Total Posts:5|Showing Posts:1-5
Jump to topic:

Pascal's Wager

BennyW
Posts: 698
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/3/2011 10:59:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I want to discuss pascals wager. I will admit there are definitely major flaws in it but let us break it down.
If you believe in God and there is no God than nothing happens, nothing lost nothing gained.
If don't believe in God and there is no God then again nothing lost nothing gained.
If you do believe in God (for the Wager to work the Christian) God, then you get to heaven which is the ultimate gain.
If you do not believe in God and there is a God then you go to hell the worst thing that could happen.
Now the biggest hole in the wager is that it doesn't specify which God but is generally assumed to be the Christian god. Let's assume you believe in a god other than the Christian God. Then you would end up in the same category as the Atheist if the Christian God is true.
However, if some other religion is true other than Christianity and you believe in the Christian God what is the consequence? Christianity is the only religion that I can think of other than possibly Islam where there is a concept of hell as eternal punishment. If the other religion does have the concept of hell it is reserved for the worst of the worst and the average person has nothing to worry about. All this in mind it greatly improves the odds in favor of Christianity. However a belief based on odds is still not a proper reason.
What do you guys think?
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
MixedVegetablez
Posts: 1
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2011 5:18:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Odds with no scientific or mathmatical evidence to support them and are outside the boundaries of human understanding are technically not 'odds' at all. Essentially what Pascal is attempting to put forth is a concept in which we have no way of knowing the truth yet for some reason obligated to pick. Say for instance you had $20 which you could use on a casino game which we had no way of knowing existed, you cannot spend the money on it because it doesn't exist in a physical form. If I believe it exists i may be able to put money in it, if i don't believe it exists therefore don't bother pursuing the existance of it, i will never be able to put money in it.
In my opinion faith should not be decided on odds, it is something personal that each individual has the opportunity to either look over the evidence and decide against, or bi-pass conventional evidence with absolute faith, conviction and belief that they are right. Both are plausible beliefs unless proven otherwise.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2011 5:11:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I hate Pascal's Wager.
First of all, it assumes I can choose to believe, which I clearly can't.
Second of all, it proposes that God is so fickle that belief is the only variable in deciding whether someone goes to Heaven or Hell, essentially making him a cosmic dictator.
Third, there are thousands of Gods and don't specify one or the other. What about if Zeus is the real God?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2011 6:41:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, fourth, it's only convincing for the atheist if you first convince them that God in fact *could* exist as described, AND on top of that - he rewards insincere belief.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2011 12:19:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/3/2011 10:59:05 PM, BennyW wrote:
I want to discuss pascals wager. I will admit there are definitely major flaws in it but let us break it down.
If you believe in God and there is no God than nothing happens, nothing lost nothing gained.
If don't believe in God and there is no God then again nothing lost nothing gained.
If you do believe in God (for the Wager to work the Christian) God, then you get to heaven which is the ultimate gain.
If you do not believe in God and there is a God then you go to hell the worst thing that could happen.
Now the biggest hole in the wager is that it doesn't specify which God but is generally assumed to be the Christian god. Let's assume you believe in a god other than the Christian God. Then you would end up in the same category as the Atheist if the Christian God is true.
However, if some other religion is true other than Christianity and you believe in the Christian God what is the consequence? Christianity is the only religion that I can think of other than possibly Islam where there is a concept of hell as eternal punishment. If the other religion does have the concept of hell it is reserved for the worst of the worst and the average person has nothing to worry about. All this in mind it greatly improves the odds in favor of Christianity. However a belief based on odds is still not a proper reason.
What do you guys think?

I don't think you've enumerated all the possibilities. If I'm going to wager. I want to know all of my options.

Please enumerate all possible god-concepts and the reward/punishment for believing/not believing in each of them.

Ready, go!