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implausibility of the gods

ApostateAbe
Posts: 229
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12/16/2011 7:18:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I answered a question in the long flame war thread, but it got buried rather quickly, so I am starting a new thread with it.
At 12/16/2011 5:41:30 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
Why do you say there is no god? What proof do you have that god does not exist? Have you not read the bible?
I say that the gods do not objectively exist because the propositions are implausible. They are not expected from the reality of the universe as we have confirmed it. The reality of the universe as we have confirmed it is the scientific model of the universe, which makes abundant sense without the gods. It is much more plausible to posit that the gods exist as no more than ideas, as human thought much like other thoughts, that get passed from person to person according to whatever is most evangelically persuasive. And the persuasion seems to have a lot more to do with wishful thinking than with objective reality--the wish for a perfect fatherly authority, eternal life, perfect morality, perfect tradition and a loving community. Even if there were no objective gods, it would be expected that people would keep believing in them. There are a few people who more often value reason and the truth for its own sake, and they seem to have little reason to believe in the gods and abundant reason to disbelieve in them. Those kind of people are a slim minority. Most believe believe ideas about the big stuff according to what they want to be true.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/16/2011 7:25:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What proof do you have that an alien mothership with a cloaking device is not hovering above the earth right now ?

Yeah, think about it.

For more info, feel free to join our group Christians for UFO's.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bigbob91
Posts: 132
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12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 7:18:23 PM, ApostateAbe wrote:
I answered a question in the long flame war thread, but it got buried rather quickly, so I am starting a new thread with it.
At 12/16/2011 5:41:30 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
Why do you say there is no god? What proof do you have that god does not exist? Have you not read the bible?
I say that the gods do not objectively exist because the propositions are implausible. They are not expected from the reality of the universe as we have confirmed it. The reality of the universe as we have confirmed it is the scientific model of the universe, which makes abundant sense without the gods. It is much more plausible to posit that the gods exist as no more than ideas, as human thought much like other thoughts, that get passed from person to person according to whatever is most evangelically persuasive. And the persuasion seems to have a lot more to do with wishful thinking than with objective reality--the wish for a perfect fatherly authority, eternal life, perfect morality, perfect tradition and a loving community. Even if there were no objective gods, it would be expected that people would keep believing in them. There are a few people who more often value reason and the truth for its own sake, and they seem to have little reason to believe in the gods and abundant reason to disbelieve in them. Those kind of people are a slim minority. Most believe believe ideas about the big stuff according to what they want to be true.

Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/16/2011 7:29:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Yeah, they can't even account for why friend chicken is delicious, it just doesn't make sense in an atheistic world view.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bigbob91
Posts: 132
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12/16/2011 7:48:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 7:29:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Yeah, they can't even account for why friend chicken is delicious, it just doesn't make sense in an atheistic world view.

are you saying that the law of noncontradiction is merely subjective? Is that what you are saying? Or are you equivocating a transcendent concept with a subjective concept like delicious.
ApostateAbe
Posts: 229
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12/16/2011 7:51:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:18:23 PM, ApostateAbe wrote:
I answered a question in the long flame war thread, but it got buried rather quickly, so I am starting a new thread with it.
At 12/16/2011 5:41:30 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
Why do you say there is no god? What proof do you have that god does not exist? Have you not read the bible?
I say that the gods do not objectively exist because the propositions are implausible. They are not expected from the reality of the universe as we have confirmed it. The reality of the universe as we have confirmed it is the scientific model of the universe, which makes abundant sense without the gods. It is much more plausible to posit that the gods exist as no more than ideas, as human thought much like other thoughts, that get passed from person to person according to whatever is most evangelically persuasive. And the persuasion seems to have a lot more to do with wishful thinking than with objective reality--the wish for a perfect fatherly authority, eternal life, perfect morality, perfect tradition and a loving community. Even if there were no objective gods, it would be expected that people would keep believing in them. There are a few people who more often value reason and the truth for its own sake, and they seem to have little reason to believe in the gods and abundant reason to disbelieve in them. Those kind of people are a slim minority. Most believe believe ideas about the big stuff according to what they want to be true.
Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great.
Yeah, I think this speaks to one of my points. Some people believe things because it seems to be the reasonable truth. Other people believe things because they want to get something out of that belief besides reasonable truth. It is a fundamental difference in valuing belief. I don't hold your value system against you. If someone claims to be holding an invisible gun to your head and threatening to shoot you, how can I blame you if you submit? If you believe in the invisible gun, then you would have no choice.
The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.
Yes, I do think the propositions of the gods have the advantage of explaining almost anything we can possibly imagine. That isn't how I decide my beliefs, however. I generally do not solve mysteries with implausible answers. Many people are comfortable doing that, but I would not be comfortable with myself if I were to do such.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/16/2011 7:58:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 7:48:41 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:29:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Yeah, they can't even account for why friend chicken is delicious, it just doesn't make sense in an atheistic world view.

are you saying that the law of noncontradiction is merely subjective? Is that what you are saying? Or are you equivocating a transcendent concept with a subjective concept like delicious.

