Total Posts:17|Showing Posts:1-17
Jump to topic:

Contact with Jodi Foster

rogue
Posts: 2,325
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/5/2012 10:51:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I watched it a while ago and I remember the theist claiming that Occam's razor was on his side. I don't know that much about Sagan but I'd always doubted that that was in the actual book. Has any one here read the book?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
inferno
Posts: 10,556
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2012 10:56:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

So you are implying that with this so called empirical evidence, then you would be a believer. Well, that is what I have been saying to you all the long. It is about the experiences and supernatural. If you have not witness the things other have, then you cannot say that what they have seen is not real. That is being overtly selective and plain stupid.
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2012 1:05:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

Technically speaking, there was empirical evidence. 18 hours of blank tape, plus the 'space signal'. Granted she didn't know that the tape was blank.

I never read the book, but the movie confused me. Were I in Foster's shoes, I would have to believe that I had suffered a mental breakdown of some sort. I say this because the idea that aliens would simply erase the evidence (or whatever they did) and leave it up to the 'faith' of the organism seems very strange. I mean, they sent the signal (our broadcasts encrypted) in the first place - why make sure that there was nothing tangible from the trip?

Also, why wouldn't the Gov send another person through - even if they didn't believe Foster? Maybe the first test was an aberration?
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2012 2:52:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

Yes, Contact is an excellent film. The opening shot is a total mindf*ck. There is a real sense of venturing into the unknown. Meeting Dad at the end was a tad twee, but generally it was great. I especially liked the "aliens" style of communication - signalling all the prime numbers up to 101.
rogue
Posts: 2,325
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2012 7:31:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/6/2012 10:56:52 AM, inferno wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

So you are implying that with this so called empirical evidence, then you would be a believer. Well, that is what I have been saying to you all the long. It is about the experiences and supernatural. If you have not witness the things other have, then you cannot say that what they have seen is not real. That is being overtly selective and plain stupid.

Not really. I also said that personal experience was not empirical proof. I also said that the personal experiences should be scrutinized which I doubt you have done. Plus Jodi Foster's character isn't dumb enough to think that he reasons for believing should be good enough for anyone besides her. She realizes it would be idiotic to believe what she said actually happened actually happened knowing what they know. Personal experience doesn't trump empirical evidence, but I can understand how personal experience could make someone a believer. I highly doubt you had any experience even close to what she had. There is no reason to believe in God on someone else's experiences or think "I'm stupid and being overly selective because I have not had personal experiences with the supernatural and because of that I don't believe in the supernatural." When there is no evidence or personal experience, it is only rational not to believe.
rogue
Posts: 2,325
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2012 7:33:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/6/2012 1:05:29 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

Technically speaking, there was empirical evidence. 18 hours of blank tape, plus the 'space signal'. Granted she didn't know that the tape was blank.

My point was that she didn't know and if I were in her case, I wouldn't know.

I never read the book, but the movie confused me. Were I in Foster's shoes, I would have to believe that I had suffered a mental breakdown of some sort. I say this because the idea that aliens would simply erase the evidence (or whatever they did) and leave it up to the 'faith' of the organism seems very strange. I mean, they sent the signal (our broadcasts encrypted) in the first place - why make sure that there was nothing tangible from the trip?

I don't think they aliens made the technology not work, I think it just couldn't work where she was for some reason.

Also, why wouldn't the Gov send another person through - even if they didn't believe Foster? Maybe the first test was an aberration?

I don't know I thought that too. Was the machine destroyed afterwards?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2012 10:20:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Interesting note, the movie 'contact' laid groundwork for my conversion. It laid a foundation understanding of the universal nature of numbers and math. It made the claim that aliens would also speak mathematics and that sent my mind spinning.

Funny that Carl Sagan has done more to convince me of theism that he never believed in. Amazing when you think about it.

He convinced me mathematics was indeed outside of us and something real as the Aliens would certainly have used it to communicate with us. It led me down a walk of logic, philosophy and mathematics as outside of human conception.

He also laid the groundwork understanding and convinced me of the Christian claims of demon experiences, Angels and ghosts etc... Here is a video where he explains that too.

He had done more through science to convince me of God than any evangelist.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2012 11:23:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I'm a fan too.. Although I would not be happy if an alien pretended to be my long lost dead Dad!

But it does raise an important point; I, personally, have had a revelation from Jesus Christ.. And there's no way I can prove this to you!
The Cross.. the Cross.
inferno
Posts: 10,556
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2012 11:32:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/6/2012 7:31:27 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/6/2012 10:56:52 AM, inferno wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

So you are implying that with this so called empirical evidence, then you would be a believer. Well, that is what I have been saying to you all the long. It is about the experiences and supernatural. If you have not witness the things other have, then you cannot say that what they have seen is not real. That is being overtly selective and plain stupid.

Not really. I also said that personal experience was not empirical proof. I also said that the personal experiences should be scrutinized which I doubt you have done. Plus Jodi Foster's character isn't dumb enough to think that he reasons for believing should be good enough for anyone besides her. She realizes it would be idiotic to believe what she said actually happened actually happened knowing what they know. Personal experience doesn't trump empirical evidence, but I can understand how personal experience could make someone a believer. I highly doubt you had any experience even close to what she had. There is no reason to believe in God on someone else's experiences or think "I'm stupid and being overly selective because I have not had personal experiences with the supernatural and because of that I don't believe in the supernatural." When there is no evidence or personal experience, it is only rational not to believe.

I cannot give you physical proof. Or can I ? I have an idea. You Atheists are going to love my next project for the month of February. I think that you will be more open to the fact that the supernatural existence once this is exposed to you...........
rogue
Posts: 2,325
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2012 6:40:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 11:23:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I'm a fan too.. Although I would not be happy if an alien pretended to be my long lost dead Dad!

Yeah. I mean they were trying to make her feel comfortable, but it was a little insensitive. But who knows if aliens have a sense of insensitivity lol?

But it does raise an important point; I, personally, have had a revelation from Jesus Christ.. And there's no way I can prove this to you!

So you should not expect me to believe you.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/10/2012 2:23:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 6:40:19 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/9/2012 11:23:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I'm a fan too.. Although I would not be happy if an alien pretended to be my long lost dead Dad!

Yeah. I mean they were trying to make her feel comfortable, but it was a little insensitive. But who knows if aliens have a sense of insensitivity lol?

But it does raise an important point; I, personally, have had a revelation from Jesus Christ.. And there's no way I can prove this to you!

So you should not expect me to believe you.

But is it at all possible? Or have you dismissed the possibility of receiving revelation yourself?
The Cross.. the Cross.
rogue
Posts: 2,325
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/10/2012 11:09:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 2:23:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/9/2012 6:40:19 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/9/2012 11:23:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I'm a fan too.. Although I would not be happy if an alien pretended to be my long lost dead Dad!

Yeah. I mean they were trying to make her feel comfortable, but it was a little insensitive. But who knows if aliens have a sense of insensitivity lol?

But it does raise an important point; I, personally, have had a revelation from Jesus Christ.. And there's no way I can prove this to you!

So you should not expect me to believe you.

But is it at all possible? Or have you dismissed the possibility of receiving revelation yourself?

It is possible, but extremely implausible.
Brain_crazy
Posts: 242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2012 6:31:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 2:23:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/9/2012 6:40:19 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/9/2012 11:23:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I'm a fan too.. Although I would not be happy if an alien pretended to be my long lost dead Dad!

Yeah. I mean they were trying to make her feel comfortable, but it was a little insensitive. But who knows if aliens have a sense of insensitivity lol?

But it does raise an important point; I, personally, have had a revelation from Jesus Christ.. And there's no way I can prove this to you!

So you should not expect me to believe you.

But is it at all possible? Or have you dismissed the possibility of receiving revelation yourself?

Tell us the story my friend
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2012 5:41:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 11:09:04 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/10/2012 2:23:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/9/2012 6:40:19 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/9/2012 11:23:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I'm a fan too.. Although I would not be happy if an alien pretended to be my long lost dead Dad!

Yeah. I mean they were trying to make her feel comfortable, but it was a little insensitive. But who knows if aliens have a sense of insensitivity lol?

But it does raise an important point; I, personally, have had a revelation from Jesus Christ.. And there's no way I can prove this to you!

So you should not expect me to believe you.

But is it at all possible? Or have you dismissed the possibility of receiving revelation yourself?

It is possible, but extremely implausible.

That's a semantic two-step.. hold on to that possibility! (and kick out the implausibiltiy!) for HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL!
The Cross.. the Cross.
rogue
Posts: 2,325
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2012 9:45:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/14/2012 5:41:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/10/2012 11:09:04 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/10/2012 2:23:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/9/2012 6:40:19 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/9/2012 11:23:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I'm a fan too.. Although I would not be happy if an alien pretended to be my long lost dead Dad!

Yeah. I mean they were trying to make her feel comfortable, but it was a little insensitive. But who knows if aliens have a sense of insensitivity lol?

But it does raise an important point; I, personally, have had a revelation from Jesus Christ.. And there's no way I can prove this to you!

So you should not expect me to believe you.

But is it at all possible? Or have you dismissed the possibility of receiving revelation yourself?

It is possible, but extremely implausible.

That's a semantic two-step.. hold on to that possibility! (and kick out the implausibiltiy!) for HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL!

Um no, I am going to be rational about this and not just hope for things because I want them to be true.
inferno
Posts: 10,556
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/15/2012 11:25:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/14/2012 9:45:36 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/14/2012 5:41:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/10/2012 11:09:04 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/10/2012 2:23:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/9/2012 6:40:19 PM, rogue wrote:
At 2/9/2012 11:23:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/5/2012 8:49:25 PM, rogue wrote:
Just watched this movie again for the first time since I was little. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. But to the point:

I was amazed and inspired how Carl Sagan managed to put the atheist in the traditional theistic position of "I don't have any proof, but as a person I know this is so." And even more amazingly he was able to make the theists the skeptics. It was the first time in a long time I have been able to empathize with theists. I know that if I had an experience about God that was as powerful as the experience Jodi Foster's character had, I would become a theist and probably nothing could change my mind. It made me have respect for people who truly feel they have had these experiences. I think it is important to investigate these experiences as I would and she did though. Without empirical evidence, that is what it would take to make me believe.

I'm a fan too.. Although I would not be happy if an alien pretended to be my long lost dead Dad!

Yeah. I mean they were trying to make her feel comfortable, but it was a little insensitive. But who knows if aliens have a sense of insensitivity lol?

But it does raise an important point; I, personally, have had a revelation from Jesus Christ.. And there's no way I can prove this to you!

So you should not expect me to believe you.

But is it at all possible? Or have you dismissed the possibility of receiving revelation yourself?

It is possible, but extremely implausible.

That's a semantic two-step.. hold on to that possibility! (and kick out the implausibiltiy!) for HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL!

Um no, I am going to be rational about this and not just hope for things because I want them to be true.

Have you ever seen They Live, by John Carpenter.
How about End Of Days.
Or better yet, The Devils Adovcate.