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BAHAHA! THIS IS HILARIOUS! I'm crying!!!

Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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2/15/2012 8:56:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've read this before, but I just read it again and have to share. It's the funniest verse in the bible.

Ezekiel 23:19-20
19 Yet she turned to even greater prostitution, remembering her youth when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey's and emissions (orgasms) like those of a horse.
kfc
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/15/2012 9:02:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lucky woman.

But I find the following verses much more hilarious.

Matthew
27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Awesome. NO one in jerusalem noticed zombies, dead people walking into town, despite appearing to many. Youd think this would be a noteworthy footnote in history, the worlds first and only zombie attack from beyond the grave.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/15/2012 9:03:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
lmao don't be offended,..but, how can people take this book seriously??
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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2/15/2012 9:09:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hilarious party game: open the bible, state "I believe in God because...," read a random verse aloud, enjoy.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
Physik
Posts: 686
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2/16/2012 2:19:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/15/2012 9:03:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
lmao don't be offended,..but, how can people take this book seriously??

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 6:25:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Doesn't this meal sound delicious?

"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." (Ezekiel 4:12-13)
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/16/2012 9:09:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 6:25:58 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Doesn't this meal sound delicious?

"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." (Ezekiel 4:12-13)

Well, it sounds more delicious than the mana they were eating that supposedly came from heaven.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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2/16/2012 9:21:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/15/2012 9:02:26 PM, tkubok wrote:
Lucky woman.

But I find the following verses much more hilarious.

Matthew
27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Awesome. NO one in jerusalem noticed zombies, dead people walking into town, despite appearing to many. Youd think this would be a noteworthy footnote in history, the worlds first and only zombie attack from beyond the grave.

I think from an inductive standpoint we see that thousands of people in Jerusalem noticed the 'zombies'.
Literally 10's of thousands were converted to Christianity as they experienced the truth of these accounts within the first years after Jesus' Resurrection. or are you claiming these things did not happen and the Jews were just a bunch of morons?

The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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2/16/2012 9:23:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/15/2012 9:09:37 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Hilarious party game: open the bible, state "I believe in God because...," read a random verse aloud, enjoy.

Wow and to think. I never knew it failed to satisfy as a party favor. I am converting right away!
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/16/2012 9:29:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 9:21:12 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 2/15/2012 9:02:26 PM, tkubok wrote:
Lucky woman.

But I find the following verses much more hilarious.

Matthew
27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Awesome. NO one in jerusalem noticed zombies, dead people walking into town, despite appearing to many. Youd think this would be a noteworthy footnote in history, the worlds first and only zombie attack from beyond the grave.

I think from an inductive standpoint we see that thousands of people in Jerusalem noticed the 'zombies'.
Literally 10's of thousands were converted to Christianity as they experienced the truth of these accounts within the first years after Jesus' Resurrection. or are you claiming these things did not happen and the Jews were just a bunch of morons?

No, i believe the Jews who converted were simply being convinced that Christianity was the true religion, much like how Muslims and Jews are being converted to Christianity today, and vice versa.

Although you have no source for your claim of "Tens of thousands" being converted, and its doubtful that so many did, the problem here is why, despite your claim of supposed tens of thousands of people witnessing zombies rising from the graves and converting to christianity because of it(Which would imply that many, many more witnessed this event, since it is doubtful that EVERYONE who saw this converted), that barely any, if not a single person decided to write this as a footnote in history. The only account of this is in ONE gospel, written DECADES after the original event. Thats all. Seems improbable to the point of absurd.

The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

What contrary evidence existed to these jews that would prevent them from believing?

Furthermore, its not like these Jews were not already open to faith, to the belief without evidence, as they were part of the jewish faith!
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 9:53:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 9:21:12 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 2/15/2012 9:02:26 PM, tkubok wrote:
Lucky woman.

But I find the following verses much more hilarious.

Matthew
27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Awesome. NO one in jerusalem noticed zombies, dead people walking into town, despite appearing to many. Youd think this would be a noteworthy footnote in history, the worlds first and only zombie attack from beyond the grave.

I think from an inductive standpoint we see that thousands of people in Jerusalem noticed the 'zombies'.
: Literally 10's of thousands were converted to Christianity as they experienced the truth of these accounts within the first years after Jesus' Resurrection. or are you claiming these things did not happen and the Jews were just a bunch of morons?

Proof please?

The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

Huh?
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 9:56:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 9:53:10 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:21:12 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 2/15/2012 9:02:26 PM, tkubok wrote:
Lucky woman.

But I find the following verses much more hilarious.

Matthew
27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Awesome. NO one in jerusalem noticed zombies, dead people walking into town, despite appearing to many. Youd think this would be a noteworthy footnote in history, the worlds first and only zombie attack from beyond the grave.

