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Are we more merciful than God?

phantom
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12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

Having him executed would certainly be just enough. Sending him to prison might be argued as too lenient. Torturing him would by most people be thought of as the wrong decision. Would God have him tortured? Or at least let him be tortured? If you believe in hell than yes. Not only would God have him tortured, He would have him tortured for all eternity. Even after the man would have most certainly have repented and regretted his actions! Doesn't this sound brutally wrong and twisted?

All the time I hear Christians express sorrow at the tribulation of others. Horrible fates suffered by non-Christians on earth they deem as ghastly, and appalling. They don't stop to think of the incredibly worse fate that awaits them after they are dead. Why don't they accept the unfortunate happenings of others to be Gods 'just' punishment. Why don't they question Gods judgement on sinners in the afterlife if they think less things that happen here on earth are so horrible? If you accept that a poverty stricken old man in China deserves the flames of hell, why would you quail at peoples misery here on earth? Do Christians who hold to the doctrine of hell advocate torture? How could it be otherwise?

Take a look at these people http://3.bp.blogspot.com... Likely none of them have really heard about Christ. Unless you have a sick mind certainly you can't advocate their punishment for things that aren't their fault. It was their fate to live a life of poverty without any knowledge of the Christian God. But God deems them unworthy of forgiveness, to be punished forever? To live a horrible life on earth when God could have delivered them, then to be thrown into the eternal fire afterwards? If this is the Christian God I used to so easily trust in, than I can no longer believe in Him.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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12/8/2011 11:22:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

Having him executed would certainly be just enough. Sending him to prison might be argued as too lenient. Torturing him would by most people be thought of as the wrong decision. Would God have him tortured? Or at least let him be tortured? If you believe in hell than yes. Not only would God have him tortured, He would have him tortured for all eternity. Even after the man would have most certainly have repented and regretted his actions! Doesn't this sound brutally wrong and twisted?

All the time I hear Christians express sorrow at the tribulation of others. Horrible fates suffered by non-Christians on earth they deem as ghastly, and appalling. They don't stop to think of the incredibly worse fate that awaits them after they are dead. Why don't they accept the unfortunate happenings of others to be Gods 'just' punishment. Why don't they question Gods judgement on sinners in the afterlife if they think less things that happen here on earth are so horrible? If you accept that a poverty stricken old man in China deserves the flames of hell, why would you quail at peoples misery here on earth? Do Christians who hold to the doctrine of hell advocate torture? How could it be otherwise?

Take a look at these people http://3.bp.blogspot.com... Likely none of them have really heard about Christ. Unless you have a sick mind certainly you can't advocate their punishment for things that aren't their fault. It was their fate to live a life of poverty without any knowledge of the Christian God. But God deems them unworthy of forgiveness, to be punished forever? To live a horrible life on earth when God could have delivered them, then to be thrown into the eternal fire afterwards? If this is the Christian God I used to so easily trust in, than I can no longer believe in Him.

This is partly why even a Pope said there is a probability no one is in Hell.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/8/2011 12:16:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

What are my limitations?


Having him executed would certainly be just enough. Sending him to prison might be argued as too lenient. Torturing him would by most people be thought of as the wrong decision. Would God have him tortured? Or at least let him be tortured? If you believe in hell than yes. Not only would God have him tortured, He would have him tortured for all eternity. Even after the man would have most certainly have repented and regretted his actions! Doesn't this sound brutally wrong and twisted?

All the time I hear Christians express sorrow at the tribulation of others. Horrible fates suffered by non-Christians on earth they deem as ghastly, and appalling. They don't stop to think of the incredibly worse fate that awaits them after they are dead. Why don't they accept the unfortunate happenings of others to be Gods 'just' punishment. Why don't they question Gods judgement on sinners in the afterlife if they think less things that happen here on earth are so horrible? If you accept that a poverty stricken old man in China deserves the flames of hell, why would you quail at peoples misery here on earth? Do Christians who hold to the doctrine of hell advocate torture? How could it be otherwise?

Take a look at these people http://3.bp.blogspot.com... Likely none of them have really heard about Christ. Unless you have a sick mind certainly you can't advocate their punishment for things that aren't their fault. It was their fate to live a life of poverty without any knowledge of the Christian God. But God deems them unworthy of forgiveness, to be punished forever? To live a horrible life on earth when God could have delivered them, then to be thrown into the eternal fire afterwards? If this is the Christian God I used to so easily trust in, than I can no longer believe in Him.
caveat
Posts: 2,137
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12/8/2011 1:04:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

Having him executed would certainly be just enough. Sending him to prison might be argued as too lenient. Torturing him would by most people be thought of as the wrong decision. Would God have him tortured? Or at least let him be tortured? If you believe in hell than yes. Not only would God have him tortured, He would have him tortured for all eternity. Even after the man would have most certainly have repented and regretted his actions! Doesn't this sound brutally wrong and twisted?

All the time I hear Christians express sorrow at the tribulation of others. Horrible fates suffered by non-Christians on earth they deem as ghastly, and appalling. They don't stop to think of the incredibly worse fate that awaits them after they are dead. Why don't they accept the unfortunate happenings of others to be Gods 'just' punishment. Why don't they question Gods judgement on sinners in the afterlife if they think less things that happen here on earth are so horrible? If you accept that a poverty stricken old man in China deserves the flames of hell, why would you quail at peoples misery here on earth? Do Christians who hold to the doctrine of hell advocate torture? How could it be otherwise?

Take a look at these people http://3.bp.blogspot.com... Likely none of them have really heard about Christ. Unless you have a sick mind certainly you can't advocate their punishment for things that aren't their fault. It was their fate to live a life of poverty without any knowledge of the Christian God. But God deems them unworthy of forgiveness, to be punished forever? To live a horrible life on earth when God could have delivered them, then to be thrown into the eternal fire afterwards? If this is the Christian God I used to so easily trust in, than I can no longer believe in Him.

I've heard God stuck in some sort of clause that exempted those who did not have the chance to know him.

I've also heard that he reveals Himself to everyone, even the infants who lived only a few seconds after birth! I wonder how they can comprehend and accept Christianity...
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/8/2011 1:13:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 12:16:40 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

What are my limitations?

This an analogy pertaining to God, so almost no limitations.

Having him executed would certainly be just enough. Sending him to prison might be argued as too lenient. Torturing him would by most people be thought of as the wrong decision. Would God have him tortured? Or at least let him be tortured? If you believe in hell than yes. Not only would God have him tortured, He would have him tortured for all eternity. Even after the man would have most certainly have repented and regretted his actions! Doesn't this sound brutally wrong and twisted?

All the time I hear Christians express sorrow at the tribulation of others. Horrible fates suffered by non-Christians on earth they deem as ghastly, and appalling. They don't stop to think of the incredibly worse fate that awaits them after they are dead. Why don't they accept the unfortunate happenings of others to be Gods 'just' punishment. Why don't they question Gods judgement on sinners in the afterlife if they think less things that happen here on earth are so horrible? If you accept that a poverty stricken old man in China deserves the flames of hell, why would you quail at peoples misery here on earth? Do Christians who hold to the doctrine of hell advocate torture? How could it be otherwise?

Take a look at these people http://3.bp.blogspot.com... Likely none of them have really heard about Christ. Unless you have a sick mind certainly you can't advocate their punishment for things that aren't their fault. It was their fate to live a life of poverty without any knowledge of the Christian God. But God deems them unworthy of forgiveness, to be punished forever? To live a horrible life on earth when God could have delivered them, then to be thrown into the eternal fire afterwards? If this is the Christian God I used to so easily trust in, than I can no longer believe in Him.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/8/2011 1:27:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 1:04:27 PM, caveat wrote:
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:


I've heard God stuck in some sort of clause that exempted those who did not have the chance to know him.

That is true. Some people believe that. But there are so many people who do have the chance but still reject Him. I don't think hell is by any means a just punishment. There are certainly some very sane reasons to accept other religions other than Christianity. If you rejected God and wound up in hell. Don't you think after a while you would have experienced enough punishment to be let out? Instead you go on living in torment for infinity.

One defense I heard of the belief that even those who had no chance to know of Christ couldn't enter heaven, which at the time sounded compelling(for some reason) was that it's our fault there are millions of people around the world who haven't heard of Jesus. That we should go minister to them and make sure everyone has heard of Christ.

I've also heard that he reveals Himself to everyone, even the infants who lived only a few seconds after birth! I wonder how they can comprehend and accept Christianity...

If he revealed Himself to everyone there would be WAY WAY more converts. Probably almost everybody.

Btw even though I may sound like an atheist or agnostic right now; I'm Christian. Just a very skeptical Christian with allot of questions and doubts.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/8/2011 7:11:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 1:13:17 PM, phantom wrote:
At 12/8/2011 12:16:40 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

What are my limitations?

This an analogy pertaining to God, so almost no limitations.

I would have arranged it so the circumstances that led to him becoming the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world never came to be.

Next question.
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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12/8/2011 8:45:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

Having him executed would certainly be just enough. Sending him to prison might be argued as too lenient. Torturing him would by most people be thought of as the wrong decision. Would God have him tortured? Or at least let him be tortured? If you believe in hell than yes. Not only would God have him tortured, He would have him tortured for all eternity. Even after the man would have most certainly have repented and regretted his actions! Doesn't this sound brutally wrong and twisted?

All the time I hear Christians express sorrow at the tribulation of others. Horrible fates suffered by non-Christians on earth they deem as ghastly, and appalling. They don't stop to think of the incredibly worse fate that awaits them after they are dead. Why don't they accept the unfortunate happenings of others to be Gods 'just' punishment. Why don't they question Gods judgement on sinners in the afterlife if they think less things that happen here on earth are so horrible? If you accept that a poverty stricken old man in China deserves the flames of hell, why would you quail at peoples misery here on earth? Do Christians who hold to the doctrine of hell advocate torture? How could it be otherwise?

Take a look at these people http://3.bp.blogspot.com... Likely none of them have really heard about Christ. Unless you have a sick mind certainly you can't advocate their punishment for things that aren't their fault. It was their fate to live a life of poverty without any knowledge of the Christian God. But God deems them unworthy of forgiveness, to be punished forever? To live a horrible life on earth when God could have delivered them, then to be thrown into the eternal fire afterwards? If this is the Christian God I used to so easily trust in, than I can no longer believe in Him.

No
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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12/8/2011 8:47:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 1:13:17 PM, phantom wrote:
At 12/8/2011 12:16:40 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

What are my limitations?

This an analogy pertaining to God, so almost no limitations.


What did they do did they touch my girl because if they did eternal torture.

Having him executed would certainly be just enough. Sending him to prison might be argued as too lenient. Torturing him would by most people be thought of as the wrong decision. Would God have him tortured? Or at least let him be tortured? If you believe in hell than yes. Not only would God have him tortured, He would have him tortured for all eternity. Even after the man would have most certainly have repented and regretted his actions! Doesn't this sound brutally wrong and twisted?

All the time I hear Christians express sorrow at the tribulation of others. Horrible fates suffered by non-Christians on earth they deem as ghastly, and appalling. They don't stop to think of the incredibly worse fate that awaits them after they are dead. Why don't they accept the unfortunate happenings of others to be Gods 'just' punishment. Why don't they question Gods judgement on sinners in the afterlife if they think less things that happen here on earth are so horrible? If you accept that a poverty stricken old man in China deserves the flames of hell, why would you quail at peoples misery here on earth? Do Christians who hold to the doctrine of hell advocate torture? How could it be otherwise?

Take a look at these people http://3.bp.blogspot.com... Likely none of them have really heard about Christ. Unless you have a sick mind certainly you can't advocate their punishment for things that aren't their fault. It was their fate to live a life of poverty without any knowledge of the Christian God. But God deems them unworthy of forgiveness, to be punished forever? To live a horrible life on earth when God could have delivered them, then to be thrown into the eternal fire afterwards? If this is the Christian God I used to so easily trust in, than I can no longer believe in Him.
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/8/2011 10:15:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 7:11:54 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/8/2011 1:13:17 PM, phantom wrote:
At 12/8/2011 12:16:40 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/8/2011 10:31:16 AM, phantom wrote:
Suppose you had the power to punish the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world. What would you do? Would you execute him? Would you send him to prison? Would you have him tortured?

What are my limitations?

This an analogy pertaining to God, so almost no limitations.

I would have arranged it so the circumstances that led to him becoming the most vile, wicked loathsome man in the world never came to be.

Next question.

Good answer. No further questions.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/8/2011 10:28:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 6:39:24 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
You could always be an annihilationist or universalist...

I lean to annihilationism.
Universalism has a few reasonable doctrines but for the most part no.

@Calvan Nice arguments there.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/8/2011 10:45:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 10:28:39 PM, phantom wrote:

Universalism has a few reasonable doctrines but for the most part no.


I'm just curious as to why you reject universalism - any reason(s) in particular?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/8/2011 11:16:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 10:45:20 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/8/2011 10:28:39 PM, phantom wrote:

Universalism has a few reasonable doctrines but for the most part no.


I'm just curious as to why you reject universalism - any reason(s) in particular?

I lean to annhilationism and I can't believe both.

They believe everyone goes to heaven. The Bible often speaks about God 'shutting His gates' to the wicked. Universalists believe we are punished in heaven but I think it's clear God does not let some people into heaven. Plus doesn't the Bible describe heaven as a place where there will be no suffering?

They don't believe in Satan.

They believe God loves everyone. Clearly not the case. "Jacob I loved Essau I hated"

One of their beliefs that attracts me though is that all fallen creatures will ultimately be restored to right relationship with God. However annhilationism is more likely in my opinion, although it's a nice thought.

After researching it some however I came across some interesting arguments and am now not as against it as I was.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)