Total Posts:62|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

My Two Questions (to alleged christians)

Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?
MarquisX
Posts: 925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2012 2:27:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)
Yes. And are you asking for evidence that Christians believe in free will?

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?
Yes. A huge part of Christianity is recognizing that you are not perfect and that you need to ask for God's forgiveness when you make a mistake.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2012 2:11:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/12/2012 2:27:58 AM, MarquisX wrote:
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)
Yes. And are you asking for evidence that Christians believe in free will?
Yes I am! thanks?

It has also been my long time experience that those claiming to be christians are
i) Unable to legitimately demonstrate so according to the promises ' already a given to ANY such alleged legitimate believer in their preferred Story book (bible)! '.

ii) Those ' claiming to be christians also rarely actually agree / not like-minded on even their most basic/fundamental ideological answers?

At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

At 2/12/2012 2:27:58 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Yes. A huge part of Christianity is recognizing that you are not perfect and that you need to ask for God's forgiveness when you make a mistake.
Looking forward to supplementary evidence by those claiming to be christians that they are assured of a genuine Free-Will?

My points shall become known as the various answers are received!
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2012 6:06:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

I believe in free will yes, but that doesn't mean we are equally free.. we all have freedom of thought, and by judging certain things 'good' or 'bad' we can change our behaviour.. but we can only know what is right or wrong by the objective, eternal standard: God.

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

Yes, but the difference is that I know hate the sin I once loved.. Also, I sin much less and less often. this is growth.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/15/2012 1:42:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

What is the intent for the wording "a Free-Will for all". I can't respond unless I know how you mean it in the "christian" connection of it.

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

Those "calling" themselves "christians" still do sin. This is a loaded question, because of the wording of the question . It's kind of a setup, always watch the way a question is phrased. Intending to get only one kind of an answer the questioner intends to get. Think this through!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/15/2012 2:27:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/15/2012 1:42:32 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

What is the intent for the wording "a Free-Will for all". I can't respond unless I know how you mean it in the "christian" connection of it.

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

Those "calling" themselves "christians" still do sin. This is a loaded question, because of the wording of the question . It's kind of a setup, always watch the way a question is phrased. Intending to get only one kind of an answer the questioner intends to get. Think this through!
I am simply trying to determine 2 things at the moment as expressed in my 2 questions I'll put another way for you asking the same things? 1. Do those who think they are christians still sin? 2. Do those who think they are christians believe they and all others have a Free-Will and why they do or do not believe that?

As those questions frighten you & you perceive as ' loaded, LOL! ', perhaps you could ask them in the way YOU believe they should have been asked and in a way I also get my truthful answers?
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/15/2012 12:03:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

I am christian, I believe in Free Will. Gods character is that of Love, and an all loving god expresses his sovereignty by allowing for free will. Free will is the only logical answer to the POE as well, I do not think the 'predestination' explanation of 'our sin brings glory to god, thats why god makes us do it, it makes for a better novel that he is writing"

2. Do those calling themselves Christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

yes, after being saved it is still possible for you to sin, just like after graduating school is still possible for you to misspell sometimes.

Jesus is needed as our savior because we cannot stop sinning without him, we are that corrupted, we cannot earn our own salvation. to understand this you have to first get the basics of 'grace'

I do take the rare position on 'sanctification' wich is a Methodist belief. though we still may sin after we are saved, being FREE from sin means we are FREE from sin and it is now possible for us to truly stop through Christ. but to do that takes a very strong faith and total reliance on christ in everything. thats no easy thing to just do and its not a discipline that occurs over nite.

the change to the christian life is a drastic one and and on our journey to become more christian-like we are not free from temptation, and so long as we are not free from it we are not immune to failing to rise above it. its possible you could keep sinning until Christ returns and your body is glorified and perfected at which point none shall sin again.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)
1A) I am a Christian not a christian.
1B) Yes.
1C) I am not aware of any other viable alternative to human will other than free will.

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?
2A) Again, I am a Christian not a christian.
2B) I Jesus is a proper name. Stop being disrespectful if you want Christians to honestly answer you.
2C) Of course I sin; I am not perfect. Most of the time I go out of my way not to sin, but sometimes I cannot help myself.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/15/2012 11:52:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/15/2012 2:27:12 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/15/2012 1:42:32 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

What is the intent for the wording "a Free-Will for all". I can't respond unless I know how you mean it in the "christian" connection of it.

