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What percentage of Atheists?

JaxsonRaine
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2/18/2012 1:20:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What percentage of Atheists here think that there is no God, vs. thinking they have no reason to believe God exists?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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2/18/2012 1:23:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Personally, I find no reason to believe a deity exists. However, for certain specifically-defined deities, I believe that they do not exist.
Physik
Posts: 686
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2/18/2012 2:35:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 1:20:14 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
What percentage of Atheists here think that there is no God, vs. thinking they have no reason to believe God exists?

They aren't mutually exclusive, i.e "There is no reason to believe god exists; therefore, god probably does not exist."
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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2/18/2012 3:05:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't believe in God, but I won't rule out the possibility of a deity.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/18/2012 3:41:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Isn't atheism the denial of God period?
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Composer
Posts: 5,858
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2/18/2012 3:42:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
ALL gods are merely a human ' concept '.

There is something obviously responsible for the Universe that we know and don't yet know, but the legitimate information available so far does not allow us to know ' what that which is responsible actually is? '.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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2/18/2012 4:51:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 3:41:17 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Isn't atheism the denial of God period?

Yes, but why does one deny a god?

Either a) One denies a God because the evidence is non-existent / evidence shows it is unprovable because of characteristics & it's better to not act as if a deity exists / there is no reason to follow the laws of anyone's interpretation over modern ideas and your own & there is no reason to suppose a deity exists when there is a lack of evidence.

or b) One denies a God because evidence is against its existence.

The first one seems more complicated, but it means:

1 - There is no reason to suppose a deity exists on rational grounds
2 - There is no reason to put faith in the deity on non-rational grounds (e.g. moral, intuitionist, emotivist, etc.)
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/18/2012 5:56:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 3:41:17 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Isn't atheism the denial of God period?

Yes, but this can come in two forms.

One, is the denial of the claim that a God exists.

The other, is the denial of the claim that a God exists, AND making another Claim that No God exists.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/18/2012 5:58:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 1:20:14 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
What percentage of Atheists here think that there is no God, vs. thinking they have no reason to believe God exists?

BTW, depending on the conversation, i could go both ways.

Much like how i would say that There are no lepricons, i would also say there are no Gods. However, this is only a general statement for me. If we were discussing this in further, then i would say that i disbelieve that a God exists, or have no reason to believe God exists.
JaxsonRaine
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2/18/2012 10:22:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:35:45 AM, Physik wrote:
At 2/18/2012 1:20:14 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
What percentage of Atheists here think that there is no God, vs. thinking they have no reason to believe God exists?

They aren't mutually exclusive, i.e "There is no reason to believe god exists; therefore, god probably does not exist."

Saying 'I know that God doesn't exist' is a statement of knowledge. Saying 'I don't have reason to think God exists' isn't a statement of knowledge, it's a statement of absence of knowledge. Either you know he doesn't exist, or you don't.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/18/2012 10:24:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 3:41:17 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Isn't atheism the denial of God period?

Some atheists 'know' that there is no God. Others just don't think there is a God, or don't think they have any reason to think there is a God, but don't explicitly state that there is no God.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/18/2012 10:25:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 3:42:54 AM, Composer wrote:
ALL gods are merely a human ' concept '.

There is something obviously responsible for the Universe that we know and don't yet know, but the legitimate information available so far does not allow us to know ' what that which is responsible actually is? '.

Well, what if God does exist, and some people actually have seen God?

Testimony can't prove something to someone else, but that doesn't mean testimony can't be true.

I could tell you that this morning I saw a bluejay, but you have no way to know if I really did or if I'm lying/delusional.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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2/18/2012 12:46:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 10:25:53 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/18/2012 3:42:54 AM, Composer wrote:
ALL gods are merely a human ' concept '.

There is something obviously responsible for the Universe that we know and don't yet know, but the legitimate information available so far does not allow us to know ' what that which is responsible actually is? '.

Well, what if God does exist, and some people actually have seen God?

Testimony can't prove something to someone else, but that doesn't mean testimony can't be true.

I could tell you that this morning I saw a bluejay, but you have no way to know if I really did or if I'm lying/delusional.

Valid point. Here's the thing though. Most athiest subscribe to a scientific state of mind. Now the default position for a scientific mind is skepticism. I guarantee you, every big scientific breakthrough throughout history has been met with some form of "uh huh. Prove it".

You very well may have had a conversation with God this morning but when it comes to something like that, an extraordinary claim, a scientific mind will not just take your word for it.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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2/18/2012 1:17:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 12:46:01 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 2/18/2012 10:25:53 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/18/2012 3:42:54 AM, Composer wrote:
ALL gods are merely a human ' concept '.

There is something obviously responsible for the Universe that we know and don't yet know, but the legitimate information available so far does not allow us to know ' what that which is responsible actually is? '.

Well, what if God does exist, and some people actually have seen God?

Testimony can't prove something to someone else, but that doesn't mean testimony can't be true.

I could tell you that this morning I saw a bluejay, but you have no way to know if I really did or if I'm lying/delusional.

Valid point. Here's the thing though. Most athiest subscribe to a scientific state of mind. Now the default position for a scientific mind is skepticism. I guarantee you, every big scientific breakthrough throughout history has been met with some form of "uh huh. Prove it".

You very well may have had a conversation with God this morning but when it comes to something like that, an extraordinary claim, a scientific mind will not just take your word for it.

When did you become an atheist? I remember seeing you a few months back and I think you were Christian then, not sure.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/18/2012 1:29:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 12:46:01 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 2/18/2012 10:25:53 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/18/2012 3:42:54 AM, Composer wrote:
ALL gods are merely a human ' concept '.

There is something obviously responsible for the Universe that we know and don't yet know, but the legitimate information available so far does not allow us to know ' what that which is responsible actually is? '.

Well, what if God does exist, and some people actually have seen God?

Testimony can't prove something to someone else, but that doesn't mean testimony can't be true.

I could tell you that this morning I saw a bluejay, but you have no way to know if I really did or if I'm lying/delusional.

Valid point. Here's the thing though. Most athiest subscribe to a scientific state of mind. Now the default position for a scientific mind is skepticism. I guarantee you, every big scientific breakthrough throughout history has been met with some form of "uh huh. Prove it".

You very well may have had a conversation with God this morning but when it comes to something like that, an extraordinary claim, a scientific mind will not just take your word for it.

That's perfectly fine, and the scientific mindset isn't 'I know this isn't true until it's proven true.', it is 'I have no reason to think this is true until I have evidence.'.

The positive statements that God doesn't exist are the ones that I can't understand. I can understand the weak-atheist mindset.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/18/2012 2:04:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm technically an atheist, but I believe in God. So do atheists, they just don't realize it most of the time.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/18/2012 2:10:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:04:30 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm technically an atheist, but I believe in God. So do atheists, they just don't realize it most of the time.

nope.

You're purposefully being unclear in what you mean...

You go to great lengths to perpetrate that crime you constantly denounce... that of being a poor communicator.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/18/2012 2:11:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:04:30 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm technically an atheist, but I believe in God. So do atheists, they just don't realize it most of the time.

That makes no sense.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/18/2012 2:22:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll just pretend you politely asked me to clarify.

In the philosophical study of god, the word "atheist" specifically refers to the absence of faith in personal storybook type gods that communicate through divine revelation. Basically, any type of god you might find in religion or mythology that people don't believe anymore.

Pantheists, panantheists, and the like are considered atheists, even though you see "theist" in the word. A deist can also be an atheist.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/18/2012 2:25:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:04:30 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm technically an atheist, but I believe in God. So do atheists, they just don't realize it most of the time.

More theist nonsense. Saying this bilge does not undermine the atheist position.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/18/2012 2:28:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:22:42 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'll just pretend you politely asked me to clarify.

In the philosophical study of god, the word "atheist" specifically refers to the absence of faith in personal storybook type gods that communicate through divine revelation. Basically, any type of god you might find in religion or mythology that people don't believe anymore.

Pantheists, panantheists, and the like are considered atheists, even though you see "theist" in the word. A deist can also be an atheist.

I think you get too caught up in semantics. I have never, nor do I know of anyone that considers Deism and Pantheism atheist beliefs. Does theist not refer to belief in God? Does atheist not refer to disbelief in God? Do Pantheism and Deism not refer to belief in a nonpersonal God? So, how are they atheist.

Atheist and Theist are mutually exclusive and contradictory. Saying something is both can't be logical.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/18/2012 2:31:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:25:09 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/18/2012 2:04:30 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm technically an atheist, but I believe in God. So do atheists, they just don't realize it most of the time.

More theist nonsense. Saying this bilge does not undermine the atheist position.

no it's not theist nonsense.. He IS an atheist.

