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Is God "dead"?

I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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6/3/2009 3:33:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I've noticed that hundreds of years ago, stories of supernatural experiences with God were not uncommon. However they are almost non-existent now. What happened. I have an idea. God died. Or is in some sort of dream like state. He reaches out to certain people. But disasters are always happening. Global warming, wars, etc are happening and God is not interfering. Some would say God is simply keeping things in balance. However he is omnipotent. So, he is probably dead, or something knocked him out.

Thoughts?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Lexicaholic
Posts: 526
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6/3/2009 4:13:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/3/2009 3:33:50 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I've noticed that hundreds of years ago, stories of supernatural experiences with God were not uncommon. However they are almost non-existent now. What happened. I have an idea. God died. Or is in some sort of dream like state. He reaches out to certain people. But disasters are always happening. Global warming, wars, etc are happening and God is not interfering. Some would say God is simply keeping things in balance. However he is omnipotent. So, he is probably dead, or something knocked him out.

Thoughts?

Can an idea ever truly die?

To be entirely fair, it may be surprising to note that the reason I am an agnostic and not an atheist is because of personal experiences I and those around me have had with somewhat bizarre circumstances and coincidences bordering well beyond chance (which I would get into, but that's personal). However, as I can not produce any empirical evidence of those experiences (who really carries a camera around with them, or a voice recorder?) I feel that it is best I attribute those experiences to mere illusions induced by stress or exceptionally noticeable coincidence, depending on the experience. I would feel wholly convinced if others had not witnessed those experiences with me ...

In any event, people still do claim to meet God or receive help from his messengers. Similarly, people in other parts of the world report similar culturally skewed miracles. For the time being I can not discount such accounts callously, as occasionally the amazing does truly happen. See embedded videos for some amazing, if weird, stuff:
http://mastersofcreationrpg.com... - My new site and long-developed project. Should be fun.
Nik
Posts: 552
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6/3/2009 5:01:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The stories of supernatural experiences with god were disasters, lightning, earthquake, volcano. Previously, before anyone could explain these events people looked at god as the answer. Nowadays we know the reasons behind them so we know its not god, and it merely adds proof to the fact that god does not exsist.
"If you could tell the world but one truth, I could convince it of a thousand lies"
Lexicaholic
Posts: 526
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6/3/2009 5:31:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/3/2009 5:01:33 PM, Nik wrote:
The stories of supernatural experiences with god were disasters, lightning, earthquake, volcano. Previously, before anyone could explain these events people looked at god as the answer. Nowadays we know the reasons behind them so we know its not god, and it merely adds proof to the fact that god does not exsist.

Well, yes, that was part of the move from animism to polytheism that appears to occur generally in most religions. I thought the discussion was about experiences that defied explanation and tended to suggest divine interference, not about whether or not people still attributed ordinarily occurring phenomena to divine interaction.
http://mastersofcreationrpg.com... - My new site and long-developed project. Should be fun.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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6/3/2009 7:00:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
God rules over the unknown. The more we know, the less of a domain God has.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Nik
Posts: 552
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6/3/2009 7:12:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/3/2009 5:31:51 PM, Lexicaholic wrote:
At 6/3/2009 5:01:33 PM, Nik wrote:
The stories of supernatural experiences with god were disasters, lightning, earthquake, volcano. Previously, before anyone could explain these events people looked at god as the answer. Nowadays we know the reasons behind them so we know its not god, and it merely adds proof to the fact that god does not exsist.

Well, yes, that was part of the move from animism to polytheism that appears to occur generally in most religions. I thought the discussion was about experiences that defied explanation and tended to suggest divine interference, not about whether or not people still attributed ordinarily occurring phenomena to divine interaction.

Well yes thats my point, they did defy explanation, at the time. Events such as the spliting of the red sea, and such forth, are in my opinion but folk tale, passed down and exaggerated and were eventually incorporated into a wider religion.

Remember the great pyramid was bulit upoun the miracle belief that the pharaoh would be able to ascend to heaven up his own pyramid, that is now considered stupid by atheists and heretical by christians.

My knowledge of the the miracular biblical experiences is at best small, but from what I do know all can be proved as natural events.
"If you could tell the world but one truth, I could convince it of a thousand lies"
youngdebater
Posts: 28
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6/3/2009 8:40:17 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/3/2009 3:33:50 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I've noticed that hundreds of years ago, stories of supernatural experiences with God were not uncommon. However they are almost non-existent now. What happened. I have an idea. God died. Or is in some sort of dream like state. He reaches out to certain people. But disasters are always happening. Global warming, wars, etc are happening and God is not interfering. Some would say God is simply keeping things in balance. However he is omnipotent. So, he is probably dead, or something knocked him out.

