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Hate against Christians?

studentathletechristian8
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6/17/2009 5:21:16 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
There seems to be a bit of dislike and potential hate towards Christians on this website. I've been curious... do people on this site outright hate Christianity or the reasons that Christians provide for being Christian?
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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6/17/2009 5:28:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 5:21:16 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
There seems to be a bit of dislike and potential hate towards Christians on this website. I've been curious... do people on this site outright hate Christianity or the reasons that Christians provide for being Christian?

I don't personally hate either. I have a certain resentment for the religion itself, which I put down to the fact that I was brainwashed to believe it for about half of my life. Despite its tax-exempt status, it is no more than a cult, and I am thankful that I've escaped.

As for "reasons Christians provide for being Christian", I wouldn't even ask. That's their business. I realize this is the mantra of the non-theist who wishes to appear accepting, but I DO have many Christian friends. My father is, as far as I know, still a Christian as well, so how could I possibly hate them?

What I do hate is when anyone, Christian or just plain ignorant, attempts to play scientist by pointing out holes in existing theories. It is not helping, it is not science, it proves nothing. Leave fire-eating to the fire-eaters and science to the scientists.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
studentathletechristian8
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6/17/2009 5:31:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
"What I do hate is when anyone, Christian or just plain ignorant, attempts to play scientist by pointing out holes in existing theories. It is not helping, it is not science, it proves nothing. Leave fire-eating to the fire-eaters and science to the scientists."

Are you refering to GodSands?
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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6/17/2009 5:33:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 5:21:16 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
There seems to be a bit of dislike and potential hate towards Christians on this website.

That would require a level of care to begin with. :D

or the reasons that Christians provide for being Christian?

Hating a reason for belief is silly. Which is distinct from the validity of the argument itself.
leet4A1
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6/17/2009 5:43:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 5:31:08 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
"What I do hate is when anyone, Christian or just plain ignorant, attempts to play scientist by pointing out holes in existing theories. It is not helping, it is not science, it proves nothing. Leave fire-eating to the fire-eaters and science to the scientists."

Are you refering to GodSands?

Well, I wasn't specifically referring to him, but he certainly fits the description.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Lexicaholic
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6/17/2009 5:49:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 5:21:16 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
There seems to be a bit of dislike and potential hate towards Christians on this website. I've been curious... do people on this site outright hate Christianity or the reasons that Christians provide for being Christian?

I don't hate Christians.
I ... find it difficult to tolerate Christians who want everyone else to be Christians for reasons outside their faith, like personal comfort and a desire for group conformity.
I feel the same way about any belief system, not just religions.
http://mastersofcreationrpg.com... - My new site and long-developed project. Should be fun.
brittwaller
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6/17/2009 6:04:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I have neither met nor talked to any Christians, though I have met a lot of people that like to talk about Jesus and the Bible. I am not wholly certain that Christians exist... hate for the non-existent would be as ridiculous as love of the non-existent.
Don't I take care of them all?
Kleptin
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6/17/2009 6:55:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think that we should take a look at the demographics.

In this day and age, science and technology really do dominate, and few if any Christians are able to keep up an intense interest in science while still remaining Christian.

This is why debate.org might not be the best place to find Christians. Academia sites tend to be pretty one-sided towards secularists.

As for the hate, I think that the majority of it comes from DATCMOTO and GodSands. No one on this forum truly hates Christianity, but I'm not very fond of either DATCMOTO or GodSands because they aren't here to learn or exchange ideas. They're here because they want to shove their religion down our throats and rationalize it by calling it evangelism when it's really just obnoxious spamming.

The key factor that leads to respect on this forum is probably how articulate you are, and how well you can grasp the beliefs of others; especially beliefs you may not understand. Thus, it is easy to understand why neither GodSands nor DATCMOTO are respected on this forum.

Since they are the most prolific posters, and since they both happen to be almost nauseatingly evangelistic, it would give the illusion that debate.org is against Christians when in reality, it is just against the combined ignorance of the two.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Xer
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6/17/2009 7:45:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 6:55:37 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I think that we should take a look at the demographics.