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

Those "calling" themselves "christians" still do sin. This is a loaded question, because of the wording of the question . It's kind of a setup, always watch the way a question is phrased. Intending to get only one kind of an answer the questioner intends to get. Think this through!
I am simply trying to determine 2 things at the moment as expressed in my 2 questions I'll put another way for you asking the same things? 1. Do those who think they are christians still sin? 2. Do those who think they are christians believe they and all others have a Free-Will and why they do or do not believe that?

As those questions frighten you & you perceive as ' loaded, LOL! ', perhaps you could ask them in the way YOU believe they should have been asked and in a way I also get my truthful answers?

So now that you know me so well as to think that these questions frighten me then you can answer these questions on my behalf.
And I'm simply trying to understand whats next, I'm trying to think before I speak
just as I believe you are too!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 12:24:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
1A) I am a Christian not a christian.
Your ' saying so ' means nothing of value!

Are you prepared to take the tests of a genuine Story book jesus' believer as laid out in your preferred Story book ' already a given promises, attributes & mnanifestations of any such a genuine person? ', legitimately pass them all as I present them Step by Step, and IF you are legitimately successful and don't make the typical BS excuses for your failures, we'll talk again of your claims of genuineness!

Please start a Thread/Debate e.g. tBoonePickens' attempt to prove he is worthy to be a genuine christian according to his own bible? (As I said, IF you ever pass ALL those tests legitimately, we'll speak more about your legitimacy!)

Let me know and I'll make a start with first determining your legitimate candidature?

NB: I noticed your next admission - At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
2C) Of course I sin; . . . .
Already your legitimate candidature has been compromised but I'm also a benevolent teacher prepared to give you another opportunity for credibility IF you still want to try your luck again against your own preferred bible?

At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
1B) Yes.
1C) I am not aware of any other viable alternative to human will other than free will.

At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?
At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
2A) Again, I am a Christian not a christian.
None outside Story book bible land have ever in the history of man legitimately deserved that title you have illegitimately also arrogated for yourselves!

At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
2B) I Jesus is a proper name. Stop being disrespectful if you want Christians to honestly answer you.
The biblical jesus is a myth! There is absolutely NO legitimate historical evidence it ever literally existed outside of Story book bible land!

The biblical Story book jesus was a fraud, e.g. Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 unambiguously expose it as a fraud! -

In Deuteronomy 24:16 (KJV Story book) it specifically says this:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Online Source: http://whatjewsbelieve.org...) - What Jews believe Point 1.)

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) RSV Story book catholic edition 1965

cf.

Fathers must not be put to death for what their children24 do, nor children for what their fathers do; each must be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) NET Story book

This was later confirmed by -

Ezekiel 18:20 RSV

"THE SON SHALL NOT SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER. NOR THE FATHER SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE SON; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

Ezekiel 18:20 also "pulls the rug out from under" Christianity's main premise, that all generations of mankind are burdened with sin and death stemming from Adam's act of disobedience. Only Christ's redeeming shed blood can end this never-ending cycle of sin and death. Quite clearly Ezekiel refutes this notion. "The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father." (Online Source: http://www.bibleorigins.net...)

At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
2C) Of course I sin; I am not perfect. Most of the time I go out of my way not to sin, but sometimes I cannot help myself.
But you just claimed you have ' Free-Will? ' (See above your admissions 1B & 1C)

So why do you malignant sinners (supposedly embracing this jesus of yours), Freely choose to remain disobedient and Freely choose to keep Sinning?

You are either stupid & disobedient, or else you don't have a Free-Will at all; but duped yourselves or were duped to believe that you do!
MarquisX
Posts: 925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 12:47:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 12:24:06 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
1A) I am a Christian not a christian.
Your ' saying so ' means nothing of value!
What? Why ask if you're not going to believe them?

Are you prepared to take the tests of a genuine Story book jesus' believer as laid out in your preferred Story book ' already a given promises, attributes & mnanifestations of any such a genuine person? ', legitimately pass them all as I present them Step by Step, and IF you are legitimately successful and don't make the typical BS excuses for your failures, we'll talk again of your claims of genuineness!
Wtf?

Please start a Thread/Debate e.g. tBoonePickens' attempt to prove he is worthy to be a genuine christian according to his own bible? (As I said, IF you ever pass ALL those tests legitimately, we'll speak more about your legitimacy!)
You're........you're testing people to see if they're Christian?

Let me know and I'll make a start with first determining your legitimate candidature?
Hahaha. This guy is f*cking insane.