Thoughts?

my best explanation is that god never existed. of corse stories like that used to happen but i believe they are only stories. in the past there was no internet to second source people so these stories may have been passed along and revised and concidered true along the years.

now i dont believe in god (i used to). if you are religious and looking for an answer to fit what you believe, i have an explanation that i have heard from a pastor: after the old testament and before the new testament, there was 400 (or 4000, i dont remember) years where god was silent. after those years he sent jesus. jesus rose again. god is going through annother couple years of silence before he will send jesus back for the second comming
I-am-a-panda
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6/4/2009 4:14:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
This was just a humorous jab at religion. Personally, I think a God-like being was the cause of the big bang. After that, he had no bearing. No reason to worship him.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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6/4/2009 7:30:01 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/4/2009 4:14:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
This was just a humorous jab at religion. Personally, I think a God-like being was the cause of the big bang. After that, he had no bearing. No reason to worship him.

Humorous in which sense? not the 'actually being funny' sense surely?

God was dead.
Then God raised Him to Life.
Amen.

Acts 2:32 (New King James Version)
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.

The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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6/4/2009 11:35:12 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/4/2009 7:30:01 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/4/2009 4:14:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
This was just a humorous jab at religion. Personally, I think a God-like being was the cause of the big bang. After that, he had no bearing. No reason to worship him.

Humorous in which sense? not the 'actually being funny' sense surely?

God was dead.
Then God raised Him to Life.
Amen.

God cannot die and then come back to life. Fallacious.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/4/2009 12:29:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
"I looked the worthless Atheist square in his eyes
To see if God is still alive, we both cried
...I am not alone in my pursuit to replace God" - Canibus

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
iixis
Posts: 16
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6/4/2009 1:55:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/3/2009 3:33:50 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I've noticed that hundreds of years ago, stories of supernatural experiences with God were not uncommon. However they are almost non-existent now. What happened. I have an idea. God died. Or is in some sort of dream like state. He reaches out to certain people. But disasters are always happening. Global warming, wars, etc are happening and God is not interfering. Some would say God is simply keeping things in balance. However he is omnipotent. So, he is probably dead, or something knocked him out.

Thoughts?

As our ability to document history increases, the frequency and magnitude of miracles decreases.

This isn't a coincidence, it's just harder to spread lies and myths now. God was always dead.
iixis
Posts: 16
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6/4/2009 5:43:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/4/2009 3:58:02 PM, iixis wrote:
Who.. are you talking to? The OP or me?

Hah.. ignore that, I just realized panda IS the OP.

But who were you talking to? Me?
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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6/4/2009 11:13:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/4/2009 11:35:12 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/4/2009 7:30:01 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/4/2009 4:14:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
This was just a humorous jab at religion. Personally, I think a God-like being was the cause of the big bang. After that, he had no bearing. No reason to worship him.

Humorous in which sense? not the 'actually being funny' sense surely?

God was dead.
Then God raised Him to Life.
Amen.

God cannot die and then come back to life. Fallacious.

That's a big word for you. Well done.

You have omitted to espouse your grand metaphysical treatise on why God cannot die.

Acts 3:15 (New International Version)
15You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.
The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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6/5/2009 3:13:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/4/2009 5:43:35 PM, iixis wrote:
At 6/4/2009 3:58:02 PM, iixis wrote:
Who.. are you talking to? The OP or me?

Hah.. ignore that, I just realized panda IS the OP.

But who were you talking to? Me?

Yes, you.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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6/5/2009 3:17:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/4/2009 11:13:14 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/4/2009 11:35:12 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/4/2009 7:30:01 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/4/2009 4:14:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
This was just a humorous jab at religion. Personally, I think a God-like being was the cause of the big bang. After that, he had no bearing. No reason to worship him.

Humorous in which sense? not the 'actually being funny' sense surely?

God was dead.
Then God raised Him to Life.
Amen.

God cannot die and then come back to life. Fallacious.

That's a big word for you. Well done.

You have omitted to espouse your grand metaphysical treatise on why God cannot die.


How long did it take you to find those words in the Thesaurus?

I never said God cannot die. I said he cannot be dead and come back to life without being alive in the first place. And he cannot bring himself back to life.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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6/5/2009 6:39:39 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/5/2009 3:17:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/4/2009 11:13:14 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/4/2009 11:35:12 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/4/2009 7:30:01 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/4/2009 4:14:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
This was just a humorous jab at religion. Personally, I think a God-like being was the cause of the big bang. After that, he had no bearing. No reason to worship him.

Humorous in which sense? not the 'actually being funny' sense surely?

God was dead.
Then God raised Him to Life.
Amen.

God cannot die and then come back to life. Fallacious.

That's a big word for you. Well done.

You have omitted to espouse your grand metaphysical treatise on why God cannot die.


How long did it take you to find those words in the Thesaurus?

I never said God cannot die. I said he cannot be dead and come back to life without being alive in the first place. And he cannot bring himself back to life.

And still we wait for the why..

1 Corinthians 15:4 (New King James Version)
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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6/5/2009 6:46:42 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/5/2009 6:39:39 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/5/2009 3:17:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/4/2009 11:13:14 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/4/2009 11:35:12 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/4/2009 7:30:01 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/4/2009 4:14:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
This was just a humorous jab at religion. Personally, I think a God-like being was the cause of the big bang. After that, he had no bearing. No reason to worship him.

Humorous in which sense? not the 'actually being funny' sense surely?

God was dead.
Then God raised Him to Life.
Amen.

God cannot die and then come back to life. Fallacious.

That's a big word for you. Well done.

You have omitted to espouse your grand metaphysical treatise on why God cannot die.


How long did it take you to find those words in the Thesaurus?

I never said God cannot die. I said he cannot be dead and come back to life without being alive in the first place. And he cannot bring himself back to life.

And still we wait for the why..

Because something, anything, must exist before it can cease existing. And it cannot bring itself from non-existence to existence.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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6/6/2009 5:38:58 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/5/2009 6:46:42 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

That's a big word for you. Well done.

You have omitted to espouse your grand metaphysical treatise on why God cannot die.


How long did it take you to find those words in the Thesaurus?

I never said God cannot die. I said he cannot be dead and come back to life without being alive in the first place. And he cannot bring himself back to life.

And still we wait for the why..

Because something, anything, must exist before it can cease existing. And it cannot bring itself from non-existence to existence.

This is because you neither understand Life or, for that matter, death.

Allow me..

Genesis 2:17 (New King James Version)
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."


Mmm. In that day you shall surely die. But in Genesis 5:3 we learn that Adam lived 130 years before fathering a third son, Seth:

Genesis 5:3 (New King James Version)
3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.


So God could not have been talking about physical death in His warning; He was referring to Spiritual death which is SEPERATION FROM GOD.

Now, you have defined death as 'non existence' but this is simply not the case.
Anyone condemned to an eternity of final separation from God (hell) will still exist although be dead in both senses of the word. (physically and spiritually)

When we Christians state that 'Christ died for us' we mean to say that He died physically but MUCH more importantly, He died spiritually.
He separated from God. He paid the price for us:

Mark 15:33-34 (New King James Version)

33 Now when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

With me so far?
Christ did not 'disappear' for three days, He went to hell. He preached to all those souls who had died without hearing the Gospel.

1 Peter 3:18-20 (New International Version)
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[a] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

So death, in the sense that you use it, does not exist and Life, in the sense that you use it, is actually death. (separation from God)

Questions?

Matthew 12:30 (The Message)

30"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.

The Cross.. the Cross.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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6/6/2009 6:15:26 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 6/3/2009 7:00:05 PM, Kleptin wrote:
God rules over the unknown. The more we know, the less of a domain God has.

A little like evolution then? The less we no about science the more we say it evolved. Some say.

Focus on your self not on the world, Jesus said YOU follow me.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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6/6/2009 6:26:18 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 6/6/2009 6:15:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
: At 6/3/2009 7:00:05 PM, Kleptin wrote:
God rules over the unknown. The more we know, the less of a domain God has.

A little like evolution then? The less we no about science the more we say it evolved. Some say.

Focus on you r self not on the world, Jesus said YOU follow me.


The more we claim creatures evolved, since they are the most complex of things in the physical universe. It must have evolved slowly though, because I, (MY SELF) can not see any change. Like God is inviciable, no one can see evolution occur, strange that, huh? Choose one because those are the only two ways, through what people see as sinful or to what people see as good. You will never say it is good of you to get drunk, but I can always say it is evil of you to get drunk due to its affects it has. God therefore is good. You will always support those who do good, if it does not benefit them for a couple of hours, through sinful pleasures.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/27/2009 8:18:37 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/27/2009 8:13:16 AM, wjmelements wrote:
Is God dead?

What do you propose could kill God?

God could kill God.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/27/2009 8:20:46 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/27/2009 8:18:37 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:13:16 AM, wjmelements wrote:
Is God dead?

What do you propose could kill God?

God could kill God.

Agreed. But would an omnibenevolent God kill Himself?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/27/2009 8:24:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/27/2009 8:20:46 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:18:37 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:13:16 AM, wjmelements wrote:
Is God dead?

What do you propose could kill God?

God could kill God.

Agreed. But would an omnibenevolent God kill Himself?

If He saw that His death would create more good than bad, He could.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/27/2009 8:32:36 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/27/2009 8:24:19 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:20:46 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:18:37 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:13:16 AM, wjmelements wrote:
Is God dead?

What do you propose could kill God?

God could kill God.

Agreed. But would an omnibenevolent God kill Himself?

If He saw that His death would create more good than bad, He could.

Destruction of an omnibenevolent omnipotent would not result in more good than bad.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/27/2009 10:41:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/27/2009 8:32:36 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:24:19 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:20:46 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:18:37 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/27/2009 8:13:16 AM, wjmelements wrote:
Is God dead?

What do you propose could kill God?

God could kill God.

Agreed. But would an omnibenevolent God kill Himself?

If He saw that His death would create more good than bad, He could.

Destruction of an omnibenevolent omnipotent would not result in more good than bad.

Only if the reality relied on his omnibenevolent omnipotence. If it doesn't, then it is possible.