don't think it is the actual action of sin, sin comes from within. And this is the problem.

Hell was created for the Angels who rebelled against God, it wasn't meant for human souls. It is for those that chose it.

Hell is the complete and total separation from God. Isn't that what atheists want? Not just in their beliefs or lack of but also in their lives. No prayer, no church, no influence of any kind. If that is what you want the there is a place especially designed for that purpose.

Not being an atheist, I would not know.
If hell were just separation from God then well and good but it is not. It is God adding on eternal torture.
That makes it and him immoral.

Regards
DL
jharry
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11/29/2011 2:30:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 1:21:07 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 11/29/2011 1:01:42 PM, jharry wrote:
Hell is for those that can not enter heaven due to their sin. But I don't think it is the actual action of sin, sin comes from within. And this is the problem.

I don't understand. What about sin would prevent anyone from entering Heaven?

Sin is the opposite of God. It can not stand in His presence. There is no place for it in Heaven. I'm trying to think of as many ways to say something that is pretty simple.


Hell was created for the Angels who rebelled against God, it wasn't meant for human souls. It is for those that chose it.

Who chooses hell?

Every soul that ends up there.


Hell is the complete and total separation from God. Isn't that what atheists want?

Ugh. Naturalistic fallacy.

1. My lack of belief in god has nothing to do with desire. I'm not convinced a god exists, ergo I don't believe that a god exists.

I wan't talking about your beliefs.I should have said "most" because it is to easy for someone to say a lot of things. Would you like to see religious policies in government stop? Do you literally not think anything about group prayer at functions you may attend?

2. Depending on who you talk to, hell is much more than just separation.

I doubt many people think God is in Hell torturing people. The torment comes from the damned that are separated from God. The punishment is the separation alone.

Not just in their beliefs or lack of but also in their lives. No prayer, no church, no influence of any kind. If that is what you want the there is a place especially designed for that purpose.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/29/2011 2:43:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 2:30:35 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/29/2011 1:21:07 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 11/29/2011 1:01:42 PM, jharry wrote:
Hell is for those that can not enter heaven due to their sin. But I don't think it is the actual action of sin, sin comes from within. And this is the problem.

I don't understand. What about sin would prevent anyone from entering Heaven?

Sin is the opposite of God. It can not stand in His presence. There is no place for it in Heaven. I'm trying to think of as many ways to say something that is pretty simple.

But everyone sins, so how does anyone get into Heaven?



Hell was created for the Angels who rebelled against God, it wasn't meant for human souls. It is for those that chose it.

Who chooses hell?

Every soul that ends up there.

Ok. Well I choose not to believe in god AND to not go to hell. Now what happens?



Hell is the complete and total separation from God. Isn't that what atheists want?

Ugh. Naturalistic fallacy.

1. My lack of belief in god has nothing to do with desire. I'm not convinced a god exists, ergo I don't believe that a god exists.

I wan't talking about your beliefs.I should have said "most" because it is to easy for someone to say a lot of things. Would you like to see religious policies in government stop? Do you literally not think anything about group prayer at functions you may attend?

Separation from religion and separation from god are two different things.


2. Depending on who you talk to, hell is much more than just separation.

I doubt many people think God is in Hell torturing people. The torment comes from the damned that are separated from God. The punishment is the separation alone.

So no flames or gnashing of teeth?


Not just in their beliefs or lack of but also in their lives. No prayer, no church, no influence of any kind. If that is what you want the there is a place especially designed for that purpose.
jharry
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11/29/2011 2:50:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 2:11:33 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/29/2011 1:01:42 PM, jharry wrote:
Hell is for those that can not enter heaven due to their sin. But I don't think it is the actual action of sin, sin comes from within. And this is the problem.

Hell was created for the Angels who rebelled against God, it wasn't meant for human souls. It is for those that chose it.

Hell is the complete and total separation from God. Isn't that what atheists want? Not just in their beliefs or lack of but also in their lives. No prayer, no church, no influence of any kind. If that is what you want the there is a place especially designed for that purpose.

