Total Posts:20|Showing Posts:1-20
Jump to topic:

Merry Xmas Everyone!

Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 12:04:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
While discussing a store that recently posted a "Merry Xmas" sign, my mother mentioned that she loathes the term. She finds it disrespectful to Christ and Christians, alike. She's also uncomfortable with the social implications of secularizing what she considers a religious holiday.

What do you think of this practice? Is it wrong to alter the name, and in some ways the meaning, of what many consider a religious holiday? Do you believe individuals or businesses are taking a stand when they choose one wording over the other? Should they?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
Homo_Sacer
Posts: 63
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 12:20:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 12:04:28 AM, Maikuru wrote:
While discussing a store that recently posted a "Merry Xmas" sign, my mother mentioned that she loathes the term. She finds it disrespectful to Christ and Christians, alike. She's also uncomfortable with the social implications of secularizing what she considers a religious holiday.

What do you think of this practice? Is it wrong to alter the name, and in some ways the meaning, of what many consider a religious holiday? Do you believe individuals or businesses are taking a stand when they choose one wording over the other? Should they?

This is an interesting question. I think, to answer it, we ought to consider the converse: would we be comfortable living in a world in which non-religious individuals are, in essence, prohibited from representing and celebrating a holiday as befits their values? I think most would be hesitant to will such a world into existence, which suggests that we should not subscribe to a cultural norm which allows a religion to monopolize the meaning ascribed to particular holidays. Should I prefer to celebrate Christmas as "Winterfest", a secular holiday dedicated to family togetherness and goodwill (as realized through mutual exchange of gifts and a luxurious dinner), there doesn't seem to be a clear problem with dismissing the religious connotations and traditions attached to that day.

Further, suppose that, rather than offering an alternative to religious connotations, one's representation of a holiday is merely an alternative to a different secular interpretation. In such a case, we would almost certainly say, "To each his own." We might conclude that there is some special value being accorded to religious representations not accorded to secular representations; however, I think this distinction is made purely on the basis of a cultural tradition of glorifying religion by enforcing, by the mechanism of social normativity, unchallenged respect for religious beliefs, regardless of whether we agree with them. If we accept the notion that two secular interpretations of a holiday may coexist, it doesn't seem as though we can reject the coexistence of secular and religious interpretations while remaining consistent.

There is also, if I recall, a historical account of Christmas which claims that its significance actually originates with some Roman pagan festival, and was simply claimed as a Christian holiday by the Catholic Church to ease the Roman population into a new Catholic regime (in which the Church claimed extensive political and religious power). If my memory is correct, then the same argument could be made that the Church, and, by association, all individuals celebrating Christmas as a Christian holiday, are disrespecting, if altogether unintentionally, the pagan beliefs out of which the holiday initially emerged.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 12:55:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 12:04:28 AM, Maikuru wrote:
While discussing a store that recently posted a "Merry Xmas" sign, my mother mentioned that she loathes the term. She finds it disrespectful to Christ and Christians, alike. She's also uncomfortable with the social implications of secularizing what she considers a religious holiday.

What do you think of this practice? Is it wrong to alter the name, and in some ways the meaning, of what many consider a religious holiday? Do you believe individuals or businesses are taking a stand when they choose one wording over the other? Should they?

That's not a real big problem where I live. If a store didn't have Merry Christmas on display they would go out of business. They put up a huge sign in the middle of town that has MERRY CHRISTMAS in huge red letters written on it. There is a nativity scene out in front of Town Hall.

GOD I love where I live. If your not at the Friday night football game you can hear em praying over the loud speaker. My kids pray in school everyday. They have a daily prayer at the flag pole, at school for parents and faculty.

When you drop a dollar in the salvation army bucket the ladies says "God Bless You" (happened tonight).

Did I mention I LOVE this town?

XMas is just short for Christmas, which came from Christ Mass. It is a religious holiday. But if the heathens want to play pretend and have a winter fest I say let em have it. I'm still gonna tell people I meet Merry Christmas.

Did I tell y'all I love my town?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 1:30:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Christmas is a Christian holiday? I'm sooooo confused... I thought it was the pagan feast of the Winter solstice where we amalgamate Egyptian, Byzantine, Zoroastrian, and other contemporary mythologies, plunk a bit of Christianity in as well, just to keep things balanced, and give ourselves over to rampant commercialism??

You're telling me this is a religious holiday? On what grounds?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 5:46:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If I may offer the most basic rebuttal, please, you can't own words (except in advertising and slogans). If the rest of mankind wants Christmas to mean Santa Clause rather than Jesus, you're just going to have to find a new term. :p
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
lotus_flower
Posts: 454
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 6:55:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 12:04:28 AM, Maikuru wrote:
While discussing a store that recently posted a "Merry Xmas" sign, my mother mentioned that she loathes the term. She finds it disrespectful to Christ and Christians, alike. She's also uncomfortable with the social implications of secularizing what she considers a religious holiday.

