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Jesus as a communist

mrbusy
Posts: 29
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1/10/2012 1:02:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
When I study Lenin and dear leader Kim, I can't think of them apart from Jesus. Because Jesus was the first communist in history. I don't have religion, but I regard him as first communist in written history. The more I read about him thru bible, the more he is like dear leader Kim. In that I believe christians and communists share same ground.
Physik
Posts: 686
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1/10/2012 2:41:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 1:02:23 AM, mrbusy wrote:
When I study Lenin and dear leader Kim, I can't think of them apart from Jesus. Because Jesus was the first communist in history. I don't have religion, but I regard him as first communist in written history. The more I read about him thru bible, the more he is like dear leader Kim. In that I believe christians and communists share same ground.

Acts 4:31-37
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2012 7:43:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 1:02:23 AM, mrbusy wrote:
When I study Lenin and dear leader Kim, I can't think of them apart from Jesus. Because Jesus was the first communist in history. I don't have religion, but I regard him as first communist in written history. The more I read about him thru bible, the more he is like dear leader Kim. In that I believe christians and communists share same ground.

"Dear leader Kim" is not a communist.

Having everyone worship you as the supreme leader of the universe and creating a dynasty means that you are above everyone else. In communism, everyone is equal.

Also, the statement that Jesus was a communist is a bit ignorant because he has nothing to do with the economic theories of Marx.
mrbusy
Posts: 29
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1/10/2012 8:03:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Having everyone worship you as the supreme leader of the universe and creating a dynasty means that you are above everyone else. In communism, everyone is equal.

It is not the leader who makes people to worship, but people wants him to lead. The decision isn't made by leader but by people's collective will. you can call whatever name is, but being a leader in such a country repeatedly ravaged by japanese and american imperialism for centrury is tremendous burden. People are showing respect to him.


Also, the statement that Jesus was a communist is a bit ignorant because he has nothing to do with the economic theories of Marx.

You're refering a Lenin-marxist. You don't have to know economic theories to be a communist in general. I think a good heart is sufficient.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2012 10:11:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 9:49:02 AM, Royaltee wrote:
Jesus didn't advocate theft.

Communism is not theft. What gives an individual the inherent right to seize communal resources and then sell it back to the community that it originally belonged to? Private property ownership is based on nothing but violence and theft.

Another religious conservative plagues this site.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2012 10:15:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 8:03:26 AM, mrbusy wrote:
Having everyone worship you as the supreme leader of the universe and creating a dynasty means that you are above everyone else. In communism, everyone is equal.

It is not the leader who makes people to worship, but people wants him to lead. The decision isn't made by leader but by people's collective will. you can call whatever name is, but being a leader in such a country repeatedly ravaged by japanese and american imperialism for centrury is tremendous burden. People are showing respect to him.

LMAO at this. Kim used violence to gain and secure his power and created a police regime that starves the common people in order to protect the army. At his funeral, the weeping was fake. Kim and other totalitarians who abuse the communist principles create a bad name for communists everywhere.

Also, the statement that Jesus was a communist is a bit ignorant because he has nothing to do with the economic theories of Marx.

You're refering a Lenin-marxist. You don't have to know economic theories to be a communist in general. I think a good heart is sufficient.

Have you read the Manifesto? Marx clearly advocates a specific economic theory. Prior to Marx, communism did not even exist (socialism did, but socialism is not equivalent to communism.)

I suggest you read the Communist Manifesto.
Royaltee
Posts: 114
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1/10/2012 10:15:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 10:11:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/10/2012 9:49:02 AM, Royaltee wrote:
Jesus didn't advocate theft.

Communism is not theft.

Private property must be stolen from its current owners for communism to exist.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/10/2012 11:11:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There is quite a difference between "happily paying taxes" and not placing any real value on money.

Also, whether or not Jesus was a "communist", the early Christian church was very communal. They were basically the hippies of their day.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2012 11:20:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 10:15:43 AM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/10/2012 10:11:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/10/2012 9:49:02 AM, Royaltee wrote:
Jesus didn't advocate theft.

Communism is not theft.

Private property must be stolen from its current owners for communism to exist.

Property that was stolen does not ever "belong" to the thief.

I reposted the rest of the post for your viewing pleasure.

What gives an individual the inherent right to seize communal resources and then sell it back to the community that it originally belonged to? Private property ownership is based on nothing but violence and theft.

Another religious conservative plagues this site.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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1/10/2012 11:24:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Jesus didn't have any political affiliation. He was concerned with matters of the spirit and not worldly matters. Yes the early Christian community was every communal but that doesn't mean Jesus advocated Communism
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2012 11:28:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 11:24:06 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Jesus didn't have any political affiliation. He was concerned with matters of the spirit and not worldly matters. Yes the early Christian community was every communal but that doesn't mean Jesus advocated Communism

This is very true.

It should also be noted that he advocated dissociation from political life and that he was not a free-market capitalist.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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1/10/2012 12:01:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 10:15:43 AM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/10/2012 10:11:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/10/2012 9:49:02 AM, Royaltee wrote:
Jesus didn't advocate theft.

Communism is not theft.

Private property must be stolen from its current owners for communism to exist.

This.

Jesus advocated supporting your fellow believers while being contained within a corrupt and oppressive government.

This is different than creating a corrupt and oppressive government through theft.

America was founded on the Christian Ideal of Zero Governmental Oppression.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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1/10/2012 12:23:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 10:11:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/10/2012 9:49:02 AM, Royaltee wrote:
Jesus didn't advocate theft.

Communism is not theft. What gives an individual the inherent right to seize communal resources
Simple. They aren't communal. The homesteading principle provides an adequate justification for property, beyond that of basic economic truth that things function much much better with property than without.

and then sell it back to the community that it originally belonged to? Private property ownership is based on nothing but violence and theft.

This seems inconsistent, people can own things, but only as part of a group? Who decides how large the group is, who it includes (ie, surely it can't just belong to humans). If we can decide ourselves, I, and nearly everyone else would choose a group of one (or possibly their immediate family in the case of parents) and we have private property again.

Another religious conservative plagues this site.

Oh leave her alone. Royaltee is no where near as bad as people make out. (but then again I was quite fond of Sieben too, make what you will of that)
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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1/10/2012 12:25:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyway Jesus believed that one should be willing to give their stuff to the poor, not that they had to. Jesus certainly believed in private property. In fact property is a very common motif throughout the bible - ownership of sin, land, sacrifice etc.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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1/10/2012 12:46:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 12:25:39 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Anyway Jesus believed that one should be willing to give their stuff to the poor, not that they had to. Jesus certainly believed in private property. In fact property is a very common motif throughout the bible - ownership of sin, land, sacrifice etc.

Correct
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/10/2012 3:22:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 12:25:39 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Anyway Jesus believed that one should be willing to give their stuff to the poor, not that they had to. Jesus certainly believed in private property. In fact property is a very common motif throughout the bible - ownership of sin, land, sacrifice etc.
Christians would have the obligation to pay a religious tax. If they refused even by being capable of paying the tax, they would be exempt from the state laws.
mrbusy
Posts: 29
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1/10/2012 4:00:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Actually following Kim as a deity doesn't contravene any of communism theory just like believing Jesus as a deity doesn't contradict any of christian belief. it is not unprecedent.

http://youtu.be...

Juche(Chuch'e) means self-reliance in all aspects of society. Located in strategically important peninsular and depraved of every opportunity of progress by repeated imperial invasions and continued teacherous american sanctions, Dear leader had suggested the theory for its people. the mourning for the leader isn't faked at all, except those who has liberal thoughts.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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1/10/2012 4:00:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 3:22:26 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/10/2012 12:25:39 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Anyway Jesus believed that one should be willing to give their stuff to the poor, not that they had to. Jesus certainly believed in private property. In fact property is a very common motif throughout the bible - ownership of sin, land, sacrifice etc.
Christians would have the obligation to pay a religious tax. If they refused even by being capable of paying the tax, they would be exempt from the state laws.

What?? Are you talking about how Christians have to pay a tax to their Islamic overlords for the pleasure of being allowed to live?

In America, religions are tax exempt not the other way around. Personal taxes are the only things that apply.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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1/10/2012 4:31:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 3:22:26 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/10/2012 12:25:39 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Anyway Jesus believed that one should be willing to give their stuff to the poor, not that they had to. Jesus certainly believed in private property. In fact property is a very common motif throughout the bible - ownership of sin, land, sacrifice etc.
Christians would have the obligation to pay a religious tax. If they refused even by being capable of paying the tax, they would be exempt from the state laws.

I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to in modern law, but this is false in a biblical context. There is nothing obliging christians to pay a religious tax.

Gileandos; your comment about christians paying islamic overlords to live was neither necessary or relevant. In the nicest way possible (I'm not very good at being nice, sorry) it would really help if you were less non-confrontational and aggressive.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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1/10/2012 4:36:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 4:31:00 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 1/10/2012 3:22:26 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/10/2012 12:25:39 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Anyway Jesus believed that one should be willing to give their stuff to the poor, not that they had to. Jesus certainly believed in private property. In fact property is a very common motif throughout the bible - ownership of sin, land, sacrifice etc.
Christians would have the obligation to pay a religious tax. If they refused even by being capable of paying the tax, they would be exempt from the state laws.

I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to in modern law, but this is false in a biblical context. There is nothing obliging christians to pay a religious tax.

Gileandos; your comment about christians paying islamic overlords to live was neither necessary or relevant. In the nicest way possible (I'm not very good at being nice, sorry) it would really help if you were less non-confrontational and aggressive.


Gileandos has a missionary impulse to educate the "uneducated" on this site.....
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/10/2012 4:44:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 4:36:00 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 1/10/2012 4:31:00 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 1/10/2012 3:22:26 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/10/2012 12:25:39 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Anyway Jesus believed that one should be willing to give their stuff to the poor, not that they had to. Jesus certainly believed in private property. In fact property is a very common motif throughout the bible - ownership of sin, land, sacrifice etc.
Christians would have the obligation to pay a religious tax. If they refused even by being capable of paying the tax, they would be exempt from the state laws.

I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to in modern law, but this is false in a biblical context. There is nothing obliging christians to pay a religious tax.

Gileandos; your comment about christians paying islamic overlords to live was neither necessary or relevant. In the nicest way possible (I'm not very good at being nice, sorry) it would really help if you were less non-confrontational and aggressive.


Gileandos has a missionary impulse to educate the "uneducated" on this site.....

Or correct this misinformed.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2012 5:06:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 4:00:04 PM, mrbusy wrote:
Actually following Kim as a deity doesn't contravene any of communism theory just like believing Jesus as a deity doesn't contradict any of christian belief. it is not unprecedent.

http://youtu.be...

Juche(Chuch'e) means self-reliance in all aspects of society. Located in strategically important peninsular and depraved of every opportunity of progress by repeated imperial invasions and continued teacherous american sanctions, Dear leader had suggested the theory for its people. the mourning for the leader isn't faked at all, except those who has liberal thoughts.

"Dear leader" was NOT a communist. Marxism advocates the abolition of the state and the creation of a voluntary collectivist society (in essence, a participatory democracy with absolute equality.) Your leader used communist language to fool the masses into allowing his rise to power.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/10/2012 7:30:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What a stunning reply, Gileandos. My arguments are completely refuted.

To those who are interested in an actual discussion and not red herrings, the Torah is not free of verses dealing with everyday lives of Jews (and Christians who care to follow the teachings). Jesus, peace be upon him, acknowledged the validity of the Torah, and he never ruled out any economic laws. Mosaic Law applied in a state would prohibit pre-determined interest, possibly use the flat tax system, and so on. There are various documents on this, and to just smash into this thread and babble "Oh but you're wrong, Jesus was neutral!" isn't very good.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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1/10/2012 7:36:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 1:02:23 AM, mrbusy wrote:
When I study Lenin and dear leader Kim, I can't think of them apart from Jesus. Because Jesus was the first communist in history. I don't have religion,

Welcome to apatheism, comrade! (PS, I'm not communist, LOL)

but I regard him as first communist in written history. The more I read about him thru bible, the more he is like dear leader Kim. In that I believe christians and communists share same ground.

I think you have a point, though there are clear differences. I know Jesus said that--and I am paraphrasing--one, to be a true disciple of God, one needs to give up one's belongings and go spread the gospel. Communism just gives up possessions to the state.
mrbusy
Posts: 29
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1/10/2012 9:28:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 5:06:32 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
"Dear leader" was NOT a communist. Marxism advocates the abolition of the state and the creation of a voluntary collectivist society (in essence, a participatory democracy with absolute equality.) Your leader used communist language to fool the masses into allowing his rise to power.

What kind of power are you refering to? He - 3rd Kim - is courageously taking the cross for the people just like Jesus did. Do you know what it is like to lead a country with the US economic sanctions more than for half centuries and theatened consistently? You liberals think millions of people are fools brainwashed by a 'dictator'? It is courageous and herioic deeds to lead the people and stand against 1st world power. Communism can take various forms due to its unique historical course. Juche is peaceful way of living under the guidance of great leader, no invasion of countries for resources, no meddling about international relations with power between otherwise cooperative nations, without dependence of 'globalized economy' which necessarily imprisons people more than any other ideologies in human history.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/10/2012 10:32:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 9:28:05 PM, mrbusy wrote:
At 1/10/2012 5:06:32 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
"Dear leader" was NOT a communist. Marxism advocates the abolition of the state and the creation of a voluntary collectivist society (in essence, a participatory democracy with absolute equality.) Your leader used communist language to fool the masses into allowing his rise to power.

What kind of power are you refering to? He - 3rd Kim - is courageously taking the cross for the people just like Jesus did. Do you know what it is like to lead a country with the US economic sanctions more than for half centuries and theatened consistently? You liberals think millions of people are fools brainwashed by a 'dictator'? It is courageous and herioic deeds to lead the people and stand against 1st world power. Communism can take various forms due to its unique historical course. Juche is peaceful way of living under the guidance of great leader, no invasion of countries for resources, no meddling about international relations with power between otherwise cooperative nations, without dependence of 'globalized economy' which necessarily imprisons people more than any other ideologies in human history.

Man, I really hope your joking. I truly do.
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/10/2012 10:38:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
so why was jesus anti goverment? And anti goverment donations, only private ones. He was fairly moderate as he had a few liberal views too.
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DATCMOTO
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1/11/2012 9:38:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 1:02:23 AM, mrbusy wrote:
When I study Lenin and dear leader Kim, I can't think of them apart from Jesus. Because Jesus was the first communist in history. I don't have religion, but I regard him as first communist in written history. The more I read about him thru bible, the more he is like dear leader Kim. In that I believe christians and communists share same ground.

Christianity is the very opposite of communism/socialism/equality etc as He teaches that the strong (God, Jews, Christians, men etc) must serve the weaker. (men, Gentiles, unbelievers, women etc)
The Cross.. the Cross.