In this day and age, science and technology really do dominate, and few if any Christians are able to keep up an intense interest in science while still remaining Christian.

This is why debate.org might not be the best place to find Christians. Academia sites tend to be pretty one-sided towards secularists.

As for the hate, I think that the majority of it comes from DATCMOTO and GodSands. No one on this forum truly hates Christianity, but I'm not very fond of either DATCMOTO or GodSands because they aren't here to learn or exchange ideas. They're here because they want to shove their religion down our throats and rationalize it by calling it evangelism when it's really just obnoxious spamming.

The key factor that leads to respect on this forum is probably how articulate you are, and how well you can grasp the beliefs of others; especially beliefs you may not understand. Thus, it is easy to understand why neither GodSands nor DATCMOTO are respected on this forum.

Since they are the most prolific posters, and since they both happen to be almost nauseatingly evangelistic, it would give the illusion that debate.org is against Christians when in reality, it is just against the combined ignorance of the two.

Well said.

Whenever I am debating my Catholic friends on Catholicism and the beliefs, and they start losing... they suddenly turn it around on me by saying something like "I'll believe what I wanna believe" or "Don't tell me what to think."

Basically, if you're going to debate or argue... use logic, not faith. Because faith is not a valid argument.
studentathletechristian8
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6/17/2009 8:02:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 7:45:06 PM, Nags wrote:
At 6/17/2009 6:55:37 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I think that we should take a look at the demographics.

In this day and age, science and technology really do dominate, and few if any Christians are able to keep up an intense interest in science while still remaining Christian.

This is why debate.org might not be the best place to find Christians. Academia sites tend to be pretty one-sided towards secularists.

As for the hate, I think that the majority of it comes from DATCMOTO and GodSands. No one on this forum truly hates Christianity, but I'm not very fond of either DATCMOTO or GodSands because they aren't here to learn or exchange ideas. They're here because they want to shove their religion down our throats and rationalize it by calling it evangelism when it's really just obnoxious spamming.

The key factor that leads to respect on this forum is probably how articulate you are, and how well you can grasp the beliefs of others; especially beliefs you may not understand. Thus, it is easy to understand why neither GodSands nor DATCMOTO are respected on this forum.

Since they are the most prolific posters, and since they both happen to be almost nauseatingly evangelistic, it would give the illusion that debate.org is against Christians when in reality, it is just against the combined ignorance of the two.

Well said.

Whenever I am debating my Catholic friends on Catholicism and the beliefs, and they start losing... they suddenly turn it around on me by saying something like "I'll believe what I wanna believe" or "Don't tell me what to think."

Basically, if you're going to debate or argue... use logic, not faith. Because faith is not a valid argument.

Why isn't faith a valid argument? If faith is a belief, and people argue their beliefs, why is it not valid? There must be one time when it is a valid argument?
Xer
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6/17/2009 8:13:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 8:02:00 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Why isn't faith a valid argument? If faith is a belief, and people argue their beliefs, why is it not valid? There must be one time when it is a valid argument?

This is why faith is not valid:
-I say, "I believe in mystical, magical, ginger-breaded, fire-breathing unicorns. They created the world in 69 minutes because they thought it would be funny. They are my spiritual guidance and they know the difference between right and wrong. So I follow them."
---You cannot counter that because that is my faith/beliefs.

Basically, it is impossible to refute a faith-based argument. That is why faith is not a valid argument. Do you understand now?
brittwaller
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6/17/2009 8:13:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 8:02:00 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Why isn't faith a valid argument? If faith is a belief, and people argue their beliefs, why is it not valid? There must be one time when it is a valid argument?

Here's why. Let's you and I have a debate. I will use empirical evidence to support my argument, and you will use faith to support yours. Faith is belief with Very Little to no evidence to support it, and often faith is belief even in the face of unequivocally contradictory evidence.
Don't I take care of them all?
Kleptin
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6/17/2009 8:37:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 8:02:00 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Why isn't faith a valid argument? If faith is a belief, and people argue their beliefs, why is it not valid? There must be one time when it is a valid argument?

