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The trinitarian ideology exposed again!

Composer
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1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!
JaxsonRaine
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1/26/2012 12:26:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

Sorry, I never saw a response for this elsewhere... I would like to take your Christian challenge that you were proposing.

As to this topic, Jesus is the Son of God. Trinitarian ideology is truly strange, it makes more sense for the Son to be separate from the Father, and I will never know what 'one in substance' is supposed to mean anyway.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Composer
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1/26/2012 12:38:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 12:26:56 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

Sorry, I never saw a response for this elsewhere... I would like to take your Christian challenge that you were proposing.

Me: Sure! Do you wish to Start a Debate or a New Thread where you can be tested for legitimacy?

Please advise?


You: As to this topic, Jesus is the Son of God.

Me: Legitimate evidence you didn't provide either, so can I see what you think you have apart from the typical religious/Cult preferred Story book propaganda, emotional pleadings and your groups promotional publications?

You: Trinitarian ideology is truly strange, it makes more sense for the Son to be separate from the Father, and I will never know what 'one in substance' is supposed to mean anyway.

Me: So what Cult do you belong to if not trinitarian and can we also examine that?

Cheers!
JaxsonRaine
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1/26/2012 12:45:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 12:38:32 AM, Composer wrote:
At 1/26/2012 12:26:56 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

Sorry, I never saw a response for this elsewhere... I would like to take your Christian challenge that you were proposing.

Me: Sure! Do you wish to Start a Debate or a New Thread where you can be tested for legitimacy?

Please advise?

Start a new thread if you would like, and spell out the details. Thanks.


You: As to this topic, Jesus is the Son of God.

Me: Legitimate evidence you didn't provide either, so can I see what you think you have apart from the typical religious/Cult preferred Story book propaganda, emotional pleadings and your groups promotional publications?

Let's address that in the other thread.

You: Trinitarian ideology is truly strange, it makes more sense for the Son to be separate from the Father, and I will never know what 'one in substance' is supposed to mean anyway.

Me: So what Cult do you belong to if not trinitarian and can we also examine that?

Cheers!

My beliefs are a little different... I believe many religions are all correct, just in different ways. You can most closely identify me with Mormons.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Wandile
Posts: 97
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1/26/2012 1:54:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

Pretty much. What your missing is the form that God is in. God in his true nature cannot be contained even in the 'heaven of heavens'. However he does manifest himself to a containable form so that he can speak to man personally.

You missed the point that God manifested himself in the form of a man. And since he had to live a full life, he manifested to the most primal stage of humanity which is a foetus in the womb.

All God did was take on another form... A more containable one.

It's really a simple concept. It's not rocket science.
"Possibly deluded.... no way to confirm the veracity. That is an extraordinary claim to suggest billions the world over and throughout history are deluded. Proof?
Also if you actually believe these Billions of historical Christians are deluded, what gives you a warrant to special plead you are not equally self deluded within your own views? Sounds like self contradictory belief system you are under." - Gileandos

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice - Proverb
Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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1/26/2012 10:59:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Interesting: http://www.outreachjudaism.org...
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Wandile
Posts: 97
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1/26/2012 11:12:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 10:59:59 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
Interesting: http://www.outreachjudaism.org...

Read all the quotes... What significance is that supposed to have on the topic at hand?

I will admit though that I really like the quotes.
"Possibly deluded.... no way to confirm the veracity. That is an extraordinary claim to suggest billions the world over and throughout history are deluded. Proof?
Also if you actually believe these Billions of historical Christians are deluded, what gives you a warrant to special plead you are not equally self deluded within your own views? Sounds like self contradictory belief system you are under." - Gileandos

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice - Proverb
joneszj
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1/26/2012 11:19:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 10:59:59 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
Interesting: http://www.outreachjudaism.org...

Only for: $89.00!!! Buy now and we won't quote from the New Testament! I fail to see what you are getting at Mr.Infidel. Those verses do not contradict Trinitarian theology. They actually support it.
Mr.Infidel
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1/26/2012 2:26:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 11:19:17 AM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/26/2012 10:59:59 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
Interesting: http://www.outreachjudaism.org...

Only for: $89.00!!! Buy now and we won't quote from the New Testament! I fail to see what you are getting at Mr.Infidel. Those verses do not contradict Trinitarian theology. They actually support it.

HAHA! Explain please. No Jew has EVER believed in the Trinity before the advent of Christianity.
Please donate to the following ENDANGERED SPECIES!
Preciousness of life.
Family structure.
Family values. 

Disarm a liberal. Vote for values.

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InsertNameHere
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1/26/2012 2:48:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The trinity is one of the most illogical things about christianity and one of the things that has always kept me from converting whenever I'm faced by preachers.
JaxsonRaine
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1/26/2012 2:57:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 2:48:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The trinity is one of the most illogical things about christianity and one of the things that has always kept me from converting whenever I'm faced by preachers.

Mormon theology doesn't have the problem of the incomprehensible trinity...
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
InsertNameHere
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1/26/2012 2:59:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 2:57:55 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/26/2012 2:48:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The trinity is one of the most illogical things about christianity and one of the things that has always kept me from converting whenever I'm faced by preachers.

Mormon theology doesn't have the problem of the incomprehensible trinity...

Well I wouldn't convert to Mormonism either. :/
joneszj
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1/26/2012 3:13:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 2:26:08 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 1/26/2012 11:19:17 AM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/26/2012 10:59:59 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
Interesting: http://www.outreachjudaism.org...