NB: I noticed your next admission - At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
2C) Of course I sin; . . . .
Already your legitimate candidature has been compromised but I'm also a benevolent teacher prepared to give you another opportunity for credibility IF you still want to try your luck again against your own preferred bible?
HAHAHAHA OMGG THIS IS TOO MUCH.

At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
1B) Yes.
1C) I am not aware of any other viable alternative to human will other than free will.

At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?
At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
2A) Again, I am a Christian not a christian.
None outside Story book bible land have ever in the history of man legitimately deserved that title you have illegitimately also arrogated for yourselves!
HOLY SH*t. Is the Steven Colbert taking a athiest position?

At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
2B) I Jesus is a proper name. Stop being disrespectful if you want Christians to honestly answer you.
The biblical jesus is a myth! There is absolutely NO legitimate historical evidence it ever literally existed outside of Story book bible land!
It's widely accepted that Jesus existed historically.

The biblical Story book jesus was a fraud, e.g. Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 unambiguously expose it as a fraud! -

In Deuteronomy 24:16 (KJV Story book) it specifically says this:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Online Source: http://whatjewsbelieve.org...) - What Jews believe Point 1.)
That doesn't prove anything. This passage was written much before Jesus's time.

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) RSV Story book catholic edition 1965

cf.

Fathers must not be put to death for what their children24 do, nor children for what their fathers do; each must be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) NET Story book

This was later confirmed by -

Ezekiel 18:20 RSV

"THE SON SHALL NOT SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER. NOR THE FATHER SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE SON; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

Ezekiel 18:20 also "pulls the rug out from under" Christianity's main premise, that all generations of mankind are burdened with sin and death stemming from Adam's act of disobedience.

Hmm good point. But that's not Christianity's main premise.

Only Christ's redeeming shed blood can end this never-ending cycle of sin and death. Quite clearly Ezekiel refutes this notion. "The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father." (Online Source: http://www.bibleorigins.net...)


At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
2C) Of course I sin; I am not perfect. Most of the time I go out of my way not to sin, but sometimes I cannot help myself.
But you just claimed you have ' Free-Will? ' (See above your admissions 1B & 1C)
Free will it was allows them to sin.

So why do you malignant sinners (supposedly embracing this jesus of yours), Freely choose to remain disobedient and Freely choose to keep Sinning?

You are either stupid & disobedient, or else you don't have a Free-Will at all; but duped yourselves or were duped to believe that you do!
Hahahahaha and now you're being crazy again.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/15/2012 12:03:51 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

I am christian, I believe in Free Will. Gods character is that of Love, and an all loving god expresses his sovereignty by allowing for free will. Free will is the only logical answer to the POE as well, I do not think the 'predestination' explanation of 'our sin brings glory to god, thats why god makes us do it, it makes for a better novel that he is writing"

2. Do those calling themselves Christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

yes, after being saved it is still possible for you to sin, just like after graduating school is still possible for you to misspell sometimes.

Jesus is needed as our savior because we cannot stop sinning without him, we are that corrupted, we cannot earn our own salvation. to understand this you have to first get the basics of 'grace'

I do take the rare position on 'sanctification' wich is a Methodist belief. though we still may sin after we are saved, being FREE from sin means we are FREE from sin and it is now possible for us to truly stop through Christ. but to do that takes a very strong faith and total reliance on christ in everything. thats no easy thing to just do and its not a discipline that occurs over nite.

the change to the christian life is a drastic one and and on our journey to become more christian-like we are not free from temptation, and so long as we are not free from it we are not immune to failing to rise above it. its possible you could keep sinning until Christ returns and your body is glorified and perfected at which point none shall sin again.

So much you say is so true. To him that overcomes Christ said in Rev 2:7,11,17,26,3:5,12,21. overcomes what? Matt 1:21 HE shall save HIS people (in or from) their sin? Who gets these, glorified, perfected, immortal bodies? GOD is a consuming fire. Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin. HE wants to dwell with us, visit with us soon. What then is the power of the gospel, the power of the Holy Spirit if not to make us ready to see, behold, our GOD? We're called representatives of CHRIST, overcomers, to the world? Like CHRIST= Christians. Is our GOD so weak? NO! NO!
Jude 24 I know, but we are weak if we are not dead to sin. Dead people cannot sin. Or be made to sin. Soooooooooooooo easy to talk about it. But while we are alive to self, the world will mock us and the GOD we say we believe. GOD is on trial here. Are we any different than the world. If not, what are we doing with this Saviour, Jesus. And the world looks on.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:03:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

You chose to start this thread, didn't you?

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

Of course, every day. Now that my sins are forgiven, I have a free pass!

Praise the Lawd!
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:04:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
That is Story book baseless nonesense!

Story book god punishes (rightly or wrongly?) the sinner, not the sins!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:13:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 12:24:06 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

At 2/15/2012 1:04:02 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
1A) I am a Christian not a christian.
Your ' saying so ' means nothing of value!

At 2/16/2012 12:47:49 AM, MarquisX wrote:
What? Why ask if you're not going to believe them?
Answers require legitimate supportive evidence and my answers are always supported with the legitimate evidence!

Their simply ' saying so ' with no legitimate supportive evidence is them purely spouting ' hot air '!

Are you prepared to take the tests of a genuine Story book jesus' believer as laid out in your preferred Story book ' already a given promises, attributes & mnanifestations of any such a genuine person? ', legitimately pass them all as I present them Step by Step, and IF you are legitimately successful and don't make the typical BS excuses for your failures, we'll talk again of your claims of genuineness!

At 2/16/2012 12:47:49 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Wtf?
What don't you claim to understand this time?

Please start a Thread/Debate e.g. tBoonePickens' attempt to prove he is worthy to be a genuine christian according to his own bible? (As I said, IF you ever pass ALL those tests legitimately, we'll speak more about your legitimacy!)

At 2/16/2012 12:47:49 AM, MarquisX wrote:
You're........you're testing people to see if they're Christian?
Their preferred Story book is!

I'm just the one presenting the evidence they claim to believe and must legitimately manifest!

Let me know and I'll make a start with first determining your legitimate candidature?

At 2/16/2012 12:47:49 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Hahaha. This guy is f*cking insane.
How so?

Meanwhile I'll put you down as ' NO I (MarquisX) am not prepared to take such an examination! '

Much better luck next times at something else then!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:20:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:03:49 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

You chose to start this thread, didn't you?

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

Of course, every day. Now that my sins are forgiven, I have a free pass!

Praise the Lawd!
That's an interesting perspective others claiming to be christians would no doubt disagree with!

You are obviously not a genuine jesus' believer either else 1. You probably wouldn't use the derogatory term Lawd! & 2. you wouldn't make such foolish claims of a free pass! (With NO legitimate supportive evidence either?)

BTW: Free-Pass to what, LOL!
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:04:18 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
That is Story book baseless nonesense!

Story book god punishes (rightly or wrongly?) the sinner, not the sins!

Sorry I don't know you that well to get your point. So your point is ? You don't like the GOD of the Story book you don't understand ?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:32:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:04:18 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
That is Story book baseless nonesense!

Story book god punishes (rightly or wrongly?) the sinner, not the sins!

At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
Sorry I don't know you that well to get your point. So your point is ? You don't like the GOD of the Story book you don't understand ?
At least we are already agreed we are discussing a Story book god!
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:36:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:32:27 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:04:18 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
That is Story book baseless nonesense!

Story book god punishes (rightly or wrongly?) the sinner, not the sins!

At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
Sorry I don't know you that well to get your point. So your point is ? You don't like the GOD of the Story book you don't understand ?
At least we are already agreed we are discussing a Story book god!

Go on! I'm just working with you, let's move forward, your point ?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:40:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:36:08 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:32:27 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:04:18 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
That is Story book baseless nonesense!

Story book god punishes (rightly or wrongly?) the sinner, not the sins!

At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
Sorry I don't know you that well to get your point. So your point is ? You don't like the GOD of the Story book you don't understand ?
At least we are already agreed we are discussing a Story book god!

Go on! I'm just working with you, let's move forward, your point ?
My Posts are there to examine, you objected to them without legitimate evidence, so its all still over to you. Meanwhile I remain vindicated!
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:41:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:40:01 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:36:08 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:32:27 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:04:18 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
That is Story book baseless nonesense!

Story book god punishes (rightly or wrongly?) the sinner, not the sins!

At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
Sorry I don't know you that well to get your point. So your point is ? You don't like the GOD of the Story book you don't understand ?
At least we are already agreed we are discussing a Story book god!

Go on! I'm just working with you, let's move forward, your point ?
My Posts are there to examine, you objected to them without legitimate evidence, so its all still over to you. Meanwhile I remain vindicated!

No you don't
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 1:49:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:40:01 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:36:08 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:32:27 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:04:18 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
That is Story book baseless nonesense!

Story book god punishes (rightly or wrongly?) the sinner, not the sins!

At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
Sorry I don't know you that well to get your point. So your point is ? You don't like the GOD of the Story book you don't understand ?
At least we are already agreed we are discussing a Story book god!