I think from an inductive standpoint we see that thousands of people in Jerusalem noticed the 'zombies'.
: Literally 10's of thousands were converted to Christianity as they experienced the truth of these accounts within the first years after Jesus' Resurrection. or are you claiming these things did not happen and the Jews were just a bunch of morons?

Anybody will claim that something is true when they are being burned alive.
Proof please?

The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

Huh?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/16/2012 9:58:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 9:53:10 AM, Microsuck wrote:
The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

Huh?

Hes talking about how the Jews were being converted to christianity, with lack of evidence and contrary evidence. Which is why i asked, what contrary evidence was there that wouldve been availeable to the jews?

Also, the fact that missionarys, christian and otherwise, go around the world, claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy and a bunch of natives go "Really" and believe despite obvious lack of evidence, pretty much decimate this argument.
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:05:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 9:58:16 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:53:10 AM, Microsuck wrote:
The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

Huh?

Hes talking about how the Jews were being converted to christianity, with lack of evidence and contrary evidence. Which is why i asked, what contrary evidence was there that wouldve been availeable to the jews?

Anybody will agree to anything when he is being burned at the stake.
Also, the fact that missionarys, christian and otherwise, go around the world, claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy and a bunch of natives go "Really" and believe despite obvious lack of evidence, pretty much decimate this argument.
This is meaningless. Many conversions are forced and other conversions are induced through aid.

Example: http://www.worthynews.com...
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/16/2012 10:07:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:05:07 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:58:16 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:53:10 AM, Microsuck wrote:
The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

Huh?

Hes talking about how the Jews were being converted to christianity, with lack of evidence and contrary evidence. Which is why i asked, what contrary evidence was there that wouldve been availeable to the jews?

Anybody will agree to anything when he is being burned at the stake.
Also, the fact that missionarys, christian and otherwise, go around the world, claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy and a bunch of natives go "Really" and believe despite obvious lack of evidence, pretty much decimate this argument.
This is meaningless. Many conversions are forced and other conversions are induced through aid.

Example: http://www.worthynews.com...

This is complete bull, until 300s AD Christians were persecuted, ostricised more than most other groups. The first converts had to be true converts because there was incentive NOT to be Christian until the Roman Emperor converted in the 300s.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 10:07:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.

Mormonism is also an example and bahai.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:08:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:07:15 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:05:07 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:58:16 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:53:10 AM, Microsuck wrote:
The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

Huh?

Hes talking about how the Jews were being converted to christianity, with lack of evidence and contrary evidence. Which is why i asked, what contrary evidence was there that wouldve been availeable to the jews?

Anybody will agree to anything when he is being burned at the stake.
Also, the fact that missionarys, christian and otherwise, go around the world, claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy and a bunch of natives go "Really" and believe despite obvious lack of evidence, pretty much decimate this argument.
This is meaningless. Many conversions are forced and other conversions are induced through aid.

Example: http://www.worthynews.com...

This is complete bull, until 300s AD Christians were persecuted, ostricised more than most other groups. The first converts had to be true converts because there was incentive NOT to be Christian until the Roman Emperor converted in the 300s.

His claim was about modern conversions, and not about historical or ancient conversions.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 10:08:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

Also, you make an error here: MANY faiths have resurrection stories that people believed. Richard Carrier's essay "Was Christianity Too improbable to be false" is a good place to start: http://www.infidels.org...
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:09:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:07:38 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who do not convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.

Mormonism is also an example and bahai.

This. The fact that people have to threaten to withdraw aid in order to force conversions indicates that their religion is not really strong enough to attract others and also implies that they are hoping to convert for their own selfish ends. They really do not care about promoting the welfare of others.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 10:11:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:09:59 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:07:38 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who do not convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.

Mormonism is also an example and bahai.

This. The fact that people have to threaten to withdraw aid in order to force conversions indicates that their religion is not really strong enough to attract others and also implies that they are hoping to convert for their own selfish ends. They really do not care about promoting the welfare of others.

Yup. Also, Gileanados may want to read ESPECIALLY this: http://www.infidels.org...
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:14:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:11:46 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:09:59 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:07:38 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who do not convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.

Mormonism is also an example and bahai.

This. The fact that people have to threaten to withdraw aid in order to force conversions indicates that their religion is not really strong enough to attract others and also implies that they are hoping to convert for their own selfish ends. They really do not care about promoting the welfare of others.

Yup. Also, Gileanados may want to read ESPECIALLY this: http://www.infidels.org...

That was an interesting read. This is a common problem with the Christian faith; they literally absorbed every pagan tradition so that people would passively accept their religion alongside their own. Eventually, the people just gave up the tradition. Christmas, for example, usurped the tradition of Saturnalia.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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2/16/2012 10:15:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 9:29:48 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:21:12 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 2/15/2012 9:02:26 PM, tkubok wrote:
Lucky woman.

But I find the following verses much more hilarious.