Not being an atheist, I would not know.
If hell were just separation from God then well and good but it is not. It is God adding on eternal torture.
That makes it and him immoral.

The torture comes from the ones there with you. Do you really think God is in Hell torturing people? Hell is where you have to go if you refuse Heaven. Hell is completely cut off from all good, which is God.

Have you ever been really down? not really down, I can't find the words to express it so I will give you my experiences so maybe you can understand what I'm talking about.

At one point in my life all I knew was pain. Both my pain and the pain I had no problem making others feel. My pain made me want you to feel my pain too. I was pissed at the world and all that was in it. I surrounded myself with people that were just like me and lived a lifestyle of pain and suffering. I had no problem stealing. Selling illegal substances and items to anyone with the cash. If you stole from me I would make you hurt. If you talked down to me I would make you hurt. If you looked at me wrong I had problem making you hurt.

Bottom line my entire world was pain. I realize now I was away from God and His presence. The closer I draw to Him the less pain I have to endure. Have you ever read that He is our rest? That is so true. I can't find the words to explain that. It's not all peaches and cream but it is better then razor blades and barbed wire. At that time the only thing that kept it from being total Hell is hope and that Hope is Jesus. In Hell there is no Hope, no Faith, no Love. These are the only things that make this world and this life bearable.

The only punishment is the separation. And that is chosen so I have a hard time calling it punishment. We are eternal souls. We were created to be eternally with God. But the draw back to that is we are eternal, in Heaven or Hell.

It's your decision, not mine.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/29/2011 2:58:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 2:43:05 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 11/29/2011 2:30:35 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/29/2011 1:21:07 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 11/29/2011 1:01:42 PM, jharry wrote:
Hell is for those that can not enter heaven due to their sin. But I don't think it is the actual action of sin, sin comes from within. And this is the problem.

I don't understand. What about sin would prevent anyone from entering Heaven?

Sin is the opposite of God. It can not stand in His presence. There is no place for it in Heaven. I'm trying to think of as many ways to say something that is pretty simple.

But everyone sins, so how does anyone get into Heaven?

By the Mercy and Grace of God.



Hell was created for the Angels who rebelled against God, it wasn't meant for human souls. It is for those that chose it.

Who chooses hell?

Every soul that ends up there.

Ok. Well I choose not to believe in god AND to not go to hell. Now what happens?

If you choose deny Him then He has no choice but to deny you. It's pretty simple.



Hell is the complete and total separation from God. Isn't that what atheists want?

Ugh. Naturalistic fallacy.

1. My lack of belief in god has nothing to do with desire. I'm not convinced a god exists, ergo I don't believe that a god exists.

I wan't talking about your beliefs.I should have said "most" because it is to easy for someone to say a lot of things. Would you like to see religious policies in government stop? Do you literally not think anything about group prayer at functions you may attend?

Separation from religion and separation from god are two different things.

And there will be neither in Hell. Something you may not want in your life and something you don't believe exists.


2. Depending on who you talk to, hell is much more than just separation.

I doubt many people think God is in Hell torturing people. The torment comes from the damned that are separated from God. The punishment is the separation alone.

So no flames or gnashing of teeth?

Oh yeah,the teeth will be gnashing. But it will be from the pain of being separated from God. And Satan will be there too. He will want you to feel his pain too. And there you will be surrendered to him.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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11/29/2011 2:58:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's spiritual terrorism.

I'll give you freewill to do whatever you want, but if you don't do exactly as I say then you will writhe in agony for all eternity. Hmmm, that's some freewill!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
jharry
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11/29/2011 3:10:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 2:58:19 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
It's spiritual terrorism.

I'll give you freewill to do whatever you want, but if you don't do exactly as I say then you will writhe in agony for all eternity. Hmmm, that's some freewill!

It's more like "live this way and I will live with you" "if you don't then I can not".
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/29/2011 3:25:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yes but if Gog gave full disclosure, the way a moral God would, there would not be anyone who would not believe.

A Christian would say that knowledge of God's existence is not enough to guarantee salvation. You need to be in a personal relationship with God for that.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/29/2011 3:26:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 3:10:04 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/29/2011 2:58:19 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
It's spiritual terrorism.

I'll give you freewill to do whatever you want, but if you don't do exactly as I say then you will writhe in agony for all eternity. Hmmm, that's some freewill!

It's more like "live this way and I will live with you" "if you don't then I can not".

It's no where near that fluffy. The bible makes quite clear that hell is a place of terrible suffering and torture.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/29/2011 4:06:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 2:58:11 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/29/2011 2:43:05 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 11/29/2011 2:30:35 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/29/2011 1:21:07 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 11/29/2011 1:01:42 PM, jharry wrote:
Hell is for those that can not enter heaven due to their sin. But I don't think it is the actual action of sin, sin comes from within. And this is the problem.

I don't understand. What about sin would prevent anyone from entering Heaven?

Sin is the opposite of God. It can not stand in His presence. There is no place for it in Heaven. I'm trying to think of as many ways to say something that is pretty simple.

But everyone sins, so how does anyone get into Heaven?

By the Mercy and Grace of God.

How does that work and why doesn't that apply to me?




Hell was created for the Angels who rebelled against God, it wasn't meant for human souls. It is for those that chose it.

Who chooses hell?

Every soul that ends up there.

Ok. Well I choose not to believe in god AND to not go to hell. Now what happens?

If you choose deny Him then He has no choice but to deny you. It's pretty simple.

Why doesn't he have a choice?




Hell is the complete and total separation from God. Isn't that what atheists want?

Ugh. Naturalistic fallacy.

1. My lack of belief in god has nothing to do with desire. I'm not convinced a god exists, ergo I don't believe that a god exists.

I wan't talking about your beliefs.I should have said "most" because it is to easy for someone to say a lot of things. Would you like to see religious policies in government stop? Do you literally not think anything about group prayer at functions you may attend?

Separation from religion and separation from god are two different things.

And there will be neither in Hell. Something you may not want in your life and something you don't believe exists.


2. Depending on who you talk to, hell is much more than just separation.

I doubt many people think God is in Hell torturing people. The torment comes from the damned that are separated from God. The punishment is the separation alone.

So no flames or gnashing of teeth?

Oh yeah,the teeth will be gnashing. But it will be from the pain of being separated from God. And Satan will be there too. He will want you to feel his pain too. And there you will be surrendered to him.
gr33k_fr33k5
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11/29/2011 4:17:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
God created a perfect world in which everyone would believe in him (the post fall world God "walked" with man. . . kinda hard to not believe when you have daily chats with the dude). The reason God punishes us in Hell is not because we "didn't choose him." It is because there is no place in Heaven for us. God has reserved his wrath for those in Hell namely satan. When you don't choose to follow Christ as you savior then you choose to follow satan as your savior. There is no "neutral" . . .

Back to there being no place for us. We get this life to either choose Jesus or not to. After that we must live with our choice. Heaven is reserved for the perfect. You HAVE to be completely perfect to get in. None of us are perfect therefore none of us are getting in. Unless of course we trust in Jesus to take our place on judgement day. Other than that we stand up for ourselves and are all found imperfect or sinful. Therefore God sends us to the only place possible.

Regarding the morality of God's eternal punishment. It is pointless to ask whether it is moral or not since God isn't bound by laws of morality, rather he is the living embodiment of them. He sets the rules for moral/immoral, our view of right and wrong is completely skewed by sin.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/29/2011 4:23:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 3:10:04 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/29/2011 2:58:19 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
It's spiritual terrorism.

I'll give you freewill to do whatever you want, but if you don't do exactly as I say then you will writhe in agony for all eternity. Hmmm, that's some freewill!

It's more like "live this way and I will live with you" "if you don't then I can not".:

Okay... that's the same thing, only worded differently. The point is, is freewill really free if you are limited by extremely narrow "choices."
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/29/2011 4:32:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 4:17:14 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
God created a perfect world in which everyone would believe in him (the post fall world God "walked" with man. . . kinda hard to not believe when you have daily chats with the dude).:

"Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin." -- Deuteronomy 24:16

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself." -- Ezekiel 18:20

And yet we all pay for the sins of our very first earthly father (and mother). So many bible contradictions to contend with.

