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Can faith be beneficial?

tyler90az
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12/13/2011 10:23:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is mostly to the Atheists. Can faith be beneficial? Yes or no, with explanation.

You say faith is bad because it makes you blind. I am simply wondering if you think it can be beneficial. I think it can be beneficial to both society and individuals. It can make individuals happier and society a better place to live. Agree or disagree?
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
brian_eggleston
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12/13/2011 11:02:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm an atheist but I agree that faith can be beneficial for both individuals and society. It can also be very damaging.

In the Christian context, think about the nice, kind old ladies that hold church jumble sales and give the money they raise to good causes – that's good for all concerned.

But then think about the frothing, religious fanatics that attack and murder people, such as pro-abortionists or stem cell researchers, in the name of God.

It depends on the individual and their interpretation of the scriptures.
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Mr.Infidel
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12/13/2011 11:09:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes

Faith can benefit society if it is done correctly. For example, in Jewish law, it is a mitzvot to care for the poor, care for the needy, and care for the widow.

No

Likewise, faith can be detremental to society. A good example would be the crusades by Christians and 9/11 by Muslims.
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tyler90az
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12/13/2011 11:28:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/13/2011 11:02:26 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
I'm an atheist but I agree that faith can be beneficial for both individuals and society. It can also be very damaging.

In the Christian context, think about the nice, kind old ladies that hold church jumble sales and give the money they raise to good causes – that's good for all concerned.

But then think about the frothing, religious fanatics that attack and murder people, such as pro-abortionists or stem cell researchers, in the name of God.

It depends on the individual and their interpretation of the scriptures.

So as long as faith is not taken to the extreme it is a good thing?
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/13/2011 11:32:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/13/2011 10:23:10 AM, tyler90az wrote:
This is mostly to the Atheists. Can faith be beneficial? Yes or no, with explanation.

You say faith is bad because it makes you blind. I am simply wondering if you think it can be beneficial. I think it can be beneficial to both society and individuals. It can make individuals happier and society a better place to live. Agree or disagree?

Equivocation. Faith is necessary as we never have enough information to draw conclusions through pure logic and we're not purely logical beings to begin with.

That's not the Faith of the Religious, though. That is Faith despite any and all reason or evidence to the contrary, where the magnitude of Faith is measured in direct proportion to how much evidence you lack, and the more Faith you have absent evidence, the "better" that Faith is. God doesn't make himself more obvious because that would preclude Faith, and that would be a bad thing.

Faith, in the general sense of the word, makes the world go round. Religious Faith as described above is just plain stupidity, regardless of how happy it makes people.
tyler90az
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12/13/2011 11:41:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/13/2011 11:32:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/13/2011 10:23:10 AM, tyler90az wrote:
This is mostly to the Atheists. Can faith be beneficial? Yes or no, with explanation.

You say faith is bad because it makes you blind. I am simply wondering if you think it can be beneficial. I think it can be beneficial to both society and individuals. It can make individuals happier and society a better place to live. Agree or disagree?

Equivocation. Faith is necessary as we never have enough information to draw conclusions through pure logic and we're not purely logical beings to begin with.

That's not the Faith of the Religious, though. That is Faith despite any and all reason or evidence to the contrary, where the magnitude of Faith is measured in direct proportion to how much evidence you lack, and the more Faith you have absent evidence, the "better" that Faith is. God doesn't make himself more obvious because that would preclude Faith, and that would be a bad thing.

Faith, in the general sense of the word, makes the world go round. Religious Faith as described above is just plain stupidity, regardless of how happy it makes people.

Interesting post Drafterman and I I agree with the first part. However, this is a religious thread, so obviously the faith I am talking about, is of the religious kind.

If faith makes you happy and society better why is it stupid? Have you been a spiritual person before?
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
gr33k_fr33k5
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12/13/2011 11:48:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Equivocation. Faith is necessary as we never have enough information to draw conclusions through pure logic and we're not purely logical beings to begin with.