Only for: $89.00!!! Buy now and we won't quote from the New Testament! I fail to see what you are getting at Mr.Infidel. Those verses do not contradict Trinitarian theology. They actually support it.


HAHA! Explain please. No Jew has EVER believed in the Trinity before the advent of Christianity.

Pointing out verses that sat God is one does nothing to the doctrine of the Trinity. Trinitarians use those very verses to support their beliefs. Those verses alone are not what brought christianity to the doctrine of the Trinity. The New Testament with the person of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit both being declared God while holding to monotheism is where the doctrine comes from. However, there are many Old Testament terms and phrases that hint to the doctrine though it was not fully revealed until the New Testatment.

Verses that give plurality of the Godhead in the OT:

http://carm.org...
A.Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
i.Angels do not create.
ii.We are not made in the image of angels
iii.There is no place in the OT where a leader refers to himself with the term "us."
B.Gen. 3:22, "Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever -'"
C.Gen. 11:7, "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."
D.Gen. 19:24, "Then the Lord [YHWH] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord [YHWH] out of heaven."
E.Psalm 45:6-7, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom. 7Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Thy God, has anointed Thee."
i.This is quoted in Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He [God] says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
ii.The Jehovah's Witness Bible has it translated as "God is thy Throne forever and ever..." But, God would not be a throne for anyone. A king sits upon a throne and God sits on His throne, not anyone else on God as a throne.
F.Isaiah 6:8, "Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!'"
G.Isaiah 48:16, "Come near to Me [God], listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit."
H.Amos 4:10-11, "I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, And I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; Yet you have not returned to Me," declares the Lord [YHWH]. 11"I overthrew you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a firebrand snatched from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me," declares the Lord."

Also, Hebrew scholars generally agree that the term Elohim is perfectly able to support the Trinity regardless if it is believed to be so or not.
"However, considering the (Trinity), the form indeed allows for lurality of the Godhead"
http://www.hebrew4christians.com...
joneszj
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1/26/2012 3:18:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 2:48:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The trinity is one of the most illogical things about christianity and one of the things that has always kept me from converting whenever I'm faced by preachers.

Article from http://carm.org...
(for Jaxson also, because something is incomprehensible (to you) does not make it implausible or a contradiction)

The Bible teaches that within the one being that is God, there is a simultaneous existence of three coequal and coeternal persons; namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This doctrine is typically called the Trinity (derived from tri-unity, three in one). While there are a number of important terms here such as "coequal" (which means all three persons of God are equal in power in glory), and "coeternal" (which means all three persons of God have existed eternally as God, none are created), and "simultaneous" (which means all three persons of God have existed at the same time), for this short paper let us focus on clarifying the most common source of confusion concerning this doctrine, which is what is meant by the words "being" and "persons."

Philosophically speaking, the word "being" merely refers to the totality of what a thing is. Rocks have being, chairs have being, humans have being, etc. Any quality or feature that can properly be attributed to something is part of its being. Part of a rock's being are the minerals that it has. A chair's being might contain wood, metal, or plastic and have 3 to 4 legs and any number of colors, all of which would be characteristics of its being (existence). Human beings are different from the beings of chairs or rocks in many ways, but one important way humans differ from the beings of inanimate objects in particular is that human beings have "personhood"; that is, human beings are intelligent, conscious, and unique individuals, where a rock is not. Human beings can be defined by their attributes of a skeletal system, organs, flesh, their personhood, and their intelligence, which separates them from rocks and trees and chairs. Every human being has one person as a part of his or her being. God however is unique from rocks and chairs, but He is also unique from human beings in that the totality of what God is contains three distinct persons as opposed to human beings who only have one person as part of their being.

Many people who reject the biblical doctrine of the Trinity do because of confusion and misunderstanding. They think we are saying the Bible teaches that God is one person and God is three persons at the same time and in the same way. If that was actually what we were saying then the Trinity would indeed be a logical contradiction. However, when properly understood that God is one "being" who exists as three "persons," and we understand the difference between the words "being" and "person," then there is no logical contradiction in the Trinity. The fact of the matter is that God is simply a different kind of being than human beings, containing more persons in His existence than humans. Some will say "but there is nothing else like this to which we can point!" We as Christians say "Amen. There is no one like our God!" It is exactly for this reason that we should not try to explain God by comparing Him to things in this world, because there is nothing to which He can be compared.
JaxsonRaine
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1/26/2012 3:58:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 3:18:23 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/26/2012 2:48:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The trinity is one of the most illogical things about christianity and one of the things that has always kept me from converting whenever I'm faced by preachers.

Article from http://carm.org...
(for Jaxson also, because something is incomprehensible (to you) does not make it implausible or a contradiction)

I didn't say it did. I just said it doesn't make sense to me. The Mormon Godhead makes more sense, and fits better with Biblical scripture in my opinion.


The Bible teaches

No, the following is one interpretation of what the Bible teaches. You have to understand the difference.

that within the one being that is God, there is a simultaneous existence of three coequal and coeternal persons; namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This doctrine is typically called the Trinity (derived from tri-unity, three in one). While there are a number of important terms here such as "coequal" (which means all three persons of God are equal in power in glory), and "coeternal" (which means all three persons of God have existed eternally as God, none are created), and "simultaneous" (which means all three persons of God have existed at the same time), for this short paper let us focus on clarifying the most common source of confusion concerning this doctrine, which is what is meant by the words "being" and "persons."

Philosophically speaking, the word "being" merely refers to the totality of what a thing is. Rocks have being, chairs have being, humans have being, etc. Any quality or feature that can properly be attributed to something is part of its being. Part of a rock's being are the minerals that it has. A chair's being might contain wood, metal, or plastic and have 3 to 4 legs and any number of colors, all of which would be characteristics of its being (existence). Human beings are different from the beings of chairs or rocks in many ways, but one important way humans differ from the beings of inanimate objects in particular is that human beings have "personhood"; that is, human beings are intelligent, conscious, and unique individuals, where a rock is not. Human beings can be defined by their attributes of a skeletal system, organs, flesh, their personhood, and their intelligence, which separates them from rocks and trees and chairs. Every human being has one person as a part of his or her being. God however is unique from rocks and chairs, but He is also unique from human beings in that the totality of what God is contains three distinct persons as opposed to human beings who only have one person as part of their being.

Many people who reject the biblical doctrine of the Trinity do because of confusion and misunderstanding. They think we are saying the Bible teaches that God is one person and God is three persons at the same time and in the same way. If that was actually what we were saying then the Trinity would indeed be a logical contradiction. However, when properly understood that God is one "being" who exists as three "persons," and we understand the difference between the words "being" and "person," then there is no logical contradiction in the Trinity.

That isn't so different than the Mormon Godhead.

The fact of the matter is that God is simply a different kind of being than human beings, containing more persons in His existence than humans. Some will say "but there is nothing else like this to which we can point!" We as Christians say "Amen. There is no one like our God!" It is exactly for this reason that we should not try to explain God by comparing Him to things in this world, because there is nothing to which He can be compared.

Actually, there is. Humans were created in His image, so we can be instrumental in learning about Him.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
joneszj
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1/26/2012 5:06:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 3:58:02 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/26/2012 3:18:23 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 1/26/2012 2:48:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The trinity is one of the most illogical things about christianity and one of the things that has always kept me from converting whenever I'm faced by preachers.

Article from http://carm.org...
(for Jaxson also, because something is incomprehensible (to you) does not make it implausible or a contradiction)

I didn't say it did. I just said it doesn't make sense to me. The Mormon Godhead makes more sense, and fits better with Biblical scripture in my opinion.


The Bible teaches

No, the following is one interpretation of what the Bible teaches. You have to understand the difference.

that within the one being that is God, there is a simultaneous existence of three coequal and coeternal persons; namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This doctrine is typically called the Trinity (derived from tri-unity, three in one). While there are a number of important terms here such as "coequal" (which means all three persons of God are equal in power in glory), and "coeternal" (which means all three persons of God have existed eternally as God, none are created), and "simultaneous" (which means all three persons of God have existed at the same time), for this short paper let us focus on clarifying the most common source of confusion concerning this doctrine, which is what is meant by the words "being" and "persons."

Philosophically speaking, the word "being" merely refers to the totality of what a thing is. Rocks have being, chairs have being, humans have being, etc. Any quality or feature that can properly be attributed to something is part of its being. Part of a rock's being are the minerals that it has. A chair's being might contain wood, metal, or plastic and have 3 to 4 legs and any number of colors, all of which would be characteristics of its being (existence). Human beings are different from the beings of chairs or rocks in many ways, but one important way humans differ from the beings of inanimate objects in particular is that human beings have "personhood"; that is, human beings are intelligent, conscious, and unique individuals, where a rock is not. Human beings can be defined by their attributes of a skeletal system, organs, flesh, their personhood, and their intelligence, which separates them from rocks and trees and chairs. Every human being has one person as a part of his or her being. God however is unique from rocks and chairs, but He is also unique from human beings in that the totality of what God is contains three distinct persons as opposed to human beings who only have one person as part of their being.

Many people who reject the biblical doctrine of the Trinity do because of confusion and misunderstanding. They think we are saying the Bible teaches that God is one person and God is three persons at the same time and in the same way. If that was actually what we were saying then the Trinity would indeed be a logical contradiction. However, when properly understood that God is one "being" who exists as three "persons," and we understand the difference between the words "being" and "person," then there is no logical contradiction in the Trinity.

That isn't so different than the Mormon Godhead.

So it is conprehesible for you now?

Correct me if i am wrong but Mormons view the Godhead more of a logical office then they do a being. Mormons teach that God is three seperate persons and three seperate beings that are God, right?

The fact of the matter is that God is simply a different kind of being than human beings, containing more persons in His existence than humans. Some will say "but there is nothing else like this to which we can point!" We as Christians say "Amen. There is no one like our God!" It is exactly for this reason that we should not try to explain God by comparing Him to things in this world, because there is nothing to which He can be compared.

Actually, there is. Humans were created in His image, so we can be instrumental in learning about Him.

Yes, we are!
JaxsonRaine
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1/26/2012 6:06:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 5:06:59 PM, joneszj wrote:
That isn't so different than the Mormon Godhead.

So it is conprehesible for you now?

In a way, yes. I can't believe that we are created in the image of something that is a completely different type of being than we are.

Correct me if i am wrong but Mormons view the Godhead more of a logical office then they do a being. Mormons teach that God is three seperate persons and three seperate beings that are God, right?

Basically, yes.

Actually, there is. Humans were created in His image, so we can be instrumental in learning about Him.

Yes, we are!

And that's why it makes sense to think(aside from scripture that supports it directly) that the Father has a body.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
joneszj
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1/26/2012 6:20:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 6:06:50 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 1/26/2012 5:06:59 PM, joneszj wrote:
That isn't so different than the Mormon Godhead.

So it is conprehesible for you now?

In a way, yes. I can't believe that we are created in the image of something that is a completely different type of being than we are.

Correct me if i am wrong but Mormons view the Godhead more of a logical office then they do a being. Mormons teach that God is three seperate persons and three seperate beings that are God, right?

Basically, yes.

Would this not be considered Tri-theism?

Actually, there is. Humans were created in His image, so we can be instrumental in learning about Him.

Yes, we are!

And that's why it makes sense to think(aside from scripture that supports it directly) that the Father has a body.

If being made in the image of God means being made in the same nature as God. But that is not what I was agreeing to. What verses are you referring to?
Composer
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1/27/2012 3:06:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

At 1/26/2012 1:54:58 AM, Wandile wrote:
Pretty much. What your missing is the form that God is in. God in his true nature cannot be contained even in the 'heaven of heavens'.

So in its alleged human form by your hypothesis, it can NOT be in its true nature but a false or altered one?

I also note that you have NO supportive text for your hypothesis?, Unlike myself that is able to accurately quote from even the Story book bible in correct context absolutely refuting claims and hypothesis such as yours!

Your hypothesis also fails because IF it could manifest itself into a tiny little human womb, then equally it could also manifest itself to be contained in heaven & contained in the heaven of heavens but unfortunately for your hypothesis e.g. 1 Kings 8:27 states it can't!

Your hypothesis also fails because of Story book - i) For I [am] the LORD, I change not ; . . . . (Mal. 3:6) KJV Story book

& your hypothesis again fails because of -

. . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, . . . . (James 1:17) KJV Story book

&

If this Story book figure jesus did literally pre-exist in Story book heaven or elsewhere, then the process for getting it into Mary's womb is perforce an implantation or a transplantation, but certainly not a conception.

Yet conception is exactly what Story book Gabriel said would take place.

"30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (Luke 1:30-31) KJV Story book

And the angel said unto her,* "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. 31. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. (Luke 1:30-31) catholic edition RSV Story book

Hence Story book jesus was conceived by Mary, with holy-spirit godperson as the Story book male parent. (cf. Luke 1:35, Using the corrupt and ' Johnny come lately ' trinitarian formulation rejected by the Original believers.)

Therefore, in no possible way can Story book jesus be described as literally pre-existing.

In fact also -
" For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; " (1 Timothy 2:5.) KJV Story book

So biblical Story book jesus really is a man. This is the undoubted teaching of the New Testament.

Now compare that with these words by the former Bishop of Woolwich, Dr. Robinson, in his book, "Honest to God," in a passage where he was explaining how most Christians view Jesus: -

"Jesus was not a man born and bred, he was God for a limited period taking part in a charade. He looked like a man, but underneath he was God dressed up - like Father Christmas."(Extract from: a_hayward/come_down/comedownfromheaven.htm#4)

&

Story book god ' gave life ' to Story book jesus (John 5:26)

It isn't possible to ' give life ' to something you claim literally pre-existed!

At 1/26/2012 1:54:58 AM, Wandile wrote:
It's really a simple concept. :
After reading the legitimate evidence against your hypothesis there is no other legitimate conclusion that the trinity formulation is a concept believed only by simpletons!

Thanks for trying!
Wandile
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1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So in its alleged human form by your hypothesis, it can NOT be in its true nature but a false or altered one?

Not false nature... God simply adds onto his divine nature. God adds on a human nature for he can't stop being God hence Jesus is called by all known scholars, christians and theologians, the God man. In fact even in the gospel of John (the gospel that explicitly teaches the God man) Jesus claims to be God on several occasions. Want me quote the bible?

Even the Old Testament teaches the Messiah will be God. Just ask me to quote and I'll supply many messianic prophecies for. :)

I also note that you have NO supportive text for your hypothesis?, Unlike myself that is able to accurately quote from even the Story book bible in correct context absolutely refuting claims and hypothesis such as yours!

Lol No supportive proof? You really haven't read bible properly. This is hilarious but for the sake of argument I'll refute this. Since you refuting Trinitarian doctrine, you need to prove that Jesus was just a man and not the Son of God.

"The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.' "
(Luke 1:33-35)

Secondly you need to prove that the Son of the Father is not also God just as the Father and Holy Spirit are God.

Well the bible firmly teaches that Jesus the logos/ Word of God (the other title for the Son) is God :

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
(John 1:1)

Your whole thread is about Jesus not being God incarnate and thus falsifying the Holy Trinity doctrine. Well as you can see, Jesus is God.

Your hypothesis also fails because IF it could manifest itself into a tiny little human womb, then equally it could also manifest itself to be contained in heaven & contained in the heaven of heavens but unfortunately for your hypothesis e.g. 1 Kings 8:27 states it can't!

I already explained this. Solomon's prayer in 1 Kings 8:27 does not refute the fact that God can manifest himself in a containable form. Heck, in Genesis 18 God becomes a man and even dines with Abraham! He is accompanied by two angels (who go of to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah) who also manifested themselves in the form of men.

Again God becomes a man in Genesis 32 :22-31 and wrestles with Jacob to test him so that he could Jacob a blessing.

Your hypothesis also fails because of Story book - i) For I [am] the LORD, I change not ; . . . . (Mal. 3:6) KJV Story book

& your hypothesis again fails because of -

. . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, . . . . (James 1:17) KJV Story book

Dude James 1:17 is referencing the personality and nature of God. God in His true nature can never change or else that would mean God stops being God. Hence God never changes, his personality is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

This still does not refute the fact that God can and does manifest himself so that he can Visit us. Sometimes it's in the form of a burning bush or a thunder cloud or simply a man.

If this Story book figure jesus did literally pre-exist in Story book heaven or elsewhere, then the process for getting it into Mary's womb is perforce an implantation or a transplantation, but certainly not a conception.

It is conception genius, the text even says itself. Look at the prophecy :

"... The virgin shall conceive and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel."
(Isaiah 7:14)

Note : Immanuel means God with us.

Matthew quotes this very prophecy in Matthew 1:22-23.

You're ignorant of the fact that "be with child" is a synonyms translation of hebrew word for "conceive" hence some translations say "be with child" while others use the less poetic and more direct translation of "conceive".

Yet conception is exactly what Story book Gabriel said would take place.

"30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (Luke 1:30-31) KJV Story book

Read above.

And the angel said unto her,* "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. 31. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. (Luke 1:30-31) catholic edition RSV Story book

Hence Story book jesus was conceived by Mary, with holy-spirit godperson as the Story book male parent. (cf. Luke 1:35, Using the corrupt and ' Johnny come lately ' trinitarian formulation rejected by the Original believers.)

Therefore, in no possible way can Story book jesus be described as literally pre-existing.

Hehe read John 1:1

In fact also -
" For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; " (1 Timothy 2:5.) KJV Story book

So biblical Story book jesus really is a man. This is the undoubted teaching of the New Testament.

No one denies that Jesus was man. Trinitarian doctrine teaches that he was fully man. It teaches he had two natures, a divine and a human nature. He was fully God and Fully man --- the Godman.

In fact in the early Church the Arian heresy arose and taught that Jesus was not a man, but simply God who was some sort of 'hologram'. The Church firmly rebuked the heresy at the Council of Nicaea.

Now compare that with these words by the former Bishop of Woolwich, Dr. Robinson, in his book, "Honest to God," in a passage where he was explaining how most Christians view Jesus: -

"Jesus was not a man born and bred, he was God for a limited period taking part in a charade. He looked like a man, but underneath he was God dressed up - like Father Christmas."(Extract from: a_hayward/come_down/comedownfromheaven.htm#4)

Dude, a Bishop is not infallible. Read the Catechism
of the Catholic Church.

Story book god ' gave life ' to Story book jesus (John 5:26)

It isn't possible to ' give life ' to something you claim literally pre-existed!

To give a human life, it is.

At 1/26/2012 1:54:58 AM, Wandile wrote:
It's really a simple concept. :
After reading the legitimate evidence against your hypothesis there is no other legitimate conclusion that the trinity formulation is a concept believed only by simpletons!

Thanks for trying!

This was fun :P
"Possibly deluded.... no way to confirm the veracity. That is an extraordinary claim to suggest billions the world over and throughout history are deluded. Proof?
Also if you actually believe these Billions of historical Christians are deluded, what gives you a warrant to special plead you are not equally self deluded within your own views? Sounds like self contradictory belief system you are under." - Gileandos

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice - Proverb
Composer
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1/27/2012 9:43:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So in its alleged human form by your hypothesis, it can NOT be in its true nature but a false or altered one?

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote
Not false nature... God simply adds onto his divine nature.

IF this Story book god needed to ' add something to itself ' then that would mean it was ' lacking ' before!

You have no credibility and again I remind you that Story book god never alters -

e.g. For I [am] the LORD, I change not; . . . . (Mal. 3:6) KJV Story book


Your hypothesis that it needed to ' add to itself ' would necessitate a ' change ' which e.g. Mal. 3:6 states is impossible!

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote
Jesus claims to be God on several occasions. Want me quote the bible?
Quote your Story book by all means and let's hope you do better than this miserable effort!

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote
Even the Old Testament teaches the Messiah will be God. Just ask me to quote and I'll supply many messianic prophecies for.

You are obviously just another immature beginner and your scriptural knowledge extremely poor and even that spurious!

There is no indication in the Old Testament that the Messiah would be a person before his conception. The very opposite was taught: The Messiah would expressly not be God, but a unique, final "prophet like Moses," coming into being from a family in Israel (see Deut. 18:15-19; Acts 3:22; 7:37) - " It was impossible for the Apostles to identify Christ with Jehovah. Psalm 110:1 and Malachi 3:1 prevented this " (Charles C. Bigg, D.D. Regius Professor of Ecclesiastical History, Oxford, in International Critical Commentary on I Peter).

"The Old Testament tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary implication of a triune God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a trinity within the God head. Even to see in the Old Testament, suggestions or fore-shadowings or veiled signs of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers. The New Testament writers give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. Nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same God head. [The Triune God , by Edmund Fortman, Jesuit].

"Christendom has done away with Christianity without being quite aware of it" (Soren Kierkegaard, cited in Time magazine, Dec. 16, 1946, p. 64).

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote Again God becomes a man in Genesis 32 :22-31 and wrestles with Jacob to test him so that he could Jacob a blessing.
Story book confirms Jacob wrestled with a Story book angel -

He struggled with an angel and prevailed; . . . . (Hosea 12:4) NET Story book

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote "... The virgin shall conceive and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel." (Isaiah 7:14)

Note : Immanuel means God with us.
Again Incorrect! -

Matthew 1:23 (Isaiah 7:14)
It is sometimes asserted that the name Immanuel - "God is with us" - given to Jesus proves that he is God. If that were so, then the child born soon after the prediction was given by Isaiah in the days of Ahaz, would also have been God.

The name, however, does not tell us that Jesus is God, but that in his life God has intervened to save His people. The parents who in Old Testament times called their son Ithiel (Prov. 30:1) - "God is with me" - did not believe their offspring to be Deity.

Names of this type indicate the divine event associated with the life of the individual so named. God, the Father of Jesus, was certainly with Israel as He worked through His unique Son. In the life of Jesus, the Son of God, God had visited His people.

A Trinitarian scholar of the last century wrote: "To maintain that the name Immanuel proves the doctrine [of the Deity of Jesus] is a fallacious argument, although many Trinitarians have urged it. Jerusalem is called 'Jehovah our Righteousness.' Is Jerusalem also Divine?"36

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36. Moses Stuart, Answer to Channing, cited in Concessions, 236.

Much better luck next times but read your Story book about another 1000 times before you try your luck against me again and give your past teachers a kick in their butt for deceiving you and leading you astray! Your past teachers were obviously Satan's agents masquerading as angels of light! but I'll do my best to stop you following in their corrupt steps any longer unless being your Satan's agent is your Free-Will choice also? (2 Cor. 11:14) KJV Story book
Composer
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1/27/2012 10:40:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote:
Well the bible firmly teaches that Jesus the logos/ Word of God (the other title for the Son) is God

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
(John 1:1)
For starters, Could you point out where it says Word = Story book jesus?

NB, The EMPHATIC Diaglott Original Greek NT Text Interlinear Footnotes, p. 313 Re: John 1:14 reads: -

14. Newcome in his Translation of the New Testament remarks, "Jesus the Son of God, is called the Word, because God revealed himself or his word by him." The following singular Eastern custom may perhaps illustrate the phraseology of the first part of this chapter. "In Abyssinia, there is an officer named Kal Hatze ; the word or voice of the king, who stands always upon the steps of the throne, at the side of a lattice window, where there is a hole, covered in the inside with a curtain of green taffeta. Behind this curtain the king sits; and speaks through the aperture to the Kal Hatze, who communicates his commands to the officers, judges, and attendants .- Bruce's travels (Composer writes: Thus we can see that Story book jesus was not "the Word" but rather his god's Word was "made manifest / manifested / reflected / revealed" THROUGH jesus.)

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote:
Your whole thread is about Jesus not being God incarnate and thus falsifying the Holy Trinity doctrine. Well as you can see, Jesus is God.
Proven Not according to your preferred Story book LOL!

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote:
. . . . Trinitarian doctrine teaches that he was fully man. It teaches he had two natures, a divine and a human nature. . . . .
Again you preach falsely -

1. How many natures does each man/Story book jesus' brothers & sisters have?

1 or 2?


Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, . . . . (Heb. 2:17) NET Story book

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote:
Dude, a Bishop is not infallible. Read the Catechism
of the Catholic Church.
Rules by liars and paedophiles to their duped fearful & dwindling educated congregation. LOL!

Much much better luck next times and thanks for the entertainment!

Next!
Wandile
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1/28/2012 7:31:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote
Not false nature... God simply adds onto his divine nature.

IF this Story book god needed to ' add something to itself ' then that would mean it was ' lacking ' before!

Yes he lacked a human nature, genius. We know that many times God said , "I am not a son of man". Clearly he was not human because he lacked a human nature.

You have no credibility and again I remind you that Story book god never alters -

e.g. For I [am] the LORD, I change not; . . . . (Mal. 3:6) KJV Story book

Your hypothesis that it needed to ' add to itself ' would necessitate a ' change ' which e.g. Mal. 3:6 states is impossible!

Nope it does not necessitate a change in God's divine nature (his true nature that does not alter). If God's true nature had to change then God would stop being God which I already know. Nowhere does it say taking on a second nature changes who God really is (his divine unalterable nature). In fact its affirmed by OT in genesis 18 when God became a man! HE'S DONE IT BEFORE, IT'S NOTHING NEW LOL!!

And we know that God does not lie. So if God does not alter like he said, yet he has become a man before, and God does not lie as stated before, then clearly he's not violating anything when he takes upon a second nature, a human one.

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote
Jesus claims to be God on several occasions. Want me quote the bible?
Quote your Story book by all means and let's hope you do better than this miserable effort!

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote
Even the Old Testament teaches the Messiah will be God. Just ask me to quote and I'll supply many messianic prophecies for.

You are obviously just another immature beginner and your scriptural knowledge extremely poor and even that spurious!

Hahaha this is funny. If anything you're clearly the one who's lacking in scriptural knowledge as all your examples don't refute anything. I'm even beginning to question whether you actually know what the Holy Trinity is and what the doctrine teaches.
Dude, I'm beginning to worry about you and your knowledge. Please don't disappoint me :(

There is no indication in the Old Testament that the Messiah would be a person before his conception. The very opposite was taught:

Really? No pre-existence of the messiah? Then please explain this messianic prophesy :

"But you Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from old, form days of eternity."
(Micah 5:2)

The Messiah would expressly not be God, but a unique, final "prophet like Moses," coming into being from a family in Israel (see Deut. 18:15-19; Acts 3:22; 7:37) - " It was impossible for the Apostles to identify Christ with Jehovah. Psalm 110:1 and Malachi 3:1 prevented this " (Charles C. Bigg, D.D. Regius Professor of Ecclesiastical History, Oxford, in International Critical Commentary on I Peter).

Oh he will be God, the prophecies explicitly say so :

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God
, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace.
(Isaiah 9:6)

There the coming deliverer is spoken of as one who shall sit upon the throne of David. Yet his kingdom is supposed to be everlasting, and he is even called the "Might God" as well as Everlasting Father, Wise Counsellor, Prince of Peace. There you have it, the deity of messiah presented in so many words.

Here are other prophecies :

"A voice of one calling ; 'in the desert prepare the way for YHWH, make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God'."
(Isaiah 40:3)

" 'The days are coming', declares YHWH, 'when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called : YHWH Our Righteousness."
(Jeremiah 23:5-6)

I can list tons more of such explicit prophecies. The prophet like Moses was not meant to be an ordinary man. He was supposed to be God in the flesh, our saviour.

"The Old Testament tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary implication of a triune God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a trinity within the God head. Even to see in the Old Testament, suggestions or fore-shadowings or veiled signs of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers.

Here are links on this as it is too much to explain here :

http://www.evidencetobelieve.net...
http://www.ericcsmith.wordpress.com...

The New Testament writers give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. Nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same God head. [The Triune God , by Edmund Fortman, Jesuit].

Trinitarian Formula taught by Jesus himself :

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit ..."
(Matthew 28:19)

The Father is called God :

I think this is undisputed but for arguments sake;

"How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!"
(1 John 3:1)

The Son is called God :

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Godhead lives in bodily form."
(Colossians 2:9)

"But of the Son He [the Father] says, 'Your throne, O God , will last forever and ever..."
(Hebrews 1:8)

"Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all , forever praised."
(Romans 9:5)

The Holy Spirit is called God :

"Then Peter said, 'Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit... You have not lied to men but to God
."
(Acts 5:3-4)

For more info : http://www.evidencetobelieve.net...

"Christendom has done away with Christianity without being quite aware of it" (Soren Kierkegaard, cited in Time magazine, Dec. 16, 1946, p. 64).

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote Again God becomes a man in Genesis 32 :22-31 and wrestles with Jacob to test him so that he could Jacob a blessing.
Story book confirms Jacob wrestled with a Story book angel -

He struggled with an angel and prevailed; . . . . (Hosea 12:4) NET Story book

Jacob struggled with the man, the Angel of the Lord, who is God. Even Jacob calls him God :

"So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, 'It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
(Genesis 32:30)

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote "... The virgin shall conceive and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel." (Isaiah 7:14)

Note : Immanuel means God with us.
Again Incorrect! -

Matthew 1:23 (Isaiah 7:14)
It is sometimes asserted that the name Immanuel - "God is with us" - given to Jesus proves that he is God. If that were so, then the child born soon after the prediction was given by Isaiah in the days of Ahaz, would also have been God.

The name, however, does not tell us that Jesus is God, but that in his life God has i
"Possibly deluded.... no way to confirm the veracity. That is an extraordinary claim to suggest billions the world over and throughout history are deluded. Proof?
Also if you actually believe these Billions of historical Christians are deluded, what gives you a warrant to special plead you are not equally self deluded within your own views? Sounds like self contradictory belief system you are under." - Gileandos

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice - Proverb
Wandile
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1/28/2012 7:33:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote "... The virgin shall conceive and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel." (Isaiah 7:14)

Note : Immanuel means God with us.
Again Incorrect! -

Matthew 1:23 (Isaiah 7:14)
It is sometimes asserted that the name Immanuel - "God is with us" - given to Jesus proves that he is God. If that were so, then the child born soon after the prediction was given by Isaiah in the days of Ahaz, would also have been God.

The name, however, does not tell us that Jesus is God, but that in his life God has intervened to save His people. The parents who in Old Testament times called their son Ithiel (Prov. 30:1) - "God is with me" - did not believe their offspring to be Deity.

Names of this type indicate the divine event associated with the life of the individual so named. God, the Father of Jesus, was certainly with Israel as He worked through His unique Son. In the life of Jesus, the Son of God, God had visited His people.

A Trinitarian scholar of the last century wrote: "To maintain that the name Immanuel proves the doctrine [of the Deity of Jesus] is a fallacious argument, although many Trinitarians have urged it. Jerusalem is called 'Jehovah our Righteousness.' Is Jerusalem also Divine?"36


I could easily debunk this but I don't even need the Immanuel reference to prove my case. All I have said above destroys your case already. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36. Moses Stuart, Answer to Channing, cited in Concessions, 236.

Much better luck next times but read your Story book about another 1000 times before you try your luck against me again and give your past teachers a kick in their butt for deceiving you and leading you astray! Your past teachers were obviously Satan's agents masquerading as angels of light! but I'll do my best to stop you following in their corrupt steps any longer unless being your Satan's agent is your Free-Will choice also? (2 Cor. 11:14) KJV Story book

Haha whatever dude. I would watch my mouth if I were you. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.

God bless
"Possibly deluded.... no way to confirm the veracity. That is an extraordinary claim to suggest billions the world over and throughout history are deluded. Proof?
Also if you actually believe these Billions of historical Christians are deluded, what gives you a warrant to special plead you are not equally self deluded within your own views? Sounds like self contradictory belief system you are under." - Gileandos

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice - Proverb
Wandile
Posts: 97
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1/28/2012 8:16:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/27/2012 10:40:44 PM, Composer wrote:
At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote:
Well the bible firmly teaches that Jesus the logos/ Word of God (the other title for the Son) is God

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
(John 1:1)
For starters, Could you point out where it says Word = Story book jesus?

John 1:14 says it all :)

I'm really starting to question whether you actually know anything about the bible as any knowledgeable person of the bible should know that Jesus is the Word of God.

