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Why doesnt God reveal himself to everybody?

tkubok
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2/16/2012 8:45:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I dont get it. I have never had a christian or any theist give me a sufficiently reasonable answer other than "I dont know thats just the way it is."

I mean, seriously. We already have examples of God revealing himself in ways that are undeniable to those who he revealed himself to, yet it just does not happen on a global scale, or in modern times.

People used to tell me that the Devils greatest act is convincing people he doesnt exist. Funny enough, this seems to be the case with God as well. Most miracles, most of the personal experience stories that I heard are laughable, no more convincing than having a headache, taking an aspirin and calling it a miracle when the headache dissapears.

So, any Theists out there willing to explain this with a reasonable, decent answer? Why doesnt God reveal himself to everybody in a method that is instantly understood by all?
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/16/2012 8:45:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Who says he doesn't, but not in the way you want?
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 8:54:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I outlined that in my argument "divine hiddeness" http://www.debate.org...
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
tkubok
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2/16/2012 8:55:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 8:45:47 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Who says he doesn't, but not in the way you want?

I am talking about a method which is undeniable and understood by all, that God exists.

Okay, maybe not fully undeniable, but largely undeniable. A method that convinces atleast 99% of the population, with maybe the last 1% consisting of mentally debilitated and/or handicapped people.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/16/2012 8:58:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 8:55:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 8:45:47 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Who says he doesn't, but not in the way you want?

I am talking about a method which is undeniable and understood by all, that God exists.

Okay, maybe not fully undeniable, but largely undeniable. A method that convinces atleast 99% of the population, with maybe the last 1% consisting of mentally debilitated and/or handicapped people.

Well, once again, if that were to happen, then would you believe it? I mean, I can see a ton of people just saying it was a hoax, no matter what it was. What would you need?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
tkubok
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2/16/2012 9:06:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 8:54:57 AM, Microsuck wrote:
I outlined that in my argument "divine hiddeness" http://www.debate.org...

Zaradi is terrible at debating. Or maybe he simply cannot read. :(
tkubok
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2/16/2012 9:08:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 8:58:58 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/16/2012 8:55:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 8:45:47 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Who says he doesn't, but not in the way you want?

I am talking about a method which is undeniable and understood by all, that God exists.

Okay, maybe not fully undeniable, but largely undeniable. A method that convinces atleast 99% of the population, with maybe the last 1% consisting of mentally debilitated and/or handicapped people.

Well, once again, if that were to happen, then would you believe it? I mean, I can see a ton of people just saying it was a hoax, no matter what it was. What would you need?

I see you do not understand what the words "Undeniable" or "Understood by all" means.

Yes, if it was undeniable, something that is akin to flipping a light switch, a lightning bolt as Paul says, then yes, i would believe. Other than that, other methods that would convince me that God exists is if someone could produce actual evidence that God exists, or if God comes down to my living room and talks to me, answers my questions, etc.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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2/16/2012 9:37:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 8:45:07 AM, tkubok wrote:
I dont get it. I have never had a christian or any theist give me a sufficiently reasonable answer other than "I dont know thats just the way it is."

I mean, seriously. We already have examples of God revealing himself in ways that are undeniable to those who he revealed himself to, yet it just does not happen on a global scale, or in modern times.

People used to tell me that the Devils greatest act is convincing people he doesnt exist. Funny enough, this seems to be the case with God as well. Most miracles, most of the personal experience stories that I heard are laughable, no more convincing than having a headache, taking an aspirin and calling it a miracle when the headache dissapears.

So, any Theists out there willing to explain this with a reasonable, decent answer? Why doesnt God reveal himself to everybody in a method that is instantly understood by all?

I believe that I have pointed out many times, when this questioned has been asked on this forum, that the Satanic Conflict is the reason. Many outright ignore the explanatory power of the Christian narrative. Christianity has all of the answers as to 'why'.

There is a long story line filled with explanatory power against this line of 'complaint'.

Very Brief outline:
God was involved and present with Adam and Eve.
Satan caused the fall.
Satan is now ruler of earth and in charge.
God set the watchers over His children. They fell as well.
Nephilim created.
God flooded the earth once humanity became a rarity and was only one family.
That left Noah.
King of Salem was God's representation on earth as God is restricted due to the Satanic Conflict.
Israel created. God directly interacts with his children.
Michael assigned as the watcher to protect Israel.
Jesus comes as a man so God can interact fully with men, lay his hand on both as the book of Job teaches.
Enter today.
FUTURE, Michael will no longer restrain Satan, Satan will come with power and deceive everyone. "He manifests as God".
Satan is then thrown in prison after Armageddon.
God comes and rules on earth for 1,000 years.
Satan is released. Satan lies. All humans rebel against God... again.
Final judgement.
tkubok
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2/16/2012 9:48:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 9:37:48 AM, Gileandos wrote:
I believe that I have pointed out many times, when this questioned has been asked on this forum, that the Satanic Conflict is the reason. Many outright ignore the explanatory power of the Christian narrative. Christianity has all of the answers as to 'why'.

And what part of Satan prevents God from revealing himself to everyone?

There is a long story line filled with explanatory power against this line of 'complaint'.

Very Brief outline:
God was involved and present with Adam and Eve.
Satan caused the fall.
Satan is now ruler of earth and in charge.
God set the watchers over His children. They fell as well.
Nephilim created.
God flooded the earth once humanity became a rarity and was only one family.
That left Noah.
King of Salem was God's representation on earth as God is restricted due to the Satanic Conflict.
Israel created. God directly interacts with his children.
Michael assigned as the watcher to protect Israel.
Jesus comes as a man so God can interact fully with men, lay his hand on both as the book of Job teaches.
Enter today.
FUTURE, Michael will no longer restrain Satan, Satan will come with power and deceive everyone. "He manifests as God".
Satan is then thrown in prison after Armageddon.
God comes and rules on earth for 1,000 years.
Satan is released. Satan lies. All humans rebel against God... again.
Final judgement.

None of that explains what exactly prevents God from revealing himself to everyone.

Burning bush, bright light blinding people for 3 days, God incarnate walking around healing people and resurrecting his dead body.... These were all instances of God revealing himself to people, and after Satan and Adam and Eve. Yet youre telling me he can do it to others but not to us right now. What is the reasoning behind this?
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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2/16/2012 10:10:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 8:45:07 AM, tkubok wrote:
I dont get it. I have never had a christian or any theist give me a sufficiently reasonable answer other than "I dont know thats just the way it is."

I mean, seriously. We already have examples of God revealing himself in ways that are undeniable to those who he revealed himself to, yet it just does not happen on a global scale, or in modern times.

People used to tell me that the Devils greatest act is convincing people he doesnt exist. Funny enough, this seems to be the case with God as well. Most miracles, most of the personal experience stories that I heard are laughable, no more convincing than having a headache, taking an aspirin and calling it a miracle when the headache dissapears.

So, any Theists out there willing to explain this with a reasonable, decent answer? Why doesnt God reveal himself to everybody in a method that is instantly understood by all?

The Bible says He does; we just suppress what is made evident to us with our unrighteousness. Calvinists call that General Revelation. Human depravity is the reason we suppress this knowledge. The Holy Spirit must regenerate a person before their nature's motive are reformed and in turn their decisions reflect the new motives because of a new nature which inevitably leads to saving faith. (the Calvinist perspective)
yoda878
Posts: 902
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2/16/2012 10:10:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 8:45:07 AM, tkubok wrote:
I don't get it. I have never had a christian or any theist give me a sufficiently reasonable answer other than "I dont know thats just the way it is."

I mean, seriously. We already have examples of God revealing himself in ways that are undeniable to those who he revealed himself to, yet it just does not happen on a global scale, or in modern times.

People used to tell me that the Devils greatest act is convincing people he doesnt exist. Funny enough, this seems to be the case with God as well. Most miracles, most of the personal experience stories that I heard are laughable, no more convincing than having a headache, taking an aspirin and calling it a miracle when the headache dissapears.

So, any Theists out there willing to explain this with a reasonable, decent answer? Why doesnt God reveal himself to everybody in a method that is instantly understood by all?

well look at the story of Cain, God and Cain talked many times but Cain still killed his brother. Really do you think it would make much difference?

And well I believe that if people go in prayer they will know, with the willingness to be humbled. Its not going to be seeing him though, In the bible people that saw God did not say show yourself to me so I can believe. No, their was a reason, mostly to teach others for good.
Me
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 10:11:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 9:06:02 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 8:54:57 AM, Microsuck wrote:
I outlined that in my argument "divine hiddeness" http://www.debate.org...

Zaradi is terrible at debating. Or maybe he simply cannot read. :(

He is a noob. I have to give him credit as he is not a troll as my last partner was.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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2/16/2012 10:16:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Argument from popularity


Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Argumentum ad populum.


This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

Argument from tradition.


If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Why haven't the Hindu gods died out? They are just like the pagan Greek Gods yet they are much older than Judaism or Christianity.

Facepalm.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/16/2012 10:17:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:16:39 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Argument from popularity



Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Argumentum ad populum.



This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

Argument from tradition.


If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Why haven't the Hindu gods died out? They are just like the pagan Greek Gods yet they are much older than Judaism or Christianity.

Facepalm.

Not facepalm, Hinduism has survived because the state keeps it alive because it fuels the Caste system. No one actually truly believes in Hinduism, its a vessel for the Caste system.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/16/2012 10:17:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:10:05 AM, joneszj wrote:
The Bible says He does; we just suppress what is made evident to us with our unrighteousness. Calvinists call that General Revelation. Human depravity is the reason we suppress this knowledge. The Holy Spirit must regenerate a person before their nature's motive are reformed and in turn their decisions reflect the new motives because of a new nature which inevitably leads to saving faith. (the Calvinist perspective)

Really? So God has blinded us physically for 3 days, but we just suppressed it and ignored our blindness?

Im not talking about being saved, about accepting Jesus christ as God and savior. Im talking about the knowledge that God exists. Clearly, calvinists agrees that Muslims also believe or know that God exists but are not saved and do not go to heaven, correct?
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:19:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Most people do not even care. They simply identify themselves as belonging with a group because they are forced to by society. However, many of them do not even bother practicing correctly because they know that the ideas are false. In addition, many conversions were caused by violence.
Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

Ad populum logical fallacy. Most people once believed in dragons and that the Earth was flat and was the center of the universe. That does not mean that those claims were true.
I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

What about Hinduism? It has survived more MUCH longer. Is it false or is it true? This is an appeal to age.
If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Actually, there are a few thousand believers left.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/16/2012 10:19:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:17:58 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:10:05 AM, joneszj wrote:
The Bible says He does; we just suppress what is made evident to us with our unrighteousness. Calvinists call that General Revelation. Human depravity is the reason we suppress this knowledge. The Holy Spirit must regenerate a person before their nature's motive are reformed and in turn their decisions reflect the new motives because of a new nature which inevitably leads to saving faith. (the Calvinist perspective)

Really? So God has blinded us physically for 3 days, but we just suppressed it and ignored our blindness?

Im not talking about being saved, about accepting Jesus christ as God and savior. Im talking about the knowledge that God exists. Clearly, calvinists agrees that Muslims also believe or know that God exists but are not saved and do not go to heaven, correct?

That's correct. Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the same God.
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:20:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:17:53 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:16:39 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Argument from popularity



Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Argumentum ad populum.



This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

Argument from tradition.


If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Why haven't the Hindu gods died out? They are just like the pagan Greek Gods yet they are much older than Judaism or Christianity.

Facepalm.

Not facepalm, Hinduism has survived because the state keeps it alive because it fuels the Caste system. No one actually truly believes in Hinduism, its a vessel for the Caste system.

LOL Can I have evidence that the state keeps Hinduism alive? The caste system has been abolished by the Indian government. I have only been on this site for a few days, and I can see that you are a liar.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/16/2012 10:21:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:20:18 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:17:53 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:16:39 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Argument from popularity



Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Argumentum ad populum.



This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

Argument from tradition.


If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Why haven't the Hindu gods died out? They are just like the pagan Greek Gods yet they are much older than Judaism or Christianity.

Facepalm.

Not facepalm, Hinduism has survived because the state keeps it alive because it fuels the Caste system. No one actually truly believes in Hinduism, its a vessel for the Caste system.

LOL Can I have evidence that the state keeps Hinduism alive? The caste system has been abolished by the Indian government. I have only been on this site for a few days, and I can see that you are a liar.

I am not a liar. The official system was abolished yes but Hinduism keeps it alive

http://philosophy.lander.edu...
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:22:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:21:43 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:20:18 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:17:53 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:16:39 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Argument from popularity



Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Argumentum ad populum.



This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

Argument from tradition.


If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Why haven't the Hindu gods died out? They are just like the pagan Greek Gods yet they are much older than Judaism or Christianity.

Facepalm.

Not facepalm, Hinduism has survived because the state keeps it alive because it fuels the Caste system. No one actually truly believes in Hinduism, its a vessel for the Caste system.

LOL Can I have evidence that the state keeps Hinduism alive? The caste system has been abolished by the Indian government. I have only been on this site for a few days, and I can see that you are a liar.

I am not a liar. The official system was abolished yes but Hinduism keeps it alive

http://philosophy.lander.edu...

"The view of the caste system as "static and unchanging" is disappearing. The Indian government has been working towards creating equality between castes with affirmative action, such as guaranteed seats in educational institutions, government jobs (and promotions) and even in the parliament for those of the Scheduled Untouchable castes and tribes. Scholarships have also been available to all of these groups, so that they can go on to further education more easily and this has raised their social status. Sociologists describe how the perception of the caste system as a static and textual stratification has given way to the perception of the caste system as a more processional, empirical and contextual stratification."
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:23:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:21:43 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:20:18 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:17:53 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:16:39 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Argument from popularity



Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Argumentum ad populum.



This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

Argument from tradition.


If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Why haven't the Hindu gods died out? They are just like the pagan Greek Gods yet they are much older than Judaism or Christianity.

Facepalm.

Not facepalm, Hinduism has survived because the state keeps it alive because it fuels the Caste system. No one actually truly believes in Hinduism, its a vessel for the Caste system.

LOL Can I have evidence that the state keeps Hinduism alive? The caste system has been abolished by the Indian government. I have only been on this site for a few days, and I can see that you are a liar.

I am not a liar. The official system was abolished yes but Hinduism keeps it alive

http://philosophy.lander.edu...

LOL That says that the caste system is part of Hinduism and not that the government is keeping it alive in order to enforce the caste system. Nice job lying about your evidence.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/16/2012 10:23:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:22:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:21:43 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:20:18 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:17:53 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:16:39 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Argument from popularity



Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Argumentum ad populum.



This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

Argument from tradition.


If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Why haven't the Hindu gods died out? They are just like the pagan Greek Gods yet they are much older than Judaism or Christianity.

Facepalm.

Not facepalm, Hinduism has survived because the state keeps it alive because it fuels the Caste system. No one actually truly believes in Hinduism, its a vessel for the Caste system.

LOL Can I have evidence that the state keeps Hinduism alive? The caste system has been abolished by the Indian government. I have only been on this site for a few days, and I can see that you are a liar.

I am not a liar. The official system was abolished yes but Hinduism keeps it alive

http://philosophy.lander.edu...

"The view of the caste system as "static and unchanging" is disappearing. The Indian government has been working towards creating equality between castes with affirmative action, such as guaranteed seats in educational institutions, government jobs (and promotions) and even in the parliament for those of the Scheduled Untouchable castes and tribes. Scholarships have also been available to all of these groups, so that they can go on to further education more easily and this has raised their social status. Sociologists describe how the perception of the caste system as a static and textual stratification has given way to the perception of the caste system as a more processional, empirical and contextual stratification."

Yes but the religion supports the Caste system which is the only reason why its still around.

http://www.friesian.com...

It is a social organization tool not a religion based in faith and worship that's the point I was making.
tkubok
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2/16/2012 10:24:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:10:22 AM, yoda878 wrote:
well look at the story of Cain, God and Cain talked many times but Cain still killed his brother. Really do you think it would make much difference?

Do you not think that there isnt a single person out there who would change, who would become good and nice after God reveals himself to everyone, and he starts following God after this knowledge is bestowed upon him?

And well I believe that if people go in prayer they will know, with the willingness to be humbled.

Ah, right! The loophole, the part of your argument that prevents you from ever being wrong.

If i kneel down and pray, and God does not reveal himself, then i simply wasnt humble!

Then again, if you kneel, and Allah doesnt convert you to Islam, you werent humble enough either!

This is a useless argument to make, and it isnt an answer, anymore than replacing this god with the Muslim God makes it a valid argument to support Islam.

Its not going to be seeing him though, In the bible people that saw God did not say show yourself to me so I can believe.

It doesnt have to be seeing him. If God spoke to us through our minds, to every single human being tellilng us he exist, giving us knowledge that he exists, that would be the equivalent of revealing himself to everyone.

No, their was a reason, mostly to teach others for good.

What was the reason?
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:26:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:23:35 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:22:24 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:21:43 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:20:18 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:17:53 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:16:39 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Argument from popularity



Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Argumentum ad populum.



This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

Argument from tradition.


If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Why haven't the Hindu gods died out? They are just like the pagan Greek Gods yet they are much older than Judaism or Christianity.

Facepalm.

Not facepalm, Hinduism has survived because the state keeps it alive because it fuels the Caste system. No one actually truly believes in Hinduism, its a vessel for the Caste system.

LOL Can I have evidence that the state keeps Hinduism alive? The caste system has been abolished by the Indian government. I have only been on this site for a few days, and I can see that you are a liar.

I am not a liar. The official system was abolished yes but Hinduism keeps it alive

http://philosophy.lander.edu...

"The view of the caste system as "static and unchanging" is disappearing. The Indian government has been working towards creating equality between castes with affirmative action, such as guaranteed seats in educational institutions, government jobs (and promotions) and even in the parliament for those of the Scheduled Untouchable castes and tribes. Scholarships have also been available to all of these groups, so that they can go on to further education more easily and this has raised their social status. Sociologists describe how the perception of the caste system as a static and textual stratification has given way to the perception of the caste system as a more processional, empirical and contextual stratification."

Yes but the religion supports the Caste system which is the only reason why its still around.

Even if I concede to this, your argument was that nobody believes in Hinduism and that the Indian govenrnment is keeping it alive. Your argument was clearly false.
http://www.friesian.com...

It is a social organization tool not a religion based in faith and worship that's the point I was making.
The caste system is one aspect of Hinduism. It does not define the religion as a whole; there is plenty of worship in Hinduism. Look up Holi and Diwali, for example.
ConservativePolitico
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2/16/2012 10:26:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:24:42 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:10:22 AM, yoda878 wrote:
well look at the story of Cain, God and Cain talked many times but Cain still killed his brother. Really do you think it would make much difference?

Do you not think that there isnt a single person out there who would change, who would become good and nice after God reveals himself to everyone, and he starts following God after this knowledge is bestowed upon him?

And well I believe that if people go in prayer they will know, with the willingness to be humbled.

Ah, right! The loophole, the part of your argument that prevents you from ever being wrong.

If i kneel down and pray, and God does not reveal himself, then i simply wasnt humble!

Then again, if you kneel, and Allah doesnt convert you to Islam, you werent humble enough either!

This is a useless argument to make, and it isnt an answer, anymore than replacing this god with the Muslim God makes it a valid argument to support Islam.

Its not going to be seeing him though, In the bible people that saw God did not say show yourself to me so I can believe.

It doesnt have to be seeing him. If God spoke to us through our minds, to every single human being tellilng us he exist, giving us knowledge that he exists, that would be the equivalent of revealing himself to everyone.

No, their was a reason, mostly to teach others for good.

What was the reason?

Even if he did enter everyone's mind and tell them he exists there would still be billions of people who choose to ignore him. Also that would force people into a way of thinking that God doesn't support. It would be like instating a dictatorship over the Earth.
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:29:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:26:39 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:24:42 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:10:22 AM, yoda878 wrote:
well look at the story of Cain, God and Cain talked many times but Cain still killed his brother. Really do you think it would make much difference?

Do you not think that there isnt a single person out there who would change, who would become good and nice after God reveals himself to everyone, and he starts following God after this knowledge is bestowed upon him?

And well I believe that if people go in prayer they will know, with the willingness to be humbled.

Ah, right! The loophole, the part of your argument that prevents you from ever being wrong.

If i kneel down and pray, and God does not reveal himself, then i simply wasnt humble!

Then again, if you kneel, and Allah doesnt convert you to Islam, you werent humble enough either!

This is a useless argument to make, and it isnt an answer, anymore than replacing this god with the Muslim God makes it a valid argument to support Islam.

Its not going to be seeing him though, In the bible people that saw God did not say show yourself to me so I can believe.

It doesnt have to be seeing him. If God spoke to us through our minds, to every single human being tellilng us he exist, giving us knowledge that he exists, that would be the equivalent of revealing himself to everyone.

No, their was a reason, mostly to teach others for good.

What was the reason?

Even if he did enter everyone's mind and tell them he exists there would still be billions of people who choose to ignore him. Also that would force people into a way of thinking that God doesn't support. It would be like instating a dictatorship over the Earth.

You mean telling everyone to worship you or accept being subject to eternal torture is not dictatorial? Could have fooled me.
ConservativePolitico
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2/16/2012 10:32:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:29:52 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:26:39 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:24:42 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:10:22 AM, yoda878 wrote:
well look at the story of Cain, God and Cain talked many times but Cain still killed his brother. Really do you think it would make much difference?

Do you not think that there isnt a single person out there who would change, who would become good and nice after God reveals himself to everyone, and he starts following God after this knowledge is bestowed upon him?

And well I believe that if people go in prayer they will know, with the willingness to be humbled.

Ah, right! The loophole, the part of your argument that prevents you from ever being wrong.

If i kneel down and pray, and God does not reveal himself, then i simply wasnt humble!

Then again, if you kneel, and Allah doesnt convert you to Islam, you werent humble enough either!

This is a useless argument to make, and it isnt an answer, anymore than replacing this god with the Muslim God makes it a valid argument to support Islam.

Its not going to be seeing him though, In the bible people that saw God did not say show yourself to me so I can believe.

It doesnt have to be seeing him. If God spoke to us through our minds, to every single human being tellilng us he exist, giving us knowledge that he exists, that would be the equivalent of revealing himself to everyone.

No, their was a reason, mostly to teach others for good.

What was the reason?

Even if he did enter everyone's mind and tell them he exists there would still be billions of people who choose to ignore him. Also that would force people into a way of thinking that God doesn't support. It would be like instating a dictatorship over the Earth.

You mean telling everyone to worship you or accept being subject to eternal torture is not dictatorial? Could have fooled me.

You have free will, you're allowed to tell God to screw off. It's incentive based yes but incentives are not dictorial.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/16/2012 10:36:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:14:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How can you say God doesn't exist when 54.22% of the world's population believes in the same Judeo-Christian God present in Islam, Judaism and Christianity?
Right. Because all the Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all believe that anyone who believes in the Abrahamic God is going to heaven, and that All three religions are correct!

Oh wait, no, this is not the case. Muslims claim that Both the bible and christianity is wrong, and Christians utterly dismiss the Quran as a false holy book with a false prophet. The depiction of God and, more importantly, his message to his people, contradict between Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

You might as well have come to me and said that Hindus worship the same God as Christians.
Are all these people crazy? Brainwashed? Misled?

Funny youd ask that. From the christian standpoint, Muslims are misled and vice versa.

From my standpoint, being an atheist, I think they are all mistaken, yes. People can believe that something is true, and also be mistaken.

Are more than half the people on Earth wrong?

Yes, people can be wrong, even if they are a majority. Numbers has no basis on whether the belief is true or not.

I don't think so, I think there's soemthing there.

Islam is the fastest growing religion. Do you think theres something there as well?

This is why Christianity has survived for over 2000 years, why Judaism has survived 4000+ years because there's something to it.

If it was truly all lies and completely wrong the religions would have died out like the Greek gods.

Islam has survived for 1400+ years, too. Is there something there as well? If it was truly all lies and completely wrong, why is Islam still around? Why didnt it die out like the greek Gods? What about Hinduism, which is as old as Judaism itself? Is there some truth in reincarnation? Is there some truth in Brahma?

You see, your argument utterly fails when applied to another religion. They cannot all be right, but yes, they can all be wrong.

Furthermore, none of this address my initial post, the initial question I asked, of why God doesnt simply reveal his existance to everyone.
wingalbrave
Posts: 201
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2/16/2012 10:36:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/16/2012 10:32:55 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:29:52 AM, wingalbrave wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:26:39 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:24:42 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/16/2012 10:10:22 AM, yoda878 wrote:
well look at the story of Cain, God and Cain talked many times but Cain still killed his brother. Really do you think it would make much difference?

Do you not think that there isnt a single person out there who would change, who would become good and nice after God reveals himself to everyone, and he starts following God after this knowledge is bestowed upon him?

And well I believe that if people go in prayer they will know, with the willingness to be humbled.

Ah, right! The loophole, the part of your argument that prevents you from ever being wrong.

If i kneel down and pray, and God does not reveal himself, then i simply wasnt humble!

Then again, if you kneel, and Allah doesnt convert you to Islam, you werent humble enough either!

This is a useless argument to make, and it isnt an answer, anymore than replacing this god with the Muslim God makes it a valid argument to support Islam.

Its not going to be seeing him though, In the bible people that saw God did not say show yourself to me so I can believe.

It doesnt have to be seeing him. If God spoke to us through our minds, to every single human being tellilng us he exist, giving us knowledge that he exists, that would be the equivalent of revealing himself to everyone.

No, their was a reason, mostly to teach others for good.

What was the reason?

Even if he did enter everyone's mind and tell them he exists there would still be billions of people who choose to ignore him. Also that would force people into a way of thinking that God doesn't support. It would be like instating a dictatorship over the Earth.

You mean telling everyone to worship you or accept being subject to eternal torture is not dictatorial? Could have fooled me.

You have free will, you're allowed to tell God to screw off. It's incentive based yes but incentives are not dictorial.

Ok. So I guess the Soviet Union was not dictatorial because they told you to either accept Communism or die. It was an incetive, yes, but incentives are not dictatorial.