What do you think of this practice? Is it wrong to alter the name, and in some ways the meaning, of what many consider a religious holiday? Do you believe individuals or businesses are taking a stand when they choose one wording over the other? Should they?

If people would take the time to learn about their faith, then they would know that the "X" comes from the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of the Greek word Khristós, translated as Christ. (The Greek doesn't come out right, so my spelling with a K is just to elaborate the way the word is pronounced.)
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
- Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
*******************************************************
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 6:56:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 1:30:47 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
Christmas is a Christian holiday? I'm sooooo confused... I thought it was the pagan feast of the Winter solstice where we amalgamate Egyptian, Byzantine, Zoroastrian, and other contemporary mythologies, plunk a bit of Christianity in as well, just to keep things balanced, and give ourselves over to rampant commercialism??

You're telling me this is a religious holiday? On what grounds?

LOL yes, Christmas is a christian holy day. Your construct that prior to Christianity some cultures celebrated the seasonal changes is irrelevant to the theology of the construct. However, if the earth's orbit is still a mystery to you, feel free to pray, to the gods of the firmament, for the return of heat.
Homo_Sacer
Posts: 63
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 8:51:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think a couple of people are leaving unaddressed the heart of the question. Though it may be presumptuous to call Christmas a "religious holiday", or X-Mas a "secularization", what if we simply supposed that these things were both true? The question is about both the permissibility and the implications of the secularization (and therefore, the meaning-changing) of acknowledged religious holidays. I think this is what we ought to be discussing, rather than whether X-Mas is a secularization, or whether Christmas is a Christian holiday (though I do think, obviously, that the historical line can be taken to make an argument about consistency in the respect for religious tradition).
tyler90az
Posts: 971
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 9:01:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
More then likely Jesus was borne in the spring; we just celebrate his birth on the 25th as tradition. Similar to the reason the Sabbath is on Sunday. God is an omniscient God, so in reality it doesn't matter what day we celebrate CHRISTmas or the Sabbath, God knows our intent and whats in our heart. We will receive blessings from him if we celebrate each day with our hearts and minds toward him.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 9:08:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 12:04:28 AM, Maikuru wrote:
While discussing a store that recently posted a "Merry Xmas" sign, my mother mentioned that she loathes the term. She finds it disrespectful to Christ and Christians, alike. She's also uncomfortable with the social implications of secularizing what she considers a religious holiday.:

That's funny, considering she has it backwards. The original day of December 25th was always a pagan holiday. When Europe began to become more Christian, the Roman Catholic Church simply commandeered the day and said Jesus was born that day. Of course, if you read the gospels as being historically accurate, and account for the disparity between the Julian calendar and the Hebrew one which they used in biblical times, Jesus could not have been born in December, let alone late December.

Tell her to brush up on history... and to go make us a sammich!

What do you think of this practice? Is it wrong to alter the name, and in some ways the meaning, of what many consider a religious holiday? Do you believe individuals or businesses are taking a stand when they choose one wording over the other? Should they?:

I think your mother is overly sensitive, that's what I think.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 9:28:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 12:04:28 AM, Maikuru wrote:
While discussing a store that recently posted a "Merry Xmas" sign, my mother mentioned that she loathes the term. She finds it disrespectful to Christ and Christians, alike. She's also uncomfortable with the social implications of secularizing what she considers a religious holiday.

What do you think of this practice? Is it wrong to alter the name, and in some ways the meaning, of what many consider a religious holiday? Do you believe individuals or businesses are taking a stand when they choose one wording over the other? Should they?

If it was wrong to co-opt a religious holiday for one's own purposes, we wouldn't call it Christmas to begin with, we'd call it Saturnalia.

So... yeah.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 9:29:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 9:01:04 AM, tyler90az wrote:
More then likely Jesus was borne in the spring; we just celebrate his birth on the 25th as tradition.

You celebrate his birth on the 25th of Spring? Interesting.

Similar to the reason the Sabbath is on Sunday. God is an omniscient God, so in reality it doesn't matter what day we celebrate CHRISTmas or the Sabbath, God knows our intent and whats in our heart. We will receive blessings from him if we celebrate each day with our hearts and minds toward him.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 10:38:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
You celebrate his birth on the 25th of Spring? Interesting.

No, we celebrate on Dec 25th, but some me included think he was born in April. It is NOT The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint official doctrine, purely speculation.