Its not subjective, fried chicken been delicious is ABSOLUTE, it even transcend our universe, its transcendent.

Are you saying that if something exists and we don't know any better this proves God ?

Oh and according to you only physical and conceptual things exists, is God physical or conceptual ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bigbob91
Posts: 132
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12/16/2011 8:03:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 7:58:56 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:48:41 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:29:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Yeah, they can't even account for why friend chicken is delicious, it just doesn't make sense in an atheistic world view.

are you saying that the law of noncontradiction is merely subjective? Is that what you are saying? Or are you equivocating a transcendent concept with a subjective concept like delicious.

Its not subjective, fried chicken been delicious is ABSOLUTE, it even transcend our universe, its transcendent.

Are you saying that if something exists and we don't know any better this proves God ?

Oh and according to you only physical and conceptual things exists, is God physical or conceptual ?

Until your worldview can account for logical absolutes, I see no reason to answer your questions. It is your view that doesn't account for logic. But if you must know since god create he is outside the bounds of logic and is both physical and conceptual. Was Jesus physical when he was on the Earth, yes he was.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/16/2011 8:06:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:03:18 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:58:56 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:48:41 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:29:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Yeah, they can't even account for why friend chicken is delicious, it just doesn't make sense in an atheistic world view.

are you saying that the law of noncontradiction is merely subjective? Is that what you are saying? Or are you equivocating a transcendent concept with a subjective concept like delicious.

Its not subjective, fried chicken been delicious is ABSOLUTE, it even transcend our universe, its transcendent.

Are you saying that if something exists and we don't know any better this proves God ?

Oh and according to you only physical and conceptual things exists, is God physical or conceptual ?

Until your worldview can account for logical absolutes, I see no reason to answer your questions. It is your view that doesn't account for logic. But if you must know since god create he is outside the bounds of logic and is both physical and conceptual. Was Jesus physical when he was on the Earth, yes he was.

Bigbob, please debate unitedandy on this subject. :)
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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12/16/2011 8:07:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:03:18 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:58:56 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:48:41 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:29:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Yeah, they can't even account for why friend chicken is delicious, it just doesn't make sense in an atheistic world view.

are you saying that the law of noncontradiction is merely subjective? Is that what you are saying? Or are you equivocating a transcendent concept with a subjective concept like delicious.

Its not subjective, fried chicken been delicious is ABSOLUTE, it even transcend our universe, its transcendent.

Are you saying that if something exists and we don't know any better this proves God ?

Oh and according to you only physical and conceptual things exists, is God physical or conceptual ?

Until your worldview can account for logical absolutes, I see no reason to answer your questions. It is your view that doesn't account for logic. But if you must know since god create he is outside the bounds of logic and is both physical and conceptual. Was Jesus physical when he was on the Earth, yes he was.

How does atheism not account for logical absolutes? Your argument is that it does not matter if God cannot logically exist because he is outside of logic. That is just moronic.
bigbob91
Posts: 132
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12/16/2011 8:07:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:06:02 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/16/2011 8:03:18 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:58:56 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:48:41 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:29:20 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Yeah, they can't even account for why friend chicken is delicious, it just doesn't make sense in an atheistic world view.

are you saying that the law of noncontradiction is merely subjective? Is that what you are saying? Or are you equivocating a transcendent concept with a subjective concept like delicious.

Its not subjective, fried chicken been delicious is ABSOLUTE, it even transcend our universe, its transcendent.

Are you saying that if something exists and we don't know any better this proves God ?

Oh and according to you only physical and conceptual things exists, is God physical or conceptual ?

Until your worldview can account for logical absolutes, I see no reason to answer your questions. It is your view that doesn't account for logic. But if you must know since god create he is outside the bounds of logic and is both physical and conceptual. Was Jesus physical when he was on the Earth, yes he was.

Bigbob, please debate unitedandy on this subject. :)

Which topic do you want me to debate him on?
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/16/2011 8:21:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:07:42 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Bigbob, please debate unitedandy on this subject. :)


Which topic do you want me to debate him on?