That's not the Faith of the Religious, though. That is Faith despite any and all reason or evidence to the contrary, where the magnitude of Faith is measured in direct proportion to how much evidence you lack, and the more Faith you have absent evidence, the "better" that Faith is. God doesn't make himself more obvious because that would preclude Faith, and that would be a bad thing.

Faith, in the general sense of the word, makes the world go round. Religious Faith as described above is just plain stupidity, regardless of how happy it makes people.

^^ In no way did you answer the question . . . perhaps politics is for you . . .
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drafterman
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12/13/2011 11:58:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/13/2011 11:41:57 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 12/13/2011 11:32:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/13/2011 10:23:10 AM, tyler90az wrote:
This is mostly to the Atheists. Can faith be beneficial? Yes or no, with explanation.

You say faith is bad because it makes you blind. I am simply wondering if you think it can be beneficial. I think it can be beneficial to both society and individuals. It can make individuals happier and society a better place to live. Agree or disagree?

Equivocation. Faith is necessary as we never have enough information to draw conclusions through pure logic and we're not purely logical beings to begin with.

That's not the Faith of the Religious, though. That is Faith despite any and all reason or evidence to the contrary, where the magnitude of Faith is measured in direct proportion to how much evidence you lack, and the more Faith you have absent evidence, the "better" that Faith is. God doesn't make himself more obvious because that would preclude Faith, and that would be a bad thing.

Faith, in the general sense of the word, makes the world go round. Religious Faith as described above is just plain stupidity, regardless of how happy it makes people.

Interesting post Drafterman and I I agree with the first part. However, this is a religious thread, so obviously the faith I am talking about, is of the religious kind.

If faith makes you happy and society better why is it stupid?

For the reasons I stated:

"Faith despite any and all reason or evidence to the contrary, where the magnitude of Faith is measured in direct proportion to how much evidence you lack, and the more Faith you have absent evidence, the "better" that Faith is."

Have you been a spiritual person before?

No, I haven't.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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12/13/2011 12:00:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/13/2011 11:28:16 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 12/13/2011 11:02:26 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
I'm an atheist but I agree that faith can be beneficial for both individuals and society. It can also be very damaging.

In the Christian context, think about the nice, kind old ladies that hold church jumble sales and give the money they raise to good causes – that's good for all concerned.

But then think about the frothing, religious fanatics that attack and murder people, such as pro-abortionists or stem cell researchers, in the name of God.

It depends on the individual and their interpretation of the scriptures.

So as long as faith is not taken to the extreme it is a good thing?

So long as it does nobody any harm and helps peeple then it's probably a good thing.
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tyler90az
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12/13/2011 7:24:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
22 But the afruit of the Spirit is clove, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Galatians 5:22-23
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
rogue
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12/13/2011 11:27:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/13/2011 10:23:10 AM, tyler90az wrote:
This is mostly to the Atheists. Can faith be beneficial? Yes or no, with explanation.

You say faith is bad because it makes you blind. I am simply wondering if you think it can be beneficial. I think it can be beneficial to both society and individuals. It can make individuals happier and society a better place to live. Agree or disagree?

Faith is good when there is good rational reason to have it. Such as the fact that I have faith that I will wake up tomorrow morning and continue my life. Faith in God is not well-reasoned or rational. I don't want to type all the reasons out now but if you demand it I will.
RoyLatham
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12/14/2011 8:22:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am an atheist. I think humans innately want to have all their questions answered. Religious people accomplish much of that through religious faith. Why is there evil? It's failing from grace ... or maybe Satan. Atheists adopt political ideologies to serve the same purpose. Why is there evil? Capitalism ... or maybe George Bush. Either approach checks the box for overarching explanation.

Old religious traditions are generally better than new ideologies because the social institutions of churches allow them to evolve. The Bible once embraced slavery, but now Christians reject it. The real world has shown slavery to be a bad thing. Untestable doctrines in religion endure, because they do meet much contradiction in the real world. Ideologies require an active fantasy life with a heavy dose of confirmation bias.

Not every religious person or every atheist conforms to these stereotypes, but they are major forces. Moreover, there is lots of room from multiple ideologies. A Christian might also be a radical environmentalist, with an ideology supply the detailed answers to questions not thoroughly addressed by Christianity. People can take up recycling with a religious fervor.