Jeffrey R. Chadwick
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has taken no official position on the exact date of Christ's birth. In his 1915 classic Jesus the Christ, Elder James E. Talmage maintained that Jesus Christ was born on April 6 in the year 1 BC. Talmage was apparently the first LDS writer to propose this particular date. Nearly a century has passed since his book appeared, and in that time it has become practically axiomatic among Latter-day Saints that Jesus was born on April 6 in that year. Two other Apostles, President J. Reuben Clark and Elder Bruce R. McConkie, published major studies on the life and ministry of Jesus Christ and proposed that Jesus was born in late 5 BC or early 4 BC. In this article, Jeffrey R. Chadwick, Jerusalem Center Professor of Archaeology and Near Eastern Studies, draws upon many sources—scriptural, historical, archeological, and astronomical—to shed light on the probable date of the Savior's birth. Using the known date of Herod the Great's death, information from the Book of Mormon about the length of Jesus's life, technical details about the Jewish lunar-solar calendar, the timing of the Annunciation to Mary, and other historical data, Chadwick narrows the window of time in which the Savior would have been born to December of 5 BC. The author is careful to deal with statements made by latter-day prophets supporting the April 6, 1 BC, date first proposed by Elder Talmage. Chadwick is able to show that these statements always occur in talks given about other topics (not expressly about the date of Christ's birth) and probably rely on Elder Talmage's assumptions. But a careful look at Doctrine and Covenants 20:1, upon which Talmage's proposal is based, shows that this verse was not a revelation by the Lord about his birth date. In fact, the verse is likely prefatory material dictated by Joseph Smith and recorded by his scribe with the express purpose of establishing the date of the Church's organization rather than the date of the Savior's birth.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 8:10:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 12:04:28 AM, Maikuru wrote:
While discussing a store that recently posted a "Merry Xmas" sign, my mother mentioned that she loathes the term. She finds it disrespectful to Christ and Christians, alike. She's also uncomfortable with the social implications of secularizing what she considers a religious holiday.

What do you think of this practice? Is it wrong to alter the name, and in some ways the meaning, of what many consider a religious holiday? Do you believe individuals or businesses are taking a stand when they choose one wording over the other? Should they?

1. This practice is retarded
2. hell yea
3.I don't think they are
4. Hell yea

Merry CHRISTmas everyone

merry Χριστοςmas
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 8:15:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 6:55:21 AM, lotus_flower wrote:
At 11/30/2011 12:04:28 AM, Maikuru wrote:
While discussing a store that recently posted a "Merry Xmas" sign, my mother mentioned that she loathes the term. She finds it disrespectful to Christ and Christians, alike. She's also uncomfortable with the social implications of secularizing what she considers a religious holiday.

What do you think of this practice? Is it wrong to alter the name, and in some ways the meaning, of what many consider a religious holiday? Do you believe individuals or businesses are taking a stand when they choose one wording over the other? Should they?

If people would take the time to learn about their faith, then they would know that the "X" comes from the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of the Greek word Khristós, translated as Christ. (The Greek doesn't come out right, so my spelling with a K is just to elaborate the way the word is pronounced.)

It comes from the christian symbol of the chi and the roe, the first 2 letters of christ. It turned into a secular word though.
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2011 8:54:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 1:30:47 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
Christmas is a Christian holiday? I'm sooooo confused... I thought it was the pagan feast of the Winter solstice where we amalgamate Egyptian, Byzantine, Zoroastrian, and other contemporary mythologies, plunk a bit of Christianity in as well, just to keep things balanced, and give ourselves over to rampant commercialism??

You're telling me this is a religious holiday? On what grounds?

Sigged
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/2/2011 12:28:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Christmas is popular in Japan, even though the population is only a few percent Christian. There are Christmas trees all over the place, only there they call them Christmas Trees rather than Holiday Trees as commonly required here. Christmas is a romantic celebratory holiday in Japan. Their religious holiday is New Year's.

It doesn't bother me that some people think Christmas is a religious holiday and others do not. It shouldn't bother anyone. It's a good holiday.

Merry Christmas.
Jon1
Posts: 314
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/3/2011 11:45:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/2/2011 12:28:29 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Christmas is popular in Japan, even though the population is only a few percent Christian. There are Christmas trees all over the place, only there they call them Christmas Trees rather than Holiday Trees as commonly required here. Christmas is a romantic celebratory holiday in Japan. Their religious holiday is New Year's.

It doesn't bother me that some people think Christmas is a religious holiday and others do not. It shouldn't bother anyone. It's a good holiday.

Merry Christmas.

Ha, Japanese are actually better at celebrating Christmas than Americans. Though, romantic?

Merry Christmas, btw.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/3/2011 11:46:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It doesn't bother me that some people think Christmas is a religious holiday and others do not. It shouldn't bother anyone. It's a good holiday.:

THIS ^
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)