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Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not wanting to be rude here, but...

Why do you believe in cessation of existence?
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Oldfrith
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2/17/2012 11:33:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.

Because, simply, I believe the Bible is true, therefore I believe in continuation and radical dualism.
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/17/2012 11:35:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:33:22 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.

Because, simply, I believe the Bible is true, therefore I believe in continuation and radical dualism.

and is there a reason you believe the Bible is true?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/17/2012 11:38:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:35:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:33:22 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.

Because, simply, I believe the Bible is true, therefore I believe in continuation and radical dualism.

and is there a reason you believe the Bible is true?

Typology, Quantum mechanics proving dualism... Faith... Reading My bible...
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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2/18/2012 12:07:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

I'll assume you mean "cessation of consciousness". The simple answer is because everything that makes up your consciousness will cease to function when you are dead. Your eyes will not perceive light; your ears will not capture sound waves. Your electrical energy will convert to thermal energy and disperse into the atmosphere; your chemical energy will remain in your meat until devoured by other creatures.

Death is not the mystery many would have you believe.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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2/18/2012 12:19:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:38:45 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:35:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:33:22 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.

Because, simply, I believe the Bible is true, therefore I believe in continuation and radical dualism.

and is there a reason you believe the Bible is true?

Typology, Quantum mechanics proving dualism... Faith... Reading My bible...

And what quantum mechanics are showing dualism? Please don't reference Heisenburg.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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2/18/2012 4:52:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 12:19:58 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:38:45 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:35:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:33:22 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.

Because, simply, I believe the Bible is true, therefore I believe in continuation and radical dualism.

and is there a reason you believe the Bible is true?

Typology, Quantum mechanics proving dualism... Faith... Reading My bible...

And what quantum mechanics are showing dualism? Please don't reference Heisenburg.

Screw that, how the hell does typology prove ANYTHING?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/18/2012 5:46:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 4:52:36 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 2/18/2012 12:19:58 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:38:45 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:35:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:33:22 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.

Because, simply, I believe the Bible is true, therefore I believe in continuation and radical dualism.

and is there a reason you believe the Bible is true?

Typology, Quantum mechanics proving dualism... Faith... Reading My bible...

And what quantum mechanics are showing dualism? Please don't reference Heisenburg.

Screw that, how the hell does typology prove ANYTHING?

No no, screw all that, how does Reading the bible prove ANYTHING?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/18/2012 5:47:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Not wanting to be rude here, but...

Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

To answer the OP...

I believe in the cessation of existance because all the evidence points to this, and none of the evidence points to existence being in any way eternal. It has to do with evidence.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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2/18/2012 6:16:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm one a bit of an Occam's Razor binge, so apply that to life. It's pretty easy once you come to the conclusion that the continuation of life requires the explanation of so much more in our reality, including things that have been proven to be false - like the Bible.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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2/18/2012 6:40:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

Existence will go on, but it will go on without me. I am a situation, and when the situation no longer obtains, I will no longer exist.

Take, for example, three coins in a straight line. If you move one of the coins, the straight line is gone. It no longer exists. You don't think that the straight line "went to a better place." No, you think it is over, ended.

When you turn off a lamp, you don't wonder where the light went. It's not "out there somewhere." No, it stopped. It's done. It quit.

When I die, I'll go where the light goes when you turn off a lamp.

You believe the same thing about small animals, right? Death is an end? Why would you make an exception for humans?

The answer to your question is that things end. Death is an obvious end. The only reason you don't believe death is an end is your religion. People who don't share your religious beliefs will tend to assume the obvious: death is an end.
Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/18/2012 7:26:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 12:07:50 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

I'll assume you mean "cessation of consciousness". The simple answer is because everything that makes up your consciousness will cease to function when you are dead. Your eyes will not perceive light; your ears will not capture sound waves. Your electrical energy will convert to thermal energy and disperse into the atmosphere; your chemical energy will remain in your meat until devoured by other creatures.

Death is not the mystery many would have you believe.
First, cessation of existence is the belief that there is no soul, so when you die, you cease to exist, which makes no logical sense.
Death is not a mystery. When one dies, their sould goes to either heaven or hell, depending on their belief in Jesus Christ
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/18/2012 7:27:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 12:19:58 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:38:45 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:35:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:33:22 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.

Because, simply, I believe the Bible is true, therefore I believe in continuation and radical dualism.

and is there a reason you believe the Bible is true?

Typology, Quantum mechanics proving dualism... Faith... Reading My bible...

And what quantum mechanics are showing dualism? Please don't reference Heisenburg.

Heisunberg... No, but that is a valid theory. I was referring to the experiment that proved that a single photon of light could not only become a wave at the same time, but also be in two places at once.
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/18/2012 7:28:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 5:47:40 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Not wanting to be rude here, but...

Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

To answer the OP...


I believe in the cessation of existance because all the evidence points to this, and none of the evidence points to existence being in any way eternal. It has to do with evidence.