Go on! I'm just working with you, let's move forward, your point ?
My Posts are there to examine, you objected to them without legitimate evidence, so its all still over to you. Meanwhile I remain vindicated!

What would be viable legitimate evidence to you? I didn't know you were on trial!
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 2:02:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:49:45 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:40:01 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:36:08 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:32:27 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 2/16/2012 1:04:18 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
That is Story book baseless nonesense!

Story book god punishes (rightly or wrongly?) the sinner, not the sins!

At 2/16/2012 1:26:22 AM, Suqua wrote:
Sorry I don't know you that well to get your point. So your point is ? You don't like the GOD of the Story book you don't understand ?
At least we are already agreed we are discussing a Story book god!

Go on! I'm just working with you, let's move forward, your point ?
My Posts are there to examine, you objected to them without legitimate evidence, so its all still over to you. Meanwhile I remain vindicated!

What would be viable legitimate evidence to you? I didn't know you were on trial!
I see know, I went back to your questions on free-will without explanations on your questions. You don't bring anything to the table, no legitimate counter evidence on your part, just your opinion. That which you ask of others, you haven't done! What gives?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 2:07:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 1:20:56 AM, Composer wrote:
BTW: Free-Pass to what, LOL!

Child rape. I just love me the child rape.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 10:45:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/12/2012 1:44:19 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Do those calling themselves christians, believe in a Free-Will for all? (If so evidence please?)

More or less yes. I dabble in determinism and that can be startling to think about, in that my choices are determined by the variables/values that were given to me genetically, those environmental factors during my life, and those that I am continually given are what is responsible for my decision making. However, those variables and values are what were, and are, given to me so that I own them they are mine, not the other way around. The interpretation of a deterministic approach can vary, but I don't see that it truly conflicts with Christianity, but may offer a solid argument against what we consider free will. However, since I also believe in Individualism, the ownership of me and my experiences, not someone else, argues on the side of free will.

2. Do those calling themselves christians still sin, despite embracing their jesus?

Of course. Silliness to think that we are capable of removing our character defects or removing them from someone else. To the best of our ability we are able to control our behavior. Now a Determinist may argue with that, in that we are the subject of our sum and total, and a Christian would count the teachings of Christ as part of our sum and total so that His values would make us more aware of our defects and the truth of who we are by His example of perfection.

A sailboat can only go so fast. There is a formula that we know that can calculate the maximum speed of a sailboat. There is no sail or wind that can make that sailboat exceed that speed. However, you are able to employ various techniques and different sails to maximize the wind that exists, and sustain the maximum speed the most often. The wind and the boat's maximum speed are not negotiable for the sailor, but the gifts given to the sailor in knowledge and equipment are his to use.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 4:18:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 12:24:06 AM, Composer wrote:
I will discontinue this communication due to your lack of respect.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 6:34:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
To him that overcomes Christ said in Rev 2:7,11,17,26,3:5,12,21. overcomes what? Matt 1:21
HE shall save HIS people (in or from) their sin?
Story book says no! See Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 -

The Christian understanding is that the messiah, Jesus, died for the sins of the people. The messiah is supposed to be a human sacrifice that is the blood sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

But we are taught in this proven self contradicting bible that no one can die for the sins of another. -

In Deuteronomy 24:16 (KJV Story book) it specifically says this:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Online Source: http://whatjewsbelieve.org...) - What Jews believe Point 1.)

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) RSV Story book catholic edition 1965

cf.

Fathers must not be put to death for what their children24 do, nor children for what their fathers do; each must be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) NET Story book (See also: post2966264 (Post#1586, story book contradictions Deut. 24:16 Oops! Ex. 20: 5. LOL!))

This was later confirmed by -

Ezekiel 18:20 RSV

"THE SON SHALL NOT SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER. NOR THE FATHER SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE SON; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

Ezekiel 18:20 also "pulls the rug out from under" Christianity's main premise, that all generations of mankind are burdened with sin and death stemming from Adam's act of disobedience. Only Christ's redeeming shed blood can end this never-ending cycle of sin and death. Quite clearly Ezekiel refutes this notion. "The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father." (Online Source: http://www.bibleorigins.net...)

According to christianities Story book it states their jesus was a liar, cheat and a fraud!

At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
GOD is a consuming fire. Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
Sin isn't punished, the sinner is! Just like the alleged sinners Adam & Eve & the Serpent, their so called sins weren't punished, they were each punished personally!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 6:36:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 4:18:05 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:24:06 AM, Composer wrote:
I will discontinue this communication due to your lack of respect.
Ok bye!
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2012 8:50:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 6:34:28 PM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
To him that overcomes Christ said in Rev 2:7,11,17,26,3:5,12,21. overcomes what? Matt 1:21
HE shall save HIS people (in or from) their sin?
Story book says no! See Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 -

The Christian understanding is that the messiah, Jesus, died for the sins of the people. The messiah is supposed to be a human sacrifice that is the blood sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

But we are taught in this proven self contradicting bible that no one can die for the sins of another. -

In Deuteronomy 24:16 (KJV Story book) it specifically says this:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Online Source: http://whatjewsbelieve.org...) - What Jews believe Point 1.)

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) RSV Story book catholic edition 1965

cf.

Fathers must not be put to death for what their children24 do, nor children for what their fathers do; each must be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) NET Story book (See also: post2966264 (Post#1586, story book contradictions Deut. 24:16 Oops! Ex. 20: 5. LOL!))

This was later confirmed by -

Ezekiel 18:20 RSV

"THE SON SHALL NOT SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER. NOR THE FATHER SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE SON; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

Ezekiel 18:20 also "pulls the rug out from under" Christianity's main premise, that all generations of mankind are burdened with sin and death stemming from Adam's act of disobedience. Only Christ's redeeming shed blood can end this never-ending cycle of sin and death. Quite clearly Ezekiel refutes this notion. "The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father." (Online Source: http://www.bibleorigins.net...)

According to christianities Story book it states their jesus was a liar, cheat and a fraud!

At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
GOD is a consuming fire. Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
Sin isn't punished, the sinner is! Just like the alleged sinners Adam & Eve & the Serpent, their so called sins weren't punished, they were each punished personally!

You're getting closer! I'll talk with you latter tonight. Just took a peak before I run off to do a few things.
Suqua
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/17/2012 12:05:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 6:34:28 PM, Composer wrote:
At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
To him that overcomes Christ said in Rev 2:7,11,17,26,3:5,12,21. overcomes what? Matt 1:21
HE shall save HIS people (in or from) their sin?
Story book says no! See Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 -

The Christian understanding is that the messiah, Jesus, died for the sins of the people. The messiah is supposed to be a human sacrifice that is the blood sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

But we are taught in this proven self contradicting bible that no one can die for the sins of another. -

In Deuteronomy 24:16 (KJV Story book) it specifically says this:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Online Source: http://whatjewsbelieve.org...) - What Jews believe Point 1.)

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) RSV Story book catholic edition 1965

cf.

Fathers must not be put to death for what their children24 do, nor children for what their fathers do; each must be put to death for his own sin. (Deut. 24:16) NET Story book (See also: post2966264 (Post#1586, story book contradictions Deut. 24:16 Oops! Ex. 20: 5. LOL!))

This was later confirmed by -

Ezekiel 18:20 RSV

"THE SON SHALL NOT SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER. NOR THE FATHER SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE SON; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

Ezekiel 18:20 also "pulls the rug out from under" Christianity's main premise, that all generations of mankind are burdened with sin and death stemming from Adam's act of disobedience. Only Christ's redeeming shed blood can end this never-ending cycle of sin and death. Quite clearly Ezekiel refutes this notion. "The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father." (Online Source: http://www.bibleorigins.net...)

According to christianities Story book it states their jesus was a liar, cheat and a fraud!

At 2/16/2012 12:55:11 AM, Suqua wrote:
GOD is a consuming fire. Since HE is only concern is with the sin problem, hate the sin love the sinner, HE is a consuming fire to sin.
Sin isn't punished, the sinner is! Just like the alleged sinners Adam & Eve & the Serpent, their so called sins weren't punished, they were each punished personally!

I see your problem! You don't know the rest of the story. Let me try to fill you in if I may. Moses and Ezek. are stating the fact that the death of a man (sinner) cannot atone for the sin's of another man(mankind) sinner. For he (mankind) has broken a holy law, of which he is not (holy), only one equal to the law can atone for it. And thats where JESUS comes in. If the sinner(mankind) has to bare his own sin he shall die.
As you very well know Adam & Eve did not get what they deserved (death) that day, JESUS steps in and announces that HE will take their place, and if they choose HIM they shall not stay dead, they got another chance. HE who has power over the grave will raise them up at the last day. And Adam lived 930 years and he died. Gen.5:5, Gen.3, Heb.3:23, 5:6-21, Heb.6-16