Matthew
27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Awesome. NO one in jerusalem noticed zombies, dead people walking into town, despite appearing to many. Youd think this would be a noteworthy footnote in history, the worlds first and only zombie attack from beyond the grave.

I think from an inductive standpoint we see that thousands of people in Jerusalem noticed the 'zombies'.
Literally 10's of thousands were converted to Christianity as they experienced the truth of these accounts within the first years after Jesus' Resurrection. or are you claiming these things did not happen and the Jews were just a bunch of morons?

No, i believe the Jews who converted were simply being convinced that Christianity was the true religion, much like how Muslims and Jews are being converted to Christianity today, and vice versa.

Although you have no source for your claim of "Tens of thousands" being converted, and its doubtful that so many did, the problem here is why, despite your claim of supposed tens of thousands of people witnessing zombies rising from the graves and converting to christianity because of it(Which would imply that many, many more witnessed this event, since it is doubtful that EVERYONE who saw this converted), that barely any, if not a single person decided to write this as a footnote in history. The only account of this is in ONE gospel, written DECADES after the original event. Thats all. Seems improbable to the point of absurd.

You seem to make three complaints here:
1: There were not a lot of Jews that converted
2: The people converting today are merely being convinced and experience nothing
3: No secular person recorded these events except a few mentions.

1: The Bible claims three thousand in a single day just by pointing to the events surrounding the resurrection.
- Given we do have a historical document that explains the incredibly fast rise of Christianity.
- Within just 15 years there were letters written to Jewish churches in every mainstream city.
- Given that the Helenization was near impossible in Israel 100 years before we can understand the Jews were very difficult to change. Have you been to Monsey, NY btw?
- Very early on the spread of the Messiah was so profound and so alarming to the Jews actively killed and murdered the Christians.
All of this is credited by the Fathers and Apostles to 'powers' from God and the shared experiences of the people.

2: Your complaint that Jews and Muslims are merely being convinced intellectually. Though I do not doubt that and I myself was intellectually satisfied, my experiences caused my conversion.
- There are literally millions of claims of 'seeing' Jesus in the Muslim world. India's main conversion force is the removal of old rural powers with exorcisms. China's house churches claim divine interaction and communication. It goes on and on.
- If You complain that personal experiences should not count, then why should your lack of experience be so important in guiding your disbelief?
- The rise of the muslim religion was due to personal experience. Everyone that was not muslim 'experienced' physical threats of beheading. So they went underground or converted. Not at all hard to imagine massive conversions on pain of death.
- We also do not deny the sustaining power of fallen angels within the alternate religions.

3: The problem with this line of reasoning is once the author experienced these supernaturally real events, they became Christian. They no longer were secular. All of these authors are credible because they were not 'first' Christians. So the writings from previously secular sources are abundant.
- Additionally, there was no expectation of a lack of bias in the ancient world. No one back then was as 'stupid' to believe someone who claimed to be unbiased and objective. No such person exists. We really are a dumb culture.
- Even if such a document did exist you have an unreasonable expectation it should have survived today. The only reason the Bible texts survived for us today is the literally hundreds of thousands of copies that were made and we only have 5,300. The next most prolific document has only 300 surviving 'pieces' from the ancient world.

We can see the reality of the situation is much more complex than your complaints allow for.


The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

What contrary evidence existed to these jews that would prevent them from believing?

No zombies walking around the streets. If one guy came running around the streets claiming to have seen zombies you could ignore him.
When thousands are in the streets welcoming home loved ones from the tomb. This has a bit more relevance and you are unable to outright dismiss.


Furthermore, its not like these Jews were not already open to faith, to the belief without evidence, as they were part of the jewish faith!

That is true only in one sense. They already believed in something. Mere intellectually 'convincing' will rarely convert normal people (look at you), much less Jews. Jews are an obstinate people and the Jewish religion requires such devotion its beyond anything of any other religion.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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2/16/2012 10:25:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:11:46 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:09:59 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:07:38 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who do not convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.

Mormonism is also an example and bahai.

This. The fact that people have to threaten to withdraw aid in order to force conversions indicates that their religion is not really strong enough to attract others and also implies that they are hoping to convert for their own selfish ends. They really do not care about promoting the welfare of others.

Yup. Also, Gileanados may want to read ESPECIALLY this: http://www.infidels.org...

Emporer Julian's (300's AD) very complaint against Christianity was the fact it was a selfless religion and it aided pagan's. He could not get his own pagan's to care about their own orphans and widows.

This accusation has no merit. I have been within the Church, the Salvation Army specifically. We offer the truth but no expectation is mandated. Such accusations against the moral superiority fall short in factual data.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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2/16/2012 10:30:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:14:51 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:11:46 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:09:59 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:07:38 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who do not convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.

Mormonism is also an example and bahai.