He's just silly in his use of the word "god".
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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2/18/2012 2:40:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 1:17:16 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 2/18/2012 12:46:01 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 2/18/2012 10:25:53 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/18/2012 3:42:54 AM, Composer wrote:
ALL gods are merely a human ' concept '.

There is something obviously responsible for the Universe that we know and don't yet know, but the legitimate information available so far does not allow us to know ' what that which is responsible actually is? '.

Well, what if God does exist, and some people actually have seen God?

Testimony can't prove something to someone else, but that doesn't mean testimony can't be true.

I could tell you that this morning I saw a bluejay, but you have no way to know if I really did or if I'm lying/delusional.

Valid point. Here's the thing though. Most athiest subscribe to a scientific state of mind. Now the default position for a scientific mind is skepticism. I guarantee you, every big scientific breakthrough throughout history has been met with some form of "uh huh. Prove it".

You very well may have had a conversation with God this morning but when it comes to something like that, an extraordinary claim, a scientific mind will not just take your word for it.

When did you become an atheist? I remember seeing you a few months back and I think you were Christian then, not sure.

I'm not sure when I became an atheist but it was right before new years that I realize that I actually didn't believe.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/18/2012 2:40:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:31:56 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/18/2012 2:25:09 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/18/2012 2:04:30 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm technically an atheist, but I believe in God. So do atheists, they just don't realize it most of the time.

More theist nonsense. Saying this bilge does not undermine the atheist position.

no it's not theist nonsense.. He IS an atheist.

He's just silly in his use of the word "god".

silly not because words have intrinsic meaning.. but because they have commonly understood meanings..

These common meanings make words useful for communicating.

When you speak words and mean by them something OTHER than the common meaning you should either go to great lengths to be explicit in Exactly what you mean by them or simply NOT use that word to signal your meaning in the first place.

The choice of Not using that word to signal your meaning is, from what I can imagine, almost always the best one.. unless your plan is to invite confusion :/

Inviting a little confusion as to your meaning might sometimes be sought for if you have goals Other than clear communication.. like using the word "god" in unconventional ways if you're trying to convert people away from their religion or something maybe :/

but it's not conducive to allowing for clear comprehension of what you mean.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/18/2012 2:42:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Most conceptions of God are indeed positively incompatible with the world.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/18/2012 2:47:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:40:46 PM, MarquisX wrote:
I'm not sure when I became an atheist but it was right before new years that I realize that I actually didn't believe.

That's how I describe my turning too!

I didn't All of a Sudden not believe.. one day, after a lot of questioning for a long time, I just realized that I didn't, and hadn't for a while, really believed in it.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/18/2012 2:48:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:47:06 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/18/2012 2:40:46 PM, MarquisX wrote:
I'm not sure when I became an atheist but it was right before new years that I realize that I actually didn't believe.

That's how I describe my turning too!

I didn't All of a Sudden not believe.. one day, after a lot of questioning for a long time, I just realized that I didn't, and hadn't for a while, really believed in it.

I did an experiment. Blam.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/18/2012 2:50:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:48:28 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I did an experiment. Blam.

And what was this experiment?

Could he not just be toying with you???
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/18/2012 3:01:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There are some conceptions of god that clearly exist, and you'd be a fool to deny them.

An atheist has beef with a specific conception of God that even theologians and other religious scholars find ridiculous. If not that, they just don't like the word because it touched them in the wrong place when they were a child.

I'm attempting to get people to understand what god really means, because atheists and theists alike tend to be clueless about it. It is a word with many meanings, but when speaking of the "one", these meanings all describe it perfectly.

I'm not just talking out me arse here. I do believe I introduced the word "Ignostic" to DDO.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/18/2012 4:44:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 2:50:10 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/18/2012 2:48:28 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I did an experiment. Blam.

And what was this experiment?

Could he not just be toying with you???

I was a Mormon before I was an atheist. I prayed to God. Then, on a whim, I prayed to Satan, seeing whether I'd get the same "Feeling" --the feeling from praying to god being the supposed proof. I also tried Huitzilopochtli. Same results for all of them. Conception of God disproved. Mormon God doesn't toy with people yo.

There are some conceptions of god that clearly exist,
When God is defined as cheese I too am profoundly theist.

I do believe I introduced the word "Ignostic" to DDO.
I have a vague memory of someone using the word before you got here.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.