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Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

GreatestIam
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1/25/2012 10:19:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

Paul took the position that salvation could be gained on faith alone. James took the position that faith without works and deeds is dead. Even if one had faith, like demons and Satan must, without works they were still going to hell.

Most have landed with James who said that faith without deeds and works was dead. This may be due to Jesus who said that we would recognize his people by their works.

Love, it would seem to me, has the same characteristic as faith. Love without works and deeds is dead. Be it love for a spouse, our children, parents or friends or even God, if we did not do works and deeds, they could not know that we love them. At the very least, we would have to tell them we love them and that falls into works and deeds.

Many believers tell me that God is love or loves us all. They always point to deeds and works that fall in the range of un-provable miracles. Most of these miracles are in the ancient past. Creation and what not. Some take it to the present and I have been told often that God can do whatever he wants with us because he made us. I discard this out of hand because I believe that if that were true, God would not also create all those things that kill us and cause us to suffer. That is not a loving act.

Love, human to human, must have ongoing deeds and works to be alive. Without these, love is dead.

Love, God to human, must also have ongoing works and deeds. If God is alive, he must and would express his love with viable and recognizable actions.

If we cannot see these acts on God's part --- and you agree that love must be expressed somehow with works and deeds, ----does that mean that God does not love or that he is dead?

Regards
DL
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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1/25/2012 3:47:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/25/2012 10:19:29 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

Paul took the position that salvation could be gained on faith alone. James took the position that faith without works and deeds is dead. Even if one had faith, like demons and Satan must, without works they were still going to hell.

Most have landed with James who said that faith without deeds and works was dead. This may be due to Jesus who said that we would recognize his people by their works.

You are forming a false dichotomy given the context for the whole of scripture.

Love, it would seem to me, has the same characteristic as faith. Love without works and deeds is dead. Be it love for a spouse, our children, parents or friends or even God, if we did not do works and deeds, they could not know that we love them. At the very least, we would have to tell them we love them and that falls into works and deeds.

Many believers tell me that God is love or loves us all. They always point to deeds and works that fall in the range of un-provable miracles. Most of these miracles are in the ancient past. Creation and what not. Some take it to the present and I have been told often that God can do whatever he wants with us because he made us. I discard this out of hand because I believe that if that were true, God would not also create all those things that kill us and cause us to suffer. That is not a loving act.

God loves Himself. That can be understood and easily pointed out is scripture. God loves man. That also can be pointed out in scripture. Does God love all men equally? I would say no. I would use the Bible to supposrt that claim. Also, I would say that God can do w/e He wants with us that fits in His character/nature. I recommend you look into Christian Hedonism with figures like John Piper or something. God ordains everything! Including evil.

Love, human to human, must have ongoing deeds and works to be alive. Without these, love is dead.

Love, God to human, must also have ongoing works and deeds. If God is alive, he must and would express his love with viable and recognizable actions.

He does. To those He loves He regenerates. This regeneration is recognized and the recipient then loves God.

If we cannot see these acts on God's part --- and you agree that love must be expressed somehow with works and deeds, ----does that mean that God does not love or that he is dead?

These acts would be confessed by any Christian. God moves in their hearts. Anyone who believes in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit would testify that God loves them in many ways.

Regards
DL

whats DL mean?
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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1/26/2012 6:04:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/25/2012 3:47:54 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/25/2012 10:19:29 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

Paul took the position that salvation could be gained on faith alone. James took the position that faith without works and deeds is dead. Even if one had faith, like demons and Satan must, without works they were still going to hell.

Most have landed with James who said that faith without deeds and works was dead. This may be due to Jesus who said that we would recognize his people by their works.

You are forming a false dichotomy given the context for the whole of scripture.

Love, it would seem to me, has the same characteristic as faith. Love without works and deeds is dead. Be it love for a spouse, our children, parents or friends or even God, if we did not do works and deeds, they could not know that we love them. At the very least, we would have to tell them we love them and that falls into works and deeds.

Many believers tell me that God is love or loves us all. They always point to deeds and works that fall in the range of un-provable miracles. Most of these miracles are in the ancient past. Creation and what not. Some take it to the present and I have been told often that God can do whatever he wants with us because he made us. I discard this out of hand because I believe that if that were true, God would not also create all those things that kill us and cause us to suffer. That is not a loving act.

God loves Himself. That can be understood and easily pointed out is scripture. God loves man. That also can be pointed out in scripture. Does God love all men equally? I would say no. I would use the Bible to supposrt that claim. Also, I would say that God can do w/e He wants with us that fits in His character/nature. I recommend you look into Christian Hedonism with figures like John Piper or something. God ordains everything! Including evil.

Love, human to human, must have ongoing deeds and works to be alive. Without these, love is dead.

Love, God to human, must also have ongoing works and deeds. If God is alive, he must and would express his love with viable and recognizable actions.

He does. To those He loves He regenerates. This regeneration is recognized and the recipient then loves God.

If we cannot see these acts on God's part --- and you agree that love must be expressed somehow with works and deeds, ----does that mean that God does not love or that he is dead?

These acts would be confessed by any Christian. God moves in their hearts. Anyone who believes in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit would testify that God loves them in many ways.

Regards
DL

whats DL mean?

So basically even the chosen have nothing to back up anything to prove they are not delusional.

Regards
DL
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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1/26/2012 6:36:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 6:04:55 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 1/25/2012 3:47:54 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/25/2012 10:19:29 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

Paul took the position that salvation could be gained on faith alone. James took the position that faith without works and deeds is dead. Even if one had faith, like demons and Satan must, without works they were still going to hell.

Most have landed with James who said that faith without deeds and works was dead. This may be due to Jesus who said that we would recognize his people by their works.

You are forming a false dichotomy given the context for the whole of scripture.

Love, it would seem to me, has the same characteristic as faith. Love without works and deeds is dead. Be it love for a spouse, our children, parents or friends or even God, if we did not do works and deeds, they could not know that we love them. At the very least, we would have to tell them we love them and that falls into works and deeds.

Many believers tell me that God is love or loves us all. They always point to deeds and works that fall in the range of un-provable miracles. Most of these miracles are in the ancient past. Creation and what not. Some take it to the present and I have been told often that God can do whatever he wants with us because he made us. I discard this out of hand because I believe that if that were true, God would not also create all those things that kill us and cause us to suffer. That is not a loving act.

God loves Himself. That can be understood and easily pointed out is scripture. God loves man. That also can be pointed out in scripture. Does God love all men equally? I would say no. I would use the Bible to supposrt that claim. Also, I would say that God can do w/e He wants with us that fits in His character/nature. I recommend you look into Christian Hedonism with figures like John Piper or something. God ordains everything! Including evil.

Love, human to human, must have ongoing deeds and works to be alive. Without these, love is dead.

Love, God to human, must also have ongoing works and deeds. If God is alive, he must and would express his love with viable and recognizable actions.

He does. To those He loves He regenerates. This regeneration is recognized and the recipient then loves God.

If we cannot see these acts on God's part --- and you agree that love must be expressed somehow with works and deeds, ----does that mean that God does not love or that he is dead?

These acts would be confessed by any Christian. God moves in their hearts. Anyone who believes in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit would testify that God loves them in many ways.

Regards
DL

whats DL mean?

So basically even the chosen have nothing to back up anything to prove they are not delusional.

Regards
DL

Just scripture alone my friend. But your argument here does not make anyone delusional. I presented very clear explanations to your obviously delusional understanding of scripture. In the context of this particular argument you fit all the criteria for delusion: you hold with certainty that what you believe is fact, no logical compelling counterargument can sway you, and because of your misunderstanding of scripture you hold to a belief that is bizarre and completely falsifiable as I have demonstrated. But I do not really think you are delusional, your just trolling. But then again maybe you are...
joneszj
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1/27/2012 9:27:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/27/2012 7:27:39 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
The Bible is your guide. How droll.







Regards
DL

Bait and switch tactics greatestiam? I think that shows the motives of your posts.

1st video for the most part is attacking a straw man. There are some parts that would make sense if those practices were practiced today which they are not and are not intended to be. Comparing something that is inherently a supernatural act and then trying to reason it via naturalism will always produce a nasty result. But there's a reason its call "suppernatural". think abotu that...

2nd Video
spends the 1st 20 minutes going over 'lost books'; forgory
Determining authorship
Forgory's inside the NT
1,2 Peter have different authors
No basis for secretary writings? Why can't the NT be used as evidence? Paul clearly states that he is using a secretary in certain books which gives evidence that it was used.
Anonymous authorship
Determines this to say they are forged
At 30 minutes into this notion uses it to undermind Biblical truth
He in no way determined as fact what he is running on

I did not feel like going through 35 minutes of Q&A. If you think there is anything pertinent after that let me know.

3rd video- Mr. Hector. I had a friend in the Marine Corps that looks so much like that guy.
Archeology killed Biblical hisrtory:
-Irrelevant
Desease- in certain contexts desease is attribute directly from God. That does not mean that all desease is a result of God acting to cause it, though it is ordained.
Killing- verse, context please
cosmology- doctrine of accomodation http://en.wikipedia.org...(religion)
Women inferior to men: Christian complementarianism does not see women as inferior or men as superior. Instead, it sees them as being identical in nature but different in function and role. http://carm.org...
-Method of convincing 7:50
-Qoutes from various scholars to support his claims of irrelevancy
-difference in translations public/schoral....? evidence please, I have the Bible in its original languages. I have scholastic journals and commentaries and hermenuetics and documents; books from the antecedent fathers and up, none of which would determine his claims
-Finally, archeology
He finally gets to the meat of his presentation and as soon as I saw that it claims there is no evidence for Jesus as a historical figure it was clear to me that he examines as evidence only that which supports his agenda. For a in depth review of hectors works: http://www.theologyweb.com... atleast with that review you can cross referrence his claims and substantiate them for yourself.

As opposed to just taking unsubstantiated claims as gospel and then parading others with different views who are much more intelligent then you or I as delusional perhaps you should start threads with a little more intellectual honesty? You just might get more responses. Bait and switch.... Later

Regards
ZJ