The reason God punishes us in Hell is not because we "didn't choose him.":

And the reason you'll burn in hell is because you didn't choose Allah, you apostate sinner.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
JustCallMeTarzan
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11/29/2011 5:01:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 10:42:10 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

It's pretty simple actually... without eternal life and eternal punishment, there is no possible way to make religious asceticism palatable. The concepts are both made up so that people have a plausible reason to accept religion.
tyler90az
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11/29/2011 5:10:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The beautiful thing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is we don't believe in eternal damnation. God is a merciful God and lets everyone have a chance to repent, God especially has mercy on those who have not heard the truth. Isn't that expected of an all loving God? Why would he create us and not make a way back to him?
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
jharry
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11/29/2011 6:22:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"How does that work and why doesn't that apply to me?"-drafterman

God forgives. He is Merciful. When you confess and repent He is Holy to cleanse you and make you whole.

Do you confess and repent?

"Why doesn't he have a choice."-drafterman

He will be asked if you are His, He cannot lie so He will say no. You will then be judged by what you have done or have left undone.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
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11/29/2011 6:36:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 4:23:27 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 11/29/2011 3:10:04 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/29/2011 2:58:19 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
It's spiritual terrorism.

I'll give you freewill to do whatever you want, but if you don't do exactly as I say then you will writhe in agony for all eternity. Hmmm, that's some freewill!

It's more like "live this way and I will live with you" "if you don't then I can not".:

Okay... that's the same thing, only worded differently. The point is, is freewill really
free if you are limited by extremely narrow "choices."

It's the difference in child raising techniques. I could be a dictator or a loving father. My end goal is the same, but one can be seen as negative. Of course the end result is where we want it go but different methods.

You just choose to paint it in a narrow light.

The longer I am a daddy the more I see God thru them.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
GreatestIam
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11/30/2011 4:49:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 3:25:45 PM, Kinesis wrote:
Yes but if Gog gave full disclosure, the way a moral God would, there would not be anyone who would not believe.

A Christian would say that knowledge of God's existence is not enough to guarantee salvation. You need to be in a personal relationship with God for that.

Yes they would yet who in hell would want a personal relationship or closeness with a genocidal maniac.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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11/30/2011 5:00:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 4:17:14 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
God created a perfect world in which everyone would believe in him (the post fall world God "walked" with man. . . kinda hard to not believe when you have daily chats with the dude). The reason God punishes us in Hell is not because we "didn't choose him." It is because there is no place in Heaven for us. God has reserved his wrath for those in Hell namely satan. When you don't choose to follow Christ as you savior then you choose to follow satan as your savior. There is no "neutral" . . .

Back to there being no place for us. We get this life to either choose Jesus or not to. After that we must live with our choice. Heaven is reserved for the perfect. You HAVE to be completely perfect to get in. None of us are perfect therefore none of us are getting in. Unless of course we trust in Jesus to take our place on judgement day. Other than that we stand up for ourselves and are all found imperfect or sinful. Therefore God sends us to the only place possible.

Regarding the morality of God's eternal punishment. It is pointless to ask whether it is moral or not since God isn't bound by laws of morality, rather he is the living embodiment of them. He sets the rules for moral/immoral, our view of right and wrong is completely skewed by sin.

Your morals have sure been skewed by sin pal if you do not question the morality of your actions.

I see. So all we need do is not step up to our own responsibilities and make sure we profit from the murder of an innocent man while going against scriptures.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

IOW. We must do the immoral thing to get into heaven.
We must be as immoral as your genocidal God.
No thanks.

Regards
DL

I see. So all we need do is not step up to our own responsibilities and make sure we profit from the murder of an innocent man while going against scriptures.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
IOW. We must do the immoral thing to get into heaven.
We must be as immoral as your genocidal God.
No thanks.

Regards
DL