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Near Death Experiences and Hell

M.Torres
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12/30/2011 4:05:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here is one reason I strongly doubt in an actual Hell. Which has its own implications on religion (their validity, etc) as a result.

Okay, recently I watched a video where a young man told his story of near death experiences (he recently passed away after his third encounter with it). He basically discusses a white light, being in a white room, and an incredible peace he could not describe. He said this made him believe in God and Angels.

But I have to ask: where are the near-death experiences with Hell? I'm sure we could find and discuss thousands of people who will recount near-death experiences with white lights, heaven, family waiting for you, etc etc. All the time they're always positive and point out that if there IS an afterlife, it's a good one.

But again: where are the ones who almost when to Hell? I haven't seen anyone be, "I almost died, and when I did, it was HOT and HORRIBLE and I NEVER WANT TO GO BACK." I haven't seen any. Maybe that's lack on my part. But from my understanding, there are not any cases of someone saying they met Satan, or devils, or eternal punishment - even if just for a brief moment before CPR brought them back.

So... why is that?
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
tyler90az
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12/30/2011 4:10:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint view:

We do not believe in the traditional version of heaven and hell. We believe in three kingdoms of glory(heaven). Any of these three kingdoms are better then mortality. Does it not make sense that God would give ample chance for his children to make it too Heaven?

Celestial Kingdom:
The highest kingdom of glory, the inhabitants will be in the presence of God the Father and Jesus Christ. It is likened unto the Sun in glory. The inhabitants are the Saints of God, his children who have accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ, performed all the necessary ordinances and lived righteously.

55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ's, and Christ is God's.

Terrestrial Kingdom:
The middle glory, it is likened onto the glory of the moon. They will have the presence of the Son. The inhabitants will be the people who have lived a good life and worshiped God in the way they thought was correct. However, they never accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ or performed the necessary ordinances to enter the Celestial Kingdom.

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

Telestial Kingdom:
The least degree of glory, likened onto the glory of the stars. They will have the presence of the Holy Ghost. It is a place for criminals and bad people.

81 And again, we asaw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the atestimony of Jesus.

83 These are they who adeny not the Holy Spirit.

84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.

Hell:
Is a place for sons of perdition or those who have received his full glory(very few), yet have denied the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. It is a place where very few souls will end up. Even then it is not a traditional version of hell, it is hell in the sense, of knowing you could have done better. Those in the Terrestial Kingdom ad Telestial Kingdom also experience hell, knowing they could have done better.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and anone of them is blost, but the son of cperdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12

God Loves All:
He knows each of us individually and loves all of us. It is not conditional, it is unconditional love. That is why God has given so many chances for us to return onto him. That is why he sends out legions of missionaries to rescue his children.

"Sisters(anyone), wherever you are, whatever your circumstances may be, you are not forgotten. No matter how dark your days may seem, no matter how insignificant you may feel, no matter how overshadowed you think you may be, your Heavenly Father has not forgotten you. In fact, He loves you with an infinite love.

Just think of it: You are known and remembered by the most majestic, powerful, and glorious Being in the universe! You are loved by the King of infinite space and everlasting time!

He who created and knows the stars knows you and your name—you are the daughters of His kingdom. The Psalmist wrote:

"When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

"What is man, that thou art mindful of him? …

"For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour."5

God loves you because you are His child. He loves you even though at times you may feel lonely or make mistakes."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf

Why does hell exist ? because God created it, think about it. I mean I suppose God could of chosen NOT to create hell, but then, how are we going to scare the sh*t outta people ?

God created hell for the devil.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matt. 25:41

21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

22 And behold, others heflattereth away, and telleth them there is no bhell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
2 Nephi 28:21

Scriptures:

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a clove of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
2 Nephi 31:20

3 And the great and wonderful love made manifest by the Father and the Son in the coming of the Redeemer into the world;

4 That through his atonement, and by obedience to the principles of the gospel, mankind might be saved.
D&C 138: 3-4

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the boath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deut: 7-8
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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12/30/2011 4:13:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:10:37 PM, tyler90az wrote:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint view:

We do not believe in the traditional version of heaven and hell. We believe in three kingdoms of glory(heaven). Any of these three kingdoms are better then mortality. Does it not make sense that God would give ample chance for his children to make it too Heaven?

Celestial Kingdom:
The highest kingdom of glory, the inhabitants will be in the presence of God the Father and Jesus Christ. It is likened unto the Sun in glory. The inhabitants are the Saints of God, his children who have accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ, performed all the necessary ordinances and lived righteously.

55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ's, and Christ is God's.

Terrestrial Kingdom:
The middle glory, it is likened onto the glory of the moon. They will have the presence of the Son. The inhabitants will be the people who have lived a good life and worshiped God in the way they thought was correct. However, they never accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ or performed the necessary ordinances to enter the Celestial Kingdom.

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

Telestial Kingdom:
The least degree of glory, likened onto the glory of the stars. They will have the presence of the Holy Ghost. It is a place for criminals and bad people.

81 And again, we asaw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the atestimony of Jesus.

83 These are they who adeny not the Holy Spirit.

84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.

Hell:
Is a place for sons of perdition or those who have received his full glory(very few), yet have denied the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. It is a place where very few souls will end up. Even then it is not a traditional version of hell, it is hell in the sense, of knowing you could have done better. Those in the Terrestial Kingdom ad Telestial Kingdom also experience hell, knowing they could have done better.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and anone of them is blost, but the son of cperdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12

God Loves All:
He knows each of us individually and loves all of us. It is not conditional, it is unconditional love. That is why God has given so many chances for us to return onto him. That is why he sends out legions of missionaries to rescue his children.

"Sisters(anyone), wherever you are, whatever your circumstances may be, you are not forgotten. No matter how dark your days may seem, no matter how insignificant you may feel, no matter how overshadowed you think you may be, your Heavenly Father has not forgotten you. In fact, He loves you with an infinite love.

Just think of it: You are known and remembered by the most majestic, powerful, and glorious Being in the universe! You are loved by the King of infinite space and everlasting time!

He who created and knows the stars knows you and your name—you are the daughters of His kingdom. The Psalmist wrote:

"When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

"What is man, that thou art mindful of him? …

"For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour."5

God loves you because you are His child. He loves you even though at times you may feel lonely or make mistakes."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf

Why does hell exist ? because God created it, think about it. I mean I suppose God could of chosen NOT to create hell, but then, how are we going to scare the sh*t outta people ?


God created hell for the devil.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matt. 25:41

21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

22 And behold, others heflattereth away, and telleth them there is no bhell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
2 Nephi 28:21

Scriptures:

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a clove of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
2 Nephi 31:20

3 And the great and wonderful love made manifest by the Father and the Son in the coming of the Redeemer into the world;

4 That through his atonement, and by obedience to the principles of the gospel, mankind might be saved.
D&C 138: 3-4

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the boath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deut: 7-8

Which is one reason the Mormon church is not recognized by most Christians as a branch of Christianity.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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12/30/2011 4:14:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@Tyler

I'd look to point out I have a dear friend who is Mormon. Because of them, I've done a lot of reading about Mormonism. A lot of it makes a bit more sense than other Christian branches. However, I can't find myself attributing it credit with the whole "Jews came to America" thing. Sorry.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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12/30/2011 4:15:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
read the book 90 minutes in heavan
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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12/30/2011 4:17:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:15:49 PM, 16kadams wrote:
read the book 90 minutes in heavan

This explains why no one has experienced Hell, because...?
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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12/30/2011 4:23:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@Torres,
This is again where you do not look to mainstream Christianity.

Mainstream Christianity has always believe the overwhelming majority of people will go to an intermediate state/purgatory/abraham's bosom. This state is where everyone, including your family is held and governed by Angels.

Hell does not exist yet and will not until after the world is judged as a whole.

This concept completely supports the reality of Christianity not the opposite.

Very few people will wind up in the abyss awaiting hell.

Hopefully this addresses your concern.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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12/30/2011 4:25:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Which is one reason the Mormon church is not recognized by most Christians as a branch of Christianity.

I am not going to hijack this thread, so I will say two quick things.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints = followers of Jesus Christ

Followers of Jesus Christ = Christian

Therefore

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a Christian church

When did Jesus say men decide who are his followers?

I also want to mention we are a restored church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is restored from when Christ walked this earth, as in it follows Jesus Christs teachings more then any church.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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12/30/2011 4:26:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:17:17 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 12/30/2011 4:15:49 PM, 16kadams wrote:
read the book 90 minutes in heavan

This explains why no one has experienced Hell, because...?

another book has that read it at my church. A guy at a hospital dies and woke somehow and said help me I am in hell then he kept dying and coming back and he kept saying he was going to hell and to get a priest
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/30/2011 4:31:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:05:19 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Here is one reason I strongly doubt in an actual Hell. Which has its own implications on religion (their validity, etc) as a result.

Okay, recently I watched a video where a young man told his story of near death experiences (he recently passed away after his third encounter with it). He basically discusses a white light, being in a white room, and an incredible peace he could not describe. He said this made him believe in God and Angels.

But I have to ask: where are the near-death experiences with Hell? I'm sure we could find and discuss thousands of people who will recount near-death experiences with white lights, heaven, family waiting for you, etc etc. All the time they're always positive and point out that if there IS an afterlife, it's a good one.

But again: where are the ones who almost when to Hell? I haven't seen anyone be, "I almost died, and when I did, it was HOT and HORRIBLE and I NEVER WANT TO GO BACK." I haven't seen any. Maybe that's lack on my part. But from my understanding, there are not any cases of someone saying they met Satan, or devils, or eternal punishment - even if just for a brief moment before CPR brought them back.

So... why is that?

I saw a video recently of someone who claimed to have died, gone to hell, then pleaded to be given a second chance and came back to life. I'll try to find it but it won't be in my history since I wasn't using this lap top.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
16kadams
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12/30/2011 4:31:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:14:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
@Tyler

I'd look to point out I have a dear friend who is Mormon. Because of them, I've done a lot of reading about Mormonism. A lot of it makes a bit more sense than other Christian branches. However, I can't find myself attributing it credit with the whole "Jews came to America" thing. Sorry.

lol so alien planets giving 10% of your money away to the church (sometimes polygamy), being opposed to gay marriage, good in my opinon but many are for it, etc. Also how the H3ll did the guy lose a gold book I would have protected that thing with my life. Also how did he remember every word?

here are 10 odd Morman belifs: http://listverse.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
M.Torres
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12/30/2011 4:37:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:31:56 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/30/2011 4:14:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
@Tyler

I'd look to point out I have a dear friend who is Mormon. Because of them, I've done a lot of reading about Mormonism. A lot of it makes a bit more sense than other Christian branches. However, I can't find myself attributing it credit with the whole "Jews came to America" thing. Sorry.

lol so alien planets giving 10% of your money away to the church (sometimes polygamy), being opposed to gay marriage, good in my opinon but many are for it, etc. Also how the H3ll did the guy lose a gold book I would have protected that thing with my life. Also how did he remember every word?

A lot of claims you made are not any crazy than other Christian branches. Come on. Do you not realize how ridiculous it is for one Theist to claim another Theist isn't Theist enough?


here are 10 odd Morman belifs: http://listverse.com...

All of these only use out of scripture context. You could make ANY religion look ridiculous with the same tactic.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
16kadams
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12/30/2011 4:42:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:37:26 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 12/30/2011 4:31:56 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/30/2011 4:14:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
@Tyler

I'd look to point out I have a dear friend who is Mormon. Because of them, I've done a lot of reading about Mormonism. A lot of it makes a bit more sense than other Christian branches. However, I can't find myself attributing it credit with the whole "Jews came to America" thing. Sorry.

lol so alien planets giving 10% of your money away to the church (sometimes polygamy), being opposed to gay marriage, good in my opinon but many are for it, etc. Also how the H3ll did the guy lose a gold book I would have protected that thing with my life. Also how did he remember every word?

A lot of claims you made are not any crazy than other Christian branches. Come on. Do you not realize how ridiculous it is for one Theist to claim another Theist isn't Theist enough?


here are 10 odd Morman belifs: http://listverse.com...

All of these only use out of scripture context. You could make ANY religion look ridiculous with the same tactic.

you can but name 10 normal christian ones. Also those belifs are used according to a morman I know
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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12/30/2011 4:48:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:42:44 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/30/2011 4:37:26 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 12/30/2011 4:31:56 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/30/2011 4:14:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
@Tyler

I'd look to point out I have a dear friend who is Mormon. Because of them, I've done a lot of reading about Mormonism. A lot of it makes a bit more sense than other Christian branches. However, I can't find myself attributing it credit with the whole "Jews came to America" thing. Sorry.

lol so alien planets giving 10% of your money away to the church (sometimes polygamy), being opposed to gay marriage, good in my opinon but many are for it, etc. Also how the H3ll did the guy lose a gold book I would have protected that thing with my life. Also how did he remember every word?

A lot of claims you made are not any crazy than other Christian branches. Come on. Do you not realize how ridiculous it is for one Theist to claim another Theist isn't Theist enough?


here are 10 odd Morman belifs: http://listverse.com...

All of these only use out of scripture context. You could make ANY religion look ridiculous with the same tactic.

you can but name 10 normal christian ones. Also those belifs are used according to a morman I know

I'll respond to those in a new thread, just give me time. A few are not true at all and most are explained horribly wrong. It is clear the creator them knows nothing about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
popculturepooka
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12/30/2011 5:09:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
maybe you're just not in the right circles because i've heard of a lot of nde hell experiences.
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RoyLatham
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12/30/2011 6:53:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Near death experiences often feature a tunnel with a bright light, but there are a great variety of out-of-body and other experiences. There is a Wikipedia articles that gives a rundown http://en.wikipedia.org.... Surveys show that somewhere between 4% and 15% of the population have had near-death experiences.

I had a near death experience from a serious illness. It was extremely realistic, including sounds and odors and even reading a magazine. The magazine had ads for British products. In the hallucination, I ended up inside an automatic dishwasher as a disembodied observer. Well, I think it was an hallucination. Maybe purgatory is a kitchen in England.

On theory "states that out-of-body experiences, accompanied by NDEs, are an attempt by the brain to create a mental overview of the situation and the surrounding world. The brain then transforms the input from sense organs and stored experience (knowledge) into a dream-like idea about oneself and the surrounding area." The brain is doing the best it can with faulty sensory data.

The theory is consistent with Christians seeing angels and devils. A guess for my hallucination is that there was some hospital disinfectant that smelled like dishwasher detergent that served as a trigger.

With an aging population and modern medical technology snatching people back from death, near-death experiences will likely become more common.
ConservativePolitico
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12/30/2011 7:11:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
We don't believe that anyone goes to Hell until the Final Judgement and in the mean time you wait for Judgement in a restful place called paradise. That would explain this phenomena.

You are not cast into hell until judged at the End.
OberHerr
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12/30/2011 7:45:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've had a near-death experience, when I was about six. I nearly drowned in my aunt and uncle's pool, but my dad managed to force the water out of me before I died. What happened in between for me was sorta like I saw myself puking blue water up. It was strange. I was so shaken I didn't want McDonalds, which if you had know me back then was VERY shaken.
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Gileandos
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12/30/2011 7:55:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 6:53:25 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Near death experiences often feature a tunnel with a bright light, but there are a great variety of out-of-body and other experiences. There is a Wikipedia articles that gives a rundown http://en.wikipedia.org.... Surveys show that somewhere between 4% and 15% of the population have had near-death experiences.

I had a near death experience from a serious illness. It was extremely realistic, including sounds and odors and even reading a magazine. The magazine had ads for British products. In the hallucination, I ended up inside an automatic dishwasher as a disembodied observer. Well, I think it was an hallucination. Maybe purgatory is a kitchen in England.

On theory "states that out-of-body experiences, accompanied by NDEs, are an attempt by the brain to create a mental overview of the situation and the surrounding world. The brain then transforms the input from sense organs and stored experience (knowledge) into a dream-like idea about oneself and the surrounding area." The brain is doing the best it can with faulty sensory data.

The theory is consistent with Christians seeing angels and devils. A guess for my hallucination is that there was some hospital disinfectant that smelled like dishwasher detergent that served as a trigger.

With an aging population and modern medical technology snatching people back from death, near-death experiences will likely become more common.

This is curious.
As the consistent interpretation of the people who have experienced post-death experiences was light, tunnel and seeing family and feelings of peace etc...

Was your experience where you actually died or where you had an illness that caused hallucinations?

Do you mind describing the event in more detail?

I find it interesting that a devout atheist would have a divergent experiential claim.