This statement itself is logically flawed.

Your thesis statement is that faith is a valid argument.

1. Faith is belief
2. People argue their beliefs

Therefore, faith is a valid argument.

Missing premise: All arguments are valid.

Unless you have that missing premise, you cannot logically string this argument.

The problem is that the missing premise is also false. Things can only be valid arguments when there is logic to support it. Thus, faith is never a valid argument. Faith is the fervor with which you hold a position, not a measure of how logically valid the argument is. Faith can lead to a valid thesis, but faith alone can never be a valid argument.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
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6/17/2009 9:07:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I don't "hate" Christians, because finding hate in someone based on their belonging to a group is silly. I don't agree with every aspect of their ideology, but there is some I do agree with too. There is mutual respect among most of us, as it should be on a debating site.

The difference here on this site is that there is a couple of "Christians" - not saying who - that make totally invalid arguments and will never, ever listen to reason. When I say reason, I don't mean evolution or atheism. I just mean that they will not find any common ground, never bother to compromise and never, ever show respect for others. One of them even shows a huge lack of respect on debates that are nowhere near the topic of Christianity or religion. All they do is post YouTube videos of tumbleweeds in these topics, and tells us that everything we think is invalid. Clearly this shows a huge lack of respect for any part of this website and the things that it should stand for. Pathetic, if you ask me.

But, that being said, most people realize that these are isolated cases and won't hold it against the greater Christian population of this site, the ones that show respect and intelligence.
LB628
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6/17/2009 9:28:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
It is not hate of Christians or Christianity itself, but of the excessive proselytizing and blind stubbornness of several more outspoken Christians on this site.
And yes, several people do dislike Christianity itself, but simply because they regard it as a method of deluding others or yourself, and avoiding problems, so the same tends to apply to any religion they encounter.
Ragnar_Rahl
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6/17/2009 10:06:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I hate lots of people and things. Christianity and some Christians among them :)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
DATCMOTO
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6/17/2009 11:15:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Garden variety persecution.. It goes with the territory.

Matthew 5:10-12 (The Message)

10"You're blessed when your commitment to God provokes persecution. The persecution drives you even deeper into God's kingdom.

11-12"Not only that—count yourselves blessed every time people put you down or throw you out or speak lies about you to discredit me. What it means is that the truth is too close for comfort and they are uncomfortable. You can be glad when that happens—give a cheer, even!—for though they don't like it, I do! And all heaven applauds. And know that you are in good company. My prophets and
witnesses have always gotten into this kind of trouble.
The Cross.. the Cross.
brittwaller
Posts: 331
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6/18/2009 1:12:29 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
lolz...
Yes you so-called Christians have it so bad, poor things.

But also yes, ignorance is generally persecuted on this site:)
Don't I take care of them all?
TheSkeptic
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6/18/2009 1:39:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I hate some Christians, but not all in particular :). I hate people who believe in things with stupid reasons - meaning I hate some atheists I came across, and some nihilists as well.

It just seems that Christians are fond at believing-things-without-good-reason :D:D:D:D:D
GeoLaureate8
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6/18/2009 2:59:56 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I don't hate Christians, but I despise the religion. I believe in God and a spiritual existence, but am vehemently opposed to Christian dogma. The suppression of women, slavery, genocide, cannibalism, stoning, intolerance, etc. And then you have the 10 commandments which render useless because only about 4 of them are truly moral, and Yahweh breaks some of the major ones countless times beyond reason. Yahweh's morality contradicts Jesus' morality.

As Thomas Paine said:

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Religions are mind prisons that keep people in ignorance, clouds judgment, defies science, and corrupts morality. Religions are used to enslave people so I give as much respect to religion as I do to a slave owner.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
brian_eggleston
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6/18/2009 3:33:36 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
The Christians think people that don't believe in their god are "fools", as illustrated by these deeply offensive adverts they have paid for:

http://shroud.typepad.com...

If someone thinks that being a Christian gives them the right to insult me they'd better expect a lot more than mere hatred in return.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
DATCMOTO
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6/18/2009 4:07:21 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/18/2009 3:33:36 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
The Christians think people that don't believe in their god are "fools", as illustrated by these deeply offensive adverts they have paid for:

http://shroud.typepad.com...

If someone thinks that being a Christian gives them the right to insult me they'd better expect a lot more than mere hatred in return.
Ooohh.. sounds scary.. doesn't that sound scary everyone?

Proverbs 29:25
The fear of man brings a snare, But whoever trusts in the LORD shall be safe.


Psalm 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;A good understanding have all those who do His commandments.His praise endures forever.
The Cross.. the Cross.
brian_eggleston
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6/18/2009 4:23:47 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
This just illustrates how divisive religion is. Some people claim that the Abrahamic faiths are forces for good, but the reality is that they are often a cause of conflict - witness the trouble between the Jews and Muslims in Israeli-occupied Palestine.
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DATCMOTO
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6/18/2009 4:26:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/18/2009 4:23:47 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
This just illustrates how divisive religion is. Some people claim that the Abrahamic faiths are forces for good, but the reality is that they are often a cause of conflict - witness the trouble between the Jews and Muslims in Israeli-occupied Palestine.

*Retreats from former bravado back to pseudo intellectualism/self-righteousness*

Matthew 12:30 (The Message)

30"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.
The Cross.. the Cross.
brian_eggleston
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6/18/2009 5:40:44 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/18/2009 4:26:40 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/18/2009 4:23:47 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
This just illustrates how divisive religion is. Some people claim that the Abrahamic faiths are forces for good, but the reality is that they are often a cause of conflict - witness the trouble between the Jews and Muslims in Israeli-occupied Palestine.

*Retreats from former bravado back to pseudo intellectualism/self-righteousness*

Matthew 12:30 (The Message)

30"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.


I accept that I may not be very clever and can be a bit pompous sometimes but at least my ideas are my own and not gleaned from a big book of fairy tales!

But, of course, Christianity has always discouraged independent thought, remember the Catholic Church put Galileo on trial for daring to suggest that the Earth was not the centre of the universe?

Have you also noticed how Christians tend to have no sense of humour? Look at some of the comments posted by the god squad on my debate entitled "Jesus was gay and John the Evangelist was his boyfriend".

http://www.debate.org...
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DATCMOTO
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6/18/2009 7:34:06 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/18/2009 5:40:44 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 6/18/2009 4:26:40 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/18/2009 4:23:47 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
This just illustrates how divisive religion is. Some people claim that the Abrahamic faiths are forces for good, but the reality is that they are often a cause of conflict - witness the trouble between the Jews and Muslims in Israeli-occupied Palestine.

*Retreats from former bravado back to pseudo intellectualism/self-righteousness*

Matthew 12:30 (The Message)

30"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.




I accept that I may not be very clever and can be a bit pompous sometimes but at least my ideas are my own and not gleaned from a big book of fairy tales!

First half of this sentence:very good!
Second half:WRONG.. your mind is influenced by a DEMON.. not your 'own ideas'.

But, of course, Christianity has always discouraged independent thought, remember the Catholic Church put Galileo on trial for daring to suggest that the Earth was not the centre of the universe?

Same tired old cliches rolled out again and again.. The Bible does not teach Geo-centrism SO.. you are only describing how temporal powers hold onto temporal power. Nothing else.

Have you also noticed how Christians tend to have no sense of humour? Look at some of the comments posted by the god squad on my debate entitled "Jesus was gay and John the Evangelist was his boyfriend".

http://www.debate.org...

And you think the title of that debate is funny?
You have to stand before Christ One day.. How funny will that be?
The ONLY reason you wanna mock Christians and Gods Word is so you can keep right on SINNING.
NO other reason.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (New King James Version)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.


From bravado to self-righteousness to mocking.. FROM ONE FOOT TO T'OTHER!
The Cross.. the Cross.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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6/18/2009 8:49:12 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/18/2009 7:34:06 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/18/2009 5:40:44 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 6/18/2009 4:26:40 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/18/2009 4:23:47 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
This just illustrates how divisive religion is. Some people claim that the Abrahamic faiths are forces for good, but the reality is that they are often a cause of conflict - witness the trouble between the Jews and Muslims in Israeli-occupied Palestine.