This. The fact that people have to threaten to withdraw aid in order to force conversions indicates that their religion is not really strong enough to attract others and also implies that they are hoping to convert for their own selfish ends. They really do not care about promoting the welfare of others.

Yup. Also, Gileanados may want to read ESPECIALLY this: http://www.infidels.org...

That was an interesting read. This is a common problem with the Christian faith; they literally absorbed every pagan tradition so that people would passively accept their religion alongside their own. Eventually, the people just gave up the tradition. Christmas, for example, usurped the tradition of Saturnalia.

Again, from an intellectual point, none of these pagan 'absorption' assertions have merit.
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:31:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:30:01 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:14:51 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:11:46 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:09:59 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:07:38 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who do not convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.

Mormonism is also an example and bahai.

This. The fact that people have to threaten to withdraw aid in order to force conversions indicates that their religion is not really strong enough to attract others and also implies that they are hoping to convert for their own selfish ends. They really do not care about promoting the welfare of others.

Yup. Also, Gileanados may want to read ESPECIALLY this: http://www.infidels.org...

That was an interesting read. This is a common problem with the Christian faith; they literally absorbed every pagan tradition so that people would passively accept their religion alongside their own. Eventually, the people just gave up the tradition. Christmas, for example, usurped the tradition of Saturnalia.

Again, from an intellectual point, none of these pagan 'absorption' assertions have merit.

Evidence? Christ was born in October. Why is Christmas in December?
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 10:32:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:25:21 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:11:46 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:09:59 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:07:38 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:06:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
Also, before you claim, "Well, the Christians have a right to refuse aid to those who do not convert," note that there are plenty of religions who give aid to individuals who are not of the same faith. Sikhism is a prime example.

Mormonism is also an example and bahai.

This. The fact that people have to threaten to withdraw aid in order to force conversions indicates that their religion is not really strong enough to attract others and also implies that they are hoping to convert for their own selfish ends. They really do not care about promoting the welfare of others.

Yup. Also, Gileanados may want to read ESPECIALLY this: http://www.infidels.org...

Emporer Julian's (300's AD) very complaint against Christianity was the fact it was a selfless religion and it aided pagan's. He could not get his own pagan's to care about their own orphans and widows.

This accusation has no merit. I have been within the Church, the Salvation Army specifically. We offer the truth but no expectation is mandated. Such accusations against the moral superiority fall short in factual data.

False! The early Christians were more divided then than they are now! (there are 330000 different sects today!)

http://www.infidels.org...
http://www.infidels.org...
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/16/2012 10:38:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:05:07 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:58:16 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 9:53:10 AM, Microsuck wrote:
The Jews were so stupid, that these people were running around claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy with a bunch more people and the Jews go 'really' and believe despite obvious lack of evidence and contrary evidence?

Huh?

Hes talking about how the Jews were being converted to christianity, with lack of evidence and contrary evidence. Which is why i asked, what contrary evidence was there that wouldve been availeable to the jews?

Anybody will agree to anything when he is being burned at the stake.

He was talking about early christians 1 year after Jesus died.

Also, the fact that missionarys, christian and otherwise, go around the world, claiming Jesus popped up like a daisy and a bunch of natives go "Really" and believe despite obvious lack of evidence, pretty much decimate this argument.
This is meaningless. Many conversions are forced and other conversions are induced through aid.

Example: http://www.worthynews.com...

Well, not meaningless, since i was arguing the same thing you were.
baggins
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2/16/2012 10:43:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:15:24 AM, Gileandos wrote:
- The rise of the muslim religion was due to personal experience. Everyone that was not muslim 'experienced' physical threats of beheading. So they went underground or converted. Not at all hard to imagine massive conversions on pain of death.

Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him) must have been an amazing fencer!
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Microsuck
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2/16/2012 10:45:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:43:27 AM, baggins wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:15:24 AM, Gileandos wrote:
- The rise of the muslim religion was due to personal experience. Everyone that was not muslim 'experienced' physical threats of beheading. So they went underground or converted. Not at all hard to imagine massive conversions on pain of death.

Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him) must have been an amazing fencer!

That is correct!

"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

"He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

"Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

"I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."

"O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

"Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture."

"Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment."

"Fight in Allah's Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all."

"Believers, shall I lead you to a bargain or trade that will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive and fight in Allah's Cause with your property and your lives: That will be best for you!" Qur'an 61:12 "He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Eden: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement. And another (favor) which you love: help from Allah for a speedy victory over your enemies."

"He who leaves his home in Allah's Cause finds abundant resources and many a refuge. Should he die as a refugee for Allah and His Messenger His reward becomes due and sure with Allah. When you travel through the earth there is no blame on you if you curtail your worship for fear unbelievers may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are your enemy."

"And do not relent in pursuing the enemy."

http://prophetofdoom.net...

Muhammad seems like a nice person!
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler