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God has all attributes including evil iniquit

GreatestIam
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2/20/2012 2:39:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
God has all attributes including evil iniquity.

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ephesians 3:8-10 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

God created the attribute of iniquity and placed that capability in Satan. The above quote seems to show iniquity as capable of negating perfection yet scriptures show that perfection is never ending. If it could end, then even God's perfection would be at risk and this condition is one that God would never create.

All concepts were created for God's pleasure.

What pleasure do you think God gets from iniquity?

Regards
DL
Stephen_Hawkins
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2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
GreatestIam
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2/20/2012 4:33:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?

There is a contradiction in scriptures, yes.

If he does not hold the evil then how can he hold the good?
Scriptures have tied them together in the same tree of knowledge of good AND evil.

If he did not invent the concept of iniquity then who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL
Stephen_Hawkins
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2/20/2012 4:56:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 4:33:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?

There is a contradiction in scriptures, yes.

If he does not hold the evil then how can he hold the good?
Scriptures have tied them together in the same tree of knowledge of good AND evil.


If he did not invent the concept of iniquity then who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

(Devil's advocate) I can create a watch but I don't need to have a watch inside of me. The concept alone is all that is necessary.

Also, the idea that if there is not good, then there is evil is not justified.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
GreatestIam
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2/21/2012 7:21:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 4:56:13 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 2/20/2012 4:33:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?

There is a contradiction in scriptures, yes.

If he does not hold the evil then how can he hold the good?
Scriptures have tied them together in the same tree of knowledge of good AND evil.


If he did not invent the concept of iniquity then who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

(Devil's advocate) I can create a watch but I don't need to have a watch inside of me. The concept alone is all that is necessary.

Also, the idea that if there is not good, then there is evil is not justified.

Sure it is.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or " it's all man's fault".

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that it is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should see that what Christians see as something to blame, we should see that what we have, deserves a huge thanks where it belongs. God or nature.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be.

Regards
DL
Composer
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2/22/2012 3:58:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
My Concept founded around: - Story book god providing a Tree bearing Good & Evil!

Story book Adam alone was commanded NOT to partake (Gen. 2:17) KJV Story book

Story book Adam was never informed what, Good was, what Evil was, what death was?

Story book Adam was thus incapable of making an informed decision and was punished for being ill informed!

Why would any one threaten obtaining the Knowledge of Good, be punished by anything, let alone punished with death?

I have also pondered why Story book god didn't provide a Tree with only Good and another tree with only Evil, then informed all what they were and then permitted a Free Will choice to either 1. Partake of only Good 2. Partake of only Evil 3. Partake of None?

I can understand how choosing to make an ' informed and educated choice ' to do/practice evil is punishable, however the other two scenarios 1 & 3; punishment is grossly unjustified!

Being coersed by threats (e.g. of death) or forced to make ANY choice at all is a denial of Free-Will to Freely do none of these!
GreatestIam
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2/22/2012 11:58:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
We are on the same page friend.

Christianity would have been smart to keep the Jewish interpretation of their myth, that of an elevation of man, but instead they reversed it to man's fall.

http://www.mrrena.com...

People will pay more for a help up if they think they have fallen than if they think they are on their feet with pride.

This bishop is on the mark for why Christianity is the way it is.

Regards
DL
Zetsubou
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2/23/2012 1:11:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Again, this is an argument that reduces God into a being that follows the laws of our perceived reality, our syllogisms, our truth.

H is a being of iniquity, he must be, for he is all things. This is a feature of his impeccability. Any clause which hopes to describe God which begins with "God is" or "God can" is immediately an affirmative. If he it is not he is not all able.

Like the question of omnipotence God must be simultaneous, conflicting, contrary, things. If he is not we reduce him to gnosticism's deity.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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2/23/2012 1:47:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/21/2012 7:21:15 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 4:56:13 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 2/20/2012 4:33:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?

There is a contradiction in scriptures, yes.

If he does not hold the evil then how can he hold the good?
Scriptures have tied them together in the same tree of knowledge of good AND evil.


If he did not invent the concept of iniquity then who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

(Devil's advocate) I can create a watch but I don't need to have a watch inside of me. The concept alone is all that is necessary.

Also, the idea that if there is not good, then there is evil is not justified.

Sure it is.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or " it's all man's fault".

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.




Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that it is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should see that what Christians see as something to blame, we should see that what we have, deserves a huge thanks where it belongs. God or nature.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be.

Regards
DL

So I'd stick that argument with gravity of evil. This is something that a "theodicy" refutes (theodicy or any objection to these premises), rather than a God is evil argument.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
GreatestIam
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2/23/2012 7:59:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/23/2012 1:11:13 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Again, this is an argument that reduces God into a being that follows the laws of our perceived reality, our syllogisms, our truth.

H is a being of iniquity, he must be, for he is all things. This is a feature of his impeccability. Any clause which hopes to describe God which begins with "God is" or "God can" is immediately an affirmative. If he it is not he is not all able.

Like the question of omnipotence God must be simultaneous, conflicting, contrary, things. If he is not we reduce him to gnosticism's deity.

There are a number of different Gnostic Gods the same as there are a number of Christian sects. Gnostics are generally not literalists and do not have a deity till they touch the God within. Even then, a Gnostic will discard what the deity he finds, raise the bar to his thinking and seek further insights into what God is. To a Gnostic, at least this Gnostic, the search for God is never ending.

Regards
DL
Composer
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2/25/2012 1:25:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/23/2012 7:59:21 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/23/2012 1:11:13 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Again, this is an argument that reduces God into a being that follows the laws of our perceived reality, our syllogisms, our truth.

H is a being of iniquity, he must be, for he is all things. This is a feature of his impeccability. Any clause which hopes to describe God which begins with "God is" or "God can" is immediately an affirmative. If he it is not he is not all able.

Like the question of omnipotence God must be simultaneous, conflicting, contrary, things. If he is not we reduce him to gnosticism's deity.

There are a number of different Gnostic Gods the same as there are a number of Christian sects. Gnostics are generally not literalists and do not have a deity till they touch the God within. Even then, a Gnostic will discard what the deity he finds, raise the bar to his thinking and seek further insights into what God is. To a Gnostic, at least this Gnostic, the search for God is never ending.

Regards
DL
That goes for ALL religions actually, because at best ALL they have discovered by way of the god they are seeking; is that when allegedly found, all that is found ' at best ' is purely a function/result of some human minds that developed that concept by means of their particular (brain = electro-chemical function) resulting in that reasoning and personal conclusion!
logicrules
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2/25/2012 7:06:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 2:39:23 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God has all attributes including evil iniquity.

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ephesians 3:8-10 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

God created the attribute of iniquity and placed that capability in Satan. The above quote seems to show iniquity as capable of negating perfection yet scriptures show that perfection is never ending. If it could end, then even God's perfection would be at risk and this condition is one that God would never create.

All concepts were created for God's pleasure.

What pleasure do you think God gets from iniquity?

Regards
DL

WOW.....that i one of the most ignorant things I have ever read.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/27/2012 8:58:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/21/2012 7:21:15 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 4:56:13 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 2/20/2012 4:33:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?

There is a contradiction in scriptures, yes.

If he does not hold the evil then how can he hold the good?
Scriptures have tied them together in the same tree of knowledge of good AND evil.


If he did not invent the concept of iniquity then who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

(Devil's advocate) I can create a watch but I don't need to have a watch inside of me. The concept alone is all that is necessary.

Also, the idea that if there is not good, then there is evil is not justified.

Sure it is.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or " it's all man's fault".

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

God gave us free will. As you said, free will is the ability to choose, right?

So, to give us free will, God had to give us choice.

God gives us commandments, and he gives us temptations through satan. That's how we get our free-will, we have to have both to be able to choose righteousness.

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

1 - If God created us as incapable of sinning, we wouldn't have free-will to choose good.

2 - Who says God created our nature? Perhaps our 'nature' is some kind of eternal awareness, and it was placed into our bodies. This isn't really a topic that scripture delves into, so it's worthless to say that religion is wrong because of what it teaches in regards to this.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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2/27/2012 9:01:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/27/2012 6:42:58 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Logi

This is a surprise.

Have you never read your bible?

Regards
DL

One, I did never wrote a bible. Two, I am familiar with the Scripture. Three, your assumptions are silly and in error to any but you. See the principle of non contradiction.
yoda878
Posts: 902
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2/27/2012 9:39:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 2:39:23 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God has all attributes including evil iniquity.

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ephesians 3:8-10 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

God created the attribute of iniquity and placed that capability in Satan. The above quote seems to show iniquity as capable of negating perfection yet scriptures show that perfection is never ending. If it could end, then even God's perfection would be at risk and this condition is one that God would never create.

All concepts were created for God's pleasure.

What pleasure do you think God gets from iniquity?

Regards
DL

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 He is clearly saying here that by making good, evil shows its ugly face.... Like in Adam and eve B/4 they took of the fruit they knew no evil, Like children this is what i think. :)
also yes i do believe God created us for his pleasure he loves us, he also created good to his pleasure as well. And just how you can see at the scripture at the top by creating good evil is present. When their is free will and rules, broken rules happens to the rebellious ones. God did not make satin evil he chose that and we all have the capability to be evil. We must choose who and what we will be. Its called free will
Me
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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2/27/2012 11:56:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 4:33:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?

There is a contradiction in scriptures, yes.

If he does not hold the evil then how can he hold the good?
Scriptures have tied them together in the same tree of knowledge of good AND evil.


If he did not invent the concept of iniquity then who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

you view evil as an essence. . . or a created thing. Good and evil were not created. God is the essence of good. Everything "good" is an attribute of God. Since God defined good and evil he simply made so that all his attributes were termed "good" and all others were termed "evil." He made two spectrum and yes I'm sure that God finds pleasure in men choosing the good over the evil. Scripture says when one forsakes his evil ways and comes to God there is great heavenly celebration.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
GreatestIam
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2/29/2012 11:46:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/27/2012 8:58:01 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/21/2012 7:21:15 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 4:56:13 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 2/20/2012 4:33:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?

There is a contradiction in scriptures, yes.

If he does not hold the evil then how can he hold the good?
Scriptures have tied them together in the same tree of knowledge of good AND evil.


If he did not invent the concept of iniquity then who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

(Devil's advocate) I can create a watch but I don't need to have a watch inside of me. The concept alone is all that is necessary.

Also, the idea that if there is not good, then there is evil is not justified.

Sure it is.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or " it's all man's fault".

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

God gave us free will. As you said, free will is the ability to choose, right?

So, to give us free will, God had to give us choice.

God gives us commandments, and he gives us temptations through satan. That's how we get our free-will, we have to have both to be able to choose righteousness.

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

1 - If God created us as incapable of sinning, we wouldn't have free-will to choose good.

If God created us as capable of leaning towards the good side equally with the evil side, then his poor showing of many in hell and few in heaven would improve. One would expect that if our free will were equal then most would choose good and heaven over hell.
Right?


2 - Who says God created our nature?

The bible does. It says that God created everything visible and invisible. Like natures. All concepts in fact.

Perhaps our 'nature' is some kind of eternal awareness, and it was placed into our bodies.

Perhaps is a nice safe word. It shows no firm opinion.

This isn't really a topic that scripture delves into, so it's worthless to say that religion is wrong because of what it teaches in regards to this.

Sweet.
Scriptures do not speak of it and we should ignore what it says when it does.
You have really thought out your answer. Not.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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2/29/2012 11:52:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/27/2012 11:56:53 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
At 2/20/2012 4:33:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/20/2012 3:29:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
errm.. don't these quotes back up the idea that he is not with inquity?

There is a contradiction in scriptures, yes.

If he does not hold the evil then how can he hold the good?
Scriptures have tied them together in the same tree of knowledge of good AND evil.


If he did not invent the concept of iniquity then who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

you view evil as an essence. . . or a created thing. Good and evil were not created. God is the essence of good. Everything "good" is an attribute of God. Since God defined good and evil he simply made so that all his attributes were termed "good" and all others were termed "evil." He made two spectrum and yes I'm sure that God finds pleasure in men choosing the good over the evil. Scripture says when one forsakes his evil ways and comes to God there is great heavenly celebration.

Yet scriptures show God rewarding what is said to be evil.

Satan was given dominion here. Quite a gift for rebellion.
A & E were rewarded with a moral sense that made them as Gods. God's own words.
A great gift of a moral sense.

Would you give up yours?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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2/29/2012 12:00:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/23/2012 1:47:54 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:


So I'd stick that argument with gravity of evil. This is something that a "theodicy" refutes (theodicy or any objection to these premises), rather than a God is evil argument.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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2/29/2012 12:05:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/23/2012 1:11:13 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Again, this is an argument that reduces God into a being that follows the laws of our perceived reality, our syllogisms, our truth.

H is a being of iniquity, he must be, for he is all things. This is a feature of his impeccability. Any clause which hopes to describe God which begins with "God is" or "God can" is immediately an affirmative. If he it is not he is not all able.

Like the question of omnipotence God must be simultaneous, conflicting, contrary, things. If he is not we reduce him to gnosticism's deity.

God has been created by men with all the wish list attributes that men have invented for him.
He does need a comeback or drop down to reality instead of the fantasies of believers who are only concerned with their pathetic fears of death and afterlife.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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2/29/2012 12:12:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/27/2012 9:39:47 AM, yoda878 wrote:
At 2/20/2012 2:39:23 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God has all attributes including evil iniquity.

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ephesians 3:8-10 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

God created the attribute of iniquity and placed that capability in Satan. The above quote seems to show iniquity as capable of negating perfection yet scriptures show that perfection is never ending. If it could end, then even God's perfection would be at risk and this condition is one that God would never create.

All concepts were created for God's pleasure.

What pleasure do you think God gets from iniquity?

Regards
DL

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 He is clearly saying here that by making good, evil shows its ugly face.... Like in Adam and eve B/4 they took of the fruit they knew no evil, Like children this is what i think. :)
also yes i do believe God created us for his pleasure he loves us, he also created good to his pleasure as well. And just how you can see at the scripture at the top by creating good evil is present. When their is free will and rules, broken rules happens to the rebellious ones. God did not make satin evil he chose that and we all have the capability to be evil. We must choose who and what we will be. Its called free will

Yet many are called and few reply.

Strange that God set the rules to burn forever those you say he loves.
Let me repeat.

If God created us as capable of leaning towards the good side more than the evil side, then his poor showing of many in hell and few in heaven would improve. One would expect that if our free will were equal then most would choose good and heaven over hell.
If God created us as capable of leaning towards the good side equally with the evil side, then his poor showing of many in hell and few in heaven would improve. One would expect that if our free will were equal then most would choose good and heaven over hell.

Right?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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2/29/2012 12:19:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/25/2012 1:25:38 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/23/2012 7:59:21 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/23/2012 1:11:13 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Again, this is an argument that reduces God into a being that follows the laws of our perceived reality, our syllogisms, our truth.

H is a being of iniquity, he must be, for he is all things. This is a feature of his impeccability. Any clause which hopes to describe God which begins with "God is" or "God can" is immediately an affirmative. If he it is not he is not all able.

Like the question of omnipotence God must be simultaneous, conflicting, contrary, things. If he is not we reduce him to gnosticism's deity.

There are a number of different Gnostic Gods the same as there are a number of Christian sects. Gnostics are generally not literalists and do not have a deity till they touch the God within. Even then, a Gnostic will discard what the deity he finds, raise the bar to his thinking and seek further insights into what God is. To a Gnostic, at least this Gnostic, the search for God is never ending.

Regards
DL
That goes for ALL religions actually, because at best ALL they have discovered by way of the god they are seeking; is that when allegedly found, all that is found ' at best ' is purely a function/result of some human minds that developed that concept by means of their particular (brain = electro-chemical function) resulting in that reasoning and personal conclusion!

Reasoning does not go together with belief or faith . Faith is ignoring reason.

You are basically right but most who have supposedly found, ---- God in a book, do not raise the bar and end up honoring a genocidal God, in the case of the Abrahamic cults, who does not mind murdering his son when there was no need for it.

Regards
DL
logicrules
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2/29/2012 3:53:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/29/2012 12:19:55 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/25/2012 1:25:38 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/23/2012 7:59:21 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/23/2012 1:11:13 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Again, this is an argument that reduces God into a being that follows the laws of our perceived reality, our syllogisms, our truth.

H is a being of iniquity, he must be, for he is all things. This is a feature of his impeccability. Any clause which hopes to describe God which begins with "God is" or "God can" is immediately an affirmative. If he it is not he is not all able.

Like the question of omnipotence God must be simultaneous, conflicting, contrary, things. If he is not we reduce him to gnosticism's deity.

There are a number of different Gnostic Gods the same as there are a number of Christian sects. Gnostics are generally not literalists and do not have a deity till they touch the God within. Even then, a Gnostic will discard what the deity he finds, raise the bar to his thinking and seek further insights into what God is. To a Gnostic, at least this Gnostic, the search for God is never ending.

Regards
DL
That goes for ALL religions actually, because at best ALL they have discovered by way of the god they are seeking; is that when allegedly found, all that is found ' at best ' is purely a function/result of some human minds that developed that concept by means of their particular (brain = electro-chemical function) resulting in that reasoning and personal conclusion!

Reasoning does not go together with belief or faith . Faith is ignoring reason.

You are basically right but most who have supposedly found, ---- God in a book, do not raise the bar and end up honoring a genocidal God, in the case of the Abrahamic cults, who does not mind murdering his son when there was no need for it.

Regards
DL

Faith that ignores reason ignores God. A reasoned inference is reason. However to the extent something can not be proved it is belief. The contrary is also true, when it is proved that your theology is incorrect it is theology, faith, which must change not God's created order.
GreatestIam
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3/1/2012 8:31:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/29/2012 3:53:26 PM, logicrules wrote:

Faith that ignores reason ignores God. A reasoned inference is reason. However to the extent something can not be proved it is belief. The contrary is also true, when it is proved that your theology is incorrect it is theology, faith, which must change not God's created order.

God's created order eh. Good faith while ignoring facts there friend.

Regards
DL
logicrules
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3/1/2012 8:43:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 8:31:51 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/29/2012 3:53:26 PM, logicrules wrote:

Faith that ignores reason ignores God. A reasoned inference is reason. However to the extent something can not be proved it is belief. The contrary is also true, when it is proved that your theology is incorrect it is theology, faith, which must change not God's created order.

God's created order eh. Good faith while ignoring facts there friend.



Regards
DL

No, not complicated really....science gives us the reality of the order. As we learn more we are able to better understand. Fairly simple really, unless you prefer your agenda to God's....then it is a problem. If fact, ie the reality of what is, contradicts my faith, I adjust my faith to comport with God not the facts. eg God created evolution. Intelligent design is the epitome of a human arrogance.
GreatestIam
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3/1/2012 8:58:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 8:43:44 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/1/2012 8:31:51 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/29/2012 3:53:26 PM, logicrules wrote:

Faith that ignores reason ignores God. A reasoned inference is reason. However to the extent something can not be proved it is belief. The contrary is also true, when it is proved that your theology is incorrect it is theology, faith, which must change not God's created order.

God's created order eh. Good faith while ignoring facts there friend.



Regards
DL

No, not complicated really....science gives us the reality of the order. As we learn more we are able to better understand. Fairly simple really, unless you prefer your agenda to God's....then it is a problem. If fact, ie the reality of what is, contradicts my faith, I adjust my faith to comport with God not the facts. eg God created evolution. Intelligent design is the epitome of a human arrogance.

Yes. I prefer my agenda to God's.

It calls for free men while God's agenda calls for slaves.

Regards
DL
logicrules
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3/1/2012 9:08:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 8:58:35 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 3/1/2012 8:43:44 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/1/2012 8:31:51 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 2/29/2012 3:53:26 PM, logicrules wrote:

Faith that ignores reason ignores God. A reasoned inference is reason. However to the extent something can not be proved it is belief. The contrary is also true, when it is proved that your theology is incorrect it is theology, faith, which must change not God's created order.

God's created order eh. Good faith while ignoring facts there friend.



Regards
DL

No, not complicated really....science gives us the reality of the order. As we learn more we are able to better understand. Fairly simple really, unless you prefer your agenda to God's....then it is a problem. If fact, ie the reality of what is, contradicts my faith, I adjust my faith to comport with God not the facts. eg God created evolution. Intelligent design is the epitome of a human arrogance.

Yes. I prefer my agenda to God's.

It calls for free men while God's agenda calls for slaves.

Regards
DL

No....it makes you god.
Composer
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3/2/2012 12:45:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 9:08:32 AM, logicrules wrote:
No....it makes you god.
Incorrect! You must be a pseudo-Mormon (men become gods, LOL!)

What that non-slavery ideology does is put your god to shame and exposes its poor and narcissistic standards; as opposed to these superior (non-slavery) standards instituted by mere mortals!
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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3/2/2012 12:48:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 12:45:53 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/1/2012 9:08:32 AM, logicrules wrote:
No....it makes you god.
Incorrect! You must be a pseudo-Mormon (men become gods, LOL!)

What that non-slavery ideology does is put your god to shame and exposes its poor and narcissistic standards; as opposed to these superior (non-slavery) standards instituted by mere mortals!
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.