In addition to the human need to have questions answered, there is a human need to seek morality. Ideologues and religious people are comparable in the desire to claim moral superiority. A need to answer questions supports survival by figuring cause and effect. An instinct for morality supports survival by bonding into tribes.

</atheist sermon>
tyler90az
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12/14/2011 8:50:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 8:22:55 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
I am an atheist. I think humans innately want to have all their questions answered. Religious people accomplish much of that through religious faith. Why is there evil? It's failing from grace ... or maybe Satan. Atheists adopt political ideologies to serve the same purpose. Why is there evil? Capitalism ... or maybe George Bush. Either approach checks the box for overarching explanation.

Old religious traditions are generally better than new ideologies because the social institutions of churches allow them to evolve. The Bible once embraced slavery, but now Christians reject it. The real world has shown slavery to be a bad thing. Untestable doctrines in religion endure, because they do meet much contradiction in the real world. Ideologies require an active fantasy life with a heavy dose of confirmation bias.

Not every religious person or every atheist conforms to these stereotypes, but they are major forces. Moreover, there is lots of room from multiple ideologies. A Christian might also be a radical environmentalist, with an ideology supply the detailed answers to questions not thoroughly addressed by Christianity. People can take up recycling with a religious fervor.

In addition to the human need to have questions answered, there is a human need to seek morality. Ideologues and religious people are comparable in the desire to claim moral superiority. A need to answer questions supports survival by figuring cause and effect. An instinct for morality supports survival by bonding into tribes.

</atheist sermon>

Very good sermon Roy! That sermon proves what is so great about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We offer the answers to some of lives questions. Why are we here? Where are we going? What is the purpose of life? It makes life a lot more enjoyable to know those answers.

We know those questions, yet we are taught to learn more. "And set in order the churches, and study and learn, and become acquainted with all good books, and with languages, tongues, and people." (D&C 90:15) and "Seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith" (D&C 88:118). Every member in the church is told to get an education and learn as much as we can, about everything around us. "of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass . . . that [we] may be prepared in all things." (See Doctrine and Covenants 88:79-80.) We are taught to never stop learning, because knowledge is carried with us to eternity. "Whatever principle of intelligence we attain in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection," (Joseph Smith).
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
lotus_flower
Posts: 454
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12/14/2011 9:09:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, certainly. Some of the most beneficial acts were committed in the name religion, but then again so were the most evil.
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
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Buckethead31594
Posts: 363
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12/14/2011 9:11:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 8:50:01 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 12/14/2011 8:22:55 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
I am an atheist. I think humans innately want to have all their questions answered. Religious people accomplish much of that through religious faith. Why is there evil? It's failing from grace ... or maybe Satan. Atheists adopt political ideologies to serve the same purpose. Why is there evil? Capitalism ... or maybe George Bush. Either approach checks the box for overarching explanation.

Old religious traditions are generally better than new ideologies because the social institutions of churches allow them to evolve. The Bible once embraced slavery, but now Christians reject it. The real world has shown slavery to be a bad thing. Untestable doctrines in religion endure, because they do meet much contradiction in the real world. Ideologies require an active fantasy life with a heavy dose of confirmation bias.

Not every religious person or every atheist conforms to these stereotypes, but they are major forces. Moreover, there is lots of room from multiple ideologies. A Christian might also be a radical environmentalist, with an ideology supply the detailed answers to questions not thoroughly addressed by Christianity. People can take up recycling with a religious fervor.

In addition to the human need to have questions answered, there is a human need to seek morality. Ideologues and religious people are comparable in the desire to claim moral superiority. A need to answer questions supports survival by figuring cause and effect. An instinct for morality supports survival by bonding into tribes.

</atheist sermon>

Very good sermon Roy! That sermon proves what is so great about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We offer the answers to some of lives questions. Why are we here? Where are we going? What is the purpose of life? It makes life a lot more enjoyable to know those answers.

We know those questions, yet we are taught to learn more. "And set in order the churches, and study and learn, and become acquainted with all good books, and with languages, tongues, and people." (D&C 90:15) and "Seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith" (D&C 88:118). Every member in the church is told to get an education and learn as much as we can, about everything around us. "of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass . . . that [we] may be prepared in all things." (See Doctrine and Covenants 88:79-80.) We are taught to never stop learning, because knowledge is carried with us to eternity. "Whatever principle of intelligence we attain in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection," (Joseph Smith).

Tyler, what is it about your beliefs that associate with extraterrestrial planets? If I remember correctly, Mormons believe that God dwells on another planet, and makes spiritual offspring with his wife.

Personally, I would have trouble having faith in this. Could you please explain? :)
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." - Socrates
Buckethead31594
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12/14/2011 9:15:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 9:09:17 AM, lotus_flower wrote:
Well, certainly. Some of the most beneficial acts were committed in the name religion, but then again so were the most evil.

This could also be viewed from a different perspective. Some of the most beneficial acts were not commited in the name of religion, but then again, so were the most evil. In a sense, society tends to focus on one side of the spectrum, when in reality, "evil" is commited everywhere by everyone of every ideology.
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." - Socrates
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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12/14/2011 10:14:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Tyler, what is it about your beliefs that associate with extraterrestrial planets? If I remember correctly, Mormons believe that God dwells on another planet, and makes spiritual offspring with his wife.

Personally, I would have trouble having faith in this. Could you please explain? :)

Pose questions like this in the Why Mormons are scary! thread for now on.

http://www.farimormon.org...
Question

What is Kolob? I've heard that Mormons believe God lives there.
Response

"Kolob" is the name given to the star closest to the throne of God in Abraham 3:3. It is introduced in an effort to teach Abraham that there is a hierarchy in all things. There are many stars, and one star is "closest" to God. In a similar way, there are many intelligences, or moral agents, some greater than others. The greatest of these is God.

Thus, "Kolob" is introduced in a rather peripheral way in an effort to teach about the supremacy of God:

Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other...And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all. (Abraham 3:18-19, italics added)

In an effort to make the Church look bizarre, many critics mock the idea of "God living on the planet Kolob." This is false as God does not live on Kolob. Kolob plays no real role in LDS doctrine or discourse. The only other mention comes from a 19th century hymn, which uses Kolob in its first line to describe the glorious life of those who return to God:[1]

There is no end to glory;
There is no end to love;
There is no end to being;
There is no death above.

Because LDS theology believes in a God with a physical body, it is not surprising that one might speak of God's location in physical space. Creedal Christian critics who believe in a God without "body, parts, or passions" exploit this difference in perspective to make LDS beliefs seem blasphemous or bizarre. But, to speak of God as having location is no more strange than to speak of Jesus' physical location in Bethlehem or Jerusalem during His mortal life.
Conclusion

The Church answered this question as posed by Fox News succinctly:

'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he assign the idea particular significance in relation to the Church's core doctrines.[
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tyler90az
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12/14/2011 10:17:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
As far as wars being started by religions. Would they not have started if there was no religion?
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
drafterman
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12/14/2011 10:35:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 10:17:03 AM, tyler90az wrote:
As far as wars being started by religions. Would they not have started if there was no religion?

Yes. But consider:

Cancer causes death, yet people will still die even if we cure all cancers. Should we not still try to cure all cancers?
tyler90az
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12/14/2011 10:44:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes. But consider:

Cancer causes death, yet people will still die even if we cure all cancers. Should we not still try to cure all cancers?

Consider this:

Without religions, would there have been less wars? I think no matter what there will be wars. By eliminating cancer people get to live longer. By eliminating religion something else takes its place to start wars. I am looking at the opportunity cost of religion. War would not be a negative towards religion, because it would happen anyway, imo.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tyler90az
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12/14/2011 10:46:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 10:44:04 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Yes. But consider:

Cancer causes death, yet people will still die even if we cure all cancers. Should we not still try to cure all cancers?

Consider this:

Without religions, would there have been less wars? I think no matter what there will be wars. By eliminating cancer people get to live longer. By eliminating religion something else takes its place to start wars. I am looking at the opportunity cost of religion. War would not be a negative towards religion, because it would happen anyway, imo.

Something else to add is that religion was used as a reason to start wars, when it was really imperialistic desires. We can't blame religion, because one world leader use it as a crutch to start war.

Interested in hearing the counter argument...
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/14/2011 11:13:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 10:46:19 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 12/14/2011 10:44:04 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Yes. But consider:

Cancer causes death, yet people will still die even if we cure all cancers. Should we not still try to cure all cancers?

Consider this:

Without religions, would there have been less wars? I think no matter what there will be wars. By eliminating cancer people get to live longer. By eliminating religion something else takes its place to start wars. I am looking at the opportunity cost of religion. War would not be a negative towards religion, because it would happen anyway, imo.

Something else to add is that religion was used as a reason to start wars, when it was really imperialistic desires. We can't blame religion, because one world leader use it as a crutch to start war.

Interested in hearing the counter argument...

There doesn't need a counter argument because that's not an argument to begin with.

When someone does something good and attributes it to their religious affiliation, do you ever question them? I doubt it. Yet you question it when they use their religious affiliation to do something bad. That's special pleading.

Unless you have some objective reason for concluding that a person's true motives are different than what they've said, you're just dismissing them because they disagree with your intial presumptions. Present an actual argument, and it can be countered.
tyler90az
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12/14/2011 11:57:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 11:13:35 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/14/2011 10:46:19 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 12/14/2011 10:44:04 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Yes. But consider:

Cancer causes death, yet people will still die even if we cure all cancers. Should we not still try to cure all cancers?

Consider this:

Without religions, would there have been less wars? I think no matter what there will be wars. By eliminating cancer people get to live longer. By eliminating religion something else takes its place to start wars. I am looking at the opportunity cost of religion. War would not be a negative towards religion, because it would happen anyway, imo.

Something else to add is that religion was used as a reason to start wars, when it was really imperialistic desires. We can't blame religion, because one world leader use it as a crutch to start war.

Interested in hearing the counter argument...

There doesn't need a counter argument because that's not an argument to begin with.

When someone does something good and attributes it to their religious affiliation, do you ever question them? I doubt it. Yet you question it when they use their religious affiliation to do something bad. That's special pleading.

Unless you have some objective reason for concluding that a person's true motives are different than what they've said, you're just dismissing them because they disagree with your intial presumptions. Present an actual argument, and it can be countered.

You never responded to this
Without religions, would there have been less wars? I think no matter what there will be wars. By eliminating cancer people get to live longer. By eliminating religion something else takes its place to start wars. I am looking at the opportunity cost of religion. War would not be a negative towards religion, because it would happen anyway, imo.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
drafterman
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12/14/2011 12:14:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 11:57:03 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 12/14/2011 11:13:35 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/14/2011 10:46:19 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 12/14/2011 10:44:04 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Yes. But consider:

Cancer causes death, yet people will still die even if we cure all cancers. Should we not still try to cure all cancers?

Consider this:

Without religions, would there have been less wars? I think no matter what there will be wars. By eliminating cancer people get to live longer. By eliminating religion something else takes its place to start wars. I am looking at the opportunity cost of religion. War would not be a negative towards religion, because it would happen anyway, imo.

Something else to add is that religion was used as a reason to start wars, when it was really imperialistic desires. We can't blame religion, because one world leader use it as a crutch to start war.

Interested in hearing the counter argument...

There doesn't need a counter argument because that's not an argument to begin with.

When someone does something good and attributes it to their religious affiliation, do you ever question them? I doubt it. Yet you question it when they use their religious affiliation to do something bad. That's special pleading.

Unless you have some objective reason for concluding that a person's true motives are different than what they've said, you're just dismissing them because they disagree with your intial presumptions. Present an actual argument, and it can be countered.

You never responded to this
Without religions, would there have been less wars? I think no matter what there will be wars. By eliminating cancer people get to live longer. By eliminating religion something else takes its place to start wars. I am looking at the opportunity cost of religion. War would not be a negative towards religion, because it would happen anyway, imo.

Yes, but even if you get rid of cancer, people will still die. So why even get rid of it?
tyler90az
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12/14/2011 12:35:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes, but even if you get rid of cancer, people will still die. So why even get rid of it?

The reason you get rid of it is because you live longer. Would people who get cancer not live longer if they did not have cancer? We can know without a doubt that eradicating cancer will help people live longer.

My point with war is that there will always be war, not just because of religion. Do you think war would be postponed if there was no religion? I don't think so, people will always find something to war over. Are you saying we should eradicate religion from the world, because it may cause war to be postponed, even know it makes people happier?

I think you would have to argue that religion does not make people happier.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tkubok
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12/14/2011 12:48:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 12:35:32 PM, tyler90az wrote:
Yes, but even if you get rid of cancer, people will still die. So why even get rid of it?

The reason you get rid of it is because you live longer. Would people who get cancer not live longer if they did not have cancer? We can know without a doubt that eradicating cancer will help people live longer.
So in other words, even though there may be a myriad of other diseases and causes of death that prevent people from living longer, we should still endeavor ourselves to eliminating Cancer, because thats one less cause of premature death, and one less reason to die.

Isnt this the same with Religion?

My point with war is that there will always be war, not just because of religion. Do you think war would be postponed if there was no religion? I don't think so, people will always find something to war over. Are you saying we should eradicate religion from the world, because it may cause war to be postponed, even know it makes people happier?

I think there would be one less reason for the suffering caused by war. Just like there would be one less method of dying caused by Cancer. Isnt that reason enough to elimiate something?

I think you would have to argue that religion does not make people happier.

We wouldnt have a problem with religion, if thats all that religion was responsible for.

I think we can all agree that Heroin makes people happier. And if thats all it did, then we wouldnt have a reason to ban Heroin.

This is why your arguments fail.
tyler90az
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12/14/2011 12:59:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 12:48:37 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 12/14/2011 12:35:32 PM, tyler90az wrote:
Yes, but even if you get rid of cancer, people will still die. So why even get rid of it?

The reason you get rid of it is because you live longer. Would people who get cancer not live longer if they did not have cancer? We can know without a doubt that eradicating cancer will help people live longer.
So in other words, even though there may be a myriad of other diseases and causes of death that prevent people from living longer, we should still endeavor ourselves to eliminating Cancer, because thats one less cause of premature death, and one less reason to die.

Isnt this the same with Religion?

Millions of people have cancer, if we eradicate cancer, it will give millions of people a shot to live longer. There is no doubt about that point. Some of the people may get another disease, but it will still eliminate an undoubtedly killer of millions. Not everyone gets disease and people die at all different ages because of disease.

My point with war is that there will always be war, not just because of religion. Do you think war would be postponed if there was no religion? I don't think so, people will always find something to war over. Are you saying we should eradicate religion from the world, because it may cause war to be postponed, even know it makes people happier?

I think there would be one less reason for the suffering caused by war. Just like there would be one less method of dying caused by Cancer. Isnt that reason enough to elimiate something?

My point with war is that there will always be war. Therefore, eliminating religion will not guarantee people will live longer. Are you arguing that there will be no war if there is no religion?

I think you would have to argue that religion does not make people happier.

We wouldnt have a problem with religion, if thats all that religion was responsible for.

I think we can all agree that Heroin makes people happier. And if thats all it did, then we wouldnt have a reason to ban Heroin.

This is why your arguments fail.

My argument does not fail. Your argument fails if it is solely based on religious wars, as stated above.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tyler90az
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12/14/2011 1:01:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I can not figure out a good way to say what I am thinking, sorry.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Stephen_Hawkins
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12/14/2011 1:35:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 10:44:04 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Yes. But consider:

Cancer causes death, yet people will still die even if we cure all cancers. Should we not still try to cure all cancers?

Consider this:

Without religions, would there have been less wars? I think no matter what there will be wars. By eliminating cancer people get to live longer.

I just want to use this analogy. Cancers cause deaths. Religion Causes wars. People will die from other means, but less people will die in total. Wars will still occur, but there will be less of them. The difference is, Religion is something we can stop right now.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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