*Retreats from former bravado back to pseudo intellectualism/self-righteousness*

Matthew 12:30 (The Message)

30"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.




I accept that I may not be very clever and can be a bit pompous sometimes but at least my ideas are my own and not gleaned from a big book of fairy tales!

First half of this sentence:very good!
Second half:WRONG.. your mind is influenced by a DEMON.. not your 'own ideas'.

But, of course, Christianity has always discouraged independent thought, remember the Catholic Church put Galileo on trial for daring to suggest that the Earth was not the centre of the universe?

Same tired old cliches rolled out again and again.. The Bible does not teach Geo-centrism SO.. you are only describing how temporal powers hold onto temporal power. Nothing else.

Have you also noticed how Christians tend to have no sense of humour? Look at some of the comments posted by the god squad on my debate entitled "Jesus was gay and John the Evangelist was his boyfriend".

http://www.debate.org...

And you think the title of that debate is funny?
You have to stand before Christ One day.. How funny will that be?
The ONLY reason you wanna mock Christians and Gods Word is so you can keep right on SINNING.
NO other reason.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (New King James Version)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.


From bravado to self-righteousness to mocking.. FROM ONE FOOT TO T'OTHER!

Hey, an hour ago I was winning that debate by a long way and now I'm losing! That debate is 9 months old - how did that happen? Divine intervention perhaps?
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
The-Hand
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6/18/2009 10:05:47 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 5:21:16 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
There seems to be a bit of dislike and potential hate towards Christians on this website. I've been curious... do people on this site outright hate Christianity or the reasons that Christians provide for being Christian?

I, an atheist agnostic (and don't take this as what all atheist agnostics believe), believe that the Old Testament is a horrid piece of prose created by angry bronze age herders for whatever reason.

However, the New Testament and Jesus, made thousands of years later, is sort of an improvement over the vengeful desert God of the Old Testament.

I can't say that I hate Christianity because there is no one Christianity. I can say I disliked the fundamentalist, politically right, antiintellectual Ted Haggard and Jerry Falwell types of Christianity, but, at the same time, there have been abolitionists and civil rights leaders who have advanced human rights due to their interpretation of Christianity which I respect.

I cannot say I hate Christians. I hate people who cannot justify their beliefs (unless its in a debate, in which case, I LOVE them), which are theistic and nontheistic, communist and anarchstic, objectivistic and socialistic. Also, I hate morons, which may sound a bit vague, but morons are basically the loud, annoying, narcissistic starbuck obsessed freaks whose greatest exploration of philosophy is spinning a Jason Mraz CD, but I will not rant, so ill end right now.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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6/18/2009 10:34:58 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
When people accuse DDO of hatred toward Christians I like to point them to InquireTruth. He is an excellent example of our acceptance of all views so long as they are presented in an intelligible manner. As others have mentioned, DATCMOTO and GodSands post in the forums most often. Due to the way in which they present their views they get a good bit of scorn. Because they are the most visible christians I can see why many have the impression that we hate christians. However, that is not the case, as seen by our acceptance of intellectual and polite Christians (like InquireTruth).
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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6/18/2009 1:52:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/18/2009 10:34:58 AM, JBlake wrote:
When people accuse DDO of hatred toward Christians I like to point them to InquireTruth. He is an excellent example of our acceptance of all views so long as they are presented in an intelligible manner. As others have mentioned, DATCMOTO and GodSands post in the forums most often. Due to the way in which they present their views they get a good bit of scorn. Because they are the most visible christians I can see why many have the impression that we hate christians. However, that is not the case, as seen by our acceptance of intellectual and polite Christians (like InquireTruth).

"intellectual and polite" READ AS "ineffectual and contrite"

Other Christians may tolerate people going to hell BUT that is their mistake not mine.
I'm not here to look clever. (that's just a by-product)

Matthew 12:30 (The Message)

30"This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse.

The Cross.. the Cross.