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Shroud of Turin, evidence for Ressurection?

Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?

I see three overwhelming counts of scientific evidence for the ressurection.
The Biblical accounts.
The Astrological accounts (See Star of Bethelehem)
Shroud of Turin is unduplicatable by early Christians or even medieval tech.
CrimsonTokala
Posts: 61
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12/22/2011 3:15:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
: At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?

I see three overwhelming counts of scientific evidence for the ressurection.
The Biblical accounts.
The Astrological accounts (See Star of Bethelehem)
Shroud of Turin is unduplicatable by early Christians or even medieval tech.



Very interesting. I haven't studied the Shroud of Turin much so my knowledge is limited. But the part about the UV radiation sounds like something to look into more.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/22/2011 3:44:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?:

There's a really quick and easy way to debunk the Shroud of Turin. See how the image is 2-dimensional? Burial clothing wraps around the body. If Jesus was as scourged as the biblical account claims, he would have been massively bloody and deep cuts would be seen on the transposed image of his face. Not only is the face in pristine condition (no gouges to the skin, chunks of flesh missing), but the image would have wrapped around. It would not be a 2-dimensional image.

Take a piece of cloth and stain your face with some kind of solution that will transfer from your face to the cloth. If you laid it across your face, the cloth would drape down along the side of the cheeks. If you pulled the cloth flat after doing this, the image of the face would not be the only thing visible, since a human has width and depth (3-dimensional).

This is curiously missing from the Shroud. Most pastors I've ever spoke with don't believe in the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, and neither do I.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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12/22/2011 3:52:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?

I see three overwhelming counts of scientific evidence for the ressurection.
The Biblical accounts.
The Astrological accounts (See Star of Bethelehem)
Shroud of Turin is unduplicatable by early Christians or even medieval tech.

Not evidence, probably fake. many believe though, but no evidence to support it, including the type of cloth. The Bible isn't science. Your astrology rference depends on the Bible. Thus ya got zero counts of scientific evidence. See what you will.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/22/2011 4:38:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It is clearly a fraudulent artifact, and if I remember correctly, tests were done on it to show that it could have only been made in the late middle ages.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/22/2011 5:00:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 3:44:12 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?:

There's a really quick and easy way to debunk the Shroud of Turin. See how the image is 2-dimensional? Burial clothing wraps around the body. If Jesus was as scourged as the biblical account claims, he would have been massively bloody and deep cuts would be seen on the transposed image of his face. Not only is the face in pristine condition (no gouges to the skin, chunks of flesh missing), but the image would have wrapped around. It would not be a 2-dimensional image.

Take a piece of cloth and stain your face with some kind of solution that will transfer from your face to the cloth. If you laid it across your face, the cloth would drape down along the side of the cheeks. If you pulled the cloth flat after doing this, the image of the face would not be the only thing visible, since a human has width and depth (3-dimensional).

This is curiously missing from the Shroud. Most pastors I've ever spoke with don't believe in the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, and neither do I.

The artist had to extract the 3d image of Jesus' face, back in the 90's with a formula that utilized the understanding that it was laying on a 3d body.

I have never heard of anyone one of the scientists complaining about it not on a 3d man.

So you will have to go back to the batting deck on that one.

I also did not view the veracity of the shroud relevant until this discovery. It was always just plausible they had a creative way to paint it.

Now that we know it was done through massive UV exposure, no paints or dies were involved, it was badly c14 dated, proven to be innaccurate, and now we see this very strong evidence.

No one before this past century could ever have done this.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/22/2011 5:01:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 3:52:09 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?

I see three overwhelming counts of scientific evidence for the ressurection.
The Biblical accounts.
The Astrological accounts (See Star of Bethelehem)
Shroud of Turin is unduplicatable by early Christians or even medieval tech.

Not evidence, probably fake. many believe though, but no evidence to support it, including the type of cloth. The Bible isn't science. Your astrology rference depends on the Bible. Thus ya got zero counts of scientific evidence. See what you will.

lol. Blind people complaining about blind people. Will wonders never cease?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/22/2011 5:02:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 4:38:13 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
It is clearly a fraudulent artifact, and if I remember correctly, tests were done on it to show that it could have only been made in the late middle ages.

The post above stated that the C14 dating it to the middle ages was proven false as they found a 1100's text documenting the existence of the shroud prior.

Did you read the post or just the title?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/22/2011 5:31:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I was more or less referring to the fiber of the material that was allegedly used to repair it. The fact that they weren't allowed to retest another part of the cloth is suspicious.

I personally think it is fake.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/22/2011 5:36:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Plus, I'd question the reliability ane neutrality of your source.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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12/22/2011 6:34:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 5:02:39 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 12/22/2011 4:38:13 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
It is clearly a fraudulent artifact, and if I remember correctly, tests were done on it to show that it could have only been made in the late middle ages.

The post above stated that the C14 dating it to the middle ages was proven false as they found a 1100's text documenting the existence of the shroud prior.

Did you read the post or just the title?

Someone could have faked the shroud in order to prove that document true. The document's existence is meaningless.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/22/2011 7:36:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 6:34:14 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 12/22/2011 5:02:39 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 12/22/2011 4:38:13 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
It is clearly a fraudulent artifact, and if I remember correctly, tests were done on it to show that it could have only been made in the late middle ages.

The post above stated that the C14 dating it to the middle ages was proven false as they found a 1100's text documenting the existence of the shroud prior.

Did you read the post or just the title?

Someone could have faked the shroud in order to prove that document true. The document's existence is meaningless.

Wow, that is a bit of a stretch....
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/22/2011 7:58:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Always the path of least resistance with yeh.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/22/2011 8:08:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?

I see three overwhelming counts of scientific evidence for the ressurection.
The Biblical accounts.
The Astrological accounts (See Star of Bethelehem)
Shroud of Turin is unduplicatable by early Christians or even medieval tech.

Seems to me as though this is simply an overblown hoax stemming from a classic logical fallacy. It's embarrassing and frustrating for a Christian like me.

Alright, here:

Let's say that it's 100% confirmed and accepted that this piece of linin is actually a loincloth that's thousands of years old. How would this somehow confirm the birth, life, and untimely torture and crucifixion of a Jewish man that was born from a virgin, because he was destined to act as a sacrifice to God, then rise from the dead three days later as God Himself?

All it confirms is that we have a really old loincloth that bears the translucent image of the Christ as it's been painted during the period which it was discovered -- the Victorian period -- although it also keenly looks somewhat akin to a closeup of a panting from the Middle Ages, as well. I think that's a little mor telling of the origin of the cloth.

Art is interesting and engaging and is not the substance, proof, or premise behind an entire theological perspective. Well, at least, it shouldn't be.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/22/2011 8:58:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 8:08:18 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?

I see three overwhelming counts of scientific evidence for the ressurection.
The Biblical accounts.
The Astrological accounts (See Star of Bethelehem)
Shroud of Turin is unduplicatable by early Christians or even medieval tech.

Seems to me as though this is simply an overblown hoax stemming from a classic logical fallacy. It's embarrassing and frustrating for a Christian like me.

Alright, here:

Let's say that it's 100% confirmed and accepted that this piece of linin is actually a loincloth that's thousands of years old. How would this somehow confirm the birth, life, and untimely torture and crucifixion of a Jewish man that was born from a virgin, because he was destined to act as a sacrifice to God, then rise from the dead three days later as God Himself?

All it confirms is that we have a really old loincloth that bears the translucent image of the Christ as it's been painted during the period which it was discovered -- the Victorian period -- although it also keenly looks somewhat akin to a closeup of a panting from the Middle Ages, as well. I think that's a little mor telling of the origin of the cloth.

Art is interesting and engaging and is not the substance, proof, or premise behind an entire theological perspective. Well, at least, it shouldn't be.

Couple of questions:
What denomination are you that you know so little about the resurrection of Jesus?
Are you aware this is a Jewish Death shroud not a loin cloth?
Also, you do realize that Medieval paintings of Jesus were taken from this shroud as they believed this to be one of the foremost example of what Jesus looked like?

This shroud has a history tracked back in liturature of the early A.D.

Do you realize this is proven not to be a painting at all?
No trace of any kind of material made the image. Only actual blood stains were found.
Additionally, the post was detailing (as was the news report) that indeed the shroud was created by Massive UV energy pulse?

How this validates the resurrection is that this shroud is handed down through history and now is proven to be created in a way that could not have been in any time prior in history than this age.

I until this moment did not equate this as evidence, but this proven explanation of the shroud is near overwhelming.

Should it be considered?
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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12/22/2011 9:15:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
depends on the view

History channel had people prove it... and Penn and teller disprove it...lol
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/22/2011 10:13:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 8:58:29 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 12/22/2011 8:08:18 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?

I see three overwhelming counts of scientific evidence for the ressurection.
The Biblical accounts.
The Astrological accounts (See Star of Bethelehem)
Shroud of Turin is unduplicatable by early Christians or even medieval tech.

Seems to me as though this is simply an overblown hoax stemming from a classic logical fallacy. It's embarrassing and frustrating for a Christian like me.

Alright, here:

Let's say that it's 100% confirmed and accepted that this piece of linin is actually a loincloth that's thousands of years old. How would this somehow confirm the birth, life, and untimely torture and crucifixion of a Jewish man that was born from a virgin, because he was destined to act as a sacrifice to God, then rise from the dead three days later as God Himself?

All it confirms is that we have a really old loincloth that bears the translucent image of the Christ as it's been painted during the period which it was discovered -- the Victorian period -- although it also keenly looks somewhat akin to a closeup of a panting from the Middle Ages, as well. I think that's a little mor telling of the origin of the cloth.

Art is interesting and engaging and is not the substance, proof, or premise behind an entire theological perspective. Well, at least, it shouldn't be.

Couple of questions:
What denomination are you that you know so little about the resurrection of Jesus?
Are you aware this is a Jewish Death shroud not a loin cloth?
Also, you do realize that Medieval paintings of Jesus were taken from this shroud as they believed this to be one of the foremost example of what Jesus looked like?

This shroud has a history tracked back in liturature of the early A.D.

Do you realize this is proven not to be a painting at all?
No trace of any kind of material made the image. Only actual blood stains were found.
Additionally, the post was detailing (as was the news report) that indeed the shroud was created by Massive UV energy pulse?

How this validates the resurrection is that this shroud is handed down through history and now is proven to be created in a way that could not have been in any time prior in history than this age.

I until this moment did not equate this as evidence, but this proven explanation of the shroud is near overwhelming.

Should it be considered?

Correct me. Explain how I was wrong regarding the crucifixion, then tell me what really happened/what it really meant. Thanks.
s-anthony
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12/22/2011 10:36:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 8:58:29 PM, Gileandos wrote:
How this validates the resurrection is that this shroud is handed down through history and now is proven to be created in a way that could not have been in any time prior in history than this age.

I until this moment did not equate this as evidence, but this proven explanation of the shroud is near overwhelming.

Should it be considered?

Saying the shroud is two-thousand years old, or, that, a burst of radiation created it, does not prove the identity of the person on the cloth.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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12/23/2011 12:37:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's likely the Shroud was faked following the previously published description. It's also possible that a series of nearly identical Shrouds were faked over the years. Faking relics was big business in those days, and copies could have been sold to different people without much worry of the Federal Trade Commission catching up with the scam.

The image on the Shroud is distorted as if it were wrapped around a person. The face is wider than a photo-like projection would be. That's consistent with it being faked by wrapping cloth around a person and painting or rubbing the surfaces. It is odd that the face appears uninjured, but deities could heal quickly.

No one knows how the Shroud was created. To me that means that no one knows how it was created. To others that means it must have been through magic.

The materials and methods of ancient times are often unknown. It was only a few years ago that scientists explained Stradivarius violin properties. http://www.sciencedaily.com... There are lots of mysteries as to how things like Stonehenge were constructed. Magical explanations can explain anything.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/23/2011 1:25:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If Jesus wasn't resurrected then where's the body? No one ever found Jesus's body and I think that if it was grave robbed the truth would have eventually surfaced. Historically, without religious context or belief the body simply vanished... the Disciples claimed to have seen him resurrected. Coincidence? Personally I don't think so. No body was ever produced and a feat like that wouldn't have remained a secret for long because of human nature to boast.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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12/23/2011 3:58:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 1:25:47 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
If Jesus wasn't resurrected then where's the body? No one ever found Jesus's body and I think that if it was grave robbed the truth would have eventually surfaced. Historically, without religious context or belief the body simply vanished... the Disciples claimed to have seen him resurrected. Coincidence? Personally I don't think so. No body was ever produced and a feat like that wouldn't have remained a secret for long because of human nature to boast.

Are you serious? Where is the body of Julius Caesar? Moses? Zeus?
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/23/2011 10:54:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 3:58:28 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 12/23/2011 1:25:47 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
If Jesus wasn't resurrected then where's the body? No one ever found Jesus's body and I think that if it was grave robbed the truth would have eventually surfaced. Historically, without religious context or belief the body simply vanished... the Disciples claimed to have seen him resurrected. Coincidence? Personally I don't think so. No body was ever produced and a feat like that wouldn't have remained a secret for long because of human nature to boast.

Are you serious? Where is the body of Julius Caesar? Moses? Zeus?

there are records of what happened to them after they died.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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12/23/2011 10:57:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 1:25:47 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
If Jesus wasn't resurrected then where's the body? No one ever found Jesus's body and I think that if it was grave robbed the truth would have eventually surfaced.:

If Moses was real, where's his body? If David was real, where's his body? If Peter was real, where's his body? If Paul was real, where's his body? You do realize there was Jesus DNA on file to prove the remains, right?

Historically, without religious context or belief the body simply vanished... the Disciples claimed to have seen him resurrected. Coincidence?:

Unsubstantiated claim = truth. Good to know.

No body was ever produced and a feat like that wouldn't have remained a secret for long because of human nature to boast.:

Considering that Josephus wrote a blurb about Jesus, it's more than likely that he wasn't the rock star you think he was, but was just another failed messiah in a long list of failed messiah's. They didn't give him a second thought.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/23/2011 11:01:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There is evidence of what happened to Zeus' body after he died.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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12/23/2011 12:05:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 10:54:51 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/23/2011 3:58:28 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 12/23/2011 1:25:47 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
If Jesus wasn't resurrected then where's the body? No one ever found Jesus's body and I think that if it was grave robbed the truth would have eventually surfaced. Historically, without religious context or belief the body simply vanished... the Disciples claimed to have seen him resurrected. Coincidence? Personally I don't think so. No body was ever produced and a feat like that wouldn't have remained a secret for long because of human nature to boast.

Are you serious? Where is the body of Julius Caesar? Moses? Zeus?

there are records of what happened to them after they died.

Really? Where is zeus? Records about Moses? mmmm looks like fos to me
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/24/2011 11:17:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 10:36:10 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 12/22/2011 8:58:29 PM, Gileandos wrote:
How this validates the resurrection is that this shroud is handed down through history and now is proven to be created in a way that could not have been in any time prior in history than this age.

I until this moment did not equate this as evidence, but this proven explanation of the shroud is near overwhelming.

Should it be considered?


Saying the shroud is two-thousand years old, or, that, a burst of radiation created it, does not prove the identity of the person on the cloth.

Sure, because Jim Johnson had a death shroud that was handed down through history..... and it was coincidentally generated by High Energy UV burst.....

Wow! Those silly religious people who think Jim Johnson's, Supernatural UV Shroud is Jesus.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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12/24/2011 11:23:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/22/2011 3:12:56 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mostly to Counter GreatIam's blathering.

I would like to talk about something Interesting.

http://www.christianpost.com...

So they have been able to duplicate the shroud of Turin and confirmed it is a massive burst of UV radiation.

Completely unduplicatable before today's Tech. It simple could not have been created.

They could not find paint, stain or anything organic that created this. Now they have the answer as to what created it.

Despite the claims of C14 dating in 88' that was proven innaccurate due to a medieval book documenting the existence of the shroud in the 1100's....

Asking Christians....
Do you think this is evidence for the ressurection of Jesus?

I see three overwhelming counts of scientific evidence for the ressurection.
The Biblical accounts.
The Astrological accounts (See Star of Bethelehem)
Shroud of Turin is unduplicatable by early Christians or even medieval tech.

This hypothesis was advanced in the 1930s, and was harshly condemned.

"A harsh criticism of the energy source hypothesis comes from Raymond N. Rogers who was involved in work with The Shroud since the conception of the STURP project in 1978. As he states, "If any form of radiation (thermal, electromagnetic, or particle) degraded the cellulose of the linen fibers to produce the image color, it would have had to penetrate the entire diameter of a fiber in order to color its back surface. Some lower fibers are colored, requiring more penetration. Radiation that penetrated the entire 10-15-μm-diameter of a fiber would certainly color the walls of the medulla. All image fibers show color on their surfaces but not in the medullas."[153]"
Gileandos
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12/24/2011 11:29:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 12:37:55 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
It's likely the Shroud was faked following the previously published description. It's also possible that a series of nearly identical Shrouds were faked over the years. Faking relics was big business in those days, and copies could have been sold to different people without much worry of the Federal Trade Commission catching up with the scam.

If that were the case would we not have a thousand shrouds floatin around?
Also, just because we can point to most politicians as corrupt we do not assume they all are.
Each artifact should be taken upon its own merits. It is the reason why some have viewed the Shroud's veracity as legitimate based upon its own account.


The image on the Shroud is distorted as if it were wrapped around a person. The face is wider than a photo-like projection would be. That's consistent with it being faked by wrapping cloth around a person and painting or rubbing the surfaces. It is odd that the face appears uninjured, but deities could heal quickly.

The shroud was wrapped around a person. Both sides reflect the exact proportions, as would be expected, with zero materials making the image.

Given that the ressurection event restored all his wounds but the stab wounds, I do not find this inconsistent with the account. I see no need to have a wounded Jesus displayed, the blood stains show the wound was present at all locations, prior to the post restoration event recorded upon the shroud.


No one knows how the Shroud was created. To me that means that no one knows how it was created. To others that means it must have been through magic.

The whole article was proof presented for peer review that the Shroud was created the a massive UV energy burst.


The materials and methods of ancient times are often unknown. It was only a few years ago that scientists explained Stradivarius violin properties. http://www.sciencedaily.com... There are lots of mysteries as to how things like Stonehenge were constructed. Magical explanations can explain anything.

A Massive UV Energy burst was the method of creating this.
No such technology existed in the medieval times prior to this.

The properties of a violin being manufactured and a bunch of medieval despots hiding a Massive UV generator in their dungeons, is completely different to my mind.

Why would you even point this out?