Why do atheists talk of "evidence" yet they never provide any?
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/18/2012 7:29:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 6:16:20 AM, Volkov wrote:
I'm one a bit of an Occam's Razor binge, so apply that to life. It's pretty easy once you come to the conclusion that the continuation of life requires the explanation of so much more in our reality, including things that have been proven to be false - like the Bible.

And the bible is false... How? you have BOP here BTW
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/18/2012 7:31:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 6:40:32 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

Existence will go on, but it will go on without me. I am a situation, and when the situation no longer obtains, I will no longer exist.

Take, for example, three coins in a straight line. If you move one of the coins, the straight line is gone. It no longer exists. You don't think that the straight line "went to a better place." No, you think it is over, ended.

When you turn off a lamp, you don't wonder where the light went. It's not "out there somewhere." No, it stopped. It's done. It quit.

When I die, I'll go where the light goes when you turn off a lamp.

You believe the same thing about small animals, right? Death is an end? Why would you make an exception for humans?

The answer to your question is that things end. Death is an obvious end. The only reason you don't believe death is an end is your religion. People who don't share your religious beliefs will tend to assume the obvious: death is an end.

You're examples attempt to relate physical realm into a mtephysical consciousness.

Animals go to heaven. They have souls. Nephish Kaya applies to both animals and man.
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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2/18/2012 7:32:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 7:29:25 AM, Oldfrith wrote:
And the bible is false... How? you have BOP here BTW

I have the burden of proof to prove that the Bible is false? I don't think so.

Anyways, it fails as an historical document; it fails as a scientific document; and it fails in authenticity. I mean, the fact that the modern Bible only came about in the last 1,000 years should tell you something right away. Where'd all those missing pages go?
Nougatrocity
Posts: 33
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2/18/2012 7:41:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Um, because it's the most logical conclusion given the available data?

Seems too obvious an answer, but it IS the most logical conclusion. Given the available data.
Nougatrocity
Posts: 33
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2/18/2012 8:07:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Whoops, I missed this entire second page somehow when posting that.

At 2/18/2012 7:31:06 AM, Oldfrith wrote:
Animals go to heaven. They have souls. Nephish Kaya applies to both animals and man.
So how far down the chain do you go before organisms no longer have souls? Clearly cats or pigs have souls, but gnats? Earthworms? That tree over there? An amoeba? What about our cells? Do they have souls? Do viruses have souls?
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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2/18/2012 8:44:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 6:40:32 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

Existence will go on, but it will go on without me. I am a situation, and when the situation no longer obtains, I will no longer exist.

Take, for example, three coins in a straight line. If you move one of the coins, the straight line is gone. It no longer exists. You don't think that the straight line "went to a better place." No, you think it is over, ended.

When you turn off a lamp, you don't wonder where the light went. It's not "out there somewhere." No, it stopped. It's done. It quit.

When I die, I'll go where the light goes when you turn off a lamp.

You believe the same thing about small animals, right? Death is an end? Why would you make an exception for humans?

The answer to your question is that things end. Death is an obvious end. The only reason you don't believe death is an end is your religion. People who don't share your religious beliefs will tend to assume the obvious: death is an end.

A good answer Mr Wiploc
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/18/2012 8:48:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:33:22 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:22:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
why do you believe in the continuation of existence. Why is perpetual consciousness even a desire for you? When I die, I want to cease to exist, I don't want to experience and feel and be conscious forever, that is the rawest form of psychological torture.

Because, simply, I believe the Bible is true, therefore I believe in continuation and radical dualism.

To refer to another believe still doesn't explain why you belief.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/18/2012 8:59:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 7:28:36 AM, Oldfrith wrote:
At 2/18/2012 5:47:40 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Not wanting to be rude here, but...

Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

To answer the OP...


I believe in the cessation of existance because all the evidence points to this, and none of the evidence points to existence being in any way eternal. It has to do with evidence.

Why do atheists talk of "evidence" yet they never provide any?

If you are talking about evidence specifically towards the claim that we as human beings die and our consciousness goes nowhere, the evidence is that the human brain contains everything that makes us, us, and after Death, our neurons stop firing and our brain dies, eventually turning off, much like a computer.
Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/18/2012 9:50:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 7:32:19 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/18/2012 7:29:25 AM, Oldfrith wrote:
And the bible is false... How? you have BOP here BTW

I have the burden of proof to prove that the Bible is false? I don't think so.

Anyways, it fails as an historical document; it fails as a scientific document; and it fails in authenticity. I mean, the fact that the modern Bible only came about in the last 1,000 years should tell you something right away. Where'd all those missing pages go?

How.

And what "missing pages" are you referring to? Since you mentioned something, you must tell me what they are, unless you're referencing something that doesn't exist.
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
Oldfrith
Posts: 301
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2/18/2012 9:52:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 8:07:18 AM, Nougatrocity wrote:
Whoops, I missed this entire second page somehow when posting that.