NB, The EMPHATIC Diaglott Original Greek NT Text Interlinear Footnotes, p. 313 Re: John 1:14 reads: -

14. Newcome in his Translation of the New Testament remarks, "Jesus the Son of God, is called the Word, because God revealed himself or his word by him." The following singular Eastern custom may perhaps illustrate the phraseology of the first part of this chapter. "In Abyssinia, there is an officer named Kal Hatze ; the word or voice of the king, who stands always upon the steps of the throne, at the side of a lattice window, where there is a hole, covered in the inside with a curtain of green taffeta. Behind this curtain the king sits; and speaks through the aperture to the Kal Hatze, who communicates his commands to the officers, judges, and attendants .- Bruce's travels (Composer writes: Thus we can see that Story book jesus was not "the Word" but rather his god's Word was "made manifest / manifested / reflected / revealed" THROUGH jesus.)

Did you even read that passage properly?

Lol this supports trinitarian doctrine and everything I said. Jesus through all this can and rightfully is called the Word. The word was God. The was manifested in the flesh (made a man) which is taught in John 1:14. Jesus is the Word of God, the one who speaks for the Father.

"In the past God spoke through our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..."
(Hebrews 1:2)

But just to solidify Jesus as the Word :

"He [Jesus, the Rider on the white horse] is dressed in a robe of dipped blood, and his name is the Word of God."
(Revelation 19:13)

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote:
Your whole thread is about Jesus not being God incarnate and thus falsifying the Holy Trinity doctrine. Well as you can see, Jesus is God.
Proven Not according to your preferred Story book LOL!

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote:
. . . . Trinitarian doctrine teaches that he was fully man. It teaches he had two natures, a divine and a human nature. . . . .
Again you preach falsely -

Hahaha this is hilarious. It has been confirmed everybody! Composer has no idea what the Holy Trinity is nor what the doctrine teaches. He doesn't even know the doctrine of Hypostatic Union!

Here buddy, let me help you : http://www.theopedia.com...

1. How many natures does each man/Story book jesus' brothers & sisters have?

1 or 2?


I'm Catholic so we don't believe that Jesus had siblings. But for the sake of argument, if Jesus had siblings, then they would have had 1 nature... I can't believe you even asked this.

Jesus was divinely conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus' supposed siblings would have been conceived naturally through the seed of Joseph.

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, . . . . (Heb. 2:17) NET Story book

This is a pathetic argument. Your worst so far.

Oh my goodness! It's referring to christian brethren and the human nature of Jesus. Read the whole chapter about how Jesus had to be made lower than angels by temporarily taking on a human nature so that he may be like us. His human nature was like us, in every way just as verse 17 says.

Quick tip : READ THE PASSAGE IN CONTEXT.

At 1/27/2012 5:58:24 AM, Wandile wrote:
Dude, a Bishop is not infallible. Read the Catechism
of the Catholic Church.
Rules by liars and paedophiles to their duped fearful & dwindling educated congregation. LOL!

Funny how you say rules made by liars but the Catholic Church is the church where the Trinity doctrine is derived and it's teachings are written down in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Concerning the paedophile thing. Yes there have been numerous cases of this which the church is not proud of. One thing you need to remember is that priests are human meaning they are as likely to do evil acts as anyone else. You charge the church and tease it for this but yet atheists do the same thing. How can you call all of the priests paedophiles when its only a few that really are. Paedophiles?

What was your point of calling them paedophiles? How does that disprove the Holy trinity in any way?

Much much better luck next times and thanks for the entertainment!

Next!

Cute ending to you rebuttal :)... Maybe I should try using it.

Next better atheist please? This guy is done with
"Possibly deluded.... no way to confirm the veracity. That is an extraordinary claim to suggest billions the world over and throughout history are deluded. Proof?
Also if you actually believe these Billions of historical Christians are deluded, what gives you a warrant to special plead you are not equally self deluded within your own views? Sounds like self contradictory belief system you are under." - Gileandos

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice - Proverb
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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1/28/2012 10:05:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

YES! The WORD of God: His meaning, His intention: His goodness and mercy is in Christ Jesus..

It's the same as when we talk to children, we talk to them on their level.. That is Jesus!
The Cross.. the Cross.
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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1/28/2012 10:14:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 10:05:45 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

YES! The WORD of God: His meaning, His intention: His goodness and mercy is in Christ Jesus..

It's the same as when we talk to children, we talk to them on their level.. That is Jesus!

Jesus is talking to me as if I'm a child? That explains why I find the Bible patronising as well as offensive.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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1/28/2012 10:17:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 10:14:03 AM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 1/28/2012 10:05:45 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

YES! The WORD of God: His meaning, His intention: His goodness and mercy is in Christ Jesus..

It's the same as when we talk to children, we talk to them on their level.. That is Jesus!

Jesus is talking to me as if I'm a child? That explains why I find the Bible patronising as well as offensive.
Yep, that's your PRIDE, and it's death..
The Cross.. the Cross.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/28/2012 10:18:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 10:17:19 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 1/28/2012 10:14:03 AM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 1/28/2012 10:05:45 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 1/26/2012 12:24:33 AM, Composer wrote:
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? (1 Kings 8:27) KJV story book

So trinitarians believe that the ' heaven of heavens ' can not contain their god, but tiny little Mary's Womb literally did? LOL!

YES! The WORD of God: His meaning, His intention: His goodness and mercy is in Christ Jesus..

It's the same as when we talk to children, we talk to them on their level.. That is Jesus!

Jesus is talking to me as if I'm a child? That explains why I find the Bible patronising as well as offensive.
Yep, that's your PRIDE, and it's death..

Proof?