Probably something along these lines....

http://www.debate.org...
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bigbob91
Posts: 132
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12/16/2011 8:22:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:21:07 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 8:07:42 PM, bigbob91 wrote:

Bigbob, please debate unitedandy on this subject. :)


Which topic do you want me to debate him on?

Probably something along these lines....

http://www.debate.org...

Have him challenge me and I will accept.
unitedandy
Posts: 1,173
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12/16/2011 8:27:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Bigbob, it's probably better that you initiate the debate given that this way, you can start the debate straight away, but I'd definitely accept if you you want to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of atheism accounting for logical absolutes.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/16/2011 9:11:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:57:11 PM, unitedandy wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

For anyone interested, here's the TAG debate between me and bigbob.

Be gentle.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/16/2011 9:26:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 9:11:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/16/2011 8:57:11 PM, unitedandy wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

For anyone interested, here's the TAG debate between me and bigbob.

Be gentle.

I think you mean crush, kill, destroy.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bigbob91
Posts: 132
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12/16/2011 9:29:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 9:26:25 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 9:11:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/16/2011 8:57:11 PM, unitedandy wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

For anyone interested, here's the TAG debate between me and bigbob.

Be gentle.

I think you mean crush, kill, destroy.

Why are atheists so angry and violent, I will definitely pray for you.
ApostateAbe
Posts: 229
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12/16/2011 11:11:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 9:29:28 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/16/2011 9:26:25 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/16/2011 9:11:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/16/2011 8:57:11 PM, unitedandy wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

For anyone interested, here's the TAG debate between me and bigbob.

Be gentle.

I think you mean crush, kill, destroy.

Why are atheists so angry and violent, I will definitely pray for you.
Nobody likes to hear the phrase, "I will pray for you," in a debate context, because it is passive-aggressive, more often than not. What you really mean to say is: "There is something wrong with you." I don't think prayer has anything to do with it.

I made this related illustration just a few days ago:

http://www.quickmeme.com...
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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12/17/2011 10:52:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Nonsense. You can't defend those claims.
bigbob91
Posts: 132
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12/17/2011 10:54:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 10:52:43 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Nonsense. You can't defend those claims.

I can and I have, I am currently doing so in 2 debates. Now atheist, tell me how do you explain the existence of transcendent logical absolutes that are conceptual, without a transcendent mind, which we call god. The atheist worldview is flawed, they attempt to us logic without even being able to explain how logical absolutes even exist.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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12/17/2011 10:59:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
wanna know whats odd, I'm christian yet believe in a lot of atheists beliefs.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
bigbob91
Posts: 132
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12/17/2011 11:02:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 10:59:03 AM, 16kadams wrote:
wanna know whats odd, I'm christian yet believe in a lot of atheists beliefs.

What is there to believe in as an atheist? I would say nothing.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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12/17/2011 2:07:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 10:54:47 AM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/17/2011 10:52:43 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 12/16/2011 7:26:51 PM, bigbob91 wrote:
Poor poor atheist, if they are wrong, the risks are so great. The atheist attempts to use logic yet their very worldview that they say makes so much sense cannot account for any logical absolutes without god.

Nonsense. You can't defend those claims.

I can and I have, I am currently doing so in 2 debates. Now atheist, tell me how do you explain the existence of transcendent logical absolutes that are conceptual, without a transcendent mind, which we call god. The atheist worldview is flawed, they attempt to us logic without even being able to explain how logical absolutes even exist.

"Transcendent logical absolutes"? Can you give me an example of what you mean? Because I'm not sure I want to defend that. If logic works in the real world, why would I want it to be "transcendent" so as to work in fantasyland too? And what do you mean by "absolutes"?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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12/17/2011 3:45:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 11:02:19 AM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/17/2011 10:59:03 AM, 16kadams wrote:
wanna know whats odd, I'm christian yet believe in a lot of atheists beliefs.

What is there to believe in as an atheist? I would say nothing.

I believe in humanity, in society, i believe in gravity, in the laws of physics, in human decency, in human nature, the list goes on....

What prevents me from believing these, if i dont believe in a God?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/17/2011 3:50:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 11:02:19 AM, bigbob91 wrote:
At 12/17/2011 10:59:03 AM, 16kadams wrote:
wanna know whats odd, I'm christian yet believe in a lot of atheists beliefs.

What is there to believe in as an atheist? I would say nothing.

That might be true if the common atheist thought of God as being everything.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp