Total Posts:43|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

For Mormons..

DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2012 5:33:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
John1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God.

And from the book of mormon:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A god.

Mormonism is an heretical cult that denies Christ's status as the Fathers ONLY begotten Son.
The Cross.. the Cross.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2012 12:55:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/11/2012 5:33:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
John1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God.

And from the book of mormon:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A god.

Mormonism is an heretical cult that denies Christ's status as the Fathers ONLY begotten Son.

You can't just say something without proving it. Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that?
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2012 1:01:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/12/2012 12:55:00 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 1/11/2012 5:33:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
John1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God.

And from the book of mormon:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A god.

Mormonism is an heretical cult that denies Christ's status as the Fathers ONLY begotten Son.

You can't just say something without proving it. Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that?

lol

Nice post, tyler.

More evangelical trolling. You definitely called the moron's bluff.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/15/2012 3:38:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/12/2012 12:55:00 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 1/11/2012 5:33:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
John1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God.

And from the book of mormon:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A god.

Mormonism is an heretical cult that denies Christ's status as the Fathers ONLY begotten Son.

You can't just say something without proving it. Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that?

Er.. In John 1:1.. Obviously..
The Cross.. the Cross.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/15/2012 10:22:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 3:38:42 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 1/12/2012 12:55:00 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 1/11/2012 5:33:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
John1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God.

And from the book of mormon:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A god.

Mormonism is an heretical cult that denies Christ's status as the Fathers ONLY begotten Son.

You can't just say something without proving it. Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that?

Er.. In John 1:1.. Obviously..

please stop embarrassing our kind, He meant whats the verse from the book of Mormon that shows what you put in bold here is from it.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2012 5:03:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 10:22:59 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 1/15/2012 3:38:42 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 1/12/2012 12:55:00 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 1/11/2012 5:33:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
John1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God.

And from the book of mormon:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A god.

Mormonism is an heretical cult that denies Christ's status as the Fathers ONLY begotten Son.

You can't just say something without proving it. Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that?

Er.. In John 1:1.. Obviously..

please stop embarrassing our kind, He meant whats the verse from the book of Mormon that shows what you put in bold here is from it.
The Cross.. the Cross.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2012 6:59:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Smith-1970 LDS claims it is NOT Christian
circa 1970....ooops we wannabe Christian

Smith, Young, et al Polygamy is a command from heavenly father
ooops....heavenly father lied

Satan and Jesus are brothers....Doctrine and Covenants
Celestial Marriage is polygamous, Prophets and apostles of LDS
Joe Smith opposed free speech, was a convicted felon, and a consummate adulterer
B. Young employed Murder Squads, see Blood Atonement

No one can be both Christian and Mormon...unless they are a hypocrite of the first order.
lotus_flower
Posts: 454
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2012 8:07:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/12/2012 12:55:00 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 1/11/2012 5:33:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
John1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God.

And from the book of mormon:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A god.

Mormonism is an heretical cult that denies Christ's status as the Fathers ONLY begotten Son.

You can't just say something without proving it. Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that?

Lol Tyler he's a troll
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
- Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
*******************************************************
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2012 8:28:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/11/2012 5:33:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
John1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God.

And from the book of mormon:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A god.

Mormonism is an heretical cult that denies Christ's status as the Fathers ONLY begotten Son.

John isn't a book in the Book of Mormon... what are you talking about?

http://www.google.com...

There are no search results for that phrase on the official Mormon website.

Interestingly, there are discussions about that translation on non-Mormon websites such as this: http://www.greeklatinaudio.com... (A good read, btw).

Lastly, Mormons say on their website that Christ is the only begotten Son, so how are they denying that? http://mormon.org...
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2012 8:30:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/16/2012 8:29:40 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
People, stop feeding the troll.

He ran away after getting slaughtered by tyler.

DATCOMO is finished. Bye, troll!
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 2:08:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/16/2012 6:59:03 AM, logicrules wrote:
Smith-1970 LDS claims it is NOT Christian
circa 1970....ooops we wannabe Christian

Smith, Young, et al Polygamy is a command from heavenly father
ooops....heavenly father lied

Satan and Jesus are brothers....Doctrine and Covenants
Celestial Marriage is polygamous, Prophets and apostles of LDS
Joe Smith opposed free speech, was a convicted felon, and a consummate adulterer
B. Young employed Murder Squads, see Blood Atonement

No one can be both Christian and Mormon...unless they are a hypocrite of the first order.

awesome
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Depending on how you answer the question is whether or not you see Mormons as Christians-
If a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, Mormons are Christians...
If accepting Jesus Christ into your heart and acknowledging that he is the son of the Father, Mormons are Christian...
If it is living a godly life, Mormons are Christians...

I see Mormons as Christians.

You seem to be countering the argument with a flawed premise.
The bible was put together by men, and men excluded many things form the book.
Then Martin Luther took things out.
Constantine defined Jesus.

The book of John was one of the last Gospels written to Jewish Christians, and we still do not know that John wrote it.

Mormons believe the bible to be the word of God and the Book of Mormon to be a further revelation from God. Who are you to deny the revelation to Joseph Smith? Was not the myth of Moses a revelation?

The fact of the matter lies in the way you define Christians.

By most definitions of the word, Mormons are Christians.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 3:05:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/16/2012 6:59:03 AM, logicrules wrote:
Smith-1970 LDS claims it is NOT Christian
circa 1970....ooops we wannabe Christian

When did LDS claim they weren't Christian? Do you have anything to back up that claim?

Smith, Young, et al Polygamy is a command from heavenly father
ooops....heavenly father lied

They never said Heavenly Father lied. They said it was better to obey the laws of the land rather than what would have happened otherwise. <sarcasm>It's not like God ever commanded a man to have more than one wife in the Bible</sarcasm>.

Satan and Jesus are brothers....Doctrine and Covenants

All of God's children are brothers and sisters. What's the problem with that?

Celestial Marriage is polygamous, Prophets and apostles of LDS

So?

Joe Smith opposed free speech, was a convicted felon, and a consummate adulterer

An awful lot of claims with no backup. Yes, JS was convicted by the same courts that allowed LDS members to be assaulted, tarred and feathered, houses burned, and *legally* driven from their homes, cities, and states, by government order.

B. Young employed Murder Squads, see Blood Atonement

I bet you can't find a single instance of that actually happening.

No one can be both Christian and Mormon...unless they are a hypocrite of the first order.

A Christian professes to believe in Christ. Mormons profess to believe in Christ. Therefore, Mormons are Christians.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Depending on how you answer the question is whether or not you see Mormons as Christians-
If a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, Mormons are Christians...
If accepting Jesus Christ into your heart and acknowledging that he is the son of the Father, Mormons are Christian...
If it is living a godly life, Mormons are Christians...

I see Mormons as Christians.

You seem to be countering the argument with a flawed premise.
The bible was put together by men, and men excluded many things form the book.
Then Martin Luther took things out.
Constantine defined Jesus.

The book of John was one of the last Gospels written to Jewish Christians, and we still do not know that John wrote it.

Mormons believe the bible to be the word of God and the Book of Mormon to be a further revelation from God. Who are you to deny the revelation to Joseph Smith? Was not the myth of Moses a revelation?

The fact of the matter lies in the way you define Christians.

By most definitions of the word, Mormons are Christians.

http://carm.org...

I think you are totally right when it comes to defining the definition of what a Christian is. But who is to define it? You? Me? Webster? The Bible? Church history? I believe the latter two certainly have more weight when it comes to defining its followers. Historically the catholic (universal not denomination) church has believed in the deity of Christ and the pre-existence of Christ. Both of which Mormon doctrine denies. Theologically they believe in a different Jesus. Does this make them a Christian? I think not and the majority of church history would agree with me. Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 3:48:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...

Chris·tian (krschn)
adj.
1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

So which Jesus do Christians follow that determines they are Christian? The Jesus in the Book of Mormon (14.1 mil 2010)? Or the Jesus the other 2.3 billion "Christians" follow who have also considered the Mormons to not be Christian by doctrine?

There are many strikingly clear teachings that make the Jesus taught of the Mormon church radically different from the rest of Christianity. Read the article below please. I would like to hear your response. Please don't get hung up on how I phrase things. Its late, i'm at work and rushing :) I mean no offence to anyone.
http://carm.org...
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 3:56:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

I knew I remember reading that somewhere. Not ignorance, just forgetful. Its not that they call the Christians, its that they don't follow the Christ of the Bible. For a comparison: http://carm.org...
and
http://carm.org...
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:11:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 3:48:26 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...

Chris·tian (krschn)
adj.
1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

Mormons believe in Jesus' teachings in the NT. So, that fits.

2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.

Again, it fits.

3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.

Mormons are huge proponents of Christlike attributes... they focus on them in all their teachings. Fits.

4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.

This depends on the definition of Christian, which we have seen fits.

5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

LDS have tremendous amounts of humanitarian efforts. Fits.

n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

Fits

2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

Fits

So which Jesus do Christians follow that determines they are Christian? The Jesus in the Book of Mormon (14.1 mil 2010)? Or the Jesus the other 2.3 billion "Christians" follow who have also considered the Mormons to not be Christian by doctrine?

They believe in the NT Jesus, as well as the teachings of the BoM Jesus. They aren't mutually exclusive.

There are many strikingly clear teachings that make the Jesus taught of the Mormon church radically different from the rest of Christianity. Read the article below please. I would like to hear your response. Please don't get hung up on how I phrase things. Its late, i'm at work and rushing :) I mean no offence to anyone.
http://carm.org...

All of these are issues of interpretation. It is easy to get confused trying to interpret the meaning behind scriptures. Some things are literal, some are allegorical, some are simply symbolic. Some scriptures contradict each other, etc... I don't think anyone can truly say that there is only one way to interpret the Bible.

For instance, the Trinity. This site states "Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God"

And on the page about Trinity, it states "The Father is not the same person as the Son, who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit, who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God."

So, Mormons are denounced for saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three distinct personages, but together make up 'God', while at the same time teaching that the true trinity is three distinct persons, are one God. There's not really that much difference between the two schools of thought, and to condemn Mormons for their belief is extremely hypocritical.

God vs. god. Mormons only believe in one God. They believe there are other gods, but only one God. Just like you only have one Father(biological parent) even though there are many fathers on the planet. Mormons DO NOT teach that there are many Gods, they only worship one God.

This kind of argument can be boiled down to 'I don't agree with your interpretation of what Christ said, so you aren't a true follower of Christ, therefore you aren't a Christian.'. That's the message behind anyone saying Mormons aren't Christians. I see nothing but pride in that argument, as you assume that not only are you the one who is correct, but that you are the one who can decide how incorrect someone else can be while still being a Christian.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
tyler90az
Posts: 971
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:12:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 3:56:44 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

I knew I remember reading that somewhere. Not ignorance, just forgetful. Its not that they call the Christians, its that they don't follow the Christ of the Bible. For a comparison: http://carm.org...
and
http://carm.org...

He was simply saying that we have a more revealed form of Christ. How is that any different from other Christian church? Do not other Christian churches also have differing doctrine? How can you say we are the only one who views Christ differently, when every Christian denomination views him differently? If every other Christian denomination in the world had exactly the same doctrine, then your argument may hold ground. However, your argument is fail logic, since every Christian denomination has different views on Jesus.

A few big differences between many denominations:

Grace Vs Works

Mode of Baptism

Tongues

How to pray

Hierarchy Structure

Age of Baptism

How to be saved

Interpretation of Bible

Revelation or no revelation

Etc.

Etc.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:13:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 3:56:44 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

I knew I remember reading that somewhere. Not ignorance, just forgetful. Its not that they call the Christians, its that they don't follow the Christ of the Bible. For a comparison: http://carm.org...
and
http://carm.org...

You're misreading it. He isn't saying they don't believe in the Christ of the bible, but they don't believe in the 'traditional' Christ. Aka the idea of Christ as put forward by the Catholic Church. They believe the Catholics got it wrong.

All you are doing is putting words in Hinckley's mouth.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:18:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 4:13:56 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:56:44 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

I knew I remember reading that somewhere. Not ignorance, just forgetful. Its not that they call the Christians, its that they don't follow the Christ of the Bible. For a comparison: http://carm.org...
and
http://carm.org...

You're misreading it. He isn't saying they don't believe in the Christ of the bible, but they don't believe in the 'traditional' Christ. Aka the idea of Christ as put forward by the Catholic Church. They believe the Catholics got it wrong.

All you are doing is putting words in Hinckley's mouth.

The Catholic (denomination or universal) Jesus IS the traditional Jesus. Traditionally Catholics believe the same Jesus Protestants do. Its Mormons who believe in a radically different Jesus.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:23:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Catholic (denomination or universal) Jesus IS the traditional Jesus. Traditionally Catholics believe the same Jesus Protestants do. Its Mormons who believe in a radically different Jesus.

He was simply saying that we have a more revealed form of Christ. How is that any different from other Christian church? Do not other Christian churches also have differing doctrine? How can you say we are the only one who views Christ differently, when every Christian denomination views him differently? If every other Christian denomination in the world had exactly the same doctrine, then your argument may hold ground. However, your argument is fail logic, since every Christian denomination has different views on Jesus.

A few big differences between many denominations:

Grace Vs Works

Mode of Baptism

Tongues

How to pray

Hierarchy Structure

Age of Baptism

How to be saved

Interpretation of Bible

Revelation or no revelation

Etc.

Etc.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tyler90az
Posts: 971
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:24:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The thing that unites all Christian denominations is that we are followers of Jesus Christ.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:26:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 4:18:11 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 4:13:56 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:56:44 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

I knew I remember reading that somewhere. Not ignorance, just forgetful. Its not that they call the Christians, its that they don't follow the Christ of the Bible. For a comparison: http://carm.org...
and
http://carm.org...

You're misreading it. He isn't saying they don't believe in the Christ of the bible, but they don't believe in the 'traditional' Christ. Aka the idea of Christ as put forward by the Catholic Church. They believe the Catholics got it wrong.

All you are doing is putting words in Hinckley's mouth.

The Catholic (denomination or universal) Jesus IS the traditional Jesus. Traditionally Catholics believe the same Jesus Protestants do. Its Mormons who believe in a radically different Jesus.

Listen. The Traditional Jesus, as taught by the Catholics, isn't necessarily the same as the Biblical Jesus. Mormons claim they believe in the biblical Jesus, which is different from the Traditional Jesus. Even if they are wrong, they are trying to follow the Biblical Jesus, so what's the problem?

You think everyone has to believe in Christ, as taught originally by the Catholics(not the bible! Notice that problem?), to be Christian.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:28:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 4:24:56 PM, tyler90az wrote:
The thing that unites all Christian denominations is that we are followers of Jesus Christ.

Well, it should be what unites all Christians, but some people aren't as accepting as others. Luckily, it doesn't matter to God what others think of you, it matters more what you think of others.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
tyler90az
Posts: 971
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:32:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 4:28:19 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 4:24:56 PM, tyler90az wrote:
The thing that unites all Christian denominations is that we are followers of Jesus Christ.


Well, it should be what unites all Christians, but some people aren't as accepting as others. Luckily, it doesn't matter to God what others think of you, it matters more what you think of others

Yea, I mistyped, it should be whats unites us, however, does not. If people would just realize all Christian denominations, even most religions, have more in common then differences; we could work together and make society a better place. It is important to point out that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, seeks to work with other Christians, not create a divide.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:49:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Depending on how you answer the question is whether or not you see Mormons as Christians-
If a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, Mormons are Christians...
If accepting Jesus Christ into your heart and acknowledging that he is the son of the Father, Mormons are Christian...
If it is living a godly life, Mormons are Christians...

I see Mormons as Christians.

You seem to be countering the argument with a flawed premise.
The bible was put together by men, and men excluded many things form the book.
Then Martin Luther took things out.
Constantine defined Jesus.

The book of John was one of the last Gospels written to Jewish Christians, and we still do not know that John wrote it.

Mormons believe the bible to be the word of God and the Book of Mormon to be a further revelation from God. Who are you to deny the revelation to Joseph Smith? Was not the myth of Moses a revelation?

The fact of the matter lies in the way you define Christians.

By most definitions of the word, Mormons are Christians.

http://carm.org...

I think you are totally right when it comes to defining the definition of what a Christian is. But who is to define it? You? Me? Webster? The Bible? Church history? I believe the latter two certainly have more weight when it comes to defining its followers. Historically the catholic (universal not denomination) church has believed in the deity of Christ and the pre-existence of Christ.

I agree with most of it but the deity is not denied in Mormonism-
"We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost."
"We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
"We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."

These come from the Articles of Faith- Mormon beliefs

Both of which Mormon doctrine denies. Theologically they believe in a different Jesus. Does this make them a Christian? I think not and the majority of church history would agree with me. Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:51:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 3:31:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/18/2012 3:22:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/18/2012 2:46:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
The question is-

What defines a Christian?

Dictionaries are good places to get definitions. The reason is that they look at how words are most commonly used in speech and text. A Christian is a follower of Christ, just look it up.


Then Mormons are Christians. They follow Christ, the one of the Gospels.

Many Christians try to exclude others from that group because they don't agree with them... I just consider that pride, and a very un-Christian thing to do.

As for this:

Plus, I don't think even Mormons consider them selves Christian.


They do.

That's just ignorance. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and you don't think they consider themselves Christian?


Yes.

Here's just one article from their website that explains how they do consider themselves Christians.

http://lds.org...
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2012 4:55:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Mormons believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and rose on the third day. They believe that there would be no salvation without his atonement. They believe Christ will return to earth to reign and rule.