At 2/18/2012 7:31:06 AM, Oldfrith wrote:
Animals go to heaven. They have souls. Nephish Kaya applies to both animals and man.
So how far down the chain do you go before organisms no longer have souls? Clearly cats or pigs have souls, but gnats? Earthworms? That tree over there? An amoeba? What about our cells? Do they have souls? Do viruses have souls?

Nephish Kaya (and I'm likely mispelling that). Applies to animals.
Trees, no, for they are not animals
Amoeba... Honestly dunno. Have to look into that.
You know how people, when they don't know the meaning of a word, automatically think it's appropriate?
Well, How about this one:
Schloop-Schloop-Ping-a-Pang-bong
Which means:
To play a vigorous game of monopoly
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/18/2012 9:54:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 6:40:32 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

Existence will go on, but it will go on without me. I am a situation, and when the situation no longer obtains, I will no longer exist.

Take, for example, three coins in a straight line. If you move one of the coins, the straight line is gone. It no longer exists. You don't think that the straight line "went to a better place." No, you think it is over, ended.

When you turn off a lamp, you don't wonder where the light went. It's not "out there somewhere." No, it stopped. It's done. It quit.

When I die, I'll go where the light goes when you turn off a lamp.

You believe the same thing about small animals, right? Death is an end? Why would you make an exception for humans?

The answer to your question is that things end. Death is an obvious end. The only reason you don't believe death is an end is your religion. People who don't share your religious beliefs will tend to assume the obvious: death is an end.

well said
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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2/18/2012 9:57:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Not wanting to be rude here, but...

Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

Why do they have to believe that? It's just a different form of existence, the form we've all had for billions of years before being born...matter cannot be created or destroyed after all
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
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Nougatrocity
Posts: 33
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2/18/2012 10:58:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 9:52:04 AM, Oldfrith wrote:
Nephish Kaya (and I'm likely mispelling that). Applies to animals.
Trees, no, for they are not animals
Amoeba... Honestly dunno. Have to look into that.

You are misspelling it. But I don't know enough (or any) Hebrew to tell you which spelling I found is correct.

So, gnats, flies, ants, mosquitoes, cockroaches - all of these things have souls which continue to exist after death? There are more insects alive on Earth at this moment than there humans that have EVER lived. In fact, for every pound of currently living human (not every human, every POUND), there are 12 pounds of insects. How many insects does it take to make a pound? This owl I asked said three, so that's 36 insects for every pound of human flesh. Assume an average human weight of 100 lbs and that's well over two trillion insect souls WITHOUT counting all the insect souls from the past six thousand years.

Insects go to hell, right?
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/18/2012 11:06:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 8:44:41 AM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/18/2012 6:40:32 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 2/17/2012 11:18:41 PM, Oldfrith wrote:
Why do you believe in cessation of existence?

Existence will go on, but it will go on without me. I am a situation, and when the situation no longer obtains, I will no longer exist.

Take, for example, three coins in a straight line. If you move one of the coins, the straight line is gone. It no longer exists. You don't think that the straight line "went to a better place." No, you think it is over, ended.

When you turn off a lamp, you don't wonder where the light went. It's not "out there somewhere." No, it stopped. It's done. It quit.

When I die, I'll go where the light goes when you turn off a lamp.

You believe the same thing about small animals, right? Death is an end? Why would you make an exception for humans?

The answer to your question is that things end. Death is an obvious end. The only reason you don't believe death is an end is your religion. People who don't share your religious beliefs will tend to assume the obvious: death is an end.

A good answer Mr Wiploc

The problem is, light doesn't just 'end'. It changes.

Nobody should be naive enough to think that we truly understand what life is. There is enough about the material world that we can directly observe that we don't understand, and when you compound that with areas such as dark matter/dark energy, you should realize that we could only possibly know a tiny fraction of what can be known.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Nougatrocity
Posts: 33
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2/18/2012 12:12:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 11:06:59 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Nobody should be naive enough to think that we truly understand what life is. There is enough about the material world that we can directly observe that we don't understand, and when you compound that with areas such as dark matter/dark energy, you should realize that we could only possibly know a tiny fraction of what can be known.

It took a few thousand to get from "The moon, sun, and stars all revolve around to earth" to "Hey actually WE'RE going around the SUN and the stars are just...man, they are just FAR" and just a few hundred years later to "Hey let's put people and robots upon other celestial bodies, by using explosives and maths!" We're getting there. We certainly won't get there soon, but there's nothing to indicate we won't at all. We've only been considering dark matter for about eighty years, and already we made this Wikipedia page about it! http://en.wikipedia.org...

You say light doesn't 'end', it changes. The comment you object to is pretty clearly referring to the state of light being given off by a lamp, not the state of any particular photon or photons.
Let's instead consider the coins. Can you object similarly to the question of where the line goes when the middle coin is removed?