Total Posts:14|Showing Posts:1-14
Jump to topic:

The Buddha Explains Universal Mind

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/30/2011 5:10:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
While it is blatantly the case that the Buddha is an Atheist (see here post 3: http://www.debate.org...), the Buddha still referenced what he called Universal Mind. It's a concept that is foreign to Theist, Deist, Pantheist, and Atheist philosophical positions. It's not personal, it's not a "thing" that can be impersonal, nor is it complete absence of a God/Absolute.

In the Lankavatara Sutra, the Buddha explains Universal Mind and our relation to it. It's not easy reading and requires deep philosophical contemplation and focus to comprehend.

"Then said Mahamati to the Blessed One: Pray tell us, Blessed One, about Universal Mind and its relation to the lower mind-system?

The Blessed One replied: The sense-minds and their centralized discriminating-mind are related to the external world which is a manifestation of itself and is given over to perceiving, discriminating, and grasping its maya(illusion)-like appearances.

Universal Mind (Alaya-vijnana) transcends all individuation and limits. Universal Mind is thoroughly pure in its essential nature, subsisting unchanged and free from faults of impermanence, undisturbed by egoism, unruffled by distinctions, desires and aversions.

Universal Mind is like a great ocean, its surface ruffled by waves and surges but its depths remaining forever unmoved. In itself it is devoid of personality and all that belongs to it, but by reason of the defilements upon its face it is like an actor a plays a variety of parts, among which a mutual functioning takes place and the mind-system arises."

-- the Buddha [Lankavatara Sutra]

The rest of his explanation can be found here: http://www.purifymind.com... (Ch.5 The Mind System)

I post this because I find it to be a unique perspective, one which most haven't been exposed to yet, and one that I believe to be the best and most sophisticated explanation as to what Ultimate Reality is.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Physik
Posts: 686
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/30/2011 5:29:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So correct me if I'm wrong, because I honestly know very little about Buddhism.

But what I'm getting from this is all of existence, including ourselves, is connected, and through all of our actions we alter the nature of said existence.

Yes/no?
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/30/2011 5:47:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 5:29:24 AM, Physik wrote:
But what I'm getting from this is all of existence, including ourselves, is connected, and through all of our actions we alter the nature of said existence.

Yes/no?

Nope, that's not what was implied by this. No being has an inherent self-nature and is therefore not a separate isolated object from which could be said to be connected to anything. The word "connected" implies separateness of beings, Buddhism acknowledges no such thing. Buddhism emphasizes non-self, insubstantiality of the ego, and the Great Void. Perhaps a look at the Buddhist concept of interdependence of all things may give one reason to think that all things are connected, and they are in a way, but ultimately not so.

"He must recognize the fact that the world has no self nature, that it is un-born, that it is like a passing cloud, like an imaginary wheel made by a revolving firebrand, like the castle of the Gandharvas, like the moon reflected in the ocean, like a vision, a mirage, a dream. He must come to understand that mind in its essence-nature has nothing to do with discrimination nor causation; he must not listen to discourses based on the imaginary terms and qualifications; he must understand that Universal Mind in its pure essence is a state of imagelessness."
-- the Buddha [Lankavatara Sutra]

"The world, indeed, is like a dream and the treasures of the world are an alluring mirage! Like the apparent distances in a picture, things have no reality in themselves, but they are like heat haze."
-- the Buddha
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Physik
Posts: 686
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/30/2011 5:56:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 5:47:32 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/30/2011 5:29:24 AM, Physik wrote:
But what I'm getting from this is all of existence, including ourselves, is connected, and through all of our actions we alter the nature of said existence.

Yes/no?

Nope, that's not what was implied by this. No being has an inherent self-nature and is therefore not a separate isolated object from which could be said to be connected to anything. The word "connected" implies separateness of beings, Buddhism acknowledges no such thing. Buddhism emphasizes non-self, insubstantiality of the ego, and the Great Void. Perhaps a look at the Buddhist concept of interdependence of all things may give one reason to think that all things are connected, and they are in a way, but ultimately not so.

"He must recognize the fact that the world has no self nature, that it is un-born, that it is like a passing cloud, like an imaginary wheel made by a revolving firebrand, like the castle of the Gandharvas, like the moon reflected in the ocean, like a vision, a mirage, a dream. He must come to understand that mind in its essence-nature has nothing to do with discrimination nor causation; he must not listen to discourses based on the imaginary terms and qualifications; he must understand that Universal Mind in its pure essence is a state of imagelessness."
-- the Buddha [Lankavatara Sutra]

"The world, indeed, is like a dream and the treasures of the world are an alluring mirage! Like the apparent distances in a picture, things have no reality in themselves, but they are like heat haze."
-- the Buddha

So, reality as we perceive it does not exist. Our consciousness is what give it existence, and the interactions of our consciousnesses is what makes it real?

If not, I'm just going to go to bed and try in the morning, brains pretty fuzzy right now.
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/30/2011 4:38:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 5:56:18 AM, Physik wrote:

So, reality as we perceive it does not exist.

Correct.

Our consciousness is what give it existence,

No, existence already exists, were just percieving it through a lense.

and the interactions of our consciousnesses is what makes it real?

No, thats solipsism.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/30/2011 6:08:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lul. This is the same thing I am talking about. The people around here don't get it when spoken or written by someone who lives today. The only difference here is that someone might take the time to figure out something when it comes from someone with Buddha's reputation.

Trying to get people to understand the concept of maya alone is difficult due to the nature of it.

But I know these things are true, because people from remote parts of the world and in different times manage to figure it out.

Geo, you don't choose to call it "God", but I do.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/30/2011 11:16:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 6:08:04 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Lul. This is the same thing I am talking about. The people around here don't get it when spoken or written by someone who lives today. The only difference here is that someone might take the time to figure out something when it comes from someone with Buddha's reputation.

Trying to get people to understand the concept of maya alone is difficult due to the nature of it.


But I know these things are true, because people from remote parts of the world and in different times manage to figure it out.

Geo, you don't choose to call it "God", but I do.

Lately I have become more open to calling it God, though I still dont agree that it's the most accurate term for it.

.
.
.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Physik
Posts: 686
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/31/2011 12:25:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:38:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/30/2011 5:56:18 AM, Physik wrote:

So, reality as we perceive it does not exist.

Correct.

Our consciousness is what give it existence,

No, existence already exists, were just percieving it through a lense.

And the removal of that lens is enlightenment?
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/31/2011 1:40:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 6:08:04 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Lul. This is the same thing I am talking about. The people around here don't get it when spoken or written by someone who lives today. The only difference here is that someone might take the time to figure out something when it comes from someone with Buddha's reputation.

Trying to get people to understand the concept of maya alone is difficult due to the nature of it.


But I know these things are true, because people from remote parts of the world and in different times manage to figure it out.

Geo, you don't choose to call it "God", but I do.

The word "God" has got way too much baggage associated with it IMO.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/31/2011 3:38:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
When you have to deal with people who are offended greatly just by being around someone who doesn't call anything God, you have to get creative.

But truly, I believe it is the most accurate understanding of God there is. It fits remarkably well with scripture from all across the map.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/1/2012 3:51:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/31/2011 2:22:23 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
Buddhism clearly stole from Hegel. Not cool.

Except they're not the same. Probably the only similar idea they had was ontological monism.

Not to mention, Buddhism predates Hegel by 2,300 years.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/1/2012 6:50:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 5:10:52 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Let me see whether our interpretations synch...

In the Lankavatara Sutra, the Buddha explains Universal Mind and our relation to it. It's not easy reading and requires deep philosophical contemplation and focus to comprehend.

"Then said Mahamati to the Blessed One: Pray tell us, Blessed One, about Universal Mind and its relation to the lower mind-system?

The Blessed One replied: The sense-minds and their centralized discriminating-mind are related to the external world which is a manifestation of itself and is given over to perceiving, discriminating, and grasping its maya(illusion)-like appearances.

Alright, so here, he essentially says that the external world is a manifestation of each individual mind interpreting it, and that each individual mind is entirely caught up with this interpretation rather than the actual nature of itself, its manifestations, or the great scheme.

Universal Mind (Alaya-vijnana) transcends all individuation and limits. Universal Mind is thoroughly pure in its essential nature, subsisting unchanged and free from faults of impermanence, undisturbed by egoism, unruffled by distinctions, desires and aversions.

Here, he says that the Universal Mind is essentially a comprehensive consciousness so expansive and amorphous, it does not exhibit petty imperfections like egotism and desire, and instead simply exists in an of itself in all things as well as despite them.

Universal Mind is like a great ocean, its surface ruffled by waves and surges but its depths remaining forever unmoved. In itself it is devoid of personality and all that belongs to it, but by reason of the defilements upon its face it is like an actor a plays a variety of parts, among which a mutual functioning takes place and the mind-system arises."

Here, he expounds upon how expansive the Universal Mind is, comparing it to an ocean by stating that the best anything else in existence can do to affect it is merely agitate its surface. In this way, although it interacts with reality and individual consciousness in order to maintain some degree of homeostasis, relative to the amount of affect the Universal Mind capable of having on reality and individual consciousnesses, those individual consciousnesses and reality cannot affect it.

-- the Buddha [Lankavatara Sutra]

The rest of his explanation can be found here: http://www.purifymind.com... (Ch.5 The Mind System)

I post this because I find it to be a unique perspective, one which most haven't been exposed to yet, and one that I believe to be the best and most sophisticated explanation as to what Ultimate Reality is.

I'm familiar with the lifestream/Universal Consciousness perspective... it's appealing and interesting, but you have to admit that it does, in some ways, coincide with many conceptions of "God."
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 9:53:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Buddha's understanding of this is what convinced me that he was a genius. This is a concept that is very hard for people to grasp and accept, yet it is so obviously true.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp