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Searching for the first genuine christian?

Composer
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1/22/2012 6:05:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For 50 years I have been personally seeking a genuine christian outside of Story book bible land that is legitimately capable of passing the Story book tests and manifesting ALL the requirements and promises ' already a given ' in their (allegedly) preferred Story book bible?

To commence their candidature I would ask they please answer the following honestly!

1. Who/what told you that you are a genuine and legitimate believer? (Your evidence is?)
2. Do you believe we have a " Free-Will? " (Your evidence is?)
3. Do you still sin since claiming to have embraced/come to know this Story book jesus?

Thank you!
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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1/22/2012 6:09:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/22/2012 6:05:50 PM, Composer wrote:
For 50 years I have been personally seeking a genuine christian outside of Story book bible land that is legitimately capable of passing the Story book tests and manifesting ALL the requirements and promises ' already a given ' in their (allegedly) preferred Story book bible?

To commence their candidature I would ask they please answer the following honestly!

1. Who/what told you that you are a genuine and legitimate believer? (Your evidence is?)
2. Do you believe we have a " Free-Will? " (Your evidence is?)
3. Do you still sin since claiming to have embraced/come to know this Story book jesus?

Thank you!

Free will is a non issue. I'm surprised people still use it as an argument.
Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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1/22/2012 6:22:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I smell izbo10!
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Buckethead31594
Posts: 363
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1/22/2012 6:33:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/22/2012 6:22:22 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I smell izbo10!

...No way, is he back?
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." - Socrates
Mr.Infidel
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1/22/2012 6:34:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/22/2012 6:33:32 PM, Buckethead31594 wrote:
At 1/22/2012 6:22:22 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
I smell izbo10!

...No way, is he back?

Check your inbox
Please donate to the following ENDANGERED SPECIES!
Preciousness of life.
Family structure.
Family values. 

Disarm a liberal. Vote for values.

Opinions of this signature are those of G-d's and any of His affiliates.
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/22/2012 6:05:50 PM, Composer wrote:
For 50 years I have been personally seeking a genuine christian outside of Story book bible land that is legitimately capable of passing the Story book tests and manifesting ALL the requirements and promises ' already a given ' in their (allegedly) preferred Story book bible?

In 50 years of searching and you have never found a genuine Christian I would have to ask what are your requirements. The dictionary's primary use of the word as a noun is: a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity. So I suppose anyone who believes in Jesus Christ aught to be considered a genuine Christian. However, considering the many different denominations that have various doctrines that determine whether they consider anyone to be a genuine Christian I would have to ask what requirements are you "exactly" or "specifically" asking for?

To commence their candidature I would ask they please answer the following honestly!

1. Who/what told you that you are a genuine and legitimate believer? (Your evidence is?)

The dictionary; my denominations understanding of scripture

2. Do you believe we have a " Free-Will? " (Your evidence is?)

Depends on how you define it. Philosophically I am a Compatibilist. Theologically I am Calvinist. My evidence would be primarily scripture. As for Compatibilism I do not know of any evidence or even if it is falsifiable.

3. Do you still sin since claiming to have embraced/come to know this Story book jesus?

Yes

Thank you!
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2012 3:34:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's a genuine Christian: http://www.debate.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/23/2012 3:41:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nobody really believes in that stuff. If they aren't in denial, they are using it as a tool of manipulation.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Composer
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1/23/2012 3:55:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/22/2012 6:05:50 PM, Composer wrote:
For 50 years I have been personally seeking a genuine christian outside of Story book bible land that is legitimately capable of passing the Story book tests and manifesting ALL the requirements and promises ' already a given ' in their (allegedly) preferred Story book bible?

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote:
In 50 years of searching and you have never found a genuine Christian I would have to ask what are your requirements.
Me: As detailed in the Story book bible!

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote: The dictionary's primary use of the word as a noun is: a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity. So I suppose anyone who believes in Jesus Christ aught to be considered a genuine Christian. However, considering the many different denominations that have various doctrines that determine whether they consider anyone to be a genuine Christian I would have to ask what requirements are you "exactly" or "specifically" asking for?

Me: As detailed in the Story book bible!

To commence their candidature I would ask they please answer the following honestly!

1. Who/what told you that you are a genuine and legitimate believer? (Your evidence is?)

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote:: The dictionary; my denominations understanding of scripture

Me: So a small group of men told you in a Dictionary & those in your same group also told you?

Perhaps you could get them to contact me and be similarly tested to see IF they are what they also claim to be?

NB: See Oops! below proving they are also now proven frauds already before we could get even started with them directly!

2. Do you believe we have a " Free-Will? " (Your evidence is?)

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote:
Depends on how you define it. Philosophically I am a Compatibilist. Theologically I am Calvinist. My evidence would be primarily scripture. As for Compatibilism I do not know of any evidence or even if it is falsifiable.

Me: So your group doesn't know if you have a Free-Will or not but they know you are a genuine believer (apparently?)

3. Do you still sin since claiming to have embraced/come to know this Story book jesus?

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote: : Yes
Me: Oops!

Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him.< [1 John 3:6) NET Story book

&

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.< (1 John 3:6) KJV Story book

Hence, we can now be assured by your own admission (I do thank you for answering honestly) that you sin constantly (See my Ref #1: above), that whatever you now say about your religious ideology and jesus is spurious and you have never seen nor known your jesus legitimately and thereby I'm afraid according to your own preferred Story book bible and your own admission, your group are frauds also like you and obviously your entire group are illegitimate believers masquerading as angels of light (2 Cor. 11:14) KJV Story book

Next!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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1/23/2012 4:07:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 3:34:12 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Here's a genuine Christian: http://www.debate.org...

Me: Great! now please ask him to come here and demonstrate he is by my using the Story book bible itself to test him!
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/23/2012 4:41:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This topic would be full of potential to clarify misunderstandings, but I have the distinct feeling that it isn't going to go anywhere productive.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 3:55:35 AM, Composer wrote:
At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/22/2012 6:05:50 PM, Composer wrote:
For 50 years I have been personally seeking a genuine christian outside of Story book bible land that is legitimately capable of passing the Story book tests and manifesting ALL the requirements and promises ' already a given ' in their (allegedly) preferred Story book bible?

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote:
In 50 years of searching and you have never found a genuine Christian I would have to ask what are your requirements.
Me: As detailed in the Story book bible!

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote: The dictionary's primary use of the word as a noun is: a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity. So I suppose anyone who believes in Jesus Christ aught to be considered a genuine Christian. However, considering the many different denominations that have various doctrines that determine whether they consider anyone to be a genuine Christian I would have to ask what requirements are you "exactly" or "specifically" asking for?

Me: As detailed in the Story book bible!

The Bible had many different teachings that can be interpreted in many different ways. Its a matter of hermeneutics. Saying 'as detailed in the story book bible' is ambiguous and needs clarification.

To commence their candidature I would ask they please answer the following honestly!

1. Who/what told you that you are a genuine and legitimate believer? (Your evidence is?)

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote:: The dictionary; my denominations understanding of scripture

Me: So a small group of men told you in a Dictionary & those in your same group also told you?

(1) its not a small group, (2) they did not determine this from the dictionary but from scripture, (3) I mentioned the dictionary because its the only way we can determine what a Christian is objectively (or at least as objective as possible).

Perhaps you could get them to contact me and be similarly tested to see IF they are what they also claim to be?

Check the Westminster Confession of Faith

NB: See Oops! below proving they are also now proven frauds already before we could get even started with them directly!

How does anything below prove that anyone is a fraud?

2. Do you believe we have a " Free-Will? " (Your evidence is?)

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote:
Depends on how you define it. Philosophically I am a Compatibilist. Theologically I am Calvinist. My evidence would be primarily scripture. As for Compatibilism I do not know of any evidence or even if it is falsifiable.

Me: So your group doesn't know if you have a Free-Will or not but they know you are a genuine believer (apparently?)

Do you not know anything about Reformed Theology? If so, how could you determine they do not know if we have a free will or not? It is very clear what they believe about free will. I suggest you learn a thing or two about a what you accuse before you do.

3. Do you still sin since claiming to have embraced/come to know this Story book jesus?

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote: : Yes
Me: Oops!

Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him.< [1 John 3:6) NET Story book

&

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.< (1 John 3:6) KJV Story book

You should use verses in context. John is clearly referring to those who habitually sin (1 John 3:9). There are no biblical scholars, or theologians that would disagree that I am aware. It never hurts to know a little Greek as well: (poiei) means to do, to practice. But that isn't all. In Greek, like English, there are verb tenses: past, present, future. But in Greek, the present tense is not quite the same as the English. Instead, it is more a continuous action. Present tense: "The verb tense where the writer portrays an action in process or a state of being with no assessment of the action's completion." (Heiser, M. S. (2005; 2005). Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology) aka habitually.

"And he cannot sin [kai ou dunatai hamartanein]). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were [kai ou dunatai hamartein] or [hamartesai] (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive; [hamartanein] can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of; [hamartanei] in verse 8 and [hamartanein] in verse 6

Also, your interpretation is in no way compatible with statements John mentioned earlier in his book:
1 John 1:6-9
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

http://carm.org...

Since this whole thing seems like you just trying to troll I wont go much further. Just grab a commentary (ANY commentary).

Hence, we can now be assured by your own admission (I do thank you for answering honestly) that you sin constantly (See my Ref #1: above),

I never said I sin constantly. That was not part of your original question. I answered honestly so I ask you be honest in your response.

The verse you quoted as you quote it is not used as such in context.

that whatever you now say about your religious ideology and jesus is spurious and you have never seen nor known your jesus legitimately and thereby I'm afraid according to your own preferred Story book bible and your own admission,

You mean according to your (flawed by every credible ancient Greek scholar and theologian) interpretation of verses not in context and then adding "constantly" to my admission of committing sin,

your group are frauds also like you and obviously your entire group are illegitimate believers masquerading as angels of light (2 Cor. 11:14) KJV Story book

My group would be frauds based on your illegitimate interpretation of 1 John 3:6. By credible Greek scholars and the vast majority of Christian theologians I would be considered a legitimate Christian.

If you wanna troll that's kool! But I wont continue if that's the case.

Next!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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1/23/2012 7:03:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote:
The Bible had many different teachings that can be interpreted in many different ways.

Me: Then my way is also acceptable and more acceptable than yours because you have to play gymnastics with the text to try to prove your point which you can't and don't without distorting the text!

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote:
Its a matter of hermeneutics. Saying 'as detailed in the story book bible' is ambiguous and needs clarification.

Me: Incorrect! 1 Cor. 14:33 states that this Story book god does not cause confusion but that is obviously a lie hence the myriad of denominations all using the same reference book yet often poles apart!

The 100% human writers of the bible Story book were self-contradicting and cause massive confusion despite claiming their god told them to write otherwise. LOL!


To commence their candidature I would ask they please answer the following honestly!

Me: So a small group of men told you in a Dictionary & those in your same group also told you?

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote:
(1) its not a small group,

Me: Well what is it's size?

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote: (2) they did not determine this from the dictionary but from scripture,

Me: They said LOL!

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote:
(3) I mentioned the dictionary because its the only way we can determine what a Christian is objectively (or at least as objective as possible).

Me: Again absolutely Incorrect because the bible Story book details precisely how to recognise such a person,

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote: Perhaps you could get them to contact me and be similarly tested to see IF they are what they also claim to be?

Check the Westminster Confession of Faith

Me: A bunch of cowardly back-room boys hiding behind their Cult's skirts isn't having them come here literally to attempt to defend their opinions!

NB: See Oops! below proving they are also now proven frauds already before we could get even started with them directly!

How does anything below prove that anyone is a fraud?

Me: Read the text in context!

2. Do you believe we have a " Free-Will? " (Your evidence is?)

Me: So your group doesn't know if you have a Free-Will or not but they know you are a genuine believer (apparently?)

Do you not know anything about Reformed Theology? If so, how could you determine they do not know if we have a free will or not? It is very clear what they believe about free will. I suggest you learn a thing or two about a what you accuse before you do.

Me: I asked you to answer clearly Do They Believe In Free-Will and not receive the waffle and BS you spouted out so far!

So answer the question. Free-Will Yes Or No?

3. Do you still sin since claiming to have embraced/come to know this Story book jesus?

At 1/22/2012 8:07:36 PM, joneszj wrote: : Yes
Me: Oops!

Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him.< [1 John 3:6) NET Story book

&

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.< (1 John 3:6) KJV Story book

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote: You should use verses in context.

Me: I did and I didn't need to go scurrying elsewhere to try to make it appear as if it doesn't say what it clearly does say!

You are only demonstrating how self-contradicting your Story book is by trying to locate text that refute other text all within the same document!

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote: John is clearly referring to those who habitually sin (1 John 3:9). There are no biblical scholars, or theologians that would disagree that I am aware. It never hurts to know a little Greek as well: (poiei) means to do, to practice. But that isn't all. In Greek, like English, there are verb tenses: past, present, future. But in Greek, the present tense is not quite the same as the English. Instead, it is more a continuous action. Present tense: "The verb tense where the writer portrays an action in process or a state of being with no assessment of the action's completion." (Heiser, M. S. (2005; 2005). Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology) aka habitually.

"And he cannot sin [kai ou dunatai hamartanein]). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were [kai ou dunatai hamartein] or [hamartesai] (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive; [hamartanein] can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of; [hamartanei] in verse 8 and [hamartanein] in verse 6

Me: More of your linguistic twaddle and manipulation!

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote: Also, your interpretation is in no way compatible with statements John mentioned earlier in his book:
1 John 1:6-9
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Me: Story book John lied!

No ones blood or sacrifice can cleanse anothers -

Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 alone proves that!

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote:
http://carm.org...

Me: Matthew Slick is a gutless coward that hides behind his incestuous Forum and bans or ignores those that dare to expose him and his easily proven false doctrine!

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote: Since this whole thing seems like you just trying to troll I wont go much further. Just grab a commentary (ANY commentary).

Me: Your lies are also noted. Just because you & Matt are exposed as legitimate jesus' frauds you resort to your illegitimate ' Troll ' defence in lieu of a shred of credibility for your now lost cause!

Hence, we can now be assured by your own admission (I do thank you for answering honestly) that you sin constantly (See my Ref #1: above),

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote:
I never said I sin constantly. That was not part of your original question. I answered honestly so I ask you be honest in your response.

Me: You said you st

The verse you quoted as you quote it is not used as such in context.

At 1/23/2012 1:17:20 PM, joneszj wrote: My group would be frauds based on your illegitimate interpretation of 1 John 3:6. By credible Greek scholars and the vast majority of Christian theologians I would be considered a legitimate Christian.

Me: My interpretation is fine, your inability to legitimately manifest yourself as a true believer according to your own Story book bile proves your illegitimacy no matter what your buddies have to say to try to support you & themselves because of their abject failures!

Much much better luck next times!

Next!