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The Lazy God

DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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12/19/2011 5:45:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I just wanted to bring up a topic for discussion here:

Now, I have no problem with the religious believing in the Big Bang theory and evolutionary theory, etc. (as many do), but I think it poses a problem.

And that problem is that of the Lazy God. When a Christian says that they believe that God made it so that the Big Bang and evolution would happen, this makes it so that God doesn't really have to do anything--it poses no deliberate reason for his own existence, as well as no motivation for him to be a personal God either. Again, this is commonly referred to as the Lazy God.

But what do you think?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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12/20/2011 8:26:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
bump
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/20/2011 8:31:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Would you want to do anything after skeeting out the universe? Give God a break, man, you'd be lazy too after rubbing that one out.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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12/20/2011 8:52:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 8:31:33 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Would you want to do anything after skeeting out the universe? Give God a break, man, you'd be lazy too after rubbing that one out.

Lol.

OFF TOPIC STUFF AHEAD

I actually love that part of the 7-day creation: that God, the ultimate being in the universe, after creating the universe, needed to rest on the 7th day. It's just funny to me.
/mini-rant
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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12/20/2011 9:05:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
God does what he wants, man. Why? He's God.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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12/20/2011 9:07:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 9:05:33 PM, M.Torres wrote:
God does what he wants, man. Why? He's God.

That's a valid case up to only a certain point before it's just writing yourself a blank check.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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12/20/2011 9:09:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 9:07:06 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 12/20/2011 9:05:33 PM, M.Torres wrote:
God does what he wants, man. Why? He's God.

That's a valid case up to only a certain point before it's just writing yourself a blank check.

Dude, don't question Morgan Freeman.

This is the ONLY reason He needs.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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12/20/2011 9:14:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 9:09:53 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 12/20/2011 9:07:06 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 12/20/2011 9:05:33 PM, M.Torres wrote:
God does what he wants, man. Why? He's God.

That's a valid case up to only a certain point before it's just writing yourself a blank check.

Dude, don't question Morgan Freeman.

This is the ONLY reason He needs.



*collapses to knees*

How could I have ever doubted you, O Freeman!
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/20/2011 9:30:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't exactly see what the problem is supposed to be here.

At 12/19/2011 5:45:11 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I just wanted to bring up a topic for discussion here:

Now, I have no problem with the religious believing in the Big Bang theory and evolutionary theory, etc. (as many do), but I think it poses a problem.

And that problem is that of the Lazy God. When a Christian says that they believe that God made it so that the Big Bang and evolution would happen, this makes it so that God doesn't really have to do anything

No? Say those Christians believe the following counterfactual is true:

If God had not chosen to do actualize these state of affairs (big bang, evolution), then those state of affairs would not have happened.

It's clear that God had to have done something otherwise those state of affairs would have never happened.

--it poses no deliberate reason for his own existence,

You mean besides actualizing a state of affairs that would not have happened if he had chosen not do so? Plus, Christians tend to believe God has aseity/necessary existence anyways so I'm not sure asking what reason he has for his own existence is not a category mistake.

Also, this: http://plato.stanford.edu...

Christians also tend to believe that God is the sustainer and conserver of all things. Meaning if he withdrew his conserving activity nothing would persist. This hardly turns out to make God out as "lazy" or "hands off".

as well as no motivation for him to be a personal God either.

I'm not sure how that follows at all.

Again, this is commonly referred to as the Lazy God.

Never heard of it.

But what do you think?

(>_>)
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/20/2011 9:39:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 5:45:11 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I just wanted to bring up a topic for discussion here:

Now, I have no problem with the religious believing in the Big Bang theory and evolutionary theory, etc. (as many do), but I think it poses a problem.

And that problem is that of the Lazy God. When a Christian says that they believe that God made it so that the Big Bang and evolution would happen, this makes it so that God doesn't really have to do anything--it poses no deliberate reason for his own existence, as well as no motivation for him to be a personal God either. Again, this is commonly referred to as the Lazy God.

But what do you think?

I second Pop here.

I would also add, if you are claiming God is "hands off".... (I am not consenting he is but...)

Does the Ant on the Ant Hill get to rant at the farmer for being lazy because it was a plow that created the farm he eats off of?

Is there actually any merit to the rant? I see zero purpose.
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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12/20/2011 9:41:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 9:05:33 PM, M.Torres wrote:
God does what he wants, man. Why? He's God.

Did M.Torres say something semi-snarky on an intellectual level I can understand? My life will never be the same.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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12/20/2011 9:42:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 9:41:48 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
At 12/20/2011 9:05:33 PM, M.Torres wrote:
God does what he wants, man. Why? He's God.

Did M.Torres say something semi-snarky on an intellectual level I can understand? My life will never be the same.

Ha ha. Now OUCH. What is THAT supposed to mean? Do I even know you?
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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12/20/2011 9:44:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 9:42:31 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 12/20/2011 9:41:48 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
At 12/20/2011 9:05:33 PM, M.Torres wrote:
God does what he wants, man. Why? He's God.

Did M.Torres say something semi-snarky on an intellectual level I can understand? My life will never be the same.

Ha ha. Now OUCH. What is THAT supposed to mean? Do I even know you?

Uh, no. Not at all. That was an insult to my own intellect. But if you want to take it the other way, I ain't complaining here.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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12/20/2011 9:47:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 9:39:43 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 12/19/2011 5:45:11 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I just wanted to bring up a topic for discussion here:

Now, I have no problem with the religious believing in the Big Bang theory and evolutionary theory, etc. (as many do), but I think it poses a problem.

And that problem is that of the Lazy God. When a Christian says that they believe that God made it so that the Big Bang and evolution would happen, this makes it so that God doesn't really have to do anything--it poses no deliberate reason for his own existence, as well as no motivation for him to be a personal God either. Again, this is commonly referred to as the Lazy God.

But what do you think?

I second Pop here.

I would also add, if you are claiming God is "hands off".... (I am not consenting he is but...)

Does the Ant on the Ant Hill get to rant at the farmer for being lazy because it was a plow that created the farm he eats off of?

Is there actually any merit to the rant? I see zero purpose.

What the f*** are you talking about? This wasn't a rant. The "lazy God" is just a name for a problem with certain apologist thinking. Basically, it's just saying that a God who did the least amount of work in the creation of the universe is not consistent with that of a personal god, and is on the same level as a deist god.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/20/2011 10:12:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 5:45:11 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I just wanted to bring up a topic for discussion here:

Now, I have no problem with the religious believing in the Big Bang theory and evolutionary theory, etc. (as many do), but I think it poses a problem.

And that problem is that of the Lazy God. When a Christian says that they believe that God made it so that the Big Bang and evolution would happen, this makes it so that God doesn't really have to do anything
It happens accordingly to His plan. Thus, He is taking part of every process.

--it poses no deliberate reason for his own existence, as well as no motivation for him to be a personal God either. Again, this is commonly referred to as the Lazy God.
'Commonly' is the new term for 'hardly ever'?

But what do you think?
God needs no rest, and He can do anything in an instant. The fact that He chooses to create certain things in processes has nothing to do with God being lazy. For every stage in a process, there is meaning.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/20/2011 10:17:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It is like calling someone lazy after push a giant bouldsr up a hill and over the side... then decide to take a breather afterwards.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/20/2011 10:31:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 9:47:10 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:


What the f*** are you talking about? This wasn't a rant. The "lazy God" is just a name for a problem with certain apologist thinking.

Do you mind elaborating? I'm not seeing any problem here.

Basically, it's just saying that a God who did the least amount of work in the creation of the universe is not consistent with that of a personal god, and is on the same level as a deist god.

How do you determine what the "least amount of work" is?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/21/2011 12:24:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 5:45:11 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I just wanted to bring up a topic for discussion here:

Now, I have no problem with the religious believing in the Big Bang theory and evolutionary theory, etc. (as many do), but I think it poses a problem.

And that problem is that of the Lazy God. When a Christian says that they believe that God made it so that the Big Bang and evolution would happen, this makes it so that God doesn't really have to do anything--it poses no deliberate reason for his own existence, as well as no motivation for him to be a personal God either. Again, this is commonly referred to as the Lazy God.

But what do you think?

I don't think its a good argument to establish a lazy God, I thought about it for 5 seconds and think I came up with something better, lets assume that "God" in the classic theism exists.

This God is understood to be all powerful in such a way that God never has to exert effort on their part, God either does or does not. As such this means that God has never put any effort it, and what do we call some one that never exerts effort ? Lazy.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/21/2011 12:59:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/21/2011 12:24:09 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/19/2011 5:45:11 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I just wanted to bring up a topic for discussion here:

Now, I have no problem with the religious believing in the Big Bang theory and evolutionary theory, etc. (as many do), but I think it poses a problem.

And that problem is that of the Lazy God. When a Christian says that they believe that God made it so that the Big Bang and evolution would happen, this makes it so that God doesn't really have to do anything--it poses no deliberate reason for his own existence, as well as no motivation for him to be a personal God either. Again, this is commonly referred to as the Lazy God.

But what do you think?

I don't think its a good argument to establish a lazy God, I thought about it for 5 seconds and think I came up with something better, lets assume that "God" in the classic theism exists.

This God is understood to be all powerful in such a way that God never has to exert effort on their part, God either does or does not. As such this means that God has never put any effort it, and what do we call some one that never exerts effort ? Lazy.
You're using human conditions and terms to describe God. Put some effort into reading about philosophical concepts.

God is omnipotent. He is in no need of using energy to do anything, thus he logically cannot do any effort. Nor can He be lazy. The definition of laziness cannot apply to God. http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Whether or not you agree with what God does or how He operates has no relevance to Him being lazy.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/21/2011 9:15:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 10:31:29 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/20/2011 9:47:10 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:


What the f*** are you talking about? This wasn't a rant. The "lazy God" is just a name for a problem with certain apologist thinking.

Do you mind elaborating? I'm not seeing any problem here.

Basically, it's just saying that a God who did the least amount of work in the creation of the universe is not consistent with that of a personal god, and is on the same level as a deist god.

How do you determine what the "least amount of work" is?

Exactly what I was saying with the analogy. I agree with Pop.
Why did you get mad at me? I was pointing out how I understood what you were claiming as a problem.

I did not say you were ranting...

If the analogy did not fit then you will have to explain what you mean as the "least amount of work".
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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12/21/2011 5:50:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
An omnipotent being never works at anything. "Work" implies expending a limited amount of energy to accomplish something. An omnipotent being has unlimited energy to expend, so no matter what He accomplishes, He is never taxed by the effort.

I think there is a slightly interesting argument as to whether it is a greater achievement to set up a self-governing universe or one in which constant intervention is required. Self-sustaining, I think, has the edge, because a need for intervention implies a defect in design or construction. A car that requires continual repairs is inferior to one that runs on its own.
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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12/23/2011 12:09:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 8:52:45 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 12/20/2011 8:31:33 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Would you want to do anything after skeeting out the universe? Give God a break, man, you'd be lazy too after rubbing that one out.

Lol.

OFF TOPIC STUFF AHEAD

I actually love that part of the 7-day creation: that God, the ultimate being in the universe, after creating the universe, needed to rest on the 7th day. It's just funny to me.
/mini-rant

"AND ON THE SEVENTH DAY, GOD MADE A MAGIC TALKING LEOPARD AND FORGOT